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[SlimySnake]

Looking at SM2 I wouldn't hold my breath.

Nah, I was warning you guys about insomniac last year. they are just different. They have no ambition to be the best sony studio. There is a reason why they were bought for just $220 million. GG on the other hand produced the best looking game of the gen despite being held back by last gen hardware and they will hold that crown until avatar launches in december or early next year. just look at how they smartly managed to extract so much more out of the base PS4. Used VRS and 900p resolution to reduce the GPU load on rendering pixels and used the extra horsepower to get interactive foliage, way better lighting and character models, among a host of other improvements from the first game. SSM didnt bother doing that. Insomniac seems to have settled for better hair during cutscenes and ray traced reflections, but nothing else.

Having said all that in defense of GG, there are some really troubling recent developments. GG said that they have 16 SIXTEEN Horizon projects in the works including an MP game. They are spreading themselves too thin just like insomniac. But thats not even the worst part, they said they want to put coop in the next Horizon sp game. To me, that is a recipe for disaster because GG themselves said that they cut coop from HZD because it was making the game look like shit. Maybe the CPU bottleneck is letting them push visuals while having two players but this is not a good look. Avatar also supports coop so hopefully the visuals wont take a massive hit.

 

[H . R . 2]

I dont think Avatar started out as a last gen title in late 2017 because they specifically listed these following things that could only be possible on next gen hardware. They need SSD for faster flying, for denser enviornments, and the CPU for destruction and NPC behavior. If anything, this is the reason why im not so worried about the downgrade because even if the visuals are downgraded, the core next gen-ness of the engine and its features will shine through.









Lets say they downgrade the last part. No more ray traced foliage. or RT shadows in the distant hills. as long as NPC animal destruction, faster flying speeds, reduced pop-in, and dense environments are still in, i will be happy. And probably why I am so forgiving to Avatar and Starfield. Avatar and Starfield are doing things that explain why there is a potential of downgrade. They had their hearts in the right place back in 2017 and chose to target next gen specs while GG and others just limited themselves to PS4. I admire the risks these third party devs took when first party devs did not. if they fail then so be it. Id rather they try and fail then simply punt the first few year of the gen with last gen games.

As myamoto once said, a flawed next gen game might still be ambitious. A cross gen game is last gen forever.

Why Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora Had to Be a Next-Gen Only Game - IGN

Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora will be Ubisoft's first new-gen-only game – we spoke to its developers to find out why it demands next-gen hardware to run.

www.ign.com

That said, i will concede that there is a possibility of a downgrade and I will be very disappointed if they downgrade the PC version as well as the PS5 version since thats the version i will be buying.

I hope you're right but
the flying mechanic can easily be scaled back. there were some rather wild pop-ins in the trailer.
also, I distinctly remember you were complaining about how HBS flying was much slower than expected, even though it was a current-gen-only game where the SSD was firing on all cylinders
as for enemy AI we haven't seen anything yet which might not be worrying per se, but I wasn't expecting it to be anything mindblowing or warranting a downgrade in the first place, it will likely be only as good as FC6 at best.

 

[H . R . 2]

Having said all that in defense of GG, there are some really troubling recent developments. GG said that they have 16 SIXTEEN Horizon projects in the works including an MP game. They are spreading themselves too thin just like insomniac.

“If we can't stop the cost curve from going up, all we can do is try to de-risk it, That puts you in a place where you're incentivised toward sequels.”
Shawn Layden

 

[SlimySnake]

I hope you're right but
the flying mechanic can easily be scaled back. there were some rather wild pop-ins in the trailer.
also, I distinctly remember you were complaining about how HBS flying was much slower than expected, even though it was a current-gen-only game where the SSD was firing on all cylinders
as for enemy AI we haven't seen anything yet which might not be worrying per se, but I wasn't expecting it to be anything mindblowing or warranting a downgrade in the first place, it will likely be only as good as FC6 at best.

The HBS flying speeds were awful but thats because they didnt upgrade the streaming tech to account for the pS5 IO and SSD. its still a PS4 game underneath. The pop-in even at gliding speeds was absolutely horrendous. I dont think i have ever seen a game with worse pop-in.

“If we can't stop the cost curve from going up, all we can do is try to de-risk it, That puts you in a place where you're incentivised toward sequels.”
Shawn Layden

Shawn was ahead of the curve. Too bad Jimbo forced him out.

