That's your interpretation and opinion so fair enough.
When did I say I was blown away by any developer? What exactly are you referencing here?
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
When did I say I was blown away by any developer? What exactly are you referencing here?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
He’s talking about me.
Msamy
Member
I think star wars outlaw have a huge chance to look as good as reveal gameplay because of 3 things:-
1-avater looks impressive in ps5.
2- based in massive studio history their only flop 1 time with the division 1 downgrade than original reveal but in the other other hand the division 2 gameplay are identical or very close to its reveal.
3-star wars outlaw are very likely gonna release in ps5 pro and pro version of x series which as a main target which will give it enough power to look good
1-avater looks impressive in ps5.
2- based in massive studio history their only flop 1 time with the division 1 downgrade than original reveal but in the other other hand the division 2 gameplay are identical or very close to its reveal.
3-star wars outlaw are very likely gonna release in ps5 pro and pro version of x series which as a main target which will give it enough power to look good
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
They developed it with some help from Naughty Dog.
The sky segments I fully agree. The ground segments many of them (considering there in 1st person an thus way closer to the assets and textures than HFW's 3rd person camera) are noticeable high fidelity and I think at least match if not exceed HFW in certain shots.....the characters on the other hand need serious work and I dont think it helps that we have them in film cgi to compare against.
Yah looks like the usual Ubisoft Vertical slice flourishs.Good fucking lord. What. The. Fuck.
This is like that fake Anthem demo in terms of shit going on. It looks so alive.
I meant to say tongue in cheek. at least thats how i remember that two year old tweet.
H . R . 2
Member
that was Starfield though and I was comparing it with Fallout
While dont find it quite as impressive as I did before its Ubisoft so most likely.
That shot of those blocky Morrowwind looking characters makes me want to cut my eyes out.Avatar looks like the multiplat version of Burning Shores.
I mean, this is not touching Burning Shores in anyway, at all. Character models look very last gen. Lighting looks flat. You compare this to Plainsong in HFW and its night and day.
And lets not get confused... This is Ubisoft.
This is what the game looks like.. I think you're all running down a dangerous road getting too hyped for this thing.
You see this gif? You see those explosions? Yeah... Im not buying what they're showing.
You can never trust the company that put out the Watch Dogs 2012 demo and told us thats what to expect.
I will say I did though finally check the video out on a big screen and looks way better than on cellphone like alot better. The chatacters still looked like shit though with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions.
Whoever made that explosion should be fired.
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You're forgetting the biggest weapon those consoles should have, frame generation. AMD is already working on it and it's almost a certainty next gen consoles will have it. This means you bypass CPU limitation, the biggest hurdle in getting 60fps. It should be a piece of cake to do 60fps with upscaling and frame generation. You have laptops today that achieve 120+ fps in AAA games with frame generation, to think that in 2028 we won't be able to do 60fps on consoles is absurd imo. Not only that, I believe 120fps will become common with shooters and fighting games next gen.
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H . R . 2
Member
If its in their own trailer, its fair use. If they use it to sell the game, its fair use.
But ok, I'll pick the better looking gifs.
These aren't exact comparisons, but close enough.
Avatar on top, Horizon below for every comparison.
This video isnt even from Burning Shores, its from the OG Game. Still punches up.
And then in Horizon you have an entire underwater world to explore also that looks just as amazing.
Not to mention incredible Lava
Semi Destructible environments (Trees, small structures, etc)
Vastly superior character models and animation.
And certain "small details" in the game just are on another level.
NOT to mention, Horizon also has by far, the most detailed enemy character models in a game (the machines are rendered with an INCREDIBLE amount of detail)
The NPC's look better than most games main characters.
How is Avatar better? What are you guys talking about lol.
HBS looks vastly better in many areas, especially the overall IQ. however, Avatar still has a chance to look on par with or even better than Horizon.
but I believe these early comparisons are not practical. we are comparing what is probably a vertical slice with an actual game that has already been released and praised for its visuals
to be honest, I did not let myself get carried away this time. I found both Avatar and SWO great-looking but we don't know if they will release with similar overall fidelity [will probably get downgraded like The Division did]
Avatar's lighting, thus far, looks extremely flat to me and while lighting in SWO seemed much better it was not vastly better than, say
Uncharted 4 with which it seems to share aesthetics and mechanics [ I think Ubisoft did it on purpose ]
but it will still be considered an upgrade if the final game looks like that, because U4 was linear and this is an open-world game
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I agree. The Fable trailer benefited greatly from it.
Also goddamit devs turn on character self shadowing again. Its 2023 make that shit mandatory already. Not only that but even the SWO gameplay showed seriously low quality AF....thats the 3rd generation in a row now with that shit.
