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[Platinumstorm]

So my understanding of this streams argument prior to today was that dry stream beds were the argument people pushing the dismantling of this regulation were complaining about. It was only ever a stream when it was raining. The argument they used was that the definition of a stream was something with water in it.

This obviously doesn't account for the runoff that occurs when it rains or has snow melt.. which is.. you know.. the reason we have rivers and streams, and lakes.


I'm much more surprised that the push to relax oil regulations in national parks is being floated. This is extremely toxic to every voter base imaginable, as there is widespread party-independent support for national parks, and even national lands. There is no state where there isn't support for federally managed lands. In Nevada, the most contentious state, there is only 30% support for privitization. There is 60% support for federal control of public lands.

Utah has 47% support for national lands, and only 42% for state controlled.

This likely transfers over to to the idea of relaxed drilling regulations, especially in national parks versus national lands.

 

[neorej]

Make no mistake about it, this Obama administration rule is not designed to protect streams. Instead, it was an effort to regulate the coal mining industry right out of business,

Stupid Obama and his war on coal miners!

 

[Breads]

Stupid Obama and his war on coal miners!

Didn't you know? Dumping into streams is integral to the process.

 

[Saint Gregory]

it hasn't even been two weeks.

Remember when the Republicans said their goal was to make Obama a one term president?

Well now their goal is to make the Earth only last one term

 

[Reverend Funk]

Its not coal sludge its alternative water

 

[Azure Dream]

It's amazing how much pure fucking evil was being held back by a small number of people. Really gives you a renewed appreciation of Obama and his staff.

 

[Brinbe]

Incredible. America is gonna be so great.

 

[Siegcram]

Didn't know americans yearned for the times rivers were literally on fire. Enjoy, I guess.

 

[Mechanized]

How can any self-respecting human being be a Republican?

 

[Sunster]

How can any self-respecting human being be a Republican?

I feel like many republicans wouldn't be republicans if we had more than 2 vastly different options.

 

[watershed]

Goddamnit America sucks so much.

 

[BajiBoxer]

God damn, you people who vote Republican are just so fucking stupid.

 

[TheSaddestSort]

Well the Republicans already fucked the water up in Flint Michigan and basically got off scot free ...

 

[Pandy]

It's amazing how much pure fucking evil was being held back by a small number of people. Really gives you a renewed appreciation of Obama and his staff.

I look forward to, 'but... both parties are the same,' not being a thing at the next US election.

Assuming the country survives long enough to have one. Obviously.

 

[Hale-XF11]

These guys are going to do more damage to the planet than all of mankind put together in the last 100 years.

 

[StayDead]

I don't understand why you would need/want to dump waste in a river? Surely there's 100 times better places that are not as damaging to the environment and easier to use.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

That's it; time to donate to the ACLU. And I'm not even American.

 

[darkwing]

I don't understand why you would need/want to dump waste in a river? Surely there's 100 times better places that are not as damaging to the environment and easier to use.

because rivers have running water, it carries the sludge away from their work site conveniently and for free

 

[rec0ded1]

Money at all costs or destroy the planet so the savior can return!
Probably both.

 

[bigmit3737]

What are you talking about? That article didn't say the pumped slurry directly into a stream. Precautions are taken and when they fail there are procedures for fixing the situation and cleaning it up. There are spills at chemical companies across the country.

Yes, the EPA has made plenty of great regulations that help protect us and nature, but my point is that there is a broad spectrum of where to draw the line. Balancing regulations and business is tricky, and most laws are unnecessarily complex and stuffed with extras outside of the core intent.

I highly doubt this regulation is as simple as the article makes it out to be. If it was it would only consist of a few sentences. Can any of us honestly sit here and judge the validity of this regulation without knowing everything in it?

Read about the flint water tragedy on Wikipedia and the link below.
Things like this have to be taken seriously.


http://michaelmoore.com/10FactsOnFlint/

 

[takriel]

At this point, you are an evil person if you vote for the GOP.

 

[Magwik]

At this point, you are an evil person if you vote for the GOP.

Not evil
Most are uneducated and selfish
Those running the GOP and pulling the strings are pure evil.