 

[OCASM]

Nah, I was warning you guys about insomniac last year. they are just different. They have no ambition to be the best sony studio. There is a reason why they were bought for just $220 million. GG on the other hand produced the best looking game of the gen despite being held back by last gen hardware and they will hold that crown until avatar launches in december or early next year. just look at how they smartly managed to extract so much more out of the base PS4. Used VRS and 900p resolution to reduce the GPU load on rendering pixels and used the extra horsepower to get interactive foliage, way better lighting and character models, among a host of other improvements from the first game. SSM didnt bother doing that. Insomniac seems to have settled for better hair during cutscenes and ray traced reflections, but nothing else.

Having said all that in defense of GG, there are some really troubling recent developments. GG said that they have 16 SIXTEEN Horizon projects in the works including an MP game. They are spreading themselves too thin just like insomniac. But thats not even the worst part, they said they want to put coop in the next Horizon sp game. To me, that is a recipe for disaster because GG themselves said that they cut coop from HZD because it was making the game look like shit. Maybe the CPU bottleneck is letting them push visuals while having two players but this is not a good look. Avatar also supports coop so hopefully the visuals wont take a massive hit.

The problem is the same as with other devs: will they make a new engine that fully utilizes the new hardware or will they simply improve their previous one? I'm betting on the latter.

 

[ChiefDada]

The problem is the same as with other devs: will they make a new engine that fully utilizes the new hardware or will they simply improve their previous one? I'm betting on the latter.

Make a new engine? Are you guys ok?

 

[alloush]

it is
but it is by no means visually inferior, especially when you take its cross-gen limitations into account.
it is a game that came out a year ago and a current-gen only game like Avatar is naturally expected to take things up a notch visually and look better.
also, Avatar has aimed for a look closer to that of the movies and is therefore quite different in its style. HFW visuals are a stylistic choice. otherwise, you can see GG's strides towards photorealism in the lighting system, the realistic character models, and the game's world simulations
I think we should wait for GG's next, current-gen-only game before making comparisons with Avatar.

Oh it is not a knock on HFW’s visuals that game looks fire and I know it is a stylistic choice but compared to Avatar it does look a bit last gen but kudos to GG for even putting out those visuals for a cross gen game. Cannot wait to see their next-gen only game on an upgraded Decima engine.

Horizon 3 fully ps5 (and ps6 of course) is gonna wipe its ass with avatar.

Gee, a game that’s likely 5 years away from releasing and might even release on the PS6 is gonna wipe the floor with Avatar a game coming out at the end of the year

 

[SlimySnake]

The problem is the same as with other devs: will they make a new engine that fully utilizes the new hardware or will they simply improve their previous one? I'm betting on the latter.

UE5 builds upon UE4. You dont need to start from scratch but they definitely need to substantially upgrade their engine to support Dynamic GI and primitive shaders.

 

[ChiefDada]

 

[OCASM]

Make a new engine? Are you guys ok?

It's what first parties have done every single gen except for this one.

UE5 builds upon UE4. You dont need to start from scratch but they definitely need to substantially upgrade their engine to support Dynamic GI and primitive shaders.

It started from UE4 which was a complete rewrite to the point of incompatibility with UE3. Also, not the best example considering its absolutely terrible CPU utilization.

 

[shamoomoo]

To be fair, climbing and melee combat in the ac games is like 100x better and less clunky than climbing and melee fighting in forbidden west, it's not like guerrilla doesn't have some shit gameplay in their games.

I know that because i was one of the few stupid cunts who beated fw with a melee build...

You

I cannot believe how people are not seeing how cartoonish HFW actually looks in comparison with Avatar. I always thought HFW looked nice but in tandem with Avatar it looks a bit cartoony and it’s weird people are not seeing that.

Wow? That looks remarkable close to that promo pic of a similar area.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Nah, I was warning you guys about insomniac last year. they are just different. They have no ambition to be the best sony studio. There is a reason why they were bought for just $220 million. GG on the other hand produced the best looking game of the gen despite being held back by last gen hardware and they will hold that crown until avatar launches in december or early next year. just look at how they smartly managed to extract so much more out of the base PS4. Used VRS and 900p resolution to reduce the GPU load on rendering pixels and used the extra horsepower to get interactive foliage, way better lighting and character models, among a host of other improvements from the first game. SSM didnt bother doing that. Insomniac seems to have settled for better hair during cutscenes and ray traced reflections, but nothing else.

Having said all that in defense of GG, there are some really troubling recent developments. GG said that they have 16 SIXTEEN Horizon projects in the works including an MP game. They are spreading themselves too thin just like insomniac. But thats not even the worst part, they said they want to put coop in the next Horizon sp game. To me, that is a recipe for disaster because GG themselves said that they cut coop from HZD because it was making the game look like shit. Maybe the CPU bottleneck is letting them push visuals while having two players but this is not a good look. Avatar also supports coop so hopefully the visuals wont take a massive hit.