You just posted 3 images where its just a single character surrounded by a blurred out abstract background. What exactly is next gen about these shots?Are we still Pretending this doesn't look next gen?
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GymWolf
Gold Member
The desert is the worst looking area, that starfield pic was released by bethesda, it doesn't get more cherry picked than that.
Also, pretty sure that the dinobots are gonna utterly destroy the mech in starfield in terms of details and geometry, and let's not even talk about character rendering.
Both games have different strong points.
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Negotiator101
Member
As far as I remember ND took over full development responsibilities at some point but not sure at what stage.
H . R . 2
Member
yes, the majority of games that use cinematic lighting [well-placed practical and dramatic lights] look far more beautiful than games that try to achieve better visuals by upgrading everything else.
what you are referring to is defused lighting which can add a lot to a scene if used correctly.
the problem is devs are neither educated nor talented enough in these areas as it takes years to learn how master lighting
when done right [The Matrix Demo], proper cinematic lighting can elevate an otherwise mediocre looking cutscene or gameplay section to something extremely pleasant on the eyes
Lethal01
Member
You can't tell me that graphics can't be pushed far enough than a next gen system wouldn't struggle to run it at even 480p. Unless you think we are pretty much at the end of graphical improvement.
Let me put it this way, a Pixar movie couldn't run on a next gen system at even 240p
If you are considering frame generation sure, but if we are talking about the actual framerate? There will ALWAYS be devs willing to sacrifice 60fps for higher fidelity, whether than native 4k or pathtracing with ridiculously detailed assets.
If its in their own trailer, its fair use. If they use it to sell the game, its fair use.
But ok, I'll pick the better looking gifs.
These aren't exact comparisons, but close enough.
Avatar on top, Horizon below for every comparison.
This video isnt even from Burning Shores, its from the OG Game. Still punches up.
And then in Horizon you have an entire underwater world to explore also that looks just as amazing.
Not to mention incredible Lava
Semi Destructible environments (Trees, small structures, etc)
Vastly superior character models and animation.
And certain "small details" in the game just are on another level.
NOT to mention, Horizon also has by far, the most detailed enemy character models in a game (the machines are rendered with an INCREDIBLE amount of detail)
The NPC's look better than most games main characters.
How is Avatar better? What are you guys talking about lol.
I totally feel you here. Those shots definitly look better and Avatar is very inconsistent. It looks anywhere from below average to darn impressive where as HFW has way more polish and most of the time consistently looks ace.
I do think Avatar has waybetter lods though and view distance. It also has realtime GI which will probaby pay dividends in the end. We also dont know the scale of Pandora which if its anything like the movie will probably spank HFW scale. Thats of course just a favorable assumption at this point and this is clearly an Ubisoft vertical slice so in the end the game might look like smeared shit for all we know.
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Well, you can't just ignore things like frame generation, it's bound to be integral part of gaming going forward. Actual resolution or actual framerate are things that are going to be irrelevant on consoles, with resolution that is already the case. So really 60fps should be an easy get once these features are built into next gen machines, especially with machine learning bound up play a huge part.
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H . R . 2
Member
I disagree with the whole theory that ND tried its hand at next-gen and failed. people who say that have failed to understand what was achieved with the TLOUp1:
TLOU1 was a pure cash grab ordered by Sony in order to push its misguided multimedia agenda while trying to bring a bit of harmony and congruence between the titles and the TV series.
yes they did have a chance to create something amazing, ...but they haven't failed YET.
If I were a ND dev, I wouldn't want to outdo myself with puny a remake. I would want it to be a new title [ not necessarily a new IP] with entirely new mechanics introduced properly in a huge event.
I believe in ND
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Lethal01
Member
Lol no, native resolution still affects the final image quality a ton.
H . R . 2
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if the sections of the trailer that people praised the most turn out to be pre-rendered cut-scenes or instances of that Volume-like technique Massive are rumoured to be using because
the majority of the gameplay seemed consistently flat in terms of lighting whereas the shots of those 'outpost liberations' seemed suddenly far better lit.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Look at my shots few pages back the. Or in demo topic. Shit looks downright cgi at times. The soft light and shadows around the eyes. The way skin is shaded. It Bette Ethan anything we have ever seen in a game at times. Some of The stills I posted look like frame captures from a cgi movie.
Same goes for effects. The tornado in benedikta fight looks crazy
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You're missing the point. The point isn't to say that resolution has no meaning, but that actual input resolution isn't what you're getting on screen. Same with frame generation. As upscaling and frame generation evolves we'll likely reach a point soon that difference between the two will be indistinguishable. Nvidia are almost there already.
