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[G Rom]

Did some laps yesterday and I decided that I'll probably turn TC on. Even with it on 1, when I watch the data logger, my acceleration curve is all over the place when I exit corners...
The DS3 is just a terrible controller.

 

[Angst]

Also, remember that track friction is far from the same in a practice lounge as online. PD's little joke to make us stay on our toes...

 

[gutterboy44]

Also, remember that track friction is far from the same in a practice lounge as online. PD's little joke to make us stay on our toes...

Did some laps with the Toyota GT One last night. Lots of entry understeer followed by loads of exit oversteer. Damn if it isn't fast in a straight line though. Finding the balance between downforce and PP is interesting.

 

[Angst]

Nürburgring GP/F

​

Length: 3.20mi/5148 m Longest Straight: 0.39mi/620 m Elevation Change: 186.0ft/56,7 m Corners: 17​

Race starts in:

Allowed cars:

Audi R8 '05
Audi R10
Bentley Speed 8
BMW V12 LMR
Jaguar XJR-9
Mazda 787B
Mercedes-Benz CLK-LM
Mercedes-Benz Sauber C9
Nissan R89C
Nisan R92CP
Pescarolo Courage Judd - GV5
Pescarolo C60 Hybride
Pescarolo Courage C60 - Peugeot
Peugeot 905
Peugeot 908
Toyota GT-ONE
Toyota MINOLTA 88C-V

PP limited to 715PP​

Teams:

There are no teams, everyone for themselves.​

Track:

Nürburgring GP/F​

Laps:

35 laps​

Weather:

SUN
​

Players Participating (14/16): WOOOT!

• 01 - Angst - Toyota MINOLTA Toyota 88C-V Race Car ‘89
• 02 - Gynoug79 - Nissan R89C Race Car ‘89
• 03 - Ashk - Bentley Speed 8 Race Car ‘03
• 04 - Niks - Mercedes-Benz Sauber Mercedes C9 Race Car ‘89
• 05 - Toxa - Bentley Speed 8 Race Car ‘03 withdrawn
• 06 - MikeDub - Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR Race Car ‘98
• 07 - JuicyBob - Toyota MINOLTA Toyota 88C-V Race Car ‘89
• 08 - Dibbz - Peugeot 908 HDi FAP – Team Peugeot Total ‘10
• 09 - G Rom - Pescarolo Sport Pescarolo C60 Hybride – Judd Race car ‘05
• 10 - Mush - Peugeot 908 HDi FAP – Team Oreca Matmut ‘10 If mush's sleep cycle allows it
• 11 - SunhiLegend - Mazda 787B Race car ‘91
• 12 - Gutterboy 44 - Toyota GT-ONE Race Car (TS020) ‘99
• 13 - chimilosky - Peugeot 908 HDi FAP – Team Peugeot Total ‘10
• 14 - seattle6418 - Bentley Speed 8 Race Car ‘03
• 15 - Metalmurphy -
• 16 -

Race procedure:

Lounge opens - 21.00 CET
Lounge reset - 22.00 CET
Qualifications start - 22.00 CET
Race start 22.30 CET


At 21.50 we will do a 4 laps race as a warm-up, attendance for the warm-up race isn't mandatory, but much recommended. When we're done with the warm-up we will do a sync check in the pits, once the sync is complete qualification starts. If you don't know what this is, don't worry, we'll explain it.

We will do a parade lap at 80 MPH with no passing allowed. Race starts when you pass the beep at the start/finish line. Start accelerating when you hear the beep. No warm-up of tyres on the parade lap (doesn't work anyway and leads to widening gaps and incidents).

IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ: Rules and Regulations​

Credit and thanks to Metalmurphy for images and nice formatting

 

[Angst]

Did some laps with the Toyota GT One last night. Lots of entry understeer followed by loads of exit oversteer. Damn if it isn't fast in a straight line though. Finding the balance between downforce and PP is interesting.

You're in or just doing the practice?

 

[ashk]

You're in or just doing the practice?

Just add him for the implication of joining like you did me


Anyway, I'll probably be in the lounge tonight if anyone wants to do some races.

 

[gutterboy44]

You're in or just doing the practice?

Tentative again. I will be using the GT-ONE if I race. Just need to figure out what my plans are on Saturday evening. I will try to find out today.

I think I managed a 1:44.xx in the online lobby.

Edit: I almost never use TC but with this car and a race that long, I will probably crank it up to 4 or 5.

 

[Angst]

Tentative again. I will be using the GT-ONE if I race. Just need to figure out what my plans are on Saturday evening. I will try to find out today.

