Support NeoGAF

[rickybooby87]

Yeah, the FoV can be pretty narrow for multi-enemy combat and you have to rely exclusively on the on-screen indicators a lot.




If you read the post and what OP is saying instead of just the header, he's not wrong.

I read. Twice as of your quote. The reason why I’m typically not on board with this type of combat is because it’s style over function, it’s combat on rails, and if over utilized, it weakens the thrill of the fight as the encounters go on. Don’t get me wrong, I do like the spectacle, but in moderation.

Ryse was a pretty game when it first debuted, but that’s it about all it had going for it. Nothing super memorable about it, combat included. I think you’re mostly attracted to the QTE/Sparta moves.

GOW with its skill tree allows for some interesting attack combinations that are much more more enjoyable and rewarding once you get timing and technique down.

 

[Punished Miku]

It takes effort to create threads. Thread creators are literally the lifeblood of a discussion forum. Just a thought for people.

 

[adamsapple]

I read. Twice as of your quote. The reason why I’m typically not on board with this type of combat is because it’s style over function, it’s combat on rails, and if over utilized, it weakens the thrill of the fight as the encounters go on. Don’t get me wrong, I do like the spectacle, but in moderation.

Ryse was a pretty game when it first debuted, but that’s it about all it had going for it. Nothing super memorable about it, combat included. I think you’re mostly attracted to the QTE/Sparta moves.

GOW with its skill tree allows for some interesting attack combinations that are much more more enjoyable and rewarding once you get timing and technique down.

Aside from the heavy QTE nature of the combat, the one thing OP said that I do agree with is how the camera operates. It wasn't an issue in earlier GoW games as the camera was always fixed so the developers always gave you a full view of the combat arena.

However, the cinematic push and the extremely narrow camera does make it cumbersome to have a multi-enemy fight especially if they surround you as you need to keep an eye on the red indicator where the next attack is coming from as much, or even more, than the actual combat arena itself.

 

[sainraja]

because its a dumb opinion.

GOWR combat is superior to Ryse, thats a reason why Ryse was awful and forgotten.

I don't think he said the combat is superior in Ryse. He was speaking of the position of the camera. I can understand his point of view and disagree with it at the same time — I didn't feel like it was limiting or my view was lessened in GOW.

 

[Robbinhood]

Correct me if I’m wrong OP, you love gears of war which has…the most tankiest restrictive camera that’s also third person over the shoulder.

 

[SSfox]

Ryse was a shitty forgettable game, glad GOW did on its own, and that why both gow are incredibles

 

[MasterCornholio]

You get gold for everyone of your threads?

 

[GymWolf]

OP is on a roll.

Yeah, he probably rolled a couple of joints before opening this one...

 

[Fess]

Did you even read the post, he was very specific about what feature would benefit God of War. 2018 GoW was my favorite game of last gen and I agree with OP.

Yeah, I laughed at the thread title but after watching the video and looking at the camera work it’s hard to disagree.

Elden Ring is in serious need of a Ryse camera as well, you don’t get any helping arrows there, you just die from something you never even saw.

 

[01011001]

Another spicy premise, I know. But bear with me for a second, will ya?

Obviously Ryse isn't a perfect game. Most people would say that it's not even a good game. Others would say that it's a pretty shitty game. And all of those opinions have merit. Upon my recent replay of Ryse, I frequently found myself looking at my watch, wondering how long is it going to take to finish it, which is telling how much of a dull and repetitive slog the combat can be in this game. It's already a very short game and yet it still manages to overstay its welcome with its simplistic, repetitive gameplay, over-reliance on quick time event finishing moves, and overall emphasis on style and spectacle over any actual substance.

However...

There's one thing that Ryse does about its combat system that's pretty cool.



Notice how the camera works in this game. When you're outside of combat, it assumes a very familiar position over the player's shoulder with the controls resembling the traditional third person shooter scheme that's also used in recent God of War games. However, while the camera position and control scheme remains the same almost the entire time in God of War, as soon as you enter combat in Ryse, the game actually pulls its camera back and switches to a more orbiting view of the action while the player gains the ability to direct their attacks in any which way while also having the ability to parry any incoming attacks, regardless of where they're coming from. Frankly, that's quite an elegant solution for a melee action game of this sort and I think it would solve the majority of the problems with the combat that the recent God of War games are suffering from.

