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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Alright. Now that the downplaying of Avatar has finally died down, lets now commence the Starfield is last gen discussion.... From the same users who brought you 'FF16 is next gen due to its scale and scope despite its last gen visuals'.
Next week, we will discuss how Star Wars outlaws is last gen because spiderman has better hair rendering.
Next week, we will discuss how Star Wars outlaws is last gen because spiderman has better hair rendering.
TheRedRiders
Member
Starfield looks good considering its scale and ambition, but to consider it top graphically is beyond my understanding
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Starfield's next gen-ness comes from its scale and scope. Anyone who watched the Starfield direct knows just how ambitious that game is compared to other AAA games like Horizon FW or Spiderman.
Visually, its doing somethings better than horizon like draw distance and lighting in most conditions, while clearly lagging behind in character models and animations.
That said, it's still a stunning looking game made by a studio not known for their graphics. The fact that its even in the conversation with the best looking game of all time is an accomplishment. Especially considering everything else they are doing under the hood with physics, gravity and other bethesda specific ingame simulations.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
At the very least, SP2 will destroy that shit in real-time cutscenes and facial animations.
Starfield's greatness comes from scope and I think the lighting looks pretty great
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
But can we be honest with ourselves?
Does "bigger than anything else ever", and "scale and scope" really excite anyone anymore? Especially us in this thread?
Nowadays, I shudder when I hear "its our biggest game ever, 15 times the size of our previous map!"
If GTA 6 comes out and their main selling point is "its absolutely huge, biiger than any GTA map ever!" I will lose hype.
Give me that next gen interaction, more buildings to enter, and detail, let the city feel alive, more so than any game before it. If it has to be a much smaller map then so be it.
Does "bigger than anything else ever", and "scale and scope" really excite anyone anymore? Especially us in this thread?
Nowadays, I shudder when I hear "its our biggest game ever, 15 times the size of our previous map!"
If GTA 6 comes out and their main selling point is "its absolutely huge, biiger than any GTA map ever!" I will lose hype.
Give me that next gen interaction, more buildings to enter, and detail, let the city feel alive, more so than any game before it. If it has to be a much smaller map then so be it.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I suggest you watch Starfield direct. Having 1000 planets to explore is only one of marketing bullet points. They are doing so much more.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Who let jimbo get out of its cage?
GymWolf
Gold Member
Dude you were jerking off on ff16 aswell, i was the only one realistic in here about that game...
GymWolf
Gold Member
Like what?
You don't have full freedom when you are in space, you chose what planet to land from a menu and you entering or exiting the planet is not even in real time.
Interaction with the scenery seems at an all time low, i swear i didn't see a single breakable object in the entire deep dive except a red explosive barrel, it's gonna be fun when horizon 1 is gonna have more destructible thing in the map after getting trolled for how static it is...
Combat doesn't do anything new, zero g combat is not a novelty anymore, nor space magic lol.
Hoarding sandwiches was possible on fucking oblivion on ps3.
Space combat is not a novelty neither, never was really, same for crafting a base or spaceship personalization, a spaceship that looks like mazinga IS NOT NEXTGEN, i can put make up on my balls, it doesn't mean that my dick is ready for broadway...
I'm still waiting for this 10 examples of full nextgen gameplay but nobody seems to know the fucking answer.
Is it the light system that is not even in the same universe as a real advanced rtx light system like dl2 or cyberpunk?
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arkhamguy123
Member
I have even worse news for you…
I completely disagree and reject your opinion there
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yes it is. The game is realtime dynamic GI. Who gives a shit if its not ray traced like cybperunk when its realtime. Name one last gen open world game that has dynamic GI.
You cant say name ten next gen things its doing then preemptively list them yourself and declare they arent next gen. I dont know how you can play Fallout 4 and then look at this game and say hey its not next gen. Its a massive leap in visual fidelity. A generational leap in both visual fidelity and scope. Something you cant say about Spiderman 2, GOW, Halo Infinite, and 99% of the other games released so far this gen.
