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GirlGAF |OT 2| Shall I Compare Thee to a Summer's Eve?

Sevarus

Member
I don't understand this post but I just want to say that vibrators are great all the time for every situation.

Maybe it's just Pride Month, but I'm having one of those "damn it's great to be a lesbian" moments. So glad I can bring toys into the bedroom without offending a man's delicate ego XD
 
I'd say yesno is correct regarding my intentions.

Additionally, the statements you seem to have a problem with are not that important to the overall argument that women and girls constantly get shit on for the things we like. While that thread is what sparked my interest in having the discussion, it's not an exemplar of the loli animu avatar statement. Bravo for you though, this pedantry over a minor aside made for comedic and illustrative effect has allowed you to never once have to seriously consider the overall point I was expressing.

So now that the straw man has been burned and set aside I guess that means you can join in the actual discussion. Fun times! :D

You seem to regard my complaint as one against there not being such a thing as men disapproving of women-targeted media. It isn't. It is a complaint about misattributing traits to groups without any basis and I find it a very bad practice to do so. I even agree that people could show a lot more acceptance for things like this, it's not meant as a straw man argument.

Since we're going on this tangent now... Honestly, I try not to judge or make assumptions or generalities about posters with the waifu avatars. I really do.

But then I see certain, ahem, threads, and I see the posts, and I see the avatars, and I can't help noticing a trend.

So yeah, I try. But is it really my fault if they make it so difficult not to? XD

I have plenty of negative associations of my own. And there are probably more people like those on GAF than on average. But seeing a trend like "people with waifu avatars sure are extra negative about the media consumption of women" is very impressive when having a thread without any such examples.

Now GAF sure is negative about media consumption might already be a statement I easier agree with.

<--------------

As far as my personal views go about that type of media. It annoys me in the sense that it is probably awfully written and I feel there is much better reading material out there, same thing I feel with plenty of media marketed towards men. It bothers me when these things are so successful when I feel there is much better stuff out there, but there really is no other excuse than me being a snob.

Fifty Shades of Grey bothers me a bit extra because besides being exceptionally badly written people somehow suddenly seem to ignore that it is complete smut and people seem to find this completely acceptable to read in the train. Reading smut in public is a development I might need to get used to a bit.
 

InfiniteNine

Rolling Girl
Anyone have any experience with Nair or other hair removal cream stuffs? Pondering on buying that for the summer since I'm too lazy to shave often.
 

Sevarus

Member
Anyone have any experience with Nair or other hair removal cream stuffs? Pondering on buying that for the summer since I'm too lazy to shave often.

I have crazy thick, dark hair and Nair didn't work for me at all, not even on my legs. And it left a weird rash of red bumps after I used it. But if you have finer hair and aren't a sensitive snowflake like me, I'd say give it a shot. Just be sure to patch test a small area first!
 

Kisaya

Member
Anyone have any experience with Nair or other hair removal cream stuffs? Pondering on buying that for the summer since I'm too lazy to shave often.

Eh, it's not worth it. I used to use it a bunch as a kid because my mom didn't want me shaving. More time consuming than shaving, smells awful, and can leave you with bumps and rashes if your skin is sensitive.
 
Anyone have any experience with Nair or other hair removal cream stuffs? Pondering on buying that for the summer since I'm too lazy to shave often.

The in-shower ones worked the best for me. The test spot is important. The little sponge they give you should be able to wipe the hair off if you are doing it correctly but you should not be burning, either. I took about a minute over that 10 minute max and my ex took about six minutes for the hair to come off easily.

Hope that helps a bit.
 
You seem to regard my complaint as one against there not being such a thing as men disapproving of women-targeted media. It isn't. It is a complaint about misattributing traits to groups without any basis and I find it a very bad practice to do so. I even agree that people could show a lot more acceptance for things like this, it's not meant as a straw man argument.



I have plenty of negative associations of my own. And there are probably more people like those on GAF than on average. But seeing a trend like "people with waifu avatars sure are extra negative about the media consumption of women" is very impressive when having a thread without any such examples.

Now GAF sure is negative about media consumption might already be a statement I easier agree with.