Now, the obvious question is: why God of War designers decided to use such a camera in the first place? Well, according to the commentary provided in the making of videos, it seems like they wanted to prioritize immersion and staying up close and personal with the characters. And that's a fine idea on paper, but as soon as you get into the fray with several monsters at once, some of which attack you from off-screen and when it's frequently difficult to notice, even with all the attack indicators and shit, it just becomes a bit of a clusterfuck and a constant source of frustration, especially on higher difficulties.

If the camera was allowed to zoom out a little bit and give you a more comprehensive view on the battlefield as well as bigger freedom of movement, then I think the combat in this game would work much better overall. Obviously the moveset, enemy variety, and everything else should remain the same, but the only change that I would welcome concerns the camera work and movement during combat.

jesus christ, that's a spicy headline you made there... I already contemplated how I could invent something to reach through the screen to slap some sense into you...

but then it's just about the camera... and I agree. they should have done that.

also I love how an extremely low immersion, and constantly immersion breaking game like GoW:R wants to have an "immersive" camera fucking laughable explanation by the devs.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Yeah, I laughed at the thread title but after watching the video and looking at the camera work it’s hard to disagree.

Elden Ring is in serious need of a Ryse camera as well, you don’t get any helping arrows there, you just die from something you never even saw.

You can only take camera so much back before it starts looking like a top down game.

From what I am seeing in Ryse, there are no archers. That's why combat is working well. You just have to deal with melee fighters.

In Elden Ring I remember, archers were not as aplenty either. When they were there, I used to just sweep the battlefield with torrent and take them out first.

Haven't played Ragnorok, but is it not possible to take out archers first, on a priority basis? So you don't have to deal with arrow on a screen showing incoming attacks?

 

[Fess]

You can only take camera so much back before it starts looking like a top down game.

From what I am seeing in Ryse, there are no archers. That's why combat is working well. You just have to deal with melee fighters.

In Elden Ring I remember, archers were not as aplenty either. When they were there, I used to just sweep the battlefield with torrent and take them out first.

Haven't played Ragnorok, but is it not possible to take out archers first, on a priority basis? So you don't have to deal with arrow on a screen showing incoming attacks?

It’s not about archers, it’s all enemies attacking from outside screen. Since the camera is so close you’ll see that a lot, plus have a companion scream ”Look behind you!” etc.
With a zoomed out camera you have better control where all the threats are, I love top down games so I see no negative consequences. The Ascent did it beautifully by mixing in twin-stick controls, made the shooting so much better than just about any modern third person action game controlled with a stick.

 

[mrmustard]

You are on fire man. I want a "2014 The Amazing Spider-Man 2's web swinging is better than 2018 Spider-Man's" tread next.

 

[rofif]

No. Ryse was just a qte repetition. Nothing would be better with anything from Ryse. It was short and yet very boring

 

[vaibhavpisal]

It’s not about archers, it’s all enemies attacking from outside screen. Since the camera is so close you’ll see that a lot, plus have a companion scream ”Look behind you!” etc.
With a zoomed out camera you have better control where all the threats are, I love top down games so I see no negative consequences. The Ascent did it beautifully by mixing in twin-stick controls, made the shooting so much better than just about any modern third person action game controlled with a stick.

Ok, i thought you were talking about archers.

I think Elden Ring camera is about at same position as Ryse zoomed out camera. Personally never had any deaths from enemies I couldn't see.

 

[Fess]

Ok, i thought you were talking about archers.

I think Elden Ring camera is about at same position as Ryse zoomed out camera. Personally never had any deaths from enemies I couldn't see.

Heh okay maybe I just suck at it then, in my opinion Malenia and Maliketh etc was easy-peasy compared to the dreaded boss called ”The Camera”

 

[DenchDeckard]

Completely agree on the camera and the rear attacking enemies with the arrow.

I never really got to grasp how close the enemy was, how much time I have, what's the window of attack so I ended up just cancelling combos and sliding to the side or moving, rolling....and that's only if I actually saw the arrow, as like you describe, there is so many particle effects and busy animations that it is hard on many occasions to see the visual queue....

This is so obviously known by the developers, through focus testing the game due to the sheer amount of vocal queues they added from your partners.

They must have seen, had feedback about how much they were getting hit by enemies off screen due to the poor visual queue that their idea to bandaid this one major flaw was to have the constant annoying "behind you kratos" " father, to your right"
....we all know how it goes.