No idea why you are downplaying the physics based gravity effects that affect both combat AND gameplay traversal since every planet has different gravity properties. Besides, just like with FF16's big boss fights and setpieces, we have left stuff like that behind in the PS3 gen. No open world game last gen did anything like this. Horizon, RDR2, AC, Ghost of Tsushima, all just focused on pushing visual fidelity instead of systems. There is a reason why this game is cpu bound even on next gen consoles and its not because its poorly optimized like Star Wars Survivor. They are actually using the fucking thing.
Andromeda is the closest game to Starfield last gen and it had no space combat. Last gen, you either had space combat games or ground combat game. Even Destiny never bothered adding it. To me, thats THE definition of 'scope'. This game is doing stuff that is full on RPG on the ground while doing all this extra shit you maybe see in linear games like CoD Infinite Warfare. Which is why the upcoming Star Wars outlaws doing both is so darn impressive. Which btw, doesnt let you select where to land either. Who cares lol.
How can you look at this gif and not immediately be impressed by the scope of this game?
Yeah, but Im consistent. I am able to separate visuals from gameplay. As long as the dev is doing something we didnt see last gen, I am ok with sacrificing visuals for it. Thats why I sing Zelda ToTK's praises as well as FF16 and Starfield. Problem with Spiderman2 is that they arent doing anything next gen with the gameplay systems either.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Found these while looking for Starfield gifs. Xbox fans must be doing some fancy algorithm massaging for these to come up alongside searches for another Xbox exclusive lol.
This is Naughty Dog quality stuff from Ninja Theory. Ive been a big fan of them since heavenly sword. Even like enslaved and DmC. Really hope they get their dues next year when this become the defacto next gen showpiece when it launches.
This is Naughty Dog quality stuff from Ninja Theory. Ive been a big fan of them since heavenly sword. Even like enslaved and DmC. Really hope they get their dues next year when this become the defacto next gen showpiece when it launches.
GymWolf
Gold Member
The jump is bigger because past bethesda games look and play like absolute shit, come the fuck on.
But thanks for proving that this game does nothing nextgen except for the scope (with a fuckload of non-handcrafted content to make that possible).
Like i said, zero g gravity is not a novelty anymore, dead space, prey and borderlands presequel did that already, oh wow, you jump higher and stuff floats around, absolutely incredible nextgen gameplay ladies and gentlemen, if you think that starfield is gonna use gravity in combat for more than that, you are in for a rude awakening my dude, oh wait, you get slightly pushed back if you use ballistic weapons, game changer.
I'm not impressed by that gif because spaceship fighting is nothing new, not sure why you are impressed by that...you are not fighting with 1000 allies against 1000 adversaries and making a nextgen epic battle, there is nothing impressive in that gif from a nextgen gameplay standpoint.
We are never gonna be on the same page with starfield until the games is out apparently.
Also fucking lol at thinking that destruction during cutscenes, on rail bosses battle and qte fest is somehow nextgen gameplay...jesus
Ff16 feels like asura wrath with better graphic, a ps3 game...gimme that shit in real time that also involve the gameplay and then we can discuss.
But thanks for proving that this game does nothing nextgen except for the scope (with a fuckload of non-handcrafted content to make that possible).
Like i said, zero g gravity is not a novelty anymore, dead space, prey and borderlands presequel did that already, oh wow, you jump higher and stuff floats around, absolutely incredible nextgen gameplay ladies and gentlemen, if you think that starfield is gonna use gravity in combat for more than that, you are in for a rude awakening my dude, oh wait, you get slightly pushed back if you use ballistic weapons, game changer.
I'm not impressed by that gif because spaceship fighting is nothing new, not sure why you are impressed by that...you are not fighting with 1000 allies against 1000 adversaries and making a nextgen epic battle, there is nothing impressive in that gif from a nextgen gameplay standpoint.
