Mr Hyde
Gold Member
I can show you a pic when I get home from work.
[gonintendo] Latest Switch 2 firmware update appears to be killing select third party docks
- Thread starter Topher
- Start date
Soodanim
Member
Then Nintendo should have thought about that and had a peripheral whitelist from day 1 instead of letting people buy things and deciding 6 months later to fuck it all up, wasting people's money.
Unless there's a very good reason (e.g. cases of bricked consoles or they were found to be some sort of exploit vector) this is maliciously anti-consumer.
Personally I very much doubt Nintendo are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts and using their warm protective benevolence to protect little dock making start-ups.
(The assumption of course being that this was intentional and not an unforeseen byproduct of some other change that will be addressed.)
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//DEVIL//
Member
Nintendo being slow isn't really new. Weren't they running Wii servers on windows 98 ?
Whatever doesn't matter. As I said buying cheaper not authorized parts is a risk someone takes .
It's very annoying and one would be pissed and feel he got ripped off. But it's not an usual practice for a company to protect its property/IP/whatever they own.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
For the first time in my life I bought a third party dock so I could play at my Mrs or on the road for cheap.
It's this one I'll test it later.
It's this one I'll test it later.
SiWiQU Switch 2 TV Dock - 1000Mbit Ethernet Adapter Docking Station Compatible with Nintendo Switch2 Charge and Play, Portable Switch 2 Charging Dock with 4K 2 USB Type C HDMI: Amazon.co.uk: PC & Video Games
SiWiQU Switch 2 TV Dock - 1000Mbit Ethernet Adapter Docking Station Compatible with Nintendo Switch2 Charge and Play, Portable Switch 2 Charging Dock with 4K 2 USB Type C HDMI: Amazon.co.uk: PC & Video Games
www.amazon.co.uk
TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
You shouldn't need a license to produce peripherals for any product whatsoever unless you want to wear that "officially licensed" badge.
There is no reason for this whatsoever - beyond sheer greed and anti-consumer stance.
Monitors don't need a license from any OS developer.
Controllers don't need a license from MS/Sony.
Docking stations don't need a license from laptop manufacturers (or Valve for Steam Deck, etc).
I could go on with this for all eternity, you probably get the point.
Peripheral economy is the sign of a healthy product.
A producer, such as Nintendo, would have to go out of their way to destroy compatibility on purpose.
This isn't software/games running on the platform, either. It is an external piece of hardware not influencing the Switch 2 in any way whatsoever beyond charging and sending input signals.
Now, it seems unclear to me if Nintendo just changed something about their software (normal firmware update, nothing inherently bad about this) and that just happened to have that effect on some external devices.
Or if they did this with the explicit purpose of destroying non-Nintendo-licensed peripheries' compatibility.
I can definitely see Nintendo not giving a shit if their changes break unlicensed peripherals, but I can also see Nintendo just being absolute garbage and doing it on full purpose.
Very likely, this could be resolved by the docks' producers if firmware updates can be installed. This might not be the case, I don't know if that is a regular thing in that space.
I guess the lesson is this: For Nintendo, only buy peripherals like that if there is a way to update their firmware so they can remain compatible in case Nintendo makes changes like that.
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FoxMcChief
Gold Member
digimaster7
Member
this is the equivalent of people complaining about Cyberpunk 2077 update break their mods, why should nintendo care about the compatibility of unofficial 3rd party product?
Solarstrike
Member
Easy fix. Just take out the innards of an official one and put it in the 3rd party one. All set.
kpopSuperstar
Member
This is not on purpose, Nintendo has always had tons of third party devices, the Wii was crazy with the amount of stuff you could use.
The problem now will be to get Nintendo to fix this, it's hard to get their attention.
The problem now will be to get Nintendo to fix this, it's hard to get their attention.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Personally, I will go out of my way to not give Nintendo the satisfaction of making 125 bucks selling me something that costs them less than 50 to make. I might go as far as buying 2 Switch 2's if needed.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Why would they put resources into this? They are not a very consumer friendly company.
If they gave a fuck, they would warn people. The update even confused some TVs. People reported updating and getting a black screen then needing to reset the switch to get it to connect. TVs are fucking assholes when it comes to HDMI handshakes. I often have to pull the cable out and put it back in to get mine to detect my PC's 4090. Competent testing and knowledge that a change in the HDMI operation should have told them that they needed to give people a warning about this instead of creating frustration and maybe some initial panic of a bricked system.
Moses85
Member
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
ShadowkillXNA
Member
BlackTron
Member
I was just shopping for a portable third party dock and very nearly pulled the trigger. Glad I didn't, but this sucks.