So yeah, I think that is the one major flaw in what is a great robust, excellent feeling combat system. It was my biggest annoyance, both the poor visual queues and constant chatter.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Heh okay maybe I just suck at it then, in my opinion Malenia and Maliketh etc was easy-peasy compared to the dreaded boss called ”The Camera”

I died a lot too. But almost all the time from an attack i perfectly saw coming.

 

[Fess]

I died a lot too. But almost all the time from an attack i perfectly saw coming.

Even on big bosses where all you sometimes see is a foot?
With a magic build it’s mostly fine since it’s all about keeping a distance, but with a melee build - Nope. Can’t tell how many times I’ve died because I’m too close and can’t see what’s going on. Elden Beast is no doubt the worst since part of the strategy is to not use lock-on, setting you up for easy deaths, I hate that boss with a passion. Fire Giant can be too much as well with the rolls.

 

[phaedrus]

It takes effort to create threads. Thread creators are literally the lifeblood of a discussion forum. Just a thought for people.

Sure Eddie.

 

[phaedrus]

Ryse was a shitty forgettable game, glad GOW did on its own, and that why both gow are incredibles

Yeah I bought it on Steam for $10, played for a few minutes and got bored of the repetitive, dead-easy qte combat ( no surprise as it was originally a Kinect game)

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Even on big bosses where all you sometimes see is a foot?
With a magic build it’s mostly fine since it’s all about keeping a distance, but with a melee build - Nope. Can’t tell how many times I’ve died because I’m too close and can’t see what’s going on. Elden Beast is no doubt the worst since part of the strategy is to not use lock-on, setting you up for easy deaths, I hate that boss with a passion. Fire Giant can be too much as well with the rolls.

For fire giant, yeah i couldn't see anything either. Mostly defeated him via dodge roll, attack, dodge roll.

For Elden Beast, he mostly kept distance so it wasn't as problematic.

Overall, yeah, Ascent like camera could've worked in those cases.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

Interesting premise. I would argue that a number of players have a relatively shallow perspective on this. It likely stems from them only playing both of the games referenced on normal or standard difficulty. Players that think GoW combat is flawless probably didn’t play on the harder difficulty settings. Shortcomings are far easier to notice when you can’t just tank everything and haphazardly blast through the game without the need to strategise or adapt to encounters.

The GoW combat system, though fantastic in its own right does have many flaws. On higher difficulties, it falls victim to pacing issues due to the drawn out encounter lengths. In fact, on the higher difficulty settings it doesn’t feel like you are the God of War at all as standard mobs can proportionally hit far harder than you can. Health drops barely restore health and difficulty spikes lead to frustration. Here is a list of issues I identified with the combat system on the second to highest difficulty setting…

• Enemy chain attacks (2 - 4 hits) when successfully parried does not interrupt chain???
• Due to size and attack range of certain enemies, combat roll doesn’t take you out of the range of attack (why no invincibility window?)
• Block stagger animation (after being struck by a heavy attack) almost always results in damage during high intensity boss fights (unfair penalisation)
• Target lock doesn’t adequately track certain fast moving enemy types; accidental target switching happens regularly I.e. reacts when attempting to orient camera
• Runic attacks not staggering enemies when triggered in time to stop damage
• Enemies using ranged attacks off camera during combat can’t be easily seen
• Enemies moving out of combo at ease; attacks having no stagger ability against certain enemy types
• No ability to block or defend when animation trapped
• Low standard attack damage, low runic damage; only way to deal substantial damage is to charge weapon (L1 + Triangle to release). Charged weapon state takes too long to build up.
• Combat roll requires 2 button presses (adds delay as it takes more time to press twice)
• Takes too long to apply elemental status on enemies (most are dead before elemental status is applied)
• Difficult to see enemy attacks at times due to camera position and enemy mobility
• Evade is poor and continuously causes you to take damage

When we look at Rise. There’s a game that should have only had a single difficulty. That difficulty was the hardest mode. Otherwise, the game is so easy that you can just mash your way through without having to learn the nuances of the combo system. Though relatively shallow, there was a little more depth and challenge to the combat system when played on the higher settings. This encouraged more skill on the part of the player and padded the game out a little more (welcome due to the games short overall length).