I think I managed a 1:44.xx in the online lobby.

Edit: I almost never use TC but with this car and a race that long, I will probably crank it up to 4 or 5.

I interpret that as "hell yeah, I'll even paypal you fifty bucks if I don't make it.

Cool, grid is looking really solid and i have feeling this race will be really good. Cars are beasts though and I'll probably have to turn tc on as well. *angry eye from toxa*

Just add him for the implication of joining like you did me

Anyway, I'll probably be in the lounge tonight if anyone wants to do some races.

But you are always up for a good race ashk, I just have to see you on the user list on GAF to sign you up for a race

I'll try to be in the lounge as well tonight, I sure could need the practice. Can't make the tires last for more than 6 laps and I'm not sure if a 5 stop strategy will work...

 

[EarsOfASnake]

I might make an appearance tonight, need some online lobby practice.

 

[Niks]

I'll try to be in the lounge as well tonight, I sure could need the practice. Can't make the tires last for more than 6 laps and I'm not sure if a 5 stop strategy will work...

Thats the case for everybody?
These cars eat tires for breakfast.

 

[G Rom]

Yeah the tires usage is insane.
I'm around 1:48.XXX in the lobby... :-/

Are you using a wheel, gutterboy44 ?
I'm trying to find an excuse for my lap time difference and I know from the X1 special event that the Nurburgring is far easier with the wheel so I figured it could be a good one to use.

 

[gutterboy44]

Yeah the tires usage is insane.
I'm around 1:48.XXX in the lobby... :-/

Are you using a wheel, gutterboy44 ?
I'm trying to find an excuse for my lap time difference and I know from the X1 special event that the Nurburgring is far easier with the wheel so I figured it could be a good one to use.

Yes I am using a wheel. For cornering and throttle finesse it makes a big difference.

 

[Toxa]

Edit: I almost never use TC but with this car and a race that long, I will probably crank it up to 4 or 5.

Cars are beasts though and I'll probably have to turn tc on as well. *angry eye from toxa*

I changed my mind xD I agree I never use TC but it's really hard to handle those cars with a DS3 especially with the tire wear, I can handle those cars for 10 or 15 laps but 35 ... making stellar laps is painful for my fingers xD plus during le mans the real drivers used some driving assistance

 

[seattle6418]

Hey folks, i´ll try to show up on saturday. I think i´ll be home, and i think chimilosky and my other friend EFJ will be there too.

Full grid if we can make it will be awesome.

I´ll try to test some cars tonight to decide which one to use.

 

[Angst]

Hey folks, i´ll try to show up on saturday. I think i´ll be home, and i think chimilosky and my other friend EFJ will be there too.

Full grid if we can make it will be awesome.

I´ll try to test some cars tonight to decide which one to use.

Sounds awesome! Remember to tell your pal efj to add GAFSuperGT to his friends list or he won't be able to join.

If the grid is full I'll give first dibbs to gaffers though, but there are always one or two that can't make it after all. Or is too tired (poor JuicyBob).

 

[Angst]

Good training yesterday. I think everyone needs to get a couple of hours in their car before the race. These cars aren't exactly "jump in the car, floor accelerator, win"-cars...

 

[gutterboy44]

Sweet, it looks like I should be a go for the race on Saturday. Put me down as the Toyota GT-ONE for now but that may change. I want to test some of these other pretty cars. I feel like I have barely driven some.

 

[Angst]

Sweet, it looks like I should be a go for the race on Saturday. Put me down as the Toyota GT-ONE for now but that may change. I want to test some of these other pretty cars. I feel like I have barely driven some.

You're in! (actually I signed you up yesterday as a tentative)

Only one spot left, if everyone shows this will be the biggest grid we've ever had.

Which makes reading the rules and regulations before the race even more important.

Specifically:

* Brake earlier when slipstreaming. Your speed will be significantly higher than usual. You can't practice this during practice/qualification as slipstream is only turned on during race. Flying into the car in front of you isn't considered good racing behaviour...
* If you go off track, make sure the track is clear before going back to the track
* Be careful when exiting the pits. Most likely someone else is going down the straight at 340 kmh. Stay inside the white line until you reach the corner
* TC is allowed! If you have trouble controlling the 700+ BHP it might be a good idea to sacrifice some acceleration and turn it on
* Don't cut the chicanes
* Don't use the off track area after corners to take the corners wide. This especially applies to the off track area between corner 2 and 3 and after corner 4
* If the guy in front of you is slower than you, you still have to wait for a safe place to overtake. Same rule applies when lapping backmarkers
* Be careful when entering the pits. There's a slow, second gear corner at the pit entrance and the AI won't take control of your car until after the corner

* Don't use the chat function during the race. If you do my eyes will go to your message and my car will go off track. Then I will ragedump here.

