Johnny Concrete
Member
Pinkachu?
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Pinkachu?
To be fair, I wasn’t super duper impressed by Starfield. Character models are awful, but it aint just Starfield, devs seem to be clueless when it comes to character models, NPCs etc. This is one area that HFW has nailed (there is room for improvement obviously but they look hella good in HFW).
Having said that, HFW absolutely does not look better than Avatar, heck it is not even on par with it bar the character models and maybe clouds which was GG’s main focus for over a year lol.
No idea how people think HFW looks better. This is a full on game which got patched up to oblivion topped by a DLC created for the PS5 based off of a complete game in HFW. Avatar on the other hand is a work in progress which will also receive patches and updates after it releases which will improve the game’s visuals as well as the performance.
The difference aint night and day mind you but imo Avatar looks better than HFW, and I thought it looked better than Star Wars.
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Crispy Gamer
Member
Yeah people really need to download the FF16 demo before judging it because at times it does give off cgi vibes it's just inconsistent but I'm impressed plus the combat is soo good
Gotta download it before they take it off PSN
Toots
Gold Member
Once burned, twice shy... I choose to take anything they show or say with a grain of salt, as much as you choose to believe them.
About their track record, i can't remember well also so i searched for the gameplay trailer Ubi put out for Far Cry 6
I don't even think PC with maxed settings looks that good. And we're talking about console games here... But you're right it is not as blatantly bullshotted as what they did in the past.
I hope they prove me wrong tho and both Avatar and STO are as beautiful on release as what they showed.
By the way i was only replying to this gem :
GymWolf
Gold Member
I think it looks better tham horizon, i don't know why you quoted me
Now for outlaws, i need to see more.
I was replying to you, we were talking about HFW so I gave my opinion on this whole HFW vs Avatar debacle that's been going on in the same post. Don't like it deal with it Mr. GymWolfI think it looks better tham horizon, i don't know why you quoted me
Now for outlaws, i need to see more.
I remember seeing the Far Cry 6 official reveal trailer below and I asked myself: when are we going to ever reach this level of graphical fidelity in real time, where graphics would look like that whilst actually playing the game?
Edit: things that also caught my eye in this trailer where the awesome facial animation and hair physics among obviously the whole gorgeous graphical fidelity of the entire thing!
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winjer
Member
On PC, it looks like that. Although that capture was probably done at 8K or something similar.
As far as Ubisoft bait and switch, FC6 is not the worst.
THIS. This is my main beef with videogames today, character rendering and models. It's the thing that devs cannot seem to find a solution for. Even the holy grail of graphics The Matrix demo suffered from it where the main character as well as the NPCs looked a gen or two behind compared to the rest of the game which made it inconsistent and stick out like a sore thumb.there's something about SF characters that makes them slightly unrealistic, I can't seem to put my finger on it though. I guess its the anatomy of the faces. no matter how many changes are made, they essentially look like they all share the same genetic features as their FO ancestors
Some more SF screens:
Some SWO screens:
(Ubisoft Bullshot ™)
No idea why it seems so difficult to create realistic-looking characters and NPCs, man. Yes HFW had amazing character models but even there you felt like they coulda made them look better, at least from my perspective. Avatar, SW, Starfield all those looked amazing but the characters looked a gen or two behind they felt out of place. I honestly would love to hear some people's thoughts on this, those who know a thing or two about this topic.
I just saw this video a couple days ago and there were some hilarious moments in it I legit laughed my ass off.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I would argue that if they have been beaten to market by other third party studios then they have already failed. They are a first party studio with an unlimited budget and resources, and their job is to be the first to market, the first to showcase the console and potential of next gen, and at that they have failed miserably.
3 years in and not even a glimpse of next gen? FAILURE. That same purple haired dev was crying to his twitter bubble after we called him out on not bothering to implement dodge, prone and enhanced melee in TLOU1. A year later, he's been shown up by ubisoft, bethesda and microsoft devs of all devs. He wasted 2 years of his time working on a last gen looking game while his boss was out there making tv shows about people picking strawberries.
Last gen ND had released that Uncharted 4 teaser 6 months after launch, 12 months after launch, they had released the gameplay segment, 18 months after launch, they showed that mind blowing chase sequence. Here we are, 30 months after launch, and nothing from them. Fail.