It may seem like I am some kind of hater or have been unnecessarily harsh on the part of Ragnarok. This is not true, I adore the GoW franchise and thoroughly enjoyed Ragnarok. Just because there are criticisms doesn’t take away from what is otherwise an excellent game. I agree with OP. There certainly are games that have avoided some of the problems present in Ragnarok that the team could try and emulate. The camera at times being too close to the action is one such issue not faced by many similar games.

 

[anthraticus]

Ryse blows. You want a cool action based gladiator game check out Shadow of Rome or Gladiator Begins.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Correct me if I’m wrong OP, you love gears of war which has…the most tankiest restrictive camera that’s also third person over the shoulder.

It's a third person cover shooter. Completely different kind of game.

Also, what's up with people having this photographic memory of me once mentioning in passing that Gears of War 2 was a great sequel, and then bringing it up every time I post a take that they don't agree with?

Honestly, I don't really care much for that series but you'd have to be blind not to see that Gears 2 was a better game than its predecessor.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

I wish I could see what others see in God of War 2018’s combat system (haven’t played Ragnarok and probably won’t).

I never got to the part where Kratos acquires the Blades of Chaos, so I only experienced combat with the Axe, but it was thoroughly unenjoyable for me. I feel like every time Kratos hits an enemy, there’s some unnecessary intentional slow-down effect to emphasize the impact of his hits. I also typically prefer melee combat with weapons/characters that feel fast and Kratos doesn’t feel fast. I also just absolutely HATE the camera in this game. I also feel like Kratos takes up 80% of my screen and he moves around like he shat himself.

Then I also remember feeling like the game had too many button combos that felt awkward to me, though maybe that’s because I didn’t like so many other aspects of the gameplay that I just didn’t care to put in the effort to memorize button combos.

And also the text size was annoyingly small and the UI is fugly and lacking any sort of personality.

 

[Slicker than your average]

The best thing about these anti GOW threads is the fact that Xbox warriors are paying actual money for the gold.
The fov does suck abit though.

 

[Hobbygaming]

All the tools are there to play the game as it was designed. And I’d strongly argue that it makes the combat more realistic.

It’s all about being aware of your surroundings and anticipating where the enemies are. You can easily move out of danger spots to get a better handle on the area by zipping to higher ground. You can turn on the spot. You can clear surrounding enemies by using your chaos blades. You can roll from enemies. And that’s just a few examples.

The combat in GOW:R is possibly the best I have ever experienced in a game of its kind and the close camera just amplifies the intensity of it.

All of this! Ragnarok's combat is goated

 

[Edgelord79]

I get why God of War’s camera is how it is. The problem for me is that it didn’t translate and also left me frustrated (much of these immersion tactics don’t really translate in games for me). I agree with the OP that the game may be improved with a better camera during combat.

 

[Freeman76]

Combat was ok but the game has issues even though i liked it a lot.

Atreus is a little prick he wound me up no end.

Too much story for me personally, wpuld have preferred less cutscenes and walking sections.

Too much swapping around between characters. Playing as Atreus was pretty boring, and he can easily wipe out a group of 10 mobs in seconds yet when you go back to Kratos/Atreus he cant even handle a single mob without needing help

Menu system was wierd to me as well, felt needlessly overdone.

Despite all that, I finished it, so it must have had enough good to outweigh the bad. Combat was never an issue for me though personally.

 

[diffusionx]

If Ryse wasn’t an Xbox exclusive it would have been forgotten long ago.

 

[Gojiira]

Nope, the camera does pull back in GoW, very noticeably when you use the Blades of Chaos.
Yesh Id prefer a less restrictive camera but it works fine, and the fact bosses as difficult as the Valkyrie Queen or the Berserkers can be mechanically quite intense is testament to how polished the combat was.
If anything GoW Ragnarok should have learnt more from GOW and brought back the huge set piece bosses from the original trilogy and the OTT gore. Thats all it was missing.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Barf.

 

[Three]

What even is this. I get that this is your opinion but go look at what the general concensus is on Ryse and its QTE combat which was designed for Kinect. Ah you mean the camera, na that was broken at times on ryse too. The only reason it works is because the gameplay makes it more about one on ones. Others hang back instead of rushing you.

I think this is a neogaf gold money laundering front at this point.

 

[Yoboman]

It's a third person cover shooter. Completely different kind of game.

Also, what's up with people having this photographic memory of me once mentioning in passing that Gears of War 2 was a great sequel, and then bringing it up every time I post a take that they don't agree with?