Qualifications has worked pretty good the last couple of races, however, if it doesn't we will NOT do a restart. Race will start at 22.30 CET on the dot. If somebody gets disconnected before the race start I will delay the race for max 5 minutes. This might sound harsh, but people have schedules and other commitments, so this is why I won't delay any longer.

Race time is estimated at 60 minutes, so we should be finished by 23.30 CET.

Aside from all that ToS funny stuff, have fun

 

[Niks]

Nice list of recommendations Angst, one more to add..

* Make sure your connection is A-OK before entering the lounge (clear cache, check router settings, direct connections works best etc)

 

[gutterboy44]

I will add,
*Set your HUD map to zoom 3 or 4. This gives you a secondary "rear view" as you can see cars position on the track relative to yours and not just if they are way in front or way behind. This is especially helpful on the starts when everyone is close together.

 

[ashk]

Another awesome addition:

*Please don't crash into me or cause someone else to crash into me in the first corner Anyone else is OK though.

 

[Angst]

* if you're going too fast into the first corner, aim for ashk's rear tyres

 

[Juicy Bob]

Personally, I think we should go back to standing starts again. We're all intelligent guys here, I'm sure we can manage to navigate a hairpin together without causing all sorts of mayhem. Also, do we need to have damage set to 'full'? Having a racing incident and then having to trundle back to the pits may be realistic but it's definitely not fun, at least in the way GT5 handles it. I disagree that having it 'off' means people make crazy, dangerous moves because I know that I drive the same with damage off as I do with it on. My main concern when trying to overtake someone is not taking their position but making sure I don't take them out. I also know that when I'm the one being overtaken, I have responsibilities of my own to ensure there isn't any contact. I'm sure Mush and MetalMurphy would back me up when I say that I pride myself on being a fair driver and when I do make an error, I own up and apologise for it. Ultimately, I think we should just consider trying standing starts again, especially as these races are all 'one-offs' and don't count towards a championship.

Please don't think for one second that I am questioning the brilliant organisation of this community, it's just that I have organised a number of GT5 races on F1Fanatic.co.uk and we've never had a problem with standing starts and collisions. We also run with damage set to 'low' which only penalises you for a collision for a short period of time and doesn't completely take you out of contention in a race. And if you ever do run into someone, you simply give the position back and continue. It works really well for us and I think that if we can manage it, I'm sure GAF can manage it too.

 

[EarsOfASnake]

We did a standing start last week at la sarthe in the wet without issues so I think we all good on that front. I agree with you on the damage issue but others think it isn't real enough if we don't have it.

 

[ashk]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: I'm for standing starts only if we go light damage. I've had too many races ruined by first corner crashes so I guess that makes me a bit bitter

 

[Angst]

The reason I don't want to go with light damage is that the race (IMO) is less exciting when the penalties for errors are toned down. It also makes the race less dynamic. As in the race result will pretty much be clear after only a couple of laps.

My position is this:

we do a 2 laps practice race at 21.50. If that turns out really badly we do one more 2 laps race with full damage. If that also turns into a wreck party I'll switch to light damage for the main race. This is not an invitation to wreck others during practice just to get light damage though.

Same thing with parade lap. We can try once with parade lap and once without. If it works just fine without parade lap we'll skip it.

 

[SunhiLegend]

The reason I don't want to go with light damage is that the race (IMO) is less exciting when the penalties for errors are toned down. It also makes the race less dynamic. As in the race result will pretty much be clear after only a couple of laps.

Thats exactly how I feel. When I'm racing and I know I cannot catch up to the guys in front of me, with heavy damage you always have a chance, one mistake and someone might have to pit and you can take full advantage.

 

[Angst]

Thats exactly how I feel. When I'm racing and I know I cannot catch up to the guys in front of me, with heavy damage you always have a chance, one mistake and someone might have to pit and you can take full advantage.

Yeah. I know for a fact that toxa and ashk can do better lap times than me, but with heavy damage I have the chance of catching up to them anyway. Of course it can also bite me in the ass if I mess up... lol

 

[EarsOfASnake]

I think we can do standing starts this weekend, before qualifying we run a couple of 2 lap races just so people get familiar with the first corner and that number of people. Damage is a double edged sword on this track really. On one hand we have more people so a higher possibility of crashes but on the other with the track being quite short you should get round quick enough.