We are never gonna be on the same page with starfield until the games is out apparently.
Also fucking lol at thinking that destruction during cutscenes, on rail bosses battle and qte fest is somehow nextgen gameplay...jesus
Ff16 feels like asura wrath with better graphic, a ps3 game...gimme that shit in real time that also involve the gameplay and then we can discuss.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol they are NOT onrails if you can control your character. Onrails would be that first uncharted drake's fortune jeep sequence or the Jeep escape sequence with Ellie and Jesse. You have full control over your Eikons in all of these battles. Even when you go into space in the fight against bahamut. Just because they pause to give you a QTE punch every now and then doesnt mean the whole thing isnt fully playable.The jump is bigger because past bethesda games look and play like absolute shit, come the fuck on.
But thanks for proving that this game does nothing nextgen except for the scope (with a fuckload of non-handcrafted content to make that possible).
Like i said, zero g gravity is not a novelty anymore, dead space, prey and borderlands presequel did that already, oh wow, you jump higher and stuff floats around, absolutely incredible nextgen gameplay ladies and gentlemen, if you think that starfield is gonna use gravity in combat for more than that, you are in for a rude awakening my dude.
I'm not impressed by that gif because spaceship fighting is nothing new, not sure why you are impressed by that...you are not fighting with 1000 allies against 1000 adversaries and making a nextgen epic battle, there is nothing impressive in that gif from a nextgen gameplay standpoint.
Also fucking lol at thinking that destruction during cutscenes, on rail bosses battle and qte fest is somehow nextgen gameplay...jesus
Ff16 feels like asura wrath with better graphic, a ps3 game...gimme that shit in real time that also involve the gameplay and then we can discuss.
I told you why gravity, space battles and exploring massive planets is impressive in terms of scope and scale. No one did that last gen. Dead Space are prey are linear as fuck and borderlands looks like shit. I dont remember it having gravity or anything physics based. You are taking stuff games did 10-15 years ago in linear settings and then completely dropped when everyone went open world, and dismissing the one game that brought it all back in one package.
Bottomline is that if realtime GI was possible last gen in an open world game, RDR2 and Horizon wouldve had it. If space battles were possible in a deep systems driven RPG then Andromeda and Destiny wouldve had them. If FF16 style setpieces and boss fights were possible last gen, GOW and DMC wouldve had them. Plain and simple. I am watching the Ratchet portal sequence in the DF video right now and that shit is still next gen. The rest of the game is running on PS4 Pro level hardware at 1080p 60 fps at times so its not like its doing a lot graphically speaking but you literally cannot do that portal sequence on last gen hardware. That makes it next gen.
You are just too hard to please. These guys are producing visuals on par with the best looking game of all time in HFW with even better lighting and draw distance, and you're like meh, their visuals sucked last gen so they dont count.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Pre-sequel was semi-open world, you had fights in open areas, having a bigger world doens't change anything in the moment to moment gameply, the core of zero g gravity is jumping higher or floating and objects\enemies bodies floating, stuff that was already made gameplay wise by other games, you saw 2 fights in zero g in the deep dive, one in a small room like ds or prey, and the other in an open area like presequel, the only new thing is getting slightly pushed back when you fire with ballistic weapons, hardly a game changer, at best is a nice little feature, and it's not even new, i played indie games with dynamic pushback depends on how strong the weapon was, change the reason, doesn't change the result.
Hell even kz shadowfall had a section in zero g with dead enemies and objects floating arounds.
The more spectacular moment in ff16 when you have "controls" are super stricted,
the 2 most spectacular moments of the titan fight are when you go left and right riding his arms, barely any gameplay or freedom of movement, and the end when you are both falling and punch each other in a qte fest, spectacular all you want, zero nextgen gameplay involved.
I'm not hard to please, i rewatched that damn deep dive 4 times in search of this incredible nextgen gameplay, but i see none of it, the moment to moment gameplay looks exactly like any other fps or spaceship fighting game.