Honestly, I don't really care much for that series but you'd have to be blind not to see that Gears 2 was a better game than its predecessor.

Don't see how. The camera operates in the same manner as a third person shooter which is perfectly functional for that genre, where you also need to be aware of and account for flanking by the AI in areas of the screen past your FOV. If you have the capacity to deal with it in a TPS then you can deal with an action game using a similar type of camera

 

[Katajx]

Oh for sure, and your video was a good example. The camera they used makes me think of a third person shooter and I why everything felt off and not as good to me.

The combat was good. The camera not as much.

 

[scydrex]

Agree didn't like the camera in ragnarok felt to close in combat.

 

[Three]

The camera Ryse used worked for Ryse because of its limited combat. Where the camera swinging about didn't affect who you were attacking or how. It would lock on to the one on one. Only small groups would attack at a time and you would repetitively tap attack.


With the camera moving and swinging about like Ryse it becomes more frustrating aiming your attacks or your axe throws. It just wouldn't work. When you want to aim your axe what would happen? Camera takes time to zoom back in, aim, then zooms back out? That would be shit. OP hasn't thought this through.

Also I propose a thread title change

"God of War Ragnarok's camera could've been better if it was more like Ryse: Son of Rome"

The combat itself in Ryse is bad

 

[The Tourmaline Gorilla]

Third one in one week? You get paid overtime?

You are really suggesting that one of the best combat gameplay from recent times would be better if it was like a mediocre game from 2013 based on QTE's? What a genius.

Tell us you didn't read a God damned thing, without telling us you didn't read a God damned thing. Same goes for all the people who clearly didn't read a God dammed thing, who liked your post.

OP put a considerable amount of time into make that post, obviously, and it's not particularly long either. The least people can do is actually read it before replying.

 

[simpatico]

Ryse is criminally underrated. They took the Arkham combat, took out the parry prompts and found a way to make the camera both cinematic as hell and fully functional. Always wished we got a more fleshed out sequel. One of the greatest launch games of all time.

 

[hyperbertha]

Yeah, he probably rolled a couple of joints before opening this one...

No those are the ones who stated gow had the best combat system. pfftt lmao

 

[Drizzlehell]

Don't see how. The camera operates in the same manner as a third person shooter which is perfectly functional for that genre, where you also need to be aware of and account for flanking by the AI in areas of the screen past your FOV. If you have the capacity to deal with it in a TPS then you can deal with an action game using a similar type of camera

Wrong.

In Gears you have the advantage of being able to hunker down behind cover. To flank enemies. To reposition whenever you're being flanked. And finding a vantage point where your ass is covered and you can safely take pot shots at the enemy from a distance. And lastly and most importantly - it's a RANGED combat system and its entire point is to find a safe spot to take cover and blast everything from a distance. You don't get that kind of comfort in a melee focused game because you have to be right there in the thick of it, where having eyes at the back of your head is more critical for your survival.

Like, come on, this isn't that complicated. A kid could figure this out with a little bit of deductive reasoning.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

OP's next post gonna be like FPS shooter camera is too limiting. It should be zoomed out

Interesting premise. I would argue that a number of players have a relatively shallow perspective on this. It likely stems from them only playing both of the games referenced on normal or standard difficulty. Players that think GoW combat is flawless probably didn’t play on the harder difficulty settings. Shortcomings are far easier to notice when you can’t just tank everything and haphazardly blast through the game without the need to strategise or adapt to encounters.

The GoW combat system, though fantastic in its own right does have many flaws. On higher difficulties, it falls victim to pacing issues due to the drawn out encounter lengths. In fact, on the higher difficulty settings it doesn’t feel like you are the God of War at all as standard mobs can proportionally hit far harder than you can. Health drops barely restore health and difficulty spikes lead to frustration. Here is a list of issues I identified with the combat system on the second to highest difficulty setting…