Slimy calling it early again! I can just see it now .. not just you being correct about this but thr fanboys defending the visuals because "the world is twice the size of FW now; plus, its coop now what do you expect?"

With Sony's push for multiplayer and Herman Hulst and his close ties to GG, yeah, what are the chances Horizon 3 comes out of this unscathed?

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Lol tell me about it, i just had a fight about that.

Yeah, let's spread our medium sized team into 3 projects, why the hell not...

Jim Ryan and Herman Hulst

 

[ChiefDada]

Wow? That looks remarkable close to that promo pic of a similar area.

The usual suspects will conveniently forget their doubts of it being actual gameplay and move on to the next conspiracy theory.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

This thread's logic:


WOW, SO NEXT GEN!

MEH, PS4 GAME:

Keep it up, goofballs! It's hilarious!

You could've swapped a pic from Miles Morales there and nobody would be the wiser for it. That is the issue. Just like with LoU Part 1 which you also thought looked nect gen at the time. These "powerhouse" Sony studios are not upgrading their games despite being so called PS5 exclusives!

Spidey 2 doesn't look bad and nobody is arguing that. It should be a hell of a lot better than this. Assuming Avatar doesnt get downgraded (i have a sinking feeling RT gi will be removed or nerfed-at which point gaslighting will commence but thats a diff topic), but at least right now Avatar has far more advanced lighting than Spidey or ANY Sony title released this gen.

Sony is not the Sony we used to know anymore. They're not giving us the graphics PS5 owners deserve. Theyre not upgrading their engines to have more advanced global illumination, something that is desperately needed. They're reusing assets like nobody's business. The only thing next gen from Sony this gen is their marketing. I expect better from them. I've been in this hobby for too long to not see the way Sony's been cashing it in this gen.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

That GIF looks like it could be from Miles Morales and nobody would think otherwise (except the fact that it's not taking place in winter of course). I mean we can all agree the game looks better than MM, but it's more of an upgrade you'd see on the same system when going from early gen to late gen, not a game on a whole different console.

Some parts look worse in the Spiderman 2 trailers, like the skin rendering on character faces and lack of SSS.

 

[Robbinhood]

That green Aloy outfit is lit as fuck. How come I never got it.

 

[ChiefDada]

You could've swapped a pic from Miles Morales there and nobody would be the wiser for it. That is the issue. Just like with LoU Part 1 which you also thought looked nect gen at the time. These "powerhouse" Sony studios are not upgrading their games despite being so called PS5 exclusives!

Which Miles Morales?

PS4 version?

or Native PS5 version?

 

[ChiefDada]

Spidey 2 doesn't look bad and nobody is arguing that. It should be a hell of a lot better than this. Assuming Avatar doesnt get downgraded (i have a sinking feeling RT gi will be removed or nerfed-at which point gaslighting will commence but thats a diff topic), but at least right now Avatar has far more advanced lighting than Spidey or ANY Sony title released this gen.

You're so right. The advanced lighting is out of this world! What the hell was I thinking? My bad y'all.

Spoiler

 

[Represent.]

This looks pretty hot. They need to show more of this.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Which Miles Morales?

PS4 version?

or Native PS5 version?

MM on PS5 is one of the best looking games ever created IMO…

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

 

[Represent.]

Avatar could never

 

[DuduIsDisappointed]

Putting nextgen games to shame.

 

[SlimySnake]

Avatar could never

Did you actually play this game? Because if you did you would know that there is nothing to fucking do up there. They might as well be prerendered backgrounds.

Hell, i played zelda totk immediately after and i was much more impressed with their sky islands. There is actual gameplay there. You go from island to island either by flying or jumping or riding rails. They feel like actual levels. Same thing would be true for avatar which has floating islands.

What horizon is doing with their cloud system is very impressive but it’s just a shame they forgot to actually create a video game with it.

Sony is not the Sony we used to know anymore. They're not giving us the graphics PS5 owners deserve. Theyre not upgrading their engines to have more advanced global illumination, something that is desperately needed. They're reusing assets like nobody's business. The only thing next gen from Sony this gen is their marketing. I expect better from them. I've been in this hobby for too long to not see the way Sony's been cashing it in this gen.