<--------------

As far as my personal views go about that type of media. It annoys me in the sense that it is probably awfully written and I feel there is much better reading material out there, same thing I feel with plenty of media marketed towards men. It bothers me when these things are so successful when I feel there is much better stuff out there, but there really is no other excuse than me being a snob.

Fifty Shades of Grey bothers me a bit extra because besides being exceptionally badly written people somehow suddenly seem to ignore that it is complete smut and people seem to find this completely acceptable to read in the train. Reading smut in public is a development I might need to get used to a bit.

Bolded: I dont think it is that 'impressive' a claim. Maybe not in the thread Miney linked, but it's definitely a thing.

Like Morrigan states, they are not exactly making it easy for us to hold them in high regards. Time and time again, in various threads, posters with loli/waifu avatars show a trend with regards to how they like women characters to be portrayed in the media. And their voice is loud and unabashed.

I dont think I should have to link to problematic posters and their posts, it's not particularly a thing for me to drag people's names through the mud.... but if you think there is no negative correlation between loli/waifu avatars with their views on consumption of certain stereotypes of women contents in the media then maybe you just can't quite empathize with how women feels in this matter?
 
Fifty Shades of Grey bothers me a bit extra because besides being exceptionally badly written people somehow suddenly seem to ignore that it is complete smut and people seem to find this completely acceptable to read in the train. Reading smut in public is a development I might need to get used to a bit.

Excuse me, but did you happen to arrive here in a time machine from the 16th century? You think reading a book in public is a lewd and lascivious act? Unless these women are rubbing one out on the train whilst reading, I fail to see why you should get your jimmies in a rustle. For one, the only reason your jimmies are rustled in the first place is because you're familiar with the material in question. You see the cover, you know the title, you're offended. This is your problem, not hers, not societies. Children aren't going to lose their innocence over catching a glimpse at a book cover and title that has no meaning to them.

Furthermore, what's in 50 Shades of Grey that isn't in A Song of Ice and Fire? A Song of Ice and Fire is chock full of full on rape, incest, and general debauchery. Does it rustle your jimmies to see people reading A Song of Ice and Fire on a train? You know what rustles mine? People who watch porn on their phone/tablets while on public transportation.

Edit: Nair is the devil. The smell alone is enough to make me never want to use it again. Shave or wax. Nair isn't really easier than either.

And I'm not just talking about toys in the bedroom with your s/o. I'm talking about guys being uptight about toys in general. I've known guys who felt like if I used a toy it would make him feel inadequate or that he couldn't compete with an inanimate object. Needless to say, that didn't last long. This is not an uncommon sentiment for guys to have. Like you'll be hard to please because you'll have spoiled yourself.
 
But really, I see how you could equate this:
dCfZ2hs.png

24GCU1K.jpg

aV9z8JA.jpg
Because they're totally like the same fucking thing.
 

lil

Member
Prophet Steve, I've seen you around and you seem like a pretty cool guy. I think your intentions are noble, but you might need to reevaluate whether or not it's worth it to come into the only safe space for women on GAF and argue with every single woman in here. It's just...NAGL, especially when the line in question is a small portion of the greater pattern of sexism the women here are airing their grievances about. We're deffo not perfect in here, but you have to understand that outside this thread our convos about this stuff are ALWAYS derailed/mocked and it's really frustrating to see it happen here.

I don't watch/read...any of that stuff so I can't really contribute to the discussion, but you do you ladies!!
 
Bolded: I dont think it is that 'impressive' a claim. Maybe not in the thread Miney linked, but it's definitely a thing.

Like Morrigan states, they are not exactly making it easy for us to hold them in high regards. Time and time again, in various threads, posters with loli/waifu avatars show a trend with regards to how they like women characters to be portrayed in the media. And their voice is loud and unabashed.

I dont think I should have to link to problematic posters and their posts, it's not particularly a thing for me to drag people's names through the mud.... but if you think there is no negative correlation between loli/waifu avatars with their views on consumption of certain stereotypes of women contents in the media then maybe you just can't quite empathize with how women feels in this matter?

Excuse me, but did you happen to arrive here in a time machine from the 16th century? You think reading a book in public is a lewd and lascivious act? Unless these women are rubbing one out on the train whilst reading, I fail to see why you should get your jimmies in a rustle. For one, the only reason your jimmies are rustled in the first place is because you're familiar with the material in question. You see the cover, you know the title, you're offended. This is your problem, not hers, not societies. Children aren't going to lose their innocence over catching a glimpse at a book cover and title that has no meaning to them.