P.s. maybe they are capable of using real time gi because some parts of the graphic are ps4 launch at best, i prefer a more even approach to graphic, but i admit that i also don't give a fuck about the light model as you well know so i put less weight on it.
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arkhamguy123
Member
GymWolf
Gold Member
Not at all, i'm gonna buy starfield at day one, we were just discussing what the game does in term of gameplay to be considered nextgen, if you see something in the deep dive during the combat that can be considered, nextgen, i'm all hears.
Gymwolf when a first person shooter is comprised of first person shooter gameplay
I love fps
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
Why?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Ratchet running on a steam deck. Mix of low and medium settings.
Watch Spiderman 2 get ported to PC next year and run easily on a 1.7 tflops handheld GPU.
As far as HDDs are concerned, this game requires an ssd to function properly during setpiece moments. So at least its next gen in that aspect. in terms of visual fidelity though, its obvious that insomniac couldve done much more with the PS5 GPU.
Watch Spiderman 2 get ported to PC next year and run easily on a 1.7 tflops handheld GPU.
As far as HDDs are concerned, this game requires an ssd to function properly during setpiece moments. So at least its next gen in that aspect. in terms of visual fidelity though, its obvious that insomniac couldve done much more with the PS5 GPU.
arkhamguy123
Member
Not so fast. The headlines today are from DF testing the 5400RPM base PS4 HDD. Not even using a decent HDD from say 2015 or 2016. To my knowledge it’s unknown how those moments would perform on a decent HDD not an ancient cheap one.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Lol and still it was struggling to stream in data for the lowest texture and asset settings possible and with a GPU equivalent to an upclocked PS4 Pro. Enough gaslighting guys, Rift Apart is next gen. Now kneel before Insomniac and beg for forgiveness.
arkhamguy123
Member
Yes… with the PS4 HDD…. As I said…
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Yes, the HDD.... that was used in the last gen system.
arkhamguy123
Member
How about you go back and re read the first part you replied to when you tried to have your slam dunk rebuttal
ChiefDada
Gold Member
arkhamguy123
Member
No dude seriously, it’s clear you didn’t comprehend and replied to try to get in a “ah ha”
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Not really. I've stopped taking most posts in this thread seriously a while ago.
arkhamguy123
Member
That doesn’t conflict with what I said
Negotiator101
Member
When is this game out?
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Lying? You just said you consider cutscenes and gameplay as one in the same when talking about graphics...
I'm trying to get through to you that if you keep doing that you'll continue to have problems with people here ...because when most people refer to graphics theyre referring to gameplay!
What's there to even lie about? You have a habit now of posting story trailer/cutscene screenshots in response to other people discussing GAMEPLAY. You JUST did it on the previous page!
People have been trying to explain to you why these cutscene, story trailers are not truly indicative of gameplay but you're skull is too thick apparently.
Wishmaster92
Member
Finally my Remnant 2 ps5 copy came in. Saw the super dense environments in the DF video and had to get it. Sure enough, back of the box says 95GB minimum and this is supposed to be a low budget game? I always knew when these UE5 games start coming out that they were gonna be massive thanks to nanite geometry, and for good reason some of the environments look absolutely stunning! I’ll post some pictures later
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Lol, impossible! I don't take this seriously enough for a "problem" to ever exist.
*Your (the irony is hilarious, though).
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nah, that was a misnomer. There was UE5 developer talk where they confirmed that nanite geometry isnt really that heavy. The dev specifically pointed out rumors that the PS5 demo was 100GB and said it was only around 17GB.
The entire Matrix open world demo was just 25GB.
They said 2024.
So 2025.
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No idea honestly!
