Support NeoGAF

[Arklite]

Because they shouldn't do that in the first place. What is the point of making an event open to a whole continent of cars, only for GT5 to consistently choose the same small group of cars for you to race against, and not adapt to what car the player chooses? That is beyond stupid, and makes no sense whatsoever.

Has to do with how they divided the events. There are separate events for Lamborghini and Ferrari. It seems they were thinking of non-super cars when they made the European Championship, so there aren't any in there. It doesn't scale because those aren't the parameters of the race, even though the name implies otherwise. It's kind of like complaining that the game doesn't scale to your Ferrari on the Sunday Drive race. It's supposed to be low level, even though a Sunday Drive could probably involve millionaires and their Zondas, that's not what the entry level races are going to show you.

Put differently, these races are an excuse for you to buy or actually use that standard Euro car that you won in an earlier race but probably forgot about and is rusting in your garage.

 

[offshore]

Your inability to stop yourself from using the easiest option to win a race is not a failing of the game.

I'm not choosing the easiest option am I; I'm choosing a car that I want to race in. I mean what, am I not allowed to do that? A 458 Italia is eligable to race, but somehow it's my fault because I don't get a competitive race? Huh?

It works in the reverse as well: what happens if I want to choose a VW Ghia Coupe? That's also an eligable car, but now I'm going to lose because it's too slow. This is also my fault as well, because I didn't adapt to the cars that GT5 has already chosen? This is just extraordinary that someone would take that position. To get a competitive race, I'm the one who has to do the work. That is a failing of the game. It's not even up for debate.

Maybe GT5 needs two options for races; one for those who can be bothered to artificially engineer a competitive races for themselves or to cheat; and another where the opponent cars are chosen based on your car selection, for those who actually want to have a competitive race without having to mess about artificially engineering it for themselves.

 

[Emwitus]

Because they shouldn't do that in the first place. What is the point of making an event open to a whole continent of cars, only for GT5 to consistently choose the same small group of cars for you to race against, and not adapt to what car the player chooses? That is beyond stupid, and makes no sense whatsoever.

Well...what's the point of the game then? What's the point of A-Spec races? What's the point of Special Event races? What's the point of the Seasonal Event races? Yes, games have bad AI, but GT5 exacerbates the problem by not even attempting to scale properly to the player's car. As it stands, 90% of GT5 is racing against AI opponents; what they should do then is allow A-Spec events to be completed online.

At least that way we'd get to progress through the game online, not race against AI, and get plenty of credits to boot. The online payout in open lobbies is still absolutely pathetic....and that's even with the 60% + 200% logon boost.

Offshore, the point of the races is to make you feel like you are actually competitively competing. And if you assume 90% of GT5 is A-spec, then buddy, your doing it wrong. Especially in this day and age of Competitive online racing. Again, that's no excuse for horribly scripted AI but again that is all subjective.
EDIT: And to add my opinion to the subject, I think A-spec should die. No kidding. Special events should be they new "thing".

 

[Massa]

I don't know what version of GT5 you're playing but the game will make it clear what performance level to expect from each event before you even choose to load it.

The option of being able to be over or underpowered is something you may not agree with, of course, but it's part of the game. It has many problems but it also gives you a pretty cool experience of being able to tweak your car and see imediate improvements (results) over the rest of the pack.

 

[AndyD]

Offshore, the point of the races is to make you feel like you are actually competitively competing. And if you assume 90% of GT5 is A-spec, then buddy, your doing it wrong. Especially in this day and age of Competitive online racing. Again, that's no excuse for horribly scripted AI but again that is all subjective.

His point still stands though and others have raised it. The idea not that A-spec should adapt to your choice, because then it would not be A-spec, but that A-spec should be more limited in what it allows you to pick.

More forced competition similar to the Seasonal events. Caps on points or hp or cost. Some constraints that force you to pick wisely. As it stands you can almost always pick a supercar or the equivalent and blow through a lot of A-spec with no competition. And without competition you dont get satisfaction. And without satisfaction, why play the game?