We all know though that the damage issue is directly related to the start and first corner lol

 

[Angst]

Yep, we'll do two practice races, both with standing start I think. If that turns out really bad both times we'll go with parade lap for the main event.

 

[ashk]

I don't know why we have to discuss standing start vs. parade lap every time we race. IMO the parade lap works much better and the only downside is that you don't have the opportunity to overtake someone by having a better start, which in a race this long wouldn't matter much anyway. In a standing start there's a high risk of having you race ruined in the first corner through no fault of your own.

 

[Angst]

Lol, it's a tradition ashk.

But seriously, I was thinking about this earlier. Rolling start on this track leads to higher speeds going into the first corner and slipstream could lead to closer gaps between cars than with a standing start. I dunno, but that could lead to a higher risk of accidents.

 

[EarsOfASnake]

I don't know why we have to discuss standing start vs. parade lap every time we race. IMO the parade lap works much better and the only downside is that you don't have the opportunity to overtake someone by having a better start, which in a race this long wouldn't matter much anyway. In a standing start there's a high risk of having you race ruined in the first corner through no fault of your own.

Because it is bullshit that we don't do standing starts, something that is one of the most exciting parts of any race. Getting a good start from standing is a situation that can make or break your first couple of laps or even entire race. I find rolling starts boring, lacking tension and any sense of starting a race. We have a situation where the field can be quite strung out after in terms of quality after qualifying and it leads to the leaders running away at the start with little challenge. Yet we have to keep doing them because people don't want to let go of their precious 'Full Damage'. Which is a feature thrown in with little care, variation or realistic effect and it doesn't work correctly.

How about for once we actually try something different for a race instead of constant talk about minor and other half arsed changes. We have a full grid (hopefully) let's do standing start with 'Light Damage'.

 

[Angst]

How about for once we actually try something different for a race instead of constant talk about minor and other half arsed changes. We have a full grid (hopefully) let's do standing start with 'Light Damage'.

We can do that if the majority wants it.

I'll do a vote in the lounge when everybody is there on Saturday. I won't vote myself (unless it's a hung vote)

 

[Juicy Bob]

Because it is bullshit that we don't do standing starts, something that is one of the most exciting parts of any race. Getting a good start from standing is a situation that can make or break your first couple of laps or even entire race. I find rolling starts boring, lacking tension and any sense of starting a race. We have a situation where the field can be quite strung out after in terms of quality after qualifying and it leads to the leaders running away at the start with little challenge. Yet we have to keep doing them because people don't want to let go of their precious 'Full Damage'. Which is a feature thrown in with little care, variation or realistic effect and it doesn't work correctly.

How about for once we actually try something different for a race instead of constant talk about minor and other half arsed changes. We have a full grid (hopefully) let's do standing start with 'Light Damage'.

While I'm very much behind Angst and the rest of the organising team and will happily go along with anything they decide to do - I agree. But my main point is that I think we are actually intelligent enough to cope with standing starts.

But seriously, I was thinking about this earlier. Rolling start on this track leads to higher speeds going into the first corner and slipstream could lead to closer gaps between cars than with a standing start. I dunno, but that could lead to a higher risk of accidents.

Yes, you are correct. It's even the same with standing starts as well. However, while there is indeed a higher risk of contact, it can still be avoided if people use their brains and drive appropriately to avoid it. If everyone is extra cautious and prepares to brake earlier and gentler, I know we can manage this easily. It's not like any of us are deliberately trying to cause a major shunt, so I would honestly be surprised if we can't all navigate one single hairpin together now we're all much more experienced as a group.

Like I say, I don't mind if we choose to stick with the rolling starts, but I do think we should consider going back at the very least.

 

[EarsOfASnake]

If everyone is extra cautious and prepares to brake earlier and gentler, I know we can manage this easily. It's not like any of us are deliberately trying to cause a major shunt, so I would honestly be surprised if we can't all navigate one single hairpin together now we're all much more experienced as a group.

I agree, we managed it last week in the rain without issues.

 

[Angst]

Maybe we have matured enough / gotten more experienced so we can do standing starts with full damage and few incidents. First couple of races in the first season were a train wreck, but as you guys say - we had zero issues at Sarthe, even in the rain. I think it's a combination of losing some of the more hot headed drivers and us getting more experienced. If you have wrecked someone once you're not likely to do it again.

The two practice races will show us if it works, I'll call a vote after those. Or maybe just make a dictatorial decision

 

[EarsOfASnake]

Or maybe just make a dictatorial decision

Put your Charlie Whiting wig down.