Furthermore, what's in 50 Shades of Grey that isn't in A Song of Ice and Fire? A Song of Ice and Fire is chock full of full on rape, incest, and general debauchery. Does it rustle your jimmies to see people reading A Song of Ice and Fire on a train? You know what rustles mine? People who watch porn on their phone/tablets while on public transportation.

Edit: Nair is the devil. The smell alone is enough to make me never want to use it again. Shave or wax. Nair isn't really easier than either.

And I'm not just talking about toys in the bedroom with your s/o. I'm talking about guys being uptight about toys in general. I've known guys who felt like if I used a toy it would make him feel inadequate or that he couldn't compete with an inanimate object. Needless to say, that didn't last long. This is not an uncommon sentiment for guys to have. Like you'll be hard to please because you'll have spoiled yourself.

LOL I missed this gem about "reading smut in the train". This was satire, right?

But really, I see how you could equate this:

Because they're totally like the same fucking thing.

Prophet Steve, I've seen you around and you seem like a pretty cool guy. I think your intentions are noble, but you might need to reevaluate whether or not it's worth it to come into the only safe space for women on GAF and argue with every single woman in here. It's just...NAGL, especially when the line in question is a small portion of the greater pattern of sexism the women here are airing their grievances about. We're deffo not perfect in here, but you have to understand that outside this thread our convos about this stuff are ALWAYS derailed/mocked and it's really frustrating to see it happen here.

I don't watch/read...any of that stuff so I can't really contribute to the discussion, but you do you ladies!!

Okay, so the relationship between the avatars and their views is one that is viewed by more women.

I'll explain the issue I have. For many discussions related to gender issues specifically in regards to women, I'll need to rely on arguments of authority from the women on GAF. I don't have experience, many times I have no facts. The only thing I can do is hopefully doing a good job of conveying the sentiment here to men on GAF. Obviously the authority matter of you is still ignored with statements like "but you don't count for all women", but it's better than nothing.

Now the relation between loli avatars and their shaming of women that consume a specific type of media, is one that I have never seen discussed. That post was the first time I have ever read it and it linked to a thread without any examples of it. I don't just want to assume that is true or whether you are just going with it because it is funny.

If this is a sentiment shared by most of the women on GAF, since I don't have any counter-argument it is a viewpoint I have to accept, but that is an extra association formed for me with that group, and that is the responsibility you have. In this case considering the negative viewpoints of that group and the relatively few people with those avatars, there might also be a strong case of confirmation bias and there might not be many more members that think like this than is the case in general with men on GAF.

But if you feel that unwilling of this there is still a connection between the two, it is one I need to accept.

As far as my viewpoint on "smut", I'll have to go now but I'll explain my viewpoint in more detail as I think that part could be a more interesting discussion point.
 
Girl GAF: It's sure annoying when a bunch of men try to tell women why women are wrong.
Girl GAF: <circlejerking, in fairly innocuous jest>
Man: I think that y'all are wrong about <x>
Girl GAF: Oh, okay. Well, we're not talking about <x>, we're actually talking about <x> in the context of <xyz>.
Man: Well, well, well, well, <a> is wrong and you women that do <a> are wrong.
Girl GAF: .....okay? (Do you have a point or do you just want to tell us we're wrong..?)
Man:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByQBKsICEAA2Nkz.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Now see, that image would be the entire conversation and not the end of it. But it must be nice on your high throne where you can first engage in discussion and then leave the responsibility on me to disengage before implying it is pestering.

Besides that I am completely keeping context in mind. Hell I seem to be the only that does so because she refers to a thread where not anything like that is happening and what I am arguing about is not a matter of how people view the media consumption of women. I made a statement to stop bandwagoning on something I haven't seen at all happening in that thread and so it seems bad to take that as the truth. THAT was my point. Then others engage and we'll go back and forth, that's how it goes.
 

SmokyDave

Member
C'mon Steve. Girl-GAF talk smack about dudes just like the BCT talk smack about white people. You can't get involved and come out clean so just let it slide.
 