As I played through A-spec, the parts I did play through, I tried to pick evenly with the other cars, and if I got frustrated, I just overpowered it and won handily. BUt in the end its the fault of the player if they overpower themselves. Its choice, and without choice people would complain. Now we just need to make the right choices.

 

[Emwitus]

His point still stands though and others have raised it. The idea not that A-spec should adapt to your choice, because then it would not be A-spec, but that A-spec should be more limited in what it allows you to pick.

More forced competition similar to the Seasonal events. Caps on points or hp or cost. Some constraints that force you to pick wisely. As it stands you can almost always pick a supercar or the equivalent and blow through a lot of A-spec with no competition. And without competition you dont get satisfaction. And without satisfaction, why play the game?

As I played through A-spec, the parts I did play through, I tried to pick evenly with the other cars, and if I got frustrated, I just overpowered it and won handily. BUt in the end its the fault of the player if they overpower themselves. Its choice, and without choice people would complain. Now we just need to make the right choices.

Limited in what way? It gives a laundry list of cars you are supposed to pick? And this is in my opinion why A-spec needs to die. Their is nothing in each A-spec that makes it unique, apart from the car you pick. Why waste your time mourning about it? Maybe if polyphony added official fia rules or something but until then A-spec regardless of how you spin it is the same donkey introduced in gt1 lol.

 

[Polyphony]

AndyD nailed it.

Also, the next GT game needs to reintroduce qualification sessions. I can't help but think that the AI is designed to be slow during braking to give the player a chance to catch up and overtake them from last position. But in regards to awareness, racing line and etiquette, the AI is good imo.

Limited in what way?

Limited by PP would be nice. Unfortunately, the PP system wasn't in the game at launch so the A-Spec events don't have such limitations. It works for the Seasonal events though.

 

[gokieks]

I'm not choosing the easiest option am I; I'm choosing a car that I want to race in. I mean what, am I not allowed to do that? A 458 Italia is eligable to race, but somehow it's my fault because I don't get a competitive race? Huh?

It works in the reverse as well: what happens if I want to choose a VW Ghia Coupe? That's also an eligable car, but now I'm going to lose because it's too slow. This is also my fault as well, because I didn't adapt to the cars that GT5 has already chosen? This is just extraordinary that someone would take that position. To get a competitive race, I'm the one who has to do the work. That is a failing of the game. It's not even up for debate.

Maybe GT5 needs two options for races; one for those who can be bothered to artificially engineer a competitive races for themselves or to cheat; and another where the opponent cars are chosen based on your car selection, for those who actually want to have a competitive race without having to mess about artificially engineering it for themselves.

Arcade mode. You pick a difficulty level, a track, and a car, and the game populates the opponents based off of that. And you can use the cars you own in GT mode (though you'd have to set it as a favorite car, one of the game's many UI failings).

 

[Emwitus]

Also, A-spec has never and will never be as competitive as an online race. Simply because the AI as technology stands today can not make that possible.

EDIT: Gosh, forgive my edits. Im feeling grumpy today. lol. Apologies.

 

[AndyD]

Limited in what way? It gives a laundry list of cars you are supposed to pick? And this is in my opinion why A-spec needs to die. Their is nothing in each A-spec that makes it unique, apart from the car you pick. Why waste your time mourning about it? Maybe if polyphony added official fia rules or something but until then A-spec regardless of how you spin it is the same donkey introduced in gt1 lol.

Not a bad idea. Give a list of 3 suggested cars from your garage, offer a list of 3 rental cars for that race as well as an option to pick yourself anything you want.

That way you satisfy a lot more people including people who want to be handheld, and allow those who want to tweak to have their choice. If you willingly pick over/underpowered, that's your issue. If you don't have anything in garage to evenly enter, then pay a nominal fee to rent a specified car that matches.

Most of all this can expose you to cars you might not try otherwise. Instead of hopping into 1 car and plowing through everything, people might pick cars the game suggests for that particular race.