Yes, they will eventually get a game out that will look next gen but who cares? Assuming they show it off at next E3, add two years of dev time, and you are looking a 2026 release. The last full year of the gen. They have basically made themselves irrelevant.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
There are some scenes that look amazing but in gameplay and 99% of the cutscenes, im not seeing this pre-rendered CG praise. rofif said something about soft shadows and im like the character models look barely last gen, let alone next gen. You guys have to go back and play the FF7 remake to see what pre-rendered cutscenes look like. The hair rendering and faces look generations behind that CG in FF7 remake.
For some bizarre reason, Joshua (the young boy) looks the best. his hair rendering is top notch, and he gets the most detailed face while Clyve, his dad and his mom all get the most basic MMO faces.
Where the game excels are the insane setpiece moments which i honestly dont think can be done on last gen console for the sole reason that no one bothered to do it on the PS4. Not ND, Not SSM, not Rockstar and definitely not GG. But the rest? meh character models, meh lighting, meh textures and asset quality.
And I say this as someone who was blown away by this game's story and setpieces. I thought Zelda and Starfield were going to split GOTY awards this year, but this shit is so polished, so well written, told and acted that I am convinced this will by my GOTY. i have always wondered what an medieval story from ND would look like, and well this is it. It's crazy this came from Japanese devs, but i dont think it will win any graphics awards.
H . R . 2
Member
it IS a failure, I agree, but not on the part of the studio but Sony and Jim Ryan whose misguided priorities are nothing but a betrayal to hardcore gamers.
after all, ND has little alternative but to be at Jim's and the shareholders' beck and call
and it IS a failure if we consider development speed as the criterion for success
by that standard, Rockstar has already failed but, [even after all the controversy over its visuals, protagonists,etc.] people are still waiting, with eager anticipation for GTAVI reveal
hell, we waited an extra year for Starfield, a visually pleasant albeit simple-looking game but, it's not even out yet and everybody is already singing its praises
the time spent on TLOUp1 and Factions was a huge waste of time but
If ND pulls a ND and manages to catch that lightning in a bottle as they did with the first TLOU or even U4, no matter how long the development, their game will still amaze.
I am not in a rush because I didn't buy into this gen, but I completely understand why console owners are demanding haste.
I am really glad that people are excited about SWO and Avatar, but that orgasmic WOW moment has yet to happen for me,
partly due to the fact that even if these games manage to survive the downgrades, there is already nothing particularly next-gen about their visuals
that we haven't seen before in cross-gen games[ flyingin Avatar ->HBS, Orbital exit in SWO-> Star citizen], much less any groundbreaking gameplay innovations
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I think you are not seing it because it's not bombastic like HFW.
It's a subtle and technical look that makes the graphics "invisible" or something like that...
To the point it looks so good, you are kinda not paying attention to it.
I certainly did. My jaw was on the floor 90% of the demo
Anyway. Posting screenshots is ever a bad thing right? I will post of my highlights again and try to explain what makes them look so CGI to me. Do not confuse with realistic.
Benedikta here. Soft light and shadows on her face and neck. The fight is at night, so obviously moon is a very diffused light source. Obviously her smirk too.
When she does a close-up (sorry I had to grab this one of yt because I wasn't fast enough to grab it in-game), so it's sdr and macroblocing. I would need to finish the demo again to grab a good one but I noticed it when playing and then went looking on yt.
The craziest, previously absolutely unseen my be in any game with hints in HFW and Death stranding is the softness around the eyes. I mean that the transition from eye to eyesocket is seamless. There is no face ending and eyeball object beginning. This is absolutely spotless.
it could be pre-rendered but it's a short 3 seconds camera cut during the fight.
Sure, she does not have the MOST realistic looking face. She still kinda looks like an anime person but that's the point.
IMO it is absolutely crazy what we are seeing here. During a boss battle at that.
here is another night scene. Not a single seam or aliasing visible. Everything flows perfectly on her face. It is incredible.
The only parts making me feel it might be real time is the necklace trails (temporal aa) and tiniest bit of aliasing on right side of her hair)
The clothing is not the highest polycount but the shading and face is just mad. Again, the eyes are the highlight
Here, maybe it's AMAZING motion blur doing the work or the direction but the guy straight up looks like a movie lol.
Maybe it's the fact that his face is not overly too sharp to show every single pore. Maybe it's the way hair. Nothing sticks out.
I will be damned if it's not cgi.