 

[Machina]

This is just the GOP giving the finger to everyone for giving Clinton 3 million more votes at this point.

 

[everyday math]

I know this suck, but we've gotten at least one environmental victory last night.

Chaffetz kills own public lands bill. IIRC this was also the issue that got the Trump boys to push Zinke as Interior Secretary.

I know some of Gaf has a dislike for hunters. But hunters, fishermen/woman play a large part in protecting wilderness areas along with environmentalists. These guys did good. The Bill was to sell 3.3 million acres of federal land.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

It isn't a black and white issue. Everything has shades of gray. I guarantee the law doesn't simply state what is listed in the OP. Likely hundreds of pages with plenty of extras stuffed in. None of us can pretend to know everything contained within

Everybody here is correct that nobody wants to ruin drinking water, but I believe coal companies have to treat the water to a higher standard than what the water company does. The picture above is showing storage for the water before treatment. The pond allows solids to settle out and it is a lined resovoir.

Everybody wants to be environmentally friendly within reason. Coal is much more advanced today than many realize. I work in the field of industrial automation and see the equipment used. Unless we embraced nuclear power coal is still necessary to meet our power demands. Wind turbines cost more to maintain than they produce. They wouldn't survive without government subsidy. Solar panels can't produce enough, but would be helpful to offload things like lighting.

At the end of the day we need a diverse array of energy sources. Use regulations to keep things safe, but don't artificially prop some sources up through subsidy and don't harm others through over regulation. It is tough to find the right line between environmental protections and business. If you wanted 0 environmental effect we would have to go back to hunters and gatherers.

Let the market dictate the dominant energy source while having some basic regulations to keep all sources safe. If you had to guess a number for the amount of regulations on the coal industry what would you guess? I don't know the answer, but the possibility of some being wrong is quite high.

The EPA isn't the only issue for coal, but it is part of the issue. Just keep the playing field level and allow fair competition among energy sources.

No. Sorry, but the coal industry should be wrangled in and gradually sunsetted altogether. We definitely should be transitioning away from coal for base power generation and going straight to nuclear. This decision should definitely NOT be left to the market. Government intervention is key here. Some things in life just need to be told to you because you (i.e., the general population) don't know any better. There is literally zero reason not to be transitioning to Gen 4+ reactors (passively-safe Breeder/Burner MSRs like LFTRs that utilize thorium as fuel) over the next 20 years if there is going to be a major overhaul of the country's infrastructure starting in the near future.

 

[Alanood]

America gets the government it deserves, really.

Does that include the 70 million who voted against Trump? Not to mention the rest of the world, don't forget that USA is the strongest country in the world and sticks its nose everywhere.

 

[neorej]

Does that include the 70 million who voted against Trump?

Yup, that's how a democracy works, unfortunatly.

Not to mention the rest of the world, don't forget that USA is the strongest country in the world and sticks its nose everywhere.

We didn't really get a say in the matter, which is a damn shame considering the US' position in the world. Especially considering environmental issues that transcend borders, or policies concerning the middle-east, of the the repucussions will land in the lap of the EU first and foremost.

 

[Dehnus]

Who needs water anyway?

http://time.com/4657438/congressional-republicans-environmental-regulations-coal-streams/

OMG, how evil can you get! I mean, seriously what kind of upbringing gets you to super villain like that? Ooooh waaaaiiit...

Christian stuff about the earth being given to "men" to be fucked up until Jesus comes back to fix it all. As it is all temporary yadayadayada... + Calvinist predestination = EEEBIIIIIIL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ucZsJQxbQ

 

[AGoodODST]

At least the GOP will have a comprehensive replacement for Obamacare so that when people get sick from pollution they can get the health care they need at an affordable price.

Oh wait.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Water is overrated anyway /s

 

[pashmilla]

Umm... America... why do the Repblicans act like cartoon villains?

 

[neorej]

Water is overrated anyway /s

Look, you can get water in the supermarket. I can go down to Walmart right now, and I can get clean water. It's great water. The best. This is some liberal agenda fake news makign issues out of normal regulations. Remember when Flint's water got "contaminated"? That was Obama. Liberals didn't care back then. But now a Republican is in office, they care. Sad.