That said. Better it kills the dock than the Switch 2. Which I was pretty sure would not happen because the docks use the original charger. Now if it came with a third party charger I'm out. Even if it works for a minute I live in fear of power fluctuations or updates.
The Switch 2 dock is too gargantuan. Other day I packed my bag to go to a friends house (Mario Strikers plug here) and just put the entire Switch 2 inside the dock in my bag because I couldn't have game shit taking up the whole thing. I would take a solution from Nintendo but then if they put out a dongle or cable then everyone would ask hey, why is your dock one hundred fifty fucking dollars.
That said. Better it kills the dock than the Switch 2. Which I was pretty sure would not happen because the docks use the original charger. Now if it came with a third party charger I'm out. Even if it works for a minute I live in fear of power fluctuations or updates.
The Switch 2 dock is too gargantuan. Other day I packed my bag to go to a friends house (Mario Strikers plug here) and just put the entire Switch 2 inside the dock in my bag because I couldn't have game shit taking up the whole thing. I would take a solution from Nintendo but then if they put out a dongle or cable then everyone would ask hey, why is your dock one hundred fifty fucking dollars.
BlackTron
Member
These docks work by reverse engineering the original and figuring out the handshake, which is unique. But there are still things Nintendo knows about it that they don't. Because N wrote it and didn't have to reverse engineer it.
It's like if I tried to make a carbon copy of a web site myself. And it was fine today but then something broke after a browser update.
Sure, they could have done it on purpose, but it can't only be explained by ill intent to the degree I would insist there's no other way.
But it still fucking sucks.
Edit: Admittedly, having an update at all kills part of the console-ness, intentional or not. This is backwards trajectory.
Nobody is worried about updates breaking their Game Genie, Super Game Boy, 32x or multi-tap.
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OGM_Madness
Member
Well, sure, except when the dock offers something different. Example, I recently bought a 3rd party dock that is the size of a bubblegum box, fits in my pocket and lets me throw into a bag in case I go on a trip and want to connect my Switch to the hotel room, I can do that conveniently.
I haven't tried mines after the update, but it'll be unfortunate if it stops working because at this point in time Nintendo doesn't have an alternative.
Steve Holt
Member
I think current Nintendo literally hates everyone at this point.
hinch7
Member
Damage? USB-C and USB PD have been standard for PC's and mobile electronics for over a decade.
Its on Nintendo here for implementing their own proprietary protocols to stop sales of 'third party' USB-C cables, chargers docks which are abundant everywhere.
I guess its the price to pay when you go to a closed eco-system, you don't have a choice in the matter.
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Mozza
Member
You get a dock with the system... it's pretty portable and totally compatible. Nintendo have supported USB-C for charging, and you can use any cable you want. We can't really blame Nintendo for not making sure it's firmware is not compatible with every bit of third party tech lol.
While every Switch 2 comes with an official dock, third parties have been offering their own solutions as well. These third party docks often change form factor over what Nintendo provides, and they include unique features and abilities as well. The thing is, you never know just when those docks might run into issues, and it appears that's exactly what's happening right now.
Just last night, the Switch 2 received a firmware update. The update brought with it a litany of tweaks and adjustments, but it also seems to have caused some problems for select third party dock owners as well. According to a variety of hands-on reports and forum posts, a handful of Switch 2 third party docks have ceased to function after the firmware update.
It's not clear what exact third party docks are experiencing issues, but there are simply too many reports out there to say that the malfunctions are coincidence. It's clear Nintendo has done something in this latest firmware update to bork third party Switch 2 docks, and now the question is whether or not the companies behind these docks can get them up-and-running again.
Latest Switch 2 firmware update appears to be killing select third party docks
Docked, rocked and clockedgonintendo.com
Even the nintendo store doesn't load properly the icon or the page from my personale experience after the last update. Anyway I always considered mediocre the sony firmware or the store, but after bought the switch 2, the difference is almost embarassing, generational I would say and make me reconsider the sony work lol
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ReyBrujo
Member
Out of curiosity, Switch 2 only or Switch 1 docks too?
I don't trust portable docks, especially the small ones, they look like my cats could topple them anytime. Or having the screen completely open, again it looks like it could topple any way. However I understand some people carry them when traveling (which kind of defeats the purpose of having a handheld but what do I know).
Mozza
Member
No issues at all on mine.
hinch7
Member
That's not the point. They are intentionally locking their customers out from using a standard USB protocol. This is no different from Apple refusing to support USB-C despite when they had that dreadful lightning connector, up until the EU court ruling that made them support it. Actually worse because they're going out their way to doing it.