See above. I hated zelda botw, but nintendo took their time and in six years not only fixed every issue i had with the game but reinvented the entire formula. half of the game is set in the same damn map but it feels fresh and new when other games that took five years to make like hfw, gow, and spiderman 2 feel iterative. To me, the lack of a graphics upgrade is just a symptom of a much larger problem. The real problem is that they are no longer being ambitious enough. the finale in zelda is an awe-inspiring spectacle that is far more impressive than lazily soaring over the clouds. there are actual physics in play. the scale is epic. they make you use actual gameplay systems during the finale instead of just making it a cutscene or a QTE.

FF16 has similar moments of ingenuity that ND and SSM used to capture so flawlessly just a few years ago. The problem is CBU3 is no Naughty Dog and they screwed up the pacing by making it an MMO lite game. Which is why having ND, SSM, GG and Insmoniac simply phone in the first few years is so damn disappointing. we wont see true next gen games from these guys until 2026 at the latest. Which also means no one doing anything original with animations until ND decides to release their next game.

MM on PS5 is one of the best looking games ever created IMO…

I just went through the first three pages of this thread and no one even mentioned Spiderman Miles in the same breath as Graphics Fidelity we expected this gen. Crazy that 2 years later, our standards have fallen so much.

 

[Rheon]

I just started playing HFW yesterday and wow... it's a LOT more impressive seeing it live in 4K HDR.

I've never seen anything like it in my entire life.

 

[Schmendrick]

Crazy that 2 years later, our standards have fallen so much.

Nah, don`t fret.
It´s literally just one guy wo couldn`t accept the disappointment and decided to live in bizarro world instead..

 

[GymWolf]

Nah, don`t fret.
It´s literally just one guy wo couldn`t accept the disappointment and decided to live in bizarro world instead..

LOl why the black bar tho?

 

[alloush]

Nah, don`t fret.
It´s literally just one guy wo couldn`t accept the disappointment and decided to live in bizarro world instead..

Cannot tell who you talking about from the picture you posted but I have a feeling you talking about ChiefDada

 

[Schmendrick]

Yes, i know i'm myself but what about you?l

LOl why the black bar tho?

bc we`re not pointing fingers here. tsk tsk tsk

 

[Edder1]

LOl why the black bar tho?

Because he can't see good graphics, he just uses his intuition. That's the only way one can proclaim TLOU Part 1 and SM2 to be the best looking games.

 

[mrMUR_96]

Just like i expected, some great looking scenes but mostly average like the other trailer. And WTF happend to Venom, he looks like fucking Craig man holly shit those PS3 quality textures




And outside some small scenes it doesn't look better than MM or the remaster, but i noticed that the iq has taking a big hit. Mostly on the eyebrows and here and other things like the venom arms have lots of rough edges.

And the low quality Spiderman Venom suite is still low res

Omg the chest/stomach hair on this looks absolutely terrible.

 

[Musilla]

This thread is now pure surrealism

 

[CGNoire]

LOl why the black bar tho?

Because he is blind.

 

[Represent.]

Been reading the last few pages like 'WTF is going on here !?.' This place is a battlefield lmao.

Best thread on the forum

I just started playing HFW yesterday and wow... it's a LOT more impressive seeing it live in 4K HDR.

I've never seen anything like it in my entire life.

Now try the Burning Shores DLC for the real mind fuck

 

[Represent.]

Did you actually play this game? Because if you did you would know that there is nothing to fucking do up there. They might as well be prerendered backgrounds.

Hell, i played zelda totk immediately after and i was much more impressed with their sky islands. There is actual gameplay there. You go from island to island either by flying or jumping or riding rails. They feel like actual levels. Same thing would be true for avatar which has floating islands.

What horizon is doing with their cloud system is very impressive but it’s just a shame they forgot to actually create a video game with it.

Now I agree it could have used more gameplay features but I couldn’t be too mad, I did t expect all that in a 20 dollar DLC. I’m talking purely graphical fidelity. It’s a stunning achievement.

These clouds, I look at them as a test run for Horizon 3. If that game doesn’t add a gameplay element to them then sure, riot. But for a cheap dlc, Im cool with it

 

[ChiefDada]

Did you actually play this game? Because if you did you would know that there is nothing to fucking do up there. They might as well be prerendered backgrounds.

Boy oh boy, we are now rating graphics based on their utility??? Incredible. If there is no direct tie-in to gameplay, then nice visuals might as well be prerendered, Slimy says. You should be excommunicated from this thread for uttering such nonsense. Rofif and I will convene and notify you of our final decision (subject to ResetEraVIP's blessings of course).

The real question is, what the heck is there to do in this ugly, barren wasteland???

 

[SlimySnake]

Because he is blind.

I am dying here.