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Not sure what it is you see in FF16 graphics. The lighting looks dull and most NPCS look like plastic dolls. There are a bunch of last gen games that have better looking charactes and skin rendering. The game began as cross gen and it clearly shows. Comparing it to CGI is a bit hyperbolic.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
You cannot. You simply cannot disregard that. Look at the shots I posted in this post. Looks like cgi stills. Look at this in full screen it’s insane. Nothing looks like that
Do you think that war scene is pre rendered? It looks crazy good. With many characters, effects, earth shattering and so on.
Many scenes in the demo look pre-rendered/cgi to me. It could be all real time but it would be kinda funny if square enix was apparently a master of inserting high quality FMVs into the game lol.
Some faces shots are just nuts. The soft lighting is something else. It doesn't look realistic but it got that cgi look which fake trailers like deep down had.... maybe,
I think HFW got more detail and is more technical.. but never achieves THIS cgi look. Maybe it's direction or more personal lighting. HFW is the best looking ps5 game... but these shots below look way ahead imo. but HFW is more consistent probably.
like... these must be pre-rendered RIGHT ?! are we getting bamboozled by square enix ?! I took these yesterday
edit: No way it's real time. The softnesa round her eyes in the 2nd pic and soft shadowing?! I've never seen a game do that.
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arkhamguy123
Member
So is FF16 next Gen or not? You guys ain’t talking about it but I’m watching the demo on YouTube and it seems pretty damn next Gen ~82% of the time
It seems fable/starfield/avatar/Star Wars almost in parts
EDIT: looks like the topic is heating up right after I post this lol
It seems fable/starfield/avatar/Star Wars almost in parts
EDIT: looks like the topic is heating up right after I post this lol
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The battle scenes posted assuming their not prerendered* are definitely impressive and cgi like. The 3 shots you posted look like they could easily be done last gen is all I was saying.
*another poster claimed theres an interview in which the devs say they are prerendered with realtime characters in the forground. If so thats such a old school Squaresoft move.
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On lcds not on plasma and definitely not on the future microled tvs.
On tvs with ultra high motion resolution the artifacts are obvious and upscalers just exploit the shortcomings of shitty lcd tech.
When microleds become standard people are gonna have a hard time replaying games from the upscale generation
The first shot is pleasing the rest look awefull.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Maybe you don’t like character design but shot 2 looks incredible. The soft light is nuts
Is massive making both avatar and outlaws? How far away is outlaws? Would have to guess if it's the same team that's making avatar it can't be due next year. God help us if it doesn't look like the trailers, I really would have expected ubisoft to have learned by now but maybe it doesn't really have a negative impact on their sales.
I think you really mean just soft shadowing since Im not sure what soft lighting is outside of referring to a film "technique" also known as low key lighting which is just using a lower intensity setting from the lightsource and has zero effects on framerate and isnt some technical achievement. I love soft shadowing as well.
You really like this anime cgi style I think. That first shot looks like it could come from Final Fantasy Avent children so definitely cgi like but I wouldnt consider those results impressive coming from a 10TF machine.
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Schmendrick
Member
Uh, have you forgotten that we already got OLEDs and that they have that motion clarity you are talking about? And DLSS in the higher quality settings is absolutely fine on them, too (FSR often not so much...yet). Native resolution will not make a comeback unless we get a ridiculous performance surplus which is...well never happened before at least.
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We will have to agree to disagree. I personally dont like all the temporal artifacts. Others may find them acceptable.
On a similar note I feel like where entering a very blurry era in gaming as the old hacks are slowly being removed and replaced with a bunch of more advanced hacks that have a myriad of temporal issues that are getting stacked up on top of each other leaving more and more current games under a vasaline filter. I want to get back to that "HyperReal" peak era circa 2013 when rasterized games where so sharp that your eyes bleed.
We can all post a bunch of select shots that make a few games look like CGI at points. At the same time one can also take a bunch of select shots from FF16 to make it look decidedly last gen. Even from the shots you posted it's pretty evident how dull the lighting is and how it makes everything look very dark and not properly lit. I'm just not seeing anything here visually that's on par even the some games that were recently revealed or even HFW.
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Vroadstar
Member
Next?
Yes HFW definitely looks better when you are flying and I have not played yet Burning Shores. I imagine that Avatar sample is one of the best things they can show, and it still can't match HFW and let's not talk about when you are up in the clouds. Another thing, Avatar is a Ubisoft game so
most probably the Avatar visuals they released, you will see major downgrades just like they usually do.