This guy is not as good. But still pretty ok
This is the most normal video game looking one but still showcases fantastic dynamic light source
And this one. The most deceiving place in the demo. The swamps.
It is extremely difficult to make a murky swamp look anything but flat and dull. Especially with the diffused sky like they have.
And yet, there is this soft look throught the whole scene. It looks like a tech demo of a game that will get downgrade lol but it's an actual game.
you can still see soft light deforming on their clothes.
better in motion
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
We are not talking about the art style. They might look like dolls but cgi dolls lol.
EDIT: to be clear. They absolutely don't look like dolls...
GOB ON DEEZ NUTS
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mrqs
Member
I would say that, by the end of this generation, a NaughtyDog-level game could be just like 85% of this CG trailer. Hair physics and face capture will evolve a lot by the end of this gen.
PS6 is a safe bet.
Cr1ptkeeper
Member
So if I'm not mistaken the first UE5 game comes out tomorrow, Layers of fear.
The developers may not have the best track record for fun games but they always deliver when it comes to graphics.
Will buy it because I love horror and graphics.
The developers may not have the best track record for fun games but they always deliver when it comes to graphics.
Will buy it because I love horror and graphics.
GooseMan69
Member
ChiefDada
Gold Member
This mfer Gymwolf damn near made me choke on my sandwich lol! The goblins do look excellent though!
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It's insane. There are like 3-4 tracks I can't stop listening from demo alone.
And the way it goes into battle mode... not in the vid
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
With Neil literally becoming the co-president of ND, I dont have much sympathy for devs vs the big bad suit. Neil is the big bad suit now. Cory said that it was his decision to make GOW cross gen. Sony would not have gone against the wishes of their two big geniuses. They just got lazy.
As for Rockstar, I think the fact that its been 5 years since RDR2 came out without anything from Rockstar shows that they have failed. RDR2 was made in 5 years. Maybe GTA6 is the most ambitious game of all time, if its taking you that long to make a new game with 3,000 developers then maybe they need to reevaluate their game development methodology. Starfield was made with just 400 devs. Massive isnt a huge studio either. CD Project is a 500 person studio. Rockstar has everyone of its 7 studios and 3,000 employees work on one game a gen and they still cant get a single trailer released in 5 years? When is the game coming out? in 10 years?
I look at Bungie who last released a game in 2017. 6 years and one CG trailer. of a PVP game. Not even PvE. Its sad to see arguably the greatest FPS dev of all time completely abandon single player and any kind of ambition in the process. We still havent matched that Halo 2 E3 trailer they produced back in the day and looks like we never will.
And thats why you havent had that orgasmic WOW moment because the cream of the crop has failed you. Lets be honest Ubisoft Massive are B-tier devs compared to ND, Rockstar and Bungie.
P.S I think you should get a PS5 just for FF16. It gave me that wow moment despite the graphics being on the meh side. What they are doing with the scale and setpieces is quite frankly unlike anything i saw last gen. And if you like game of thrones then this is probably the best storytelling you will see in a video game this year based on the two hours i had with the 'demo'.
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Every kid and his grandmother are banking on ND to give them this Wow moment that we have not had so far this gen bar The Matrix demo. Let’s hope they don’t let us down (I don’t think they will).
Avatar, Star Wars among others gave us a glimpse of what these machines are capable of and while I been singing these two games’ praises they certainly did not provide me with this Wow moment that The Matrix demo for example provided me with.
Never played FF in my life but I just downloaded the demo to see what the fuss is all about. They should pay
rofif
for doing one helluva job marketing the game.Having said that, for someone who has never played the game ever before, do you mind elaborating on the part where you said they are doing things that you didn’t see last gen? What do you mean by set pieces in this regard? What’s different in the way they are doing things? I’m asking cuz I am new to the franchise and would love to keep a lookout on the things you mentioned.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I am not sure what it is. It just looks more seamless and smooth. Only Die Hardman looked close to that last gen. Maybe some parts of tlou2.Every kid and his grandmother are banking on ND to give them this Wow moment that we have not had so far this gen bar The Matrix demo. Let’s hope they don’t let us down (I don’t think they will).
Avatar, Star Wars among others gave us a glimpse of what these machines are capable of and while I been singing these two games’ praises they certainly did not provide me with this Wow moment that The Matrix demo for example provided me with.