C'mon Steve. Girl-GAF talk smack about dudes just like the BCT talk smack about white people. You can't get involved and come out clean so just let it slide.

I don't really care about getting out clean, I've done it plenty of times before where I butt heads with members of Girl-GAF for the way some discuss instead of my stance on gender issues themselves.

Talking smack is one thing and something I do plenty of times, this was a viewpoint that was accepted and actually discussed further upon, but for examples I'd need to call names again.

https://rorygregg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shifting_goals2.jpg[IMG]


Hi [B]Josh[/B]! GG today :)



*edit:

For some really weird reason, this scene keeps popping up in my head. I think it's time to watch GotG again!

[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bd/63/9a/bd639ace1d3e63d89b89fb6d83a6fc0d.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

It sure would be useful to articulate what you think instead of using pictures.Because I'm very curious to hear from what point to what point I moved my goalpost. I'm pretty sure my latest post represented the same viewpoint as my first post.
 

Amalthea

Banned
Going into a community-thread to argue against the community isn't a good idea anyway since it's against the idea of a community-thread.
 

someday

Banned
Now see, that image would be the entire conversation and not the end of it. But it must be nice on your high throne where you can first engage in discussion and then leave the responsibility on me to disengage before implying it is pestering.
.
I don't think anyone in the thread actually ever wanted to have this discussion with you. You jumped into this community thread and haven't stopped so it sort of is on you to disengage and eventually leave it at some point.
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
I don't really care about getting out clean, I've done it plenty of times before where I butt heads with members of Girl-GAF for the way some discuss instead of my stance on gender issues themselves.

Talking smack is one thing and something I do plenty of times, this was a viewpoint that was accepted and actually discussed further upon, but for examples I'd need to call names again.



It sure would be useful to articulate what you think instead of using pictures.Because I'm very curious to hear from what point to what point I moved my goalpost. I'm pretty sure my latest post represented the same viewpoint as my first post.

I'm not really sure where you are going with this. :-S seems like arguing for the sake of it.
 
I...I just wanted to talk about how weird it was that men here seem to love to jump on any chance to make fun of women who enjoy smut while at the same time having serious discussions of all manner of visual porn and treating it as (mostly) normal without having to constantly defend myself from all angles and everything went bad and now everyone is fighting.

Well... In all honesty, I think we're all together and happy. Except one dude. He's not very harmoniously.




:>



PS. Loli avatars still sux

PPS. that's a tangent to the overall topic. Which may or may not include waifu avatars. Some stuff is ambiguous like that. Deal.

PPPS. I can't with the sentiment that we bag men often in this thread. Do we? I'm open minded and can be convinced if this is indeed so. (I actually am very fond of some of then boys, as I am sure a lot of us here)




PPPPS. I seriously look forward to chapter five, fiction!!!
 

SmokyDave

Member
PPPS. I can't with the sentiment that we bag men often in this thread. Do we? I'm open minded and can be convinced if this is indeed so. (I actually am very fond of some of then boys, as I am sure a lot of us here)
For what it's worth I didn't mean to imply this is some seething hotbed of misandry or anything. It's just that when you gather together under certain banners, you're naturally going to end up jibing people assembling under the opposite or contrasting banner. It's perfectly natural.
 
For what it's worth I didn't mean to imply this is some seething hotbed of misandry or anything. It's just that when you gather together under certain banners, you're naturally going to end up jibing people assembling under the opposite or contrasting banner. It's perfectly natural.

Okay thanks!!! &#10084;


Ohhhh smoky, btw, I saw your hard line stance at the GoT thread saying that you'd rather sacrifice your limbs first before you'd even consider harming your children.

LOVE. that is all.

&#128077;
Stannis fans sure seems to have been tested by that last episode! And the ones that still are on his side! Wew! ....i can't hate though, I'm super curious where Stannis arc will go from here onwards.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Can we PLEASE not post even the vaguest of spoilers in unrelated threads? This is like the third or fourth time I've seen something that might appear vague and non-spoilerish by itself but now I'm starting to piece things together and it's very annoying. :mad:
 
Can we PLEASE not post even the vaguest of spoilers in unrelated threads? This is like the third or fourth time I've seen something that might appear vague and non-spoilerish by itself but now I'm starting to piece things together and it's very annoying. :mad:

Sorry, morrigan!!!!!!

