ChiefDada
Member
You're absolutely right! It's shockingly mediocre especially for a marvel movie. Looks like character was carelessly superimposed onto the scene via green screen. Avatar is top rate CG but also most expensive movie ever made lol.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
You're absolutely right! It's shockingly mediocre especially for a marvel movie. Looks like character was carelessly superimposed onto the scene via green screen. Avatar is top rate CG but also most expensive movie ever made lol.
nemiroff
Gold Member
These are all very important points on this topic, and it's often "forgotten" or not discussed as much as it should be.
You can definitely go a long way with a solid artistic talent like ND has, and even more so with a fusion of "ND" and new technology. For example, one of the astonishing moments in graphics history to me was Mirror's Edge's use of UE3's Lightmass to bake GI with a strikingly stylized look and feel that still looks good today. But then comes the 2023 realization that it's a completely and utterly static "illusion." You can't add anything dynamic whatsoever on top of it without making it look like complete rubbish. It was more than we expected for the time, but The Times They Are a-Changin'.
You can even see in the TLOU2 video above how the developers had to abandon some dynamic atmosphere to find a balance. How do you juggle limited processing power and resources and avoid making everything look dry and static? That's why it's a sure bet that almost all developers look forward to the "RT revolution" when they finally have access to a full set of lighting tools to realize their visions (stylized or not) without having to worry about a more cumbersome process of smoke and mirrors.
Still, at this time, only a very few people on this planet have an RTX4090 to run CP PT at high framerates with true RTGI (See here how grounded it still looks when the time of day changes on the fly), and it'll take some time before the new generation of consoles arrives. So it'll be interesting to see how it will be balanced in the first batch of UE5 games.
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Just a small correction. Lightmass didn't exist when ME was released. DICE used Beast for the light baking.
nemiroff
Gold Member
Wait, you're right, thanks. I have retinal bleeding after eye surgery so when looking at DICE's and Illuminate Labs (Beast) presentation of the GI in ME I read "lightmaps" as "lightmass" and for some reason it stuck
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ChiefDada
Member
Well fellas, in 24hrs we will be seeing things that will really change the tone of this thread forever. Convert nonbelievers that will finally see the light, or disappoint those like myself who believe that the current gen consoles are capable of CG like visuals. It's been a long time coming and an absolute pleasure discussing and debating with everyone. Now that we're on the eve of the PS showcase, I feel a bit sad to say goodbye to the mystery of what the current gen will bring us. It made for great conversation! Anyways, I hope you all loaded up on your favorite snacks and drinks. See you guys on the other side!
Come On Tars
Member
The problem is: how much can we trust them to deliver what they show?
Hawking Radiation
Member
I'm calling BS.
What are your credentials to know what will be shown off in the PS showcase.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They should come close. Yes, that first Horizon trailer was bullshit but the game looked pretty close to that all things considered. Same with Spiderman Miles, TLOU2, Days Gone, Ghost of Tsushima. They will get 80% there.
I am more curious about the jump in physics, destruction, npc simulations and other IO SSD stuff that Cerny and devs boasted about. Here are my impressions of the PS5 reveal:
This was 3 years ago. None of those games delivered on the SSD promise except maybe Ratchet. Everything else was either cross gen or looked underwhelming.
If every game from sony first party fails to look as good as Matrix or completely forgets about simulation and physics then id consider it a failure. plain and simple.
ChiefDada
Member
On what?
Huh? I know current gen PS5 games will be shown.
ChiefDada
Member
Thats up to each person I guess but everything labeled "Captured on PS5" is good in my book.
Hawking Radiation
Member
You sound like you know something that's coming from this PS showcase. Unless i misunderstood your post.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Yeah, I'm simply not expecting Matrix level quality from games tomorrow. Thats end of gen stuff right there. I hope I'm wrong.
Also not expecting a jump in physics, destructability, or anything like that - It seems like theres only 10 people begging for that stuff, me being one of the loudest. The rest are satisfied with 60fps PS4 games.
I am hoping for Factions 2 to be the big surprise here.
Built around the PS4 gen, blah blah blah, I dont care. When Naughty Dog, the company that pulled off TLOU 2 on a 1.84 TF machine, says its their most ambitious project ever, I expect to be blown away.
I suspect large scale battles, stunning environments, intense weather systems that desttory environments, incredible animations, realistic physics, gore and hit reactions... And.. If any game has destructability, I suspect it will be this.
The concept art just screams all of that to me. Its fucking Naughty Dog man, they don't play. Especially not with The Last of Us name (on PlayStation lol).