Never played FF in my life but I just downloaded the demo to see what the fuss is all about. They should pay
Having said that, for someone who has never played the game ever before, do you mind elaborating on the part where you said they are doing things that you didn’t see last gen? What do you mean by set pieces in this regard? What’s different in the way they are doing things? I’m asking cuz I am new to the franchise and would love to keep a lookout on the things you mentioned.
Also, the camera switches instantly between events and other places. There is no loading, particle effects are crazy too.
But mostly it's that (I am getting tired of this) "cgi" look. This is Die-Hardman... and I think all of my screenshots look better than this guy and I have no idea what it is lol.
They don't look more detailed or realistic. They just look more offline rendered.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Honestly, play the demo and then we can discuss. The setpieces might be on rails and the big battles might be mostly realtime cutscenes, but its stuff you just dont see anymore.Never played FF in my life but I just downloaded the demo to see what the fuss is all about. They should pay
Having said that, for someone who has never played the game ever before, do you mind elaborating on the part where you said they are doing things that you didn’t see last gen? What do you mean by set pieces in this regard? What’s different in the way they are doing things? I’m asking cuz I am new to the franchise and would love to keep a lookout on the things you mentioned.
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
Yep it's a huge help to visuals by going with 30fps especially this gen with weaker than needed GPU's.
If your base game render costs 12ms then you only have 4ms for other effects when targeting 60fps. On the other hand you get 20ms instead of 4 for other effects with a 30fps target. That is a 4-5x leap in terms of visual boosts (depending on your base render cost). Ubisoft look to be doing an "Order 1886" and targeting 1080p like pixel numbers while also capping to a 30fps target which is why Star Wars Outlaws looks so impressive. Starfield is the same.
This is why I'm seriously considering switching to PC for the rest of this gen. You get all Xbox games, most PS5 games and at this stage I'm 99% expecting that all Nanite + Lumen UE5 AAA games will be 30fps on console with reduced Lumen quality for RTGI.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Never played FF in my life but I just downloaded the demo to see what the fuss is all about. They should pay
Having said that, for someone who has never played the game ever before, do you mind elaborating on the part where you said they are doing things that you didn’t see last gen? What do you mean by set pieces in this regard? What’s different in the way they are doing things? I’m asking cuz I am new to the franchise and would love to keep a lookout on the things you mentioned.
The intro cutscene is probably the most visually impactful. Take note of the Titan rendering especially during close up. When I saw this my mind immediately made me think of Transformers movie. There are also shots in that same sequence that show nanite-like geometry, and the battle scene looked straight up CG with fantastic animation of the soldiers. Someone in another thread said it reminded them of playing MGS4 on PS3. I agree with that analogy. It's not perfect, but it's a spectacle with very high production value.
sendit
Member
Nothing about the FF16 demo gave off CGI vibes. It screamed PS4 gen.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
According to DF, Avatar is using 4k FSR Quality so 1440p internal resolution. Might be lower or might just be FSR artifacts, but both John and Alex did separate counts and arrived at the internal 1440p figure.
Color me impressed, i thought this was 1080p max considering the visual fidelity and their extensive use of RTGI on a AMD GPU.
I am not really concerned that it will be too heavily downgraded after showing PS5 footage this close to launch. Its already got a downgrade from the original trailer. PS5 can definitely do these graphics without any major downgrades.
Color me impressed, i thought this was 1080p max considering the visual fidelity and their extensive use of RTGI on a AMD GPU.
I am not really concerned that it will be too heavily downgraded after showing PS5 footage this close to launch. Its already got a downgrade from the original trailer. PS5 can definitely do these graphics without any major downgrades.
GymWolf
Gold Member
The eikon battle is cool but i didn't liked the close up textures on the titan, they still looked plasticky\fake\low res, like the venom suit in spidey 2.
I should made a big post on how devs still don't get monsters skin\scales\organic material right in any game, a dragon on ps5 look like a dragon on ps4, just compare the textures on gow2018 dragon boss and demons remake blue dragon, they are virtually identical.
Avatar suffer from the same flaw, when they show a close up of that big alien creature the textures are just meh.
I fucking love hyper detailed cretures so i probably notice this more than most.
I should made a big post on how devs still don't get monsters skin\scales\organic material right in any game, a dragon on ps5 look like a dragon on ps4, just compare the textures on gow2018 dragon boss and demons remake blue dragon, they are virtually identical.