 

[paperspace]

Unrelated but speaking of AI; I think F1 2011 is pretty competetive on Legend. Not sure how it would compare to online racers but it's pretty tough.

And come to think of it, GT5 should probably have a difficulty setting for A-spec. Not that I want it myself (well, an option for mechanical damage wouldn't hurt), but let's face it, it's impossible to make a game like GT5 competetive for everyone. Surely they want to make a game that's challenging and fun at the same time, but they also want as many people as possible playing their game.

I say, if you want a real challenge, go for the Special Events and/or the License Tests. Or even better, race online. If you really want to go for the A-spec then please for the love of god don't use the best car in your garage and say the game is broken. Instead, look at the restrictions/opponents cars and choose accordingly.

 

[TheSeks]

Thanks for the Corvette '60, Metal.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Thanks for the Corvette '60, Metal.

Just getting started.

 

[spwolf]

Personally I don't like that the game changes cars on the grid because of the car used by the player; rather than that, I'd prefer (more) restrictions.

lets not forget

but clearly FRS/BRZ/GT86/86 is not based on Z4 but on their own 2000 GT, which was design goal as well.

 

[Emwitus]

Unrelated but speaking of AI; I think F1 2011 is pretty competetive on Legend. Not sure how it would compare to online racers but it's pretty tough.

And come to think of it, GT5 should probably have a difficulty setting for A-spec. Not that I want it myself (well, an option for mechanical damage wouldn't hurt), but let's face it, it's impossible to make a game like GT5 competetive for everyone. Surely they want to make a game that's challenging and fun at the same time, but they also want as many people as possible playing their game.

I say, if you want a real challenge, go for the Special Events and/or the License Tests. Or even better, race online. If you really want to go for the A-spec then please for the love of god don't use the best car in your garage and say the game is broken. Instead, look at the restrictions/opponents cars and choose accordingly.

Did you just compare F1 AI to a human online? lol

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

This may be a long shot, but anyone know if this game has additional camera options/angles in replay videos?
I'm talking about like the music video replay option from GT3, where the camera changed according to the song played. It added a shit ton of new camera angles not available in the normal replay mode.

GT4 & Prologue did not bring it back. I guess it's not here either?

 

[Dead Man]

Because they want to give people options. Some people might want to just blow through all the early "boring" events so they can get to the later ones. If they want to go take a McLaren F1 to beat a bunch of Minis, the game gives them that choice. If you want to have a competitive race, you can look at the list of cars that you will be going up against, and then go buy a Mini yourself or some other comparable car. Everybody wins.

Your inability to stop yourself from using the easiest option to win a race is not a failing of the game.

If they had a difficulty selector, this would not be an issue. Earlier GT games had adaptive fields, it worked much better to me.

 

[paperspace]

Did you just compare F1 AI to a human online? lol

Sorry, bad wording, I was comparing A-spec to F1 AI. You mentioned that every game has bad AI and while I don't disagree with you, I'd say the AI itself don't necessarily set the challenge.

 

[Mxrz]

Eh. I'd like less restrictions. Yeah, there'll be people who use over-powered stuff and than whine about the AI. But I like leaving the choice up to the player. There are a lot of cars that have nothing much in A-spec (or seasonals). But A-Spec is a tiny part of GT5 in the long run.

Really, really would like XP/credits for arcade. If they're worried about screwing up the a-spec progression, maybe they could limit until level 30+ or some such.

You can gold everything with a dual shock. Harder probably, but I know people that have the platinum and no wheel.

Are the gaf races euro hosted? I rarely seem to have best of connections to international rooms.

 

[Dash Kappei]

They put the final nail on the coffin of A-Spec when they removed starts from the grid, forcing you to pick an overpowered car to catch with the leads.

