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[Zomba13]

Maybe those ignorant white folk in their gated communities need to learn a lesson about oppression. Maybe having the violence and fear at their doorstep for the first time in their lives will wake them the fuck up.

Until then, guess we just gotta put up with more dead black kids.

Yes. Because the best way to get people to actually try and change stuff is for a group of black to assault a group of people because they have nicer stuff than you.

I mean, it won't stop black kids from getting killed by cops and the cops then laughing about it on their paid time off but it might get it to happen more often and for more rich white people to be ok with it.

 

[weekev]

Care to elaborate on the differences?

The differences are that those previous situations were overtly racist behaviours which couldnt be put down to an accident. It was blatant oppression. Now Im not saying this isnt blatant but if folks start rioting the cops will be able to say that the reaction is unjustified for one mans honest mistake (regardless of how honest that mistake actually is) then all the rioters do is look like a bunch of thugs who want to create an atmosphere of violence and terror rather than getting the rest of the apathetic public onside.

Its a shitty situation and it needs someone in power to actually take responsibility to fix it.

 

[Captin Quacker]

Yup because you can't think that how sick it is how cops get to kill black people with no repercussion (apart from payed vacation) and also think that riots are fucking stupid and would rather have large protests than a bunch of twats fucking up innocent peoples cars and homes and streets and stores.



People are saying how it's ok to do one bad thing because it will be effective and change something while I suggest another effective thing that will change something yet it's bad. People only seemed to care about it being effective, not that it was bad.

Then please tell us what they should do

 

[googleplex]

Cherokee decent here, but please, tell me more all about privilage and hundreds of years of injustice. Oh, and oppression, too.

It doesn't matter what you decent is. your statement is naive and without any historical precedent.

Especially if your of native american decent.

 

[PopeReal]

Then please tell us what they should do

Protest quietly. Don't block traffic. Don't bother me. Just be quiet.

 

[FadedRevolution]

Then please tell us what they should do

We should hold hands and sing.

 

[weekev]

You have no answer and nothing is going to change but you are lecturing others on how to behave and react. OK then.

Im not lecturing anyone on how to behave or react. The fact he got away with this is disgusting but in my opinion rioting isnt going to have the same impact in this case because people will make excuses for this guy and wont feel like the reaction is justified.

 

[Weiss]

Im not lecturing anyone on how to behave or react. The fact he got away with this is disgusting but in my opinion rioting isnt going to have the same impact in this case because people will make excuses for this guy and wont feel like the reaction is justified.

Correction: Blind white people will make excuses. Everyone else gets the idea already.

I don't know but maybe not the whole "eye for an eye" style vengeance thing. More protests, more constant, consistent protesting. More spreading the Black Live Matter message. Trying to get to people if not the old rich white people (who won't be swayed anyway, and even pushed away if you fucking attack them) then to their kids, get the kids to ask their parents why they don't care about how many minority people are killed by cops and how nothing ever happens to them.

I just think rioting is stupid, but I dunno, fuck me right?

Spoken like someone who's never had their life at risk for who they are.

 

[Zomba13]

Then please tell us what they should do

I don't know but maybe not the whole "eye for an eye" style vengeance thing. More protests, more constant, consistent protesting. More spreading the Black Live Matter message. Trying to get to people if not the old rich white people (who won't be swayed anyway, and even pushed away if you fucking attack them) then to their kids, get the kids to ask their parents why they don't care about how many minority people are killed by cops and how nothing ever happens to them.

I just think rioting is stupid, but I dunno, fuck me right?

Also, if a riot will solve this then why aren't you rioting right now? Why don't you lot do something about it? If setting fire to a car and throwing a rock throw the window of a house in a rich neighbourhood is all it takes then why aren't you doing it now? Oh you want them to do it? It's ok as long as I don't have to get my hands dirty?

 

[Siegcram]

The differences are that those previous situations were overtly racist behaviours which couldnt be put down to an accident. It was blatant oppression. Now Im not saying this isnt blatant but if folks start rioting the cops will be able to say that the reaction is unjustified for one mans honest mistake (regardless of how honest that mistake actually is) then all the rioters do is look like a bunch of thugs who want to create an atmosphere of violence and terror rather than getting the rest of the apathetic public onside.

Its a shitty situation and it needs someone in power to actually take responsibility to fix it.

Probable abuse of power of power and lies aren't great counter-arguments for rioting against abuse of power and lies.

Not sure why you think the cops saying the riots are "unjustified" matters here. I mean no shit, that's the entire problem in the first place.

 

[nukedawg]

It doesn't matter what you decent is. your statement is naive and without any historical precedent.

Especially if your of native american decent.

Sure guy, you really got me.

 

[weekev]

Correction: Blind white people will make excuses. Everyone else gets the idea already.