Avatar suffer from the same flaw, when they show a close up of that big alien creature the textures are just meh.
I fucking love hyper detailed cretures so i probably notice this more than most.
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H . R . 2
Member
believe it or not I have never played a FF game but I have finished all DMC games multiple times
FF16 seems to be more in line with my hack-and-slash interests. thanks will give it a try
on a side note, despite FF looking great and everyone praising its setpieces, I think I am going to reserve my judgment about the visuals until DF's tech review of the game comes out.
what you and the others have been describing sounds a lot like pre-rendered cutscenes in disguise.
since there's no way to determine whether they are indeed pre-rendered or not I guess we'll have to wait for the PC release to play around with the settings then and see for ourselves.
Capcom pulled a similar thing with RE2, 7 and 4 where, I believe, the opening cutscenes were pre-rendered at 60fps. the difference between the 60fps flashback cutscenes at the beginning of both RE4 and 7 was quite jarring.
I might be wrong but those opening cutscenes, unlike their in-game counterparts, were silky smooth 60fps.
H . R . 2
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think thats the thing that impressed me the most. The big battle scene started off as realtime and if it switched to pre-rendered, i couldnt tell. I really really hope they let us go take part in that battle. I would be disappointed if it turned out to be a tease.
the setpieces are definitely realtime though.
The Titan looked sick.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I still think there is a big margin of improvement but it surely looks better than this thing
GymWolf
Gold Member
Sure, if you ignore all the low res stuff on him
Like i said, devs still don't get creatures organic armour\materials right at all.
Jimbo actually managed to lower your standards finally.
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H . R . 2
Member
if they really let Snowdrop loose, like they did with The Division reveal trailer, it will be one of the most visually astonishing games ever.
I still have very fond memories of The Division. the first snow storm, the sewage system, the dark zone, the extremely grounded and realistic-looking buildings and districts.
the lighting in that game remained a cut above everything else for years
Far Cry looks as good as they showed on PC running at max settings, can confirm that.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol you guys have standards that are way too high. even for me. Here I am finally being blown way by graphics, and they are still not good enough for you lolSure, if you ignore all the low res stuff on him
Like i said, devs still don't get creatures organic armour\materials right at all.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
There is nothing to compare thus guy to in reality lol.Sure, if you ignore all the low res stuff on him
Like i said, devs still don't get creatures organic armour\materials right at all.
Jimbo actually managed to lower your standards finally.
And I am pretty sure this part is pre-rendered anyway so the way he looks is a stylistic choice
GymWolf
Gold Member
So having high res textures and better materials on something so prominent is asking the moon but matrix demo that lack many elements of a real game being possible on ps5 is A-ok.
Saitama ok .gif
I just care more than you about textures, this is probably why i wasn't overly impressed by outlaws like you.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
We still have yet to see faces that surpass TLOU 2 imo, other than TLOU Part 1.
I am truly fucking hyped for ND's next SP game.
I am truly fucking hyped for ND's next SP game.
GymWolf
Gold Member
The fact that he is prerendered and not real time make even worse the fact that he has low res shit all around him, he should look fucking pristine when the console only hase to render a cinematic where they can pump the graphic.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
he cannot look out of place compared to other stuff. He must look right in all the shots.
besides, the game is not going for crazy detailed look. I personally think he looks great so not sure where you are coming from.
It's getting kinda silly
H . R . 2
Member
I guess the disparity would be noticeable in-game and would thus be too jarring for many
Japanese devs usually use the same assets in pre-rendered cutscenes as in-game ones.
I have noticed they are not easily embarrassed by low-res textures or their camera angles showing all the weak spots.
they almost always go for that dramatic effect no matter the cost
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GymWolf
Gold Member
If you admit that the game is not going for crazy detailed look why you are surprised if someone notice the low details in something so prominent where they decided to zoom on his face so much??
This is the graphic topic if you haven't noticed yet, people is gonna bitch about graphic.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It's not low res and it's not hyperdetailed.
Not hyperdetailed =/= bad graphics.
Besides what are you expecting?! Rock titan to have pores and facial hair ?! This is all purely an art stuff
GymWolf
Gold Member
I'm not saying that you don't have to like it, i just thought that nextgen would also bring less plasticky textures on these type of monsters.
I have a particular fetish for creatures and monsters.