Not sure about that. MicroLEDs are very similar to OLEDs in image quality (basically same as OLEds but non-organic) and I always see people confirm how console games look way better on OLEDs than on LCDs.
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Toots
Gold Member
They've done that a few times when last gen launched with Watch Dog being the most infamous example. Since they've received criticism for these debacles they have been very consistent when showcasing their games and I don't remember any example in the last few years where they've done anything like this. They could be up to their old tricks of course, but I'm pretty convinced what we saw is real based on the fact that both Avatar and Outlaws had enough visual blemishes to prove that they're work in progress builds that are very real.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I h
You cannot make a shot like the ones I posted in hfw no matter how hard you try. This is on another level.
So no. You can’t make a select shot look like cgi in most new games.
This game does something more.
Hfw looks amazing but at no point it looks like advent children or pre rendered. Tbh characters here look better than in advent children.
We can debate if it’s as good as I am pointing out or not but I am surprised there is not more debate on this. The game clearly does some stuff well and deserves some attention
I have plenty of shots like that from just a demo.
You cannot make a shot like the ones I posted in hfw no matter how hard you try. This is on another level.
So no. You can’t make a select shot look like cgi in most new games.
This game does something more.
Hfw looks amazing but at no point it looks like advent children or pre rendered. Tbh characters here look better than in advent children.
We can debate if it’s as good as I am pointing out or not but I am surprised there is not more debate on this. The game clearly does some stuff well and deserves some attention
The reason you don't see people talk about its graphics is because it ain't that impressive to enthusiasts except a few people. I remember people being highly critical of its visuals when first couple of trailers dropped. They have improved graphics since then and it's obvious to see, but to myself and others those last gen origins are too obvious to ignore.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
No. I think people dont realise how impressive it is because of how realistic the lighting is.
It’s not flashy like hfw. It does think subtle to such a high technical level that you stop noticing it because it’s so seamless.
It doesn’t have that video game look like impressive graphics in horizon.
The style is dull. You have to kinda know what you are looking at to appreciate it.
Really helps playing with hdr on oled too. Never looks flat… almost.
It's kinda funny because to me lighting is the weakest point in the game along with some flat looking NPCs. I remember
SlimySnake
saying something similar. Hey, beauty is the eye of the beholder and I guess it doesn't make too much sense for us to keep debating over this
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midnightAI
Member
At least we know this is real in game Avatar footage though (a few shadow pop-ins). to be honest, that Avatar flying section looks pretty bad in my opinion (especially compared to Horizon), but it is a game still in development so they can improve that side of things. My main worry is the game is just Far Cry with an Avatar skin.
Next?
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I don’t mind debating. It certainly doesn’t have this super high fidelity graphics pop like hfw…. But if you think about what you are looking at and that it’s real time, it blows my mind. It’s just not so evident with this art style.It's kinda funny because to me lighting is the weakest point in the game along with some flat looking NPCs. I remember
Ok I won’t beat the dead horse over here. I agree with you to disagree.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
I would argue the fog gives the scene depth. The mountains in Horizon look far away, wich translates to a certain perception of scale. In the SF shot, it looks like the dude is standing next to some hill, like he could throw a stone at the base of the mountain.
Remember how Bob Ross would always do layers to give depth and scale to his paintings.
I think the fog is doing just that. Its to translucent to really hide much of the pop in, which is taking place well before the fog even starts.
Edit: Avatar does it too, and it works there also. Not directed at you SlimySnake, its just the perfect illustration "pro fog" in here, some people where arguing that the fog in Horizon is a technical flaw.
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So it wasn't fake after all. Ubisoft double down on seamless planet to space traversal and it being the part of core gameplay. This is what next gen is about, not just impressive visuals.
gamingbolt.com
We all know that 20 or so seconds it takes to get from planet to space is just another loading screen, but it still gives an illusion of interconnected world. Bethesda really missed the mark with Starfield by not having this feature.
This is the next gen elevator ride loading screen we all wanted, lol.
Star Wars Outlaws Will Feature Completely Seamless Planet-to-Space Traversal
Players will be able to go from the surface of a planet and fly into space (and vice versa) without a single loading screen.
We all know that 20 or so seconds it takes to get from planet to space is just another loading screen, but it still gives an illusion of interconnected world. Bethesda really missed the mark with Starfield by not having this feature.
This is the next gen elevator ride loading screen we all wanted, lol.
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Msamy
Member
I think that burning shores is the maximum we can get from pre baked lighting game on the other hand RTGI , lumen or any other real time global illumination solution can drastically change the look of any game and that's the most important thing that next gen titles needs, to achieve impressive graphics..