Honestly PD has such a simple card to pull to make the game a renewed blast in single player that is mindboggling they don't:

Give credit/experience (scalable depending on car tiers and difficulty) to Arcade Mode.
That way you can make use of all the nice cars you have, race with the (much) better AI of arcade mode, race with different meteo conditions, with damage, tires/fuel consumpton and so on, plus giving solo players more reasons to buy DLC tracks/cars; all of that while keeping a sense of progression and w/o reducing a-spec and b-spec to a boring way to grind for money like it has become.

And yet Kaz won't do it. It's even more crazy because all those differences (AI@10, sim grip, fuel/tires etc.) make the game shine and rightly set-up Arcade races blow away A-spec amd it would give the sp a totally new coat of paint one year after release without much work.
Wish somone would tweet Kaz about that, letting him at least consider it.

edit: badly beaten!
:brofist to MXRZ:

Spoiler

Do you use Twitter by any chance? Get in the case my friend!

 

[Dead Man]

They put the final nail on the coffin of A-Spec when they removed starts from the grid, forcing you to pick an overpowered car to catch with the leads.

Honestly PD has such a simple card to pull to make the game a renewed blast in single player that is mindboggling they don't:

Give credit/experience (scalable depending on car tiers and difficulty) to Arcade Mode.
That way you can make use of all the nice cars you have, race with the (much) better AI of arcade mode, race with different meteo conditions, with damage, tires/fuel consumpton and so on, plus giving solo players more reasons to buy DLC tracks/cars; all of that while keeping a sense of progression and w/o reducing a-spec and b-spec to a boring way to grind for money like it has become.

And yet Kaz won't do it. It's even more crazy because all those differences (AI@10, sim grip, fuel/tires etc.) make the game shine and rightly set-up Arcade races blow away A-spec amd it would give the sp a totally new coat of paint one year after release without much work.
Wish somone would tweet Kaz about that, letting him at least consider it.

edit: badly beaten!
:brofist to MXRZ:

Spoiler

Do you use Twitter by any chance? Get in the case my friend!

Agreed on everything in this and Mxrz's post. Again we see that PD are just not very good game designers. They are brilliant at the tech details, but their interfaces and actual game design are not so flash.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Anybody with a Level 19 ticket to gift?
I can "exchange" it with a Level 24, Level 23, Level 17 or 1967 ticket.

PSN is dashkap

 

[UnluckyKate]

I might have missed something, but shouldn't we had DLC every month ?

 

[Dash Kappei]

Agreed on everything in this and Mxrz's post. Again we see that PD are just not very good game designers. They are brilliant at the tech details, but their interfaces and actual game design are not so flash.

I think it's not so much bad design but that a real game designer figure is completely missing at PD.
They struggle because there's no man for the job on the team, the whole game design flow painfully reminds how a tech engineer was the lead game designer.

 

[magawolaz]

I might have missed something, but shouldn't we had DLC every month ?

Every two months, yes.

 

[razu]

Qualifying against the ghost of the fastest and slowest AI drivers would be cool. I always find qualifying on my own a bit random—am I doing okay...?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Well I'm definitely enjoying the layout of the game. It suits my personality. I can do a little of this, a little of that, all while enjoying a bunch of wildly different cars.

The game would have zero appeal to me if I was playing with a controller, but with the G27 and the settings set as simy as I can make them, I just love hopping in a new car and wondering what kind of surprise I'm in for in the handling department. I'm glad it's set up the way it is.

 

[Polyphony]

I just came back from karting, it always makes me remember how fantastic the karts feel in this game.

 

[yogaflame]

Please I hope no more GTR and add more European and American exotic and muscle cars and sports car.

 

[magawolaz]

Please I hope no more GTR and add more European and American exotic and muscle cars and sports car.

We'll probably see the 2012 GT-R in a couple of weeks.

Personally, I want more classic cars è_é

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Please I hope no more GTR and add more European and American exotic and muscle cars and sports car.

Hahahaha!