• Enemy chain attacks (2 - 4 hits) when successfully parried does not interrupt chain???
• Due to size and attack range of certain enemies, combat roll doesn’t take you out of the range of attack (why no invincibility window?)
• Block stagger animation (after being struck by a heavy attack) almost always results in damage during high intensity boss fights (unfair penalisation)
• Target lock doesn’t adequately track certain fast moving enemy types; accidental target switching happens regularly I.e. reacts when attempting to orient camera
• Runic attacks not staggering enemies when triggered in time to stop damage
• Enemies using ranged attacks off camera during combat can’t be easily seen
• Enemies moving out of combo at ease; attacks having no stagger ability against certain enemy types
• No ability to block or defend when animation trapped
• Low standard attack damage, low runic damage; only way to deal substantial damage is to charge weapon (L1 + Triangle to release). Charged weapon state takes too long to build up.
• Combat roll requires 2 button presses (adds delay as it takes more time to press twice)
• Takes too long to apply elemental status on enemies (most are dead before elemental status is applied)
• Difficult to see enemy attacks at times due to camera position and enemy mobility
• Evade is poor and continuously causes you to take damage

When we look at Rise. There’s a game that should have only had a single difficulty. That difficulty was the hardest mode. Otherwise, the game is so easy that you can just mash your way through without having to learn the nuances of the combo system. Though relatively shallow, there was a little more depth and challenge to the combat system when played on the higher settings. This encouraged more skill on the part of the player and padded the game out a little more (welcome due to the games short overall length).

It may seem like I am some kind of hater or have been unnecessarily harsh on the part of Ragnarok. This is not true, I adore the GoW franchise and thoroughly enjoyed Ragnarok. Just because there are criticisms doesn’t take away from what is otherwise an excellent game. I agree with OP. There certainly are games that have avoided some of the problems present in Ragnarok that the team could try and emulate. The camera at times being too close to the action is one such issue not faced by many similar games.

I platinumed both games on GMGOW and all your complaints are really you just needing to git gud. You should start with not using target lock and turn aim assist off.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

OP's next post gonna be like FPS shooter camera is too limiting. It should be zoomed out

I platinumed both games on GMGOW and all your complaints are really you just needing to git gud. You should start with not using target lock and turn aim assist off.

Ah, so none of the points I listed are valid? I’m glad you cleared that up. You must be a better player than me. That must be it. Nothing else makes sense. I did finish the game just fine of course but it wasn’t on GMGOW so it’s on me right. The combat system was flawless and if anyone has any criticism they obviously just suck at the game. Listen to yourself.

 

[Three]

it's a RANGED combat system and its entire point is to find a safe spot to take cover and blast everything from a distance. You don't get that kind of comfort in a melee focused game because you have to be right there in the thick of it, where having eyes at the back of your head is more critical for your survival.

Like, come on, this isn't that complicated. A kid could figure this out with a little bit of deductive reasoning.

GoW is a nice blend of ranged combat and crowd control. I can throw my axe at an approaching enemies feet to make them stumble while I deal with another with the blades of chaos.

You still haven't explained how would the axe throwing mechanics work in this camera system? You would have no control on aiming. You would need to dumb down the combat to make it work.

 

[Robbinhood]

The best thing about these anti GOW threads is the fact that Xbox warriors are paying actual money for the gold.
The fov does suck abit though.

I'm sure they expense it.

 

[Drizzlehell]

GoW is a nice blend of ranged combat and crowd control. I can throw my axe at an approaching enemies feet to make them stumble while I deal with another with the blades of chaos.

Are you seriously gonna compare throwing an axe in the midst of a melee fight to firing a machine gun from behind cover?

You still haven't explained how would the axe throwing mechanics work in this camera system? You would have no control on aiming. You would need to dumb down the combat to make it work.

That's because no one asked that question but fine, whatever. This wouldn't be that difficult anyway. Just look to Ryse for another good example because that game also had ranged attack option in the form of a throwable spear. Holding down left trigger enters aim mode, right trigger throws the spear. Tap left and then quickly right trigger to throw the spear without aiming at the closest enemy in range.

It's still a third person camera so I don't see how you'd have to dumb down anything unless you have no imagination whatsoever.

 

[SmokedMeat]

OP, please keep at it. You at least bring some game discussion to the table.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Ah, so none of the points I listed are valid? I’m glad you cleared that up. You must be a better player than me. That must be it. Nothing else makes sense. I did finish the game just fine of course but it wasn’t on GMGOW so it’s on me right. The combat system was flawless and if anyone has any criticism they obviously just suck at the game. Listen to yourself.

If I can beat GMGOW and you cant, of course I am a better player than you. Like what else would it be lol?

 

[Big Baller]

OP, please keep at it. You at least bring some game discussion to the table.