Yeah exactly so rioting will exacerbate the situation rather than moving it towards the desired outcome.

 

[Zomba13]

Spoken like someone who's never had their life at risk for who they are.

The only way to get the rich white people to start caring about the poor black people that the cops like to shoot is totally for the poor black people to attack the rich white people. That totally won't reinforce any of the negative stereotypes they love to think about and use to justify all this horrid shit they do.

 

[Brianimaniac]

Not sure why we're still talking when the L.A. riots solved racial police brutality.

 

[DarthWoo]

I don't know but maybe not the whole "eye for an eye" style vengeance thing. More protests, more constant, consistent protesting. More spreading the Black Live Matter message. Trying to get to people if not the old rich white people (who won't be swayed anyway, and even pushed away if you fucking attack them) then to their kids, get the kids to ask their parents why they don't care about how many minority people are killed by cops and how nothing ever happens to them.

I just think rioting is stupid, but I dunno, fuck me right?

Also, if a riot will solve this then why aren't you rioting right now? Why don't you lot do something about it? If setting fire to a car and throwing a rock throw the window of a house in a rich neighbourhood is all it takes then why aren't you doing it now? Oh you want them to do it? It's ok as long as I don't have to get my hands dirty?

Protesting can only go so far. When people have been protesting for decades and then something like this (not to mention every other similar incident) just keeps happening over and over, it's basically like society is saying, "fuck you, that's what we think of your protests." Even MLK recognized that riots are inevitable when the plight of a downtrodden people goes unheard for long enough.

 

[sensui-tomo]

Not sure why we're still talking when the L.A. riots solved racial police brutality.

Yup solved it from brutality to fatality.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Yep, go set someone's car on fire, and everything is better! That totally won't backfire and heighten racial tensions! It won't perpetuate the idea of a race war for the exact kinds of hate groups that benefit from that fear! People will totally look at their burning neighborhood and want to help the people that just did that! And who cares if more innocent people die in the process? It'll all be better! Just like it totally fixed everything all the other times!

I like how you talk about riots not doing anything in reply to a post that listed riots that did lots of things.

But whatever, history's for nerds. Let's just make our own headcanon and ignore reality!

Not sure why we're still talking when the L.A. riots solved racial police brutality.

The L.A. riots brought a serious issue to the forefront of society, whereas peacefully protesting would have been ignored like it had been for pretty much everything.

 

[Captin Quacker]

I don't know but maybe not the whole "eye for an eye" style vengeance thing. More protests, more constant, consistent protesting. More spreading the Black Live Matter message. Trying to get to people if not the old rich white people (who won't be swayed anyway, and even pushed away if you fucking attack them) then to their kids, get the kids to ask their parents why they don't care about how many minority people are killed by cops and how nothing ever happens to them.

I just think rioting is stupid, but I dunno, fuck me right?

History has shown us time and time again that none of those methods are as effective as a riot. I think we can all agree that riots are terrible, but at the same time a riot is a last resort when all other avenues have been failed.

 

[weekev]

I like how you talk about riots not doing anything in reply to a post that listed riots that did lots of things.

But whatever, history's for nerds. Let's just make our own headcanon and ignore reality!

Ok genuine question, are these incidents even close in magnitude to what the listed riots fixed?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Ok genuine question, are these incidents even close in magnitude to what the listed riots fixed?

What, the constant and continued abuse of black people by police officers in a society that will almost never allow wrongdoing to be prosecuted? That seems like a pretty fucking shitty situation.

Yes, I think a black kid getting gunned down by an incompetent police officer because he had a toy gun is, on top of many other unjustified shootings that disproportionately target a specific group of people is something that needs to be stopped somehow.

 

[Brianimaniac]

The L.A. riots brought a serious issue to the forefront of society, whereas peacefully protesting would have been ignored like it had been for pretty much everything.

To what end? Not only has the situation not improved -- it's worse.

 

[A Link to the Past]

To what end? Not only has the situation not improved -- it's worse.

Because people talk about police brutality? Police brutality wasn't nearly as much of a thing in the public eye until around then. The issue is also not worsened by the protest, but rather by intentionally deceptive laws. "Tough on crime", "Zero tolerance", "Random stops", "War on drugs", "Expensive fines that put poor people in prison", these are things that disproportionately affect black people, which leads to them being put into situations that make it more difficult to avoid committing crimes.

 

[Volimar]

What a Naive statement.

Riots never justified?

The 1835 anti-slave riots?
The Stonewall riots?
Watts Riots?
LA Riots. (I was in the middle of that one by the way)
Riots during the Arab spring?
The Zoot Suit Riots?

Open a damned history book.