Also not expecting a jump in physics, destructability, or anything like that - It seems like theres only 10 people begging for that stuff, me being one of the loudest. The rest are satisfied with 60fps PS4 games.
I am hoping for Factions 2 to be the big surprise here.
Built around the PS4 gen, blah blah blah, I dont care. When Naughty Dog, the company that pulled off TLOU 2 on a 1.84 TF machine, says its their most ambitious project ever, I expect to be blown away.
I suspect large scale battles, stunning environments, intense weather systems that desttory environments, incredible animations, realistic physics, gore and hit reactions... And.. If any game has destructability, I suspect it will be this.
The concept art just screams all of that to me. Its fucking Naughty Dog man, they don't play. Especially not with The Last of Us name (on PlayStation lol).
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Insane Metal
Member
So uh what the hell are you talking about?
I'll give you the bolded. The rest, not so much.
At this point I'd just be glad if what they announce isn't cross-gen.
TheRedRiders
Member
Regardless of what we get tomorrow, it shouldn't mean this thread has to become irrelevent. I think it can evolve into graphics technology speculation thread, with all current and upcoming games.
The discourse on this thread has been consistent and of high quality for the most part, especially when compared to other threads (sorry I don't mean to sound shady) lol
Anyways i've muted several threads on here already, just in case something gets leaked. I want to be surprised tomorrow and I want my jaw to drop. LFG!
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I can't imagine we're going to all of the sudden get many "next gen" games in tomorrow's event just because games are no longer being released as cross gen.
These consoles have struggled with games like Jedi Survivor and Plague Tale Requiem which are new gen only but are utilizing some next gen features. They're demanding games and the consoles cant run them well at 60 fps and can just manage 30 fps at 1440p (or less). Look at Cyberpunk 2077, Control Ultimate, and countless others that top out at 1440p/60 with middling settings.
Of course these are first party games so the talent and optimization will be better however I'm not expecting games to look beyond what we've seen with Ratchet, Demon's Souls, or Horizon FW.
I hope I'm wrong.
These consoles have struggled with games like Jedi Survivor and Plague Tale Requiem which are new gen only but are utilizing some next gen features. They're demanding games and the consoles cant run them well at 60 fps and can just manage 30 fps at 1440p (or less). Look at Cyberpunk 2077, Control Ultimate, and countless others that top out at 1440p/60 with middling settings.
Of course these are first party games so the talent and optimization will be better however I'm not expecting games to look beyond what we've seen with Ratchet, Demon's Souls, or Horizon FW.
I hope I'm wrong.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
I would caution against cutting edge anything in multiplayer games, even Factions from ND. Maybe BF3 esque destruction. Maybe. But that's it.Yeah, I'm simply not expecting Matrix level quality from games tomorrow. Thats end of gen stuff right there. I hope I'm wrong.
Also not expecting a jump in physics, destructability, or anything like that - It seems like theres only 10 people begging for that stuff, me being one of the loudest. The rest are satisfied with 60fps PS4 games.
I am hoping for Factions 2 to be the big surprise here.
Built around the PS4 gen, blah blah blah, I dont care. When Naughty Dog, the company that pulled off TLOU 2 on a 1.84 TF machine, says its their most ambitious project ever, I expect to be blown away.
I suspect large scale battles, stunning environments, intense weather systems that desttory environments, incredible animations, realistic physics, gore and hit reactions... And.. If any game has destructability, I suspect it will be this.
The concept art just screams all of that to me. Its fucking Naughty Dog man, they don't play. Especially not with The Last of Us name (on PlayStation lol).
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I look at something like Ground War in MW2 and think how easily that mode could be taken to the next level with a few things. Its awesome as is, but with:
- Improved fidelity
- Destruction
- Dynamic Weather
It would be all anyone talks about instead of Warzone.
I don't see why an exclusive game from an elite studio cant have these things, even an MP game.
Im not expecting Single Player quality visuals. More next gen in other areas. One can hope
Yep and further more how much longer will gamers in general accept false advertising with the same excuses like "they always do that" "how can you complain when you know they do it everytime?"
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It’s their destiny. Don’t expect anything special. We have seen leaked footage. It looked like a cross between PS3 and PS4.Yeah, I'm simply not expecting Matrix level quality from games tomorrow. Thats end of gen stuff right there. I hope I'm wrong.
Also not expecting a jump in physics, destructability, or anything like that - It seems like theres only 10 people begging for that stuff, me being one of the loudest. The rest are satisfied with 60fps PS4 games.