Besides not everyone wants to use that massive dock if you want to play on external display. Say for people who want to bring their Switch 2 to a motel or friends/family's place. You can get small adapters that aren't much bigger than a card that's far more portable than carrying around a big plastic brick. Not to mention risk damage to said dock; which is fairly pricey to replace.
For example I use my USB-PD charger to charge my laptop when I'm out because that'll lose a lot of value (should I choose to resell) if I break the original charger that comes with it. And also because its a lot less bulky.
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Mr Hyde
Gold Member
To all of you affected I highly recommend this third party dock. It's the one I have and it still works like a charm. Very affordable too and safe to use.
spookyfish
Gold Member
I'm usually a first-party accessory whore (especially where Nintendo is concerned), but yeah -- the back of the dock comes off if you sneeze near it.
Mozza
Member
It's not massive lol... And it keeps your console much safer. Yes it's a tad expensive at $100 or so, but that includes all the cables and charger. But like I said you can simply use the one that comes with the system. We seem to be inventing problems here.
Mozza
Member
That looks better than most to be honest.
lughnasadh123
Member
Waiting for the Eurogamer review to dock a few points.
hinch7
Member
Completely missing the point but whatever. Keep consuming, I guess.
Mozza
Member
I read what you posted. So you are suggesting certain USB-C cables will not charge the system?
IFireflyl
Gold Member
I hate Nintendo as a company because I think they're overhyped, extraordinarily greedy, and they have the most insufferable fanboys. However, I think you are under a misconception regarding USB-C standards. "USB-C and USB-PD have been standard for over a decade" is more or less true, but the standards explicitly allow Vendor Defined Messages and custom modes. Using these is not "breaking the standard". It's just using a part of the standard that reduces interoperability (the ability to communicate with other devices).
Nintendo is greedy for sure, and they definitely implemented this proprietary messaging in an attempt to coerce people into buying their dock versus a third-party dock, but the USB-C and USB-PD standards also give them the right to do this. I'm not saying this to give Nintendo a pass. I'm saying this because the USB-C standards are kind of crap for allowing this, meaning there is shared blame in this kerfuffle.
You cannot possibly believe that Nintendo's sole reasoning for implementing custom messaging was to "keep the console safer". At some point you have to cross that threshold from willful ignorance to corporate bootlicking, and I can guarantee if you think this then you've crossed said threshold.
This is incorrect. The dock situation is tied to Nintendo's restricted USB-C behavior (vendor-defined messages/authentication), not some special "upscaling chip" in the dock. Reporting and accessory-maker statements point to proprietary handshakes on the USB-C link. When Nintendo changes firmware, some previously working third-party docks lose compatibility. Teardowns of the official Switch 2 dock identify a Realtek RTD2175N series chip that converts DisplayPort-over-USB-C to HDMI 2.1. That's a signal-conversion/controller chip, not a GPU or an image-upscaler.
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Mozza
Member
You need to focus your energies on something more productive than hating on a console company lol.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
I do. My hate for Nintendo, Apple, Microsoft, Epic Games, and Google is not focused. It's passive.
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HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Probably related: it killed my connection to the TV through an HDMI splitter. Fuck this company
Mozza
Member
I
Very much doubt Nintendo are doing any of this on purpose, There may be another update to address this. This will not be as simple as some are making out on here.I do. My hate for Nintendo, Apple, Microsoft, Epic Games, and Google is not focused. It's passive.
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Mozza
Member
Now I do feel Nintendo did this on purpose lol...
sloppyjoe_gamer
Member
On an unrelated note.....this update for Switch 2 brought an awesome and needed change to the HDR config screen for when you use it docked. There is now a button you can press to where the system will tell you your maximum nits value your tv puts out. This is key to configuring an accurate HDR image.
Mr Hyde
Gold Member
It's a very good dock. I would prefer Nintendos own dock but they are stingy about selling it here at retailers. As far as I know they only sell it at My Nintendo in the US so far. And maybe UK. But Siwiqu more than makes up for it until I get an official dock. I've had no issues with it and I've played on it very much.
DarkShadowXI
Gold Member
That's actually a nice upgrade.
Mozza
Member
I have been trying to buy a second dock set from Nintendo since launch. I want to run the console in my home cinema, but Nintendo never ever seem to have them in stock. So I may have to go the e-bay route.
Topher
Identifies as young
Could be unintentional, sure. I don't think the fact that not all third party docks are affected proves anything though, Enough are affected to discourage people from buying third party. That is all they really needed to do