 

[fabricated backlash]

You know, I wanted to do a LTTP of GTAV, and complain about the absolutely dreadful style of satire in that game. It seemed to lack any Nuance and neverseemed to earn it's punchline...


but in just 2 weeks my mind changed from it being too over the top, to it being too low key.

 

[Randam]

Yeah, fuck the environment.
How can we make business with all those regulation?
Let's just dump all our shit into nature..

 

[so1337]

Next up: GOP votes to end rule stopping people from taking away candy from children.

"Make no mistake. This Obama administration rule is not designed for children to enjoy their candy in peace. Instead, it was an effort to make the people who took candy away from children look like the bad guys!"

 

[Toxi]

Next up: GOP votes to end rule stopping people from taking away candy from children.

"Make no mistake. This Obama administration rule is not designed for children to enjoy their candy in peace. Instead, it was an effort to make the people who took candy away from children look like the bad guys!"

Pictured: A Republican

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Read about the flint water tragedy on Wikipedia and the link below.
Things like this have to be taken seriously.


http://michaelmoore.com/10FactsOnFlint/

Good Christ, that's insane. Has the governor been arrested and charged with corruption and endangering the public?

Spoiler

Of course I know the answer.

 

[water_wendi]

Nobody would purposely dump directly into a stream and intentionally ruin drinking water.

If an action will save a company money they will do it.

 

[Palette Swap]

Who needs ISIS or drug cartels when you have the fucking GOP

 

[digdug2k]

So my understanding of this streams argument prior to today was that dry stream beds were the argument people pushing the dismantling of this regulation were complaining about. It was only ever a stream when it was raining. The argument they used was that the definition of a stream was something with water in it.

This obviously doesn't account for the runoff that occurs when it rains or has snow melt.. which is.. you know.. the reason we have rivers and streams, and lakes.


I'm much more surprised that the push to relax oil regulations in national parks is being floated. This is extremely toxic to every voter base imaginable, as there is widespread party-independent support for national parks, and even national lands. There is no state where there isn't support for federally managed lands. In Nevada, the most contentious state, there is only 30% support for privitization. There is 60% support for federal control of public lands.

Utah has 47% support for national lands, and only 42% for state controlled.

This likely transfers over to to the idea of relaxed drilling regulations, especially in national parks versus national lands.

They only need 20% of the vote to win federal elections at this point. I don't think public opinion polls mean much.

 

[Hypron]

Yup, that's how a democracy works, unfortunatly.

That's how US democracy works. If it weren't locked in a 2 party system those millions of people would probably have more of a say.

 

[The Maverick]

How much have you read of the actual law? I am sure it has more than just a few sentences saying stay outside of 100 feet. You have to consider the entire document as a whole. Not saying I know the contents, but I doubt it is as simple as this article makes it appear.

Nobody would purposely dump directly into a stream and intentionally ruin drinking water.

Plus you have to consider if existing regulations already covered this factor. Could be unnecessarily redundant.

How can you ask someone if they've read the law when you don't even know its contents yourself?

Also, without regulations, companies would do whatever brings the most profit.

 

[mclem]

"Make no mistake about it, this Obama administration rule is not designed to protect streams. Instead, it was an effort to regulate the coal mining industry right out of business," said Rep. Bill Johnson, R-Ohio, who sponsored the disapproval measure on the stream protection rule.

Oh, do expand on this, Sir. Such a despicable master villain must have had a particularly heinous motive for this.

 

[DieNgamers]

WOW, US GOP!!! It's getting to a point where you don't even have to wonder anymore.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Isnt this highly illegal anyway?

Law no longer exist in Trump Reich

 

[daxy]

Cartoonishly evil pack of clowns over there.

 

[Andronicus]

Of course they did.

Tillerson confirmed

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I grew up in West Virginia. I used to play in streams that were orange.

Pretty glad I got out. Best of luck, everyone.

 

[Cronox]

It's too bad that the fresh water we're polluting now will turn out to to have been far more valuable than the coal, gas and oil being mined. But humans were never great at long term planning.

 

[Ambient80]

Nice, so WV will continue to look like garbage since the coal industry doesn't give a shit. So many beautiful landscapes destroyed in one last death rattle by a dying industry.