I bad &#128581;

Will not do again q.q
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
I...I just wanted to talk about how weird it was that men here seem to love to jump on any chance to make fun of women who enjoy smut while at the same time having serious discussions of all manner of visual porn and treating it as (mostly) normal without having to constantly defend myself from all angles and everything went bad and now everyone is fighting.

Don't worry about it mrs. I think we're all pretty mellow :)

I just read the comments, agreed, and wanted to moan about how often men use 'young girls' as an insult and assume that if one likes Twilight / Hunger Games / 50 Shades etc that one's brain is clearly deficient on the basis that THEY ARE FOR WIMMEN AND WIMMEN DONT KNOW ANY DIFFERENT LOL

For what it's worth I didn't mean to imply this is some seething hotbed of misandry or anything. It's just that when you gather together under certain banners, you're naturally going to end up jibing people assembling under the opposite or contrasting banner. It's perfectly natural.

Yes you did, David. Don't lie to me David!
 

Pau

Member
Only romance novels I liked were by Meg Cabot. Speaking of which, she released the first "adult" Princess Diaries book. It didn't have any explicit sex, unlike her other adult stuff. Smh.

Also, I keep having dreams about confronting my middle school bullies. Has anyone done this year's after the fact? They were all people I used to be good friends with, and I still don't quite understand the switch. Granted, some of my tormentors were adults and I think they egged their kids on to hate on the spic who dared take away their white daighters' proper place at the top of the class, but that doesn't explain all of them. ;/
 

Amalthea

Banned
Only romance novels I liked were by Meg Cabot. Speaking of which, she released the first "adult" Princess Diaries book. It didn't have any explicit sex, unlike her other adult stuff. Smh.

Also, I keep having dreams about confronting my middle school bullies. Has anyone done this year's after the fact? They were all people I used to be good friends with, and I still don't quite understand the switch. Granted, some of my tormentors were adults and I think they egged their kids on to hate on the spic who dared take away their white daighters' proper place at the top of the class, but that doesn't explain all of them. ;/
I kinda do.
(Note: I still didn't but I want to:) Mostly saying stuff like "Are you proud of what you did?" " Did it help you getting where you are now in your life? Do you enjoy your job, friends, relationships, all that your behavior made impossible for me?" "I feel sorry for your kids!", and so on.
 

Cat

Member
Anyone have any experience with Nair or other hair removal cream stuffs? Pondering on buying that for the summer since I'm too lazy to shave often.

I tried Nair first when I was a teenager before shaving. I would take shaving over Nair any day. It stings if left on too long and is just as much of a hassle.
 
lmao, hi Josh!
Hello there

I tried Nair first when I was a teenager before shaving. I would take shaving over Nair any day. It stings if left on too long and is just as much of a hassle.

Yooo fuck nair. I put that shit on my chest once and kinda forgot about it til it burned like some fire. I couldn't wear a shit for a whole week and my nipples hated me and probably still do, sorry babes
 
Also, I keep having dreams about confronting my middle school bullies. Has anyone done this year's after the fact? They were all people I used to be good friends with, and I still don't quite understand the switch. Granted, some of my tormentors were adults and I think they egged their kids on to hate on the spic who dared take away their white daighters' proper place at the top of the class, but that doesn't explain all of them. ;/

I have. I've basically repressed nearly all of my memories from middle school, but occasionally I'll have a dream where I'll lay into them either verbally or physically.
 
I was pretty rabid about Sephiroth when was younger so I can't cast stones against these current upcoming teen girl generation for having questionable tastes. We all went through some kind of questionable phases.... I think.

It's part of being young and easily impressionable, right???

:D
 

Platy

Member
Sephiroth is awesome, but pairing anybody with Cloud is a waste of a good pairing

For instance, shape shifter erotica has become a huge thing recently, and of course, in an unrelated thread, there are dudes right now making fun of it. :p

...tell me more ....
 

Leeness

Member
I was pretty rabid about Sephiroth when was younger so I can't cast stones against these current upcoming teen girl generation for having questionable tastes. We all went through some kind of questionable phases.... I think.

It's part of being young and easily impressionable, right???