Because he can't see good graphics, he just uses his intuition. That's the only way one can proclaim TLOU Part 1 and SM2 to be the best looking games.

 

[mrMUR_96]

Am I trippin or does Uncharted 4 have better character models?

Someone get a gif of drake at the auction scene and compare it to Peter with the entree platter

Literally my first thought from that scene. Pretty sure U4 looked better, would like a direct comparison shot.

 

[SlimySnake]

Literally my first thought from that scene. Pretty sure U4 looked better, would like a direct comparison shot.

I did a comparison just a few days ago. Plenty of games have better character models and yes, uncharted is another league.

MJ seems to have gotten the biggest leap mostly thanks to her next gen hair. Harry and Peter look extremely underwhelming even compared to a last gen game.

 

[Represent.]

We have people on this forum praising FROM Software for these ugly ass, PS3 era graphics.

As long as devs think this is good enough (thanks to low standards by fans), the majority of them wont ever show any ambition or desire to push fidelity anymore.

We're fucked.

 

[Turk1993]

I did a comparison just a few days ago. Plenty of games have better character models and yes, uncharted is another league.

MJ seems to have gotten the biggest leap mostly thanks to her next gen hair. Harry and Peter look extremely underwhelming even compared to a last gen game.

Nah man, i agreed with most thing regarding to SM2 but the character models in SM1R and MM where better than most games you mentioned. They are really good detailed and have a really good SSS.

Look at the ingame model

 

[SlimySnake]

Nah man, i agreed with most thing regarding to SM2 but the character models in SM1R and MM where better than most games you mentioned. They are really good detailed and have a really good SSS.

Look at the ingame model

it's probably their cartoony artstyle. I just dont think Harry and Peter look that great compared to even Drake in U4, let alone Ellie in the last of us.

 

[SlimySnake]

We have people on this forum praising FROM Software for these ugly ass, PS3 era graphics.
As long as devs think this is good enough (thanks to low standards by fans), the majority of them wont ever show any ambition or desire to push fidelity anymore.

Yet you were doing the same thing all day yesterday while downplaying devs who actually targeted next gen hardware. lol

 

[Represent.]

Yet you were doing the same thing all day yesterday while downplaying devs who actually targeted next gen hardware. lol

...Burning Shores is not a PS3 era looking game
And all I was saying is no Ubisoft game is part of the "fantastic 4" until said game is out. I dont give a damn what they are targeting if they don't hit the target lol.

 

[SlimySnake]

...Burning Shores is not a PS3 era looking game
And all I was saying is no Ubisoft game is part of the "fantastic 4" until said game is out. I dont give a damn what they are targeting if they don't hit the target lol.

PS3. PS4. Same difference. This is a thread about current gen fidelity so PS4 games wont do. I also think HFW is the best looking game this gen but im not blind to its shortcomings.

 

[OCASM]

We have people on this forum praising FROM Software for these ugly ass, PS3 era graphics.

As long as devs think this is good enough (thanks to low standards by fans), the majority of them wont ever show any ambition or desire to push fidelity anymore.

We're fucked.

Yep another cross-gen game that looks nothing special even if it was a PS4 exclusive.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yep another cross-gen game that looks nothing special even if it was a PS4 exclusive.

From has finally added a 120 fps option on PC with this game. So that one dude who was arguing that 60 fps makes games next gen should be happy that hes now getting a PS6 game from FromSoft.

 

[walter568]

I wonder if in this thread you arn't confusing graphic quality with technical quality...
This captures of Spiderman seems to me boring as hell, the banality of the real.
Elden Ring or ArmoredCore 6 have a setting , a Artistic Direction, a sense of scale that excites me more than an HFW or Spiderman.
HFW is a kind of Blockbuster calibrated for the American public, devoid of spirit and with less consistent cultural references than an ER.
It's my taste and my humble opinion.
Although I would love to work on a game like HFW (I do professional warping).
ER is the game that has artistically impressed me the most in my gaming life. (and also a game full of cultural european references)

 

[SlimySnake]

While its disappointing that Remnant 2 doesnt use Lumens and ends up looking rather average due to its lighting, I am loving the high quality assets we are seeing here. Likely thanks to their Nanite usage. Everything feels like an actual model instead of just a painted on textures. Walls, pipes, even the ground feels tessellated. This is the kind of stuff completely missing from FF16 which has this very glued on/painted on look to all its ingame assets.



Sadly it comes at a cost and the game runs at 1296p at 30 fps even without Lumens. I wonder if nanite is whats CPU bound in UE5. This is the first real game using UE5 and its coming under 1440p which they said was their target for consoles.