I had no idea that the zoot suit riots were a real thing. I thought you were being cheeky and including a swing song in your examples.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I've been reading through the thread and I've seen at least a dozen posts talking about taking an orange tip off of a fake gun that none of the cops ever had time to see until afterwards because they shot this kid almost immediately upon arriving on the scene.

Please stop with the mental gymnastics, a child was shot and left to die because the police refused to admit that they made a mistake and call for medical attention in time. Expecting a local prosecutor to do anything but tow the line when they're dependent on police support to do their jobs is a waste of time which is why special prosecutors from outside of the jurisdiction should be assigned to every police shooting case.

 

[Brianimaniac]

Because people talk about police brutality? Police brutality wasn't nearly as much of a thing in the public eye until around then. The issue is also not worsened by the protest, but rather by intentionally deceptive laws. "Tough on crime", "Zero tolerance", "Random stops", "War on drugs", "Expensive fines that put poor people in prison", these are things that disproportionately affect black people, which leads to them being put into situations that make it more difficult to avoid committing crimes.

And people talk about it...to what end?

I get what you're saying, but it didn't solve the problem, and yet here we are with people advocating for another riot. For what purpose? To get people talking and not solve the problem again?

 

[weekev]

What, the constant and continued abuse of black people by police officers in a society that will almost never allow wrongdoing to be prosecuted? That seems like a pretty fucking shitty situation.

Yes, I think a black kid getting gunned down by an incompetent police officer because he had a toy gun is, on top of many other unjustified shootings that disproportionately target a specific group of people is something that needs to be stopped somehow.

I never said the situation wasnt shitty but I just feel like those situations were genuinely justified and it was clear that riots would actually make a difference.

It was open oppression. This feels more like covert oppression, where everyone knows its happening, but by rioting you would be justifying the stereotype and giving the cops an excuse to escalate. I cant see it making things any better.

 

[Volimar]

Expecting a local prosecutor to do anything but tow the line when they're dependent on police support to do their jobs is a waste of time which is why special prosecutors from outside of the jurisdiction should be assigned to every police shooting case.

Absolutely.

 

[weekev]

I've been reading through the thread and I've seen at least a dozen posts talking about taking an orange tip off of a fake gun that none of the cops ever had time to see until afterwards because they shot this kid almost immediately upon arriving on the scene.

Please stop with the metal gymnastics, a child was shot and left to die because the police refused to admit that they made a mistake and call for medical attention in time. Expecting a local prosecutor to do anything but tow the line when they're dependent on police support to do their jobs is a waste of time which is why special prosecutors from outside of the jurisdiction should be assigned to every police shooting case.

Amen, this is the kind of thing that would go a long way to solving the problem. Its definitely a "who watches the watchers" situation.

 

[Captin Quacker]

And people talk about it...to what end?

I get what you're saying, but it didn't solve the problem, and yet here we are with people advocating for another riot. For what purpose? To get people talking and not solve the problem again?

exactly one riot/protest isn't gonna fix this 200 year old problem

 

[A Link to the Past]

And people talk about it...to what end?

I get what you're saying, but it didn't solve the problem, and yet here we are with people advocating for another riot. For what purpose? To get people talking and not solve the problem again?

To that end, you're proposing that we either fix everything or fix nothing. Neither is an option, because neither is realistic. I'd sooner see a society where police brutality is normal and expected rather than one where it is mystifying and (at least to the average person) absurd.

I never said the situation wasnt shitty but I just feel like those situations were genuinely justified and it was clear that riots would actually make a difference.

It was open oppression. This feels more like covert oppression, where everyone knows its happening, but by rioting you would be justifying the stereotype and giving the cops an excuse to escalate. I cant see it making things any better.

What about recent riots that contributed to the use of body cameras? If people riot, yeah sure it may send the message of stereotypes to people who can never have their minds changed, but it could also send the message of what happens when a society allows a powerful government agency police itself.

 

[MHWilliams]

Maybe those ignorant white folk in their gated communities need to learn a lesson about oppression. Maybe having the violence and fear at their doorstep for the first time in their lives will wake them the fuck up.

Until then, guess we just gotta put up with more dead black kids.

Nah, that tends to go poorly for black people as well.

On Nextdoor, people give away free furniture or fruit from their backyards. Users reunite lost dogs with their owners. Members organize community meetings and share tips about babysitters and plumbers. But under the "Crime and Safety" section of the site, the tone is much less neighborly. There, residents frequently post unsubstantiated "suspicious activity" warnings that result in calls to the police on Black citizens who have done nothing wrong. In recent months, people from across the city have shared with me Nextdoor posts labeling Black people as suspects simply for walking down the street, driving a car, or knocking on a door. Users have suggested that Black salesmen and mail carriers may be burglars. One Nextdoor member posted a photo of a young Black boy who failed to pick up dog poop and suggested that his neighbors call the police on him.