 

[Winterblink]

Trying to tame the Ferrari 330 so I can do the Historic Racing Cup. Good lord the car is a handful, I've learned so much about throttle and braking just by trying to corner this thing

 

[Dash Kappei]

Trying to tame the Ferrari 330 so I can do the Historic Racing Cup. Good lord the car is a handful, I've learned so much about throttle and braking just by trying to corner this thing

I find the Ford Mark IV much more difficult to handle then the Ferrari.
I think the Ferrari has one of the top5 be(a)stest cockpit experience (and gfx) in the game.
Watch the reflections on the speedometer

 

[spats]

http://www.gtplanet.net/sony-has-no-plans-for-gt5-spec-ii-disc-update-in-europe/

Well then fuck you SCEE, looks like I won't buy it then. Would've liked to have it in my collection but I'm not going to import it just for that.

Sony has confirmed to VideoGamer.com that it has “no plans to release Gran Turismo 5 Spec 2 in Europe at this time.

 

[Dead Man]

Sony and PD continue to mismanage shit. This game deserves better.

 

[funkystudent]

maybe after they release more DLC they can release a GT5 complete edition.


It would be handy to have a patched up retail version out. Over 2 gigs of patches is CRAZY.

 

[Emwitus]

maybe after they release more DLC they can release a GT5 complete edition.


It would be handy to have a patched up retail version out. Over 2 gigs of patches is CRAZY.

You mean it isn't complete? Could have fooled me.

 

[fu3lfr3nzy]

Well then fuck you SCEE, looks like I won't buy it then. Would've liked to have it in my collection but I'm not going to import it just for that.

The continent with the biggest GT fanbase/sales and they're getting shafted :lol

Spoiler

feelsbadman.jpg

 

[spwolf]

maybe after they release more DLC they can release a GT5 complete edition.


It would be handy to have a patched up retail version out. Over 2 gigs of patches is CRAZY.

while their patching process sucks ass, you only have to do it once....

 

[Metalmurphy]

Well then fuck you SCEE, looks like I won't buy it then. Would've liked to have it in my collection but I'm not going to import it just for that.

Lol wth? They must not like money... GT5 could EASILY go to 10 million + if they released Spec II in retail.

 

[Niks]

So we should get info on the December update pretty soon right?

 

[offshore]

So we should get info on the December update pretty soon right?

Well it should be under two weeks according to the timeline Kaz set...

Hoping for unlimited paint usage, some kind of paint chip store and check boxes for buying multiple cars. Although I've been hoping for that for a year now, so probably ain't gonna happen. Also having the option to turn lights on and off as well would be cool, not just the headlights.

 

[offshore]

Think we know when we're going to get our update, then.

"The online service of Gran Turismo 5 will undergo maintenance during the following hours:

Start: 20/12/2011 03:00 GMT
Finish: 20/12/2011 04:00 GMT

During the maintenance, it will not be possible to connect to any of the online services.

*Please note that the exact times of the maintenance may slightly vary. "

There's also something on the Japanese site about the Toyota 86 with some photos from whatever event they had. Dunno what it says though.
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/news/d15687.html

 

[2scoops]

Ok, so i have a question completely off the pace. (and one that has probably been asked several times)

Now that i got my wheel back, i've been trying to get the last few golds i need, specifically Grand tour Eiger ( arrrgghh!!!!), a few licence tests, Amg Intermediate, and Vettel silver and gold.

I've read that some feel that Eiger is more difficult than the Vettel golds. What do you all think, and if some of you have completed all of these, do you have any tips? I know that alot of you a really good drivers in GT5, and would like you advice please!

 

[amar212]

I've read that some feel that Eiger is more difficult than the Vettel golds. What do you all think,

It is not, at least not in my book.

Eiger on Tour (with Alfa 8C) is not that hard if you have experience with the track. That track is highly technical, you loose lots of seconds just for entering the one turn wrong, because it then messes up the next turn and turn after.

First and final advice for Eiger: brake early. That is the track where rule "slow in-fast out" is most crucial.