 

[Niks]

Guys we have discussed this before haven't we?
Standing starts + heavy damage = 2-3 cars pitting on lap 1. Not fun. Fact.


If damage was set to light, standing starts could work, but the majority here wants damage set to heavy so... We have to choose one of the two sadly.

Heavy damage or standing starts, but not both.

 

[Angst]

I hope you are wrong niks, but if you're right the practice races will make that clear. I know I have learned from past mistakes and as most of us have done quite a few races now we shouldn't be behaving as we did on the first race at Suzuka and GVS.

 

[ashk]

I still get flashbacks from the NRL race on Fuji Speedway

But yeah, basically what Niks said. I'd be OK with both of those choices. Although I did have an idea that in the future we could do two races back to back like they do in the WTCC - one rolling start and then one standing start.

Put your Charlie Whiting wig down.

Charlie Whiting would have red-flagged our last race

 

[Gynoug79]

just to voice my oppinion, i ll say that i am fine with heavy damage and a standing start. Its a long race anything can happen, especially in these beast so an early accident is no race ender for me. I think on 15/16 car rolling start the field will spread too far across the track. But as a newcomer i am of course fine with wahtever we will do.

 

[Juicy Bob]

The thing is, there will be accidents with standing starts. So much is happening with so many cars into such a small stretch of tarmac that even with all the care in the world, accidents can happen. It happens in real racing all the time. But the thing is, I accept that. I know that if I get spun around at Turn 1, it's not necessarily anyone's fault and it's definitely not because someone's deliberately trying to take me out, it's just bad luck.

What I don't accept (and what I don't think any of us accept) are stupid accidents. Accidents where people see trouble happening in front of them and don't take enough care to avoid contact just to try and gain an advantage, or people making wild lunges from miles behind to try and make a pass. That's what we all want to avoid, and I think we can do that as we're all sensible drivers here.

 

[Toxa]

Good training yesterday. I think everyone needs to get a couple of hours in their car before the race. These cars aren't exactly "jump in the car, floor accelerator, win"-cars...

yeah it was a cool party, close battle with nab.

It's possible to break under 1.43 (1.42.9 or 42.7) but I'm stuck at 1.43.0xx so far

 

[seattle6418]

I´ll be rolling down the track like a pimp in a Bentley Speed 8.

Jokes aside, i really liked that car. Hopefully i´ll get some practice tonight because i haven´t really raced those cars a lot, altough i love them.

Chimilosky has lost of it´s hopes of having it´s GAF account activated, but he will be at the race. I think he will use one of the new Peugeot´s, i´ll confirm later on tonight.

14 cars

We should do those races every week, ranging from all types of cars BTCC, GT1, JGTC, LMP, etc...

 

[Niks]

In other news,
had some practice yesterday with Seattle and Chim on the SuperGT cars... unsurprisingly Seattle is as fast as ever.

 

[ashk]

yeah it was a cool party, close battle with nab.

It's possible to break under 1.43 (1.42.9 or 42.7) but I'm stuck at 1.43.0xx so far

I did a 42.5 the other day and I could have gotten a 42.3, but it really needs to be a perfect lap which is very hard to get in these cars.

 

[gutterboy44]

I did a 42.5 the other day and I could have gotten a 42.3, but it really needs to be a perfect lap which is very hard to get in these cars.

I'm screwed. Need some serious practice tonight.

 

[Angst]

I´ll be rolling down the track like a pimp in a Bentley Speed 8.

Jokes aside, i really liked that car. Hopefully i´ll get some practice tonight because i haven´t really raced those cars a lot, altough i love them.

Chimilosky has lost of it´s hopes of having it´s GAF account activated, but he will be at the race. I think he will use one of the new Peugeot´s, i´ll confirm later on tonight.

14 cars

We should do those races every week, ranging from all types of cars BTCC, GT1, JGTC, LMP, etc...

I'd love that. But there are no BTCC cars and none or just perhaps one of the other cars among the thousand cars available.

We will do a non-super gt event next week as well, I just haven't decided what type of cars yet.

Actually I'm thinking about doing something totally opposite of this week's event... We'll see what happens though.

 

[EarsOfASnake]

I'd love that. But there are no BTCC cars and none or just perhaps one of the other cars among the thousand cars available.

We will do a non-super gt event next week as well, I just haven't decided what type of cars yet.

Actually I'm thinking about doing something totally opposite of this week's event... We'll see what happens though.

Some much slower cars round Monaco would be sweet.