 

[Brianimaniac]

I would have told you that body cameras were the answer, but look at all the cases we've seen already where those haven't helped.

I don't know what the answer is, but not having a better idea doesn't make a riot a good idea.

 

[Weiss]

I would have told you that body cameras were the answer, but look at all the cases we've seen already where those haven't helped.

I don't know what the answer is, but not having a better idea doesn't make a riot a good idea.

So your solution is do nothing and patiently wait for the oppressors to get bored with getting away with murder.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I would have told you that body cameras were the answer, but look at all the cases we've seen already where those haven't helped.

I don't know what the answer is, but not having a better idea doesn't make a riot a good idea.

What is with your obsession with there only being fixes that are absolute and perfect? I get the feeling that a black person will pick "imperfect solution" to "literally nothing" every time.

All you've been able to propose is "be oppressed quietly," and that simply isn't an option.

 

[royalan]

To what end? Not only has the situation not improved -- it's worse.

No it's not. Not by a long shot.

Just try to imagine how bad police brutality was in the 90s when there were LESS safeguards for black citizens.

 

[A Link to the Past]

It's amazing how people think that the oppression has worsened after the riots, whereas what they're actually observing is that it's easier to see the oppression than it's been in our history.

 

[FadedRevolution]

It's amazing how people think that the oppression has worsened after the riots, whereas what they're actually observing is that it's easier to see the oppression than it's been in our history.

"How dare these uppity negroes complain about racism its Obama's fault that people keep playing the race card."

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Damn, how much worse is the CPD trying to make this

 

[Brianimaniac]

What is with your obsession with there only being fixes that are absolute and perfect? I get the feeling that a black person will pick "imperfect solution" to "literally nothing" every time.

All you've been able to propose is "be oppressed quietly," and that simply isn't an option.

I don't have an obsession with fixes that are absolute and perfect, I just think fixes should actually be fixes and not symbolic gestures that don't actually accomplish anything. You keep pointing to effects of rioting that have no inherent value. The effects exist, yes, but nothing is better.

So your solution is do nothing and patiently wait for the oppressors to get bored with getting away with murder.

This is such a stupid post that I quit.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I don't have an obsession with fixes that are absolute and perfect, I just think fixes should actually be fixes and not symbolic gestures that don't actually accomplish anything. You keep pointing to effects of rioting that have no inherent value. The effects exist, yes, but nothing is better.


This is such a stupid post that I quit.

It's kind of hard to believe that when you disputed the value of basically all past riots brought up by saying "the problem still exists so they're bad!!". In what universe does that mean anything other than "riots are only okay if they fix every single problem that the rioters are upset about"?

 

[Zomba13]

It's kind of hard to believe that when you disputed the value of basically all past riots brought up by saying "the problem still exists so they're bad!!". In what universe does that mean anything other than "riots are only okay if they fix every single problem that the rioters are upset about"?

When there have been protests the problems still exist.
When there have been riots the problems still exists.

Therefore riots are better because people get to loot and break shit.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

The whole "riots never solve anything" idea is kind of dumb; they're not supposed to solve anything, they're supposed to bring more attention to issues and express frustration. No one imagines anti-discrimination legislation being drawn up and passed at riot. Sometimes when the major in power ignores you, you have to make them take notice.

 

[DedValve]

What the hell is the government going to do about these violent gang shootings?

 

[A Link to the Past]

When there have been protests the problems still exist.
When there have been riots the problems still exists.

Therefore riots are better because people get to loot and break shit.

When there have been peaceful protests, people ignore the problem.
When there have been riots, people literally can't.

 

[Captin Quacker]

When there have been protests the problems still exist.
When there have been riots the problems still exists.

Therefore riots are better because people get to loot and break shit.

Protest are easily ignored riots aren't

Edit:beaten by a snitch

 

[pigeon]

I don't have an obsession with fixes that are absolute and perfect, I just think fixes should actually be fixes and not symbolic gestures that don't actually accomplish anything. You keep pointing to effects of rioting that have no inherent value. The effects exist, yes, but nothing is better.

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

.

 

[FadedRevolution]

Why can't y'all be like MLK

Spoiler

 

[A Link to the Past]

Protest are easily ignored riots aren't

Edit:beaten by a snitch

You simply weren't fast enough to catch me~.

 

[PopeReal]

When there have been protests the problems still exist.
When there have been riots the problems still exists.

Therefore riots are better because people get to loot and break shit.

Break some shit and Americans panic. Shit is very important to us.

 

[Zomba13]

Ok then, why aren't you rioting right now? If it's so effective and fool proof and guaranteed to solve this problem isn't it morally wrong not to?