:D

I wrote self-insert fanfiction when I was 14 of ~Sephiroth and I~ and obviously my self-insert was the only other person in the world who could wield a masamune because we were soul mates or something and I saved him from burning down Nibelheim I think.

:D
 
Sephiroth is awesome, but pairing anybody with Cloud is a waste of a good pairing

:O

I don't disagree!

I wrote self-insert fanfiction when I was 14 of ~Sephiroth and I~ and obviously my self-insert was the only other person in the world who could wield a masamune because we were soul mates or something and I saved him from burning down Nibelheim I think.

:D

You are the greatest person. I just laughed for ten minutes straight.

:D

Greatest. Person.

XD
 

Leeness

Member
:O

I don't disagree!



You are the greatest person. I just laughed for ten minutes straight.

:D

Greatest. Person.

XD

I'm pretty sure I went through a phase where I wrote self-insert fanfiction about Sephiroth, Kuja, and possibly Seifer? I don't remember if Seifer happened, but I know Sephiroth and Kuja definitely did.
 

lil

Member
We're having simultaneous discussions about bullying and questionable taste and now all I can think about is how I wish I was homeschooled for middle school. :p
 
Your new avatar scares me
VALHALLA
I'm pretty sure I went through a phase where I wrote self-insert fanfiction about Sephiroth, Kuja, and possibly Seifer? I don't remember if Seifer happened, but I know Sephiroth and Kuja definitely did.

:D

For me it was Sephiroth, above all. And maybe a little of Alucard from Castlevania. Then I went through a minor* phase of denying that any other FF could surpass FF7 cuz they didn't have Sephiroth and I was being petty and tiny. I think I went to discussion boards just to bash and hate on FF8 especially.

Clearly, I was the definition of class and taste.

:>

I wonder how Edward Cullen fangirls would feel in a decade or two. Haha.

* interminable
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I wrote self-insert fanfiction when I was 14 of ~Sephiroth and I~ and obviously my self-insert was the only other person in the world who could wield a masamune because we were soul mates or something and I saved him from burning down Nibelheim I think.

:D
LMAO, you're awesome. xD
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
I always feel so left out in these kind of conversations. I don't like JRPGs and FF7 never appealed to me. I did try FFX but after about 5 or 6 hours just find it irritating. Even Persona 4 Golden! I gave it 30 hours and just found it so sickly sweet and twee I wanted to strangle Teddie and bury his body somewhere under Inaba High School.
 

scotcheggz

Member
Hi ladies (and gents?) I have a new youtube channel and I kinda wanted to ask some advice from everyone here about it since women are my demographic (analytics says women 20-30, US > UK > Korea), not sure if it's okay? I won't post the channel link in case it's against the rules but basically, I am a hair stylist and I want to run a youtube channel with a couple main goals:

1. Don't hawk shitty products at every oppurtunity, becuase fuck that.
2. Give as much legit hair stylist knowledge as possible (I'm not actually sure that people want that)

Obviously being a guy I'm not the "big sister" type, so I want to focus on the fact that I'm a trained and experienced stylist instead. The whole channel is kind of trying to find it's voice since it's such a vast subject, I'm not sure what to actually focus on. In the long term, I want to actually focus on professional products and haircut tutorials aimed at other stylists, but I want to use these videos as a sort of 'legitimisation' to back up other videos which are aimed at the wider public. I guess mainly I'm wondering what sort of videos might you be interested in seeing? I'm trying to narrow down what to focus on since right now I'm doing a little of everything and there isn't any real direction, that's kind of okay, since I'm still learning about video editing too, but I wouldn't mind a little advice.

For the record, I'm not interested/deluded into thinking of youtube fame or ad revenue, I'm mainly doing it to gain confidence in an educators role as that's sort of where I see my career headed right now. By doing these videos I'm suprising myself how much junk is in my head and it's helping me to feel like I could do it and that's really my main motivation right now. As for my skillset, I'm a trained womens hair stylist, have experience in salon, fashion, editorial and catwalk work. Avant Garde is probably my love.

Cheers guys, I hope this is all okay by the mods, I don't want to seem like a naff marketer or anything, just being on GAF all this time, it was my first thought to turn too for advice.

EDIT: I'm happy to have a crack at answering anything unrelated about your hair too!
 
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