I am hoping for Factions 2 to be the big surprise here.
Built around the PS4 gen, blah blah blah, I dont care. When Naughty Dog, the company that pulled off TLOU 2 on a 1.84 TF machine, says its their most ambitious project ever, I expect to be blown away.
I suspect large scale battles, stunning environments, intense weather systems that desttory environments, incredible animations, realistic physics, gore and hit reactions... And.. If any game has destructability, I suspect it will be this.
The concept art just screams all of that to me. Its fucking Naughty Dog man, they don't play. Especially not with The Last of Us name (on PlayStation lol).
Now granted it was likely running on a PS4 and we might have gotten some next gen upgrades since the leak, but like I said above, it needs to be 60 fps, needs to have coop, and is open world. I would love to be proven wrong, but the CPU has consistently shown to be a huge bottleneck in games this gen just like last gen, and these PvE games hit the CPU hard.
Yeah, I hope I am wrong too, but games like Star Wars, Dead Space, and TLOU Part 1 dont fill me with a lot of confidence.
Which is funny because just a few years ago, I was the one who expected photorealistic visuals similar to what we saw in the 2019 UE4 Rebirth demo, the Australia demo, and the Matrix demo...... while everyone laughed at me. I actually remember an argument in the next gen hardware thread posting a gif from the movie Avatar saying we should expect visuals that come very close to this. Got a lot of LOL reactions. A few days later, Ubisoft revealed avatar and in some areas looked almost as good as that gif I posted.
The hardware is there. The GPU processing power is there. I just dont know if the talent is there or the ambition. Third party devs rarely push the envelope but first party devs like bluepoint, ND, and Insomniac focusing on 60 fps have really hurt the visual fidelity we would expect from top tier first party studios. If we get a bunch of 1440p 60 fps games today then we would be looking at essentially 5 tflops games that will look only marginally better than PS4 Pro games that ran at 1440p no a 4.2 tflops GPU. It's why HFW, TLOU2 can go toe to toe with Demon Souls, TLOU1 and Ratchet despite being held back by PS4 specs.
Then there is this whole fascination with RT that is way to GPU and CPU heavy for minimal upgrades to visual fidelity. Star Wars fucked itself with this insane focus on this stuff and the result was 600p in perfrmance mode and drops to sub 900p in quality mode.
Devs will have to avoid a lot of these pitfalls to get visuals looking as good as the Matrix or that UE4 Rebirth demo.
- Must target 30 fps instead of 60 fps
- Must target 1440p instead of native 4k
- Must use Software Lumens instead of Hardware Lumens
- Must stay away from CPU and memory bandwidth heavy RTGI and RT Reflections
I just dont have any faith in devs to avoid every single one of these issues that will ultimately negatively impact graphics fidelity.
Just an hour to go. My last hope is Spidey 2, if that game disappoints graphically then I am losing all hope for this gen. Might sound a bit hyperbolic but it really is not.
Prepare them GIFs, son!Today is de day
HawarMiran
Banned
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
As a general rule, dont expect insomniac to set any new standards or change the game. They are a workman studio that will get the games out.
I am hoping for ND to give us a teaser like the one we got in 2014 and the TLOU teaser in 2016. Something so advanced, people are like no way thats real... (and it wont probably wont be lol but they will get close in cutscenes)
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Told you not to put your faith in Insomniac. They are a B tier studio who are good at putting out good looking games but nothing too special.
That said no one else showed up at this conference so this industry is cooked. I think im done. No point looking forward to anything from these lazy unambitious hacks over at Sony or MS.
That said no one else showed up at this conference so this industry is cooked. I think im done. No point looking forward to anything from these lazy unambitious hacks over at Sony or MS.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
I need to see the Spiderman 2 trailer in 4K but wow im disappointed in how it looked when they switched to gameplay. I was hyped when i saw how fast they where going and the wingsuite was nice but graphically outisde some parts it didn't look that much better than SM:MM. The event was a big disappointment graphically and most of the stuff was not even real time.
Genuine question, is Spiderman 2 coming out on the PS4?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Probably. there is nothing here that cant be done on a PS4 at a lower level of detail. lighting is good but can be downgraded.
there is zero destruction, physics, NPC simulation to speak of.
TheRedRiders
Member
Agreed, I think the footage and gameplay will look significantly better once it's released. The footage makes me think this game is still balls deep in production.
It is a modest improvement over the first game. Geometry wasn't impressive, lighting look good but man those water physics looked pathetic.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
This part legit in game. I replayed it this year. 20fucking16As a general rule, dont expect insomniac to set any new standards or change the game. They are a workman studio that will get the games out.