Entry at tunnel is extremely important, also the final overhill turn. You have to connect the almost perfect sequence for the all turns and in one moment you'll realise how many seconds were you loosing with the late braking. Not even to mention how proper braking is very important for a weight-shift-happy car as 8C.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Yeah, I golded Eiger but I can't even get Silver on the Vettle ones -.-

 

[2scoops]

It is not, at least not in my book.

Eiger on Tour (with Alfa 8C) is not that hard if you have experience with the track. That track is highly technical, you loose lots of seconds just for entering the one turn wrong, because it then messes up the next turn and turn after.

First and final advice for Eiger: brake early. That is the track where rule "slow in-fast out" is most crucial.

Entry at tunnel is extremely important, also the final overhill turn. You have to connect the almost perfect sequence for the all turns and in one moment you'll realise how many seconds were you loosing with the late braking. Not even to mention how proper braking is very important for a weight-shift-happy car as 8C.

I'll try the early braking method. Your right about the late braking technique, it does not help at all. Also having trouble keeping the line for the 2 s-turns, not too bad at it , but does that area need to be executed perfectly as the tunnel entry onwards as well? Thanks for your input!

 

[Polyphony]

There's also something on the Japanese site about the Toyota 86 with some photos from whatever event they had. Dunno what it says though.
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/news/d15687.html

Something about the unveiling of the production version of the Toyota 86 at the Tokyo Motor Show. As many as 45,000 participants qualified in a virtual time trial and only 6 remained in the final competition. The virtual 86 was fitted with N1 tires (comfort hard) that simulated the grip of the Michelin Primacy compound. These tires supposedly reflect the normal tire wear of the vehicle.

The rest is a recap of the qualif and race.

 

[magawolaz]

I hate that Eiger race in Grand Tour. I need to find two more seconds, I don't know how to do it. Thanks amar for the tip, I'll try again...
With that gold, as well as Vettel ones, it's Platinum...

Think we know when we're going to get our update, then.

"The online service of Gran Turismo 5 will undergo maintenance during the following hours:

Start: 20/12/2011 03:00 GMT
Finish: 20/12/2011 04:00 GMT

During the maintenance, it will not be possible to connect to any of the online services.

*Please note that the exact times of the maintenance may slightly vary. "

There's also something on the Japanese site about the Toyota 86 with some photos from whatever event they had. Dunno what it says though.
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/news/d15687.html

Nice. Lovely car.
Why are they using fat PS3s? And why that guy is using a dualshock when he has the DFGT in front of him?

 

[amar212]

The virtual 86 was fitted with N1 tires (comfort hard) that simulated the grip of the Michelin Primacy compound. These tires supposedly reflect the normal tire wear of the vehicle.

Probably the most valuable info of all, thank you for that.

Total overhaul of the tire-compound logic is one o the most underrated aspects of the Spec 2.0 update.

From Spec 2.0, Comfort compound has become what is really is - the *normal*, street-compound. Same as in days of early Prologue (prior to the Spec II) update, or in times of GT Academy Demo, Comfort compound have been drastically revamped, improved and made convincing.

From my perspective I can tell how post Spec 2.0 all weekend-races of my GTSurgeons community are run on CS compound for all non-race cars, but also including new Mazda Roadster TC and some lower-spec race-cars.

Comfort Soft compound has (finally) become what Sport Hard/Medium were before the Spec 2.0 and level of grip and portrayal of tire-physics is now extremely refined. Major improvement on every front - including suspension modeling - have probably gave a more room to make tires more convincing and example for this FT-86 event gives a pretty good direction for fitting a particular compound to the particular type (model) of the car.

I would really love that PD release some kind of guidance-table - as they did for GT5: Prologue - in order to showcase the proper compound-fit for achieving the RL spec of the tires. I know 99% of the players will not give a F about that - I am still amazed how all races in Open Lobbies are run on Race Soft compound - but I know many who will welcome such "guidance".

Me and my friends most, because it would save us precious hours of discussion about is the Comfort Medium or Comfort Soft the right compound to run RUF RGT races