I am hoping for ND to give us a teaser like the one we got in 2014 and the TLOU teaser in 2016. Something so advanced, people are like no way thats real... (and it wont probably wont be lol but they will get close in cutscenes)
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
TRASH. All around.
Im stunned.
SpiderMan 2 looks MID. I cannot believe it.
Im stunned.
SpiderMan 2 looks MID. I cannot believe it.
Lethal01
Member
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Reason I asked cuz it looked like a freakin cross-gen game, dude. Wow what a shitshow that was, the entire thing.
TheRedRiders
Member
4K finally
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dont laugh just yet. Chiefdada did the same thing with TLOU Part 1 last year. Hyped it up to insane levels then it came out and literally looked identical to TLOU2. Chiefdada kept posting gifs pretending it looked next gen.
back to zelding
He will do the same with spiderman 2.
Cr1ptkeeper
Member
Spiderman was a big dissapointment but Allan Wake looked good.
But nothing they showed in the stream was in the same league as the Matrix demo.
RE4 VR also looked very good.
But nothing they showed in the stream was in the same league as the Matrix demo.
RE4 VR also looked very good.
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Schmendrick
Member
That posting aged like fresh milk.
ChiefDada
Member
No I won't. I think the PS Showcase was utter trash for those of us who wanted to see first party games. Sony gets an F- today. Unquestionably their worst showcase to date.
As it relates to Spiderman 2. Yep, 95% of it was very underwhelming and as
TheRedRiders
said it looks to be unpolished. The only next gen I really noticed was the traversal - I thought the water chase with the speed looked reallu good. But yeah, overall this was a huge disappointment.Pic of my dinner that I thought I was preparing for some of y'all.
Dont worry guys we will get those next gen visuals one day...when the ps6 launches or something....I want my gow3 moment dammit:/No I won't. I think the PS Showcase was utter trash for those of us who wanted to see first party games. Sony gets an F- today. Unquestionably their worst showcase to date.
As it relates to Spiderman 2. Yep, 95% of it was very underwhelming and as
Pic of my dinner that I thought I was preparing for some of y'all.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
This conference put the nail in the coffin for this generation. Also is very upsetting that Sony only showed ONE single player story driven PS5 only game!
What the actual fuck.
So now we Microsoft basically saying their only focus is GamePass and Sony saying their focus is GaaS.
I know that business changes and companies have to adapt, but the direction gaming has gone in this gen and what looks to be the next 10-20 years is a bummer if you're like me who cares primarily about single player games!
What the actual fuck.
So now we Microsoft basically saying their only focus is GamePass and Sony saying their focus is GaaS.
I know that business changes and companies have to adapt, but the direction gaming has gone in this gen and what looks to be the next 10-20 years is a bummer if you're like me who cares primarily about single player games!
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
I just watched the 4K trailer and now im even more disappointed. I think i just expected too much from Insomniac after there solid cross gen SM:MM and R&C. I mean just look at this, i hope this shit is still unfinished because it looks average for a PS5 only Sony exclusive
Looks about the same level as Quantum Break,
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
As far as "next gen"? Yeah, I WAS right. These consoles don't have the juice to pull it off.
Dragons Dogma was chugging. Spiderman 2 was running at 30 fps and as I predicted, doesn't look much better than Miles Morales let alone Ratchet (which might even be more impressive-i need to rewatch Spiderman 2 at 4k still). Alan Wake 2 seems like it'll be a looker but not in a "this is next gen" way.
We do need a PS5 pro. Where was Death Stranding 2? Any update from Naughty Dog? I was really hoping for a ps5 update to Last of Us 2.
That Ninja game looked OK but is anyone else getting a little bit sick of the same old Japanese/Chinese action games?
Spiderman 2- is it better in 4k?
Dragons Dogma was chugging. Spiderman 2 was running at 30 fps and as I predicted, doesn't look much better than Miles Morales let alone Ratchet (which might even be more impressive-i need to rewatch Spiderman 2 at 4k still). Alan Wake 2 seems like it'll be a looker but not in a "this is next gen" way.
We do need a PS5 pro. Where was Death Stranding 2? Any update from Naughty Dog? I was really hoping for a ps5 update to Last of Us 2.
That Ninja game looked OK but is anyone else getting a little bit sick of the same old Japanese/Chinese action games?
Spiderman 2- is it better in 4k?
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Nah man its even worse, its a big letdown. There are some parts that look decent but its mostly really average for what we expected.