Wishmaster92
Member
Actually you’re right. The 1.0 version on disk is 66.01GB
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I dont mind posting cutscene screenshots as long as its understood that cutscenes are way higher fidelity nowadays than they were even back when ND was pre-rendering Uncharted and TLOU cutscenes. The LOD on character models is increased well beyond what we see in gameplay. The lack of hero lighting completely kills the character models during gameplay in 99% of the games out there. only Horizon FW uses higher quality character models mixed with hero lighting to keep them somewhat close to cutscene visuals.
DF was saying how Insmoniac might be using RT Shadows during cutscenes. We know Spiderman doesnt show hair during gameplay and thats their biggest improvement from last gen if MJ's hair is anything to go by. We'll mostly get to appreciate that hair in cutscenes only. Should we be judging Spiderman based on souped up cutscenes? Probably not. However, its fair to compare the cutscenes to cutscenes of other games like Hellblade and HFW.
P.S Same goes for FF16 which is very deceptive with how it randomly inserts some incredible looking character models in its cutscenes. Getting close to the end and holy shit some of these cutscenes look straight up CG. because they probably are lmao.
GooseMan69
Member
Why does the desert section of FF16 look like two gens behind the other regions? MGS V has a better looking desert region lol. And that runs on a PS3.
Other parts of the game look really impressive though. The Drakes Fang level (I think?) looked awesome.
Other parts of the game look really impressive though. The Drakes Fang level (I think?) looked awesome.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
This is really impressive to me…it looks so good and close to the State of Unreal demo showcase a few months back…Found these while looking for Starfield gifs. Xbox fans must be doing some fancy algorithm massaging for these to come up alongside searches for another Xbox exclusive lol.
This is Naughty Dog quality stuff from Ninja Theory. Ive been a big fan of them since heavenly sword. Even like enslaved and DmC. Really hope they get their dues next year when this become the defacto next gen showpiece when it launches.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Its absolutely fair to compare cutscenes with other cutscenes
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Lmao at me getting pushback for calling armored core a PS4 looking game in that other thread. Some people really just see what they want to see.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It’s their lighting system. It looks excellent in cloudy weather or nighttime dungeons.
I think the biggest problem is the asset quality. it might actually be ps3 quality textures and models. And their incredible lighting system is making everything look stunning until it doesnt and ends up exposing the game's last gen roots. And by last gen i mean PS3 gen. A lot of these issues were resolved by photogammtery in the early days of last gen. MGSV lacked those high quality assets and looked really dated at times. Thats the feeling i get with FF16 which goes from OMG THAT LOOKS CGI to IS THIS PS3? in a span of a couple of levels.
I legit believe that the Uncharted 3's desert level looks better than this lol
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/66781160/Uncharted_3_Drake_s_Deception_Chapter_19_treasure_1.6.jpg)
But then out of nowhere, the lighting changes and it goes back to looking stunning.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I have taken some late story mission screenshots of FF16. Mostly of characters and villains. The cutscenes in this game simply look stunning.
Again, mostly character models but full disclosure these are from late story missions.
I dont know what kind of black magic they are doing to give these characters such a CG look but i would love to see more games utilize this technique.
Again, mostly character models but full disclosure these are from late story missions.
I dont know what kind of black magic they are doing to give these characters such a CG look but i would love to see more games utilize this technique.
GooseMan69
Member
It’s their lighting system. It looks excellent in cloudy weather or nighttime dungeons.
I think the biggest problem is the asset quality. it might actually be ps3 quality textures and models. And their incredible lighting system is making everything look stunning until it doesnt and ends up exposing the game's last gen roots. And by last gen i mean PS3 gen. A lot of these issues were resolved by photogammtery in the early days of last gen. MGSV lacked those high quality assets and looked really dated at times. Thats the feeling i get with FF16 which goes from OMG THAT LOOKS CGI to IS THIS PS3? in a span of a couple of levels.
I legit believe that the Uncharted 3's desert level looks better than this lol
But then out of nowhere, the lighting changes and it goes back to looking stunning.
Was gonna mention Uncharted 3 looking better as well lol.
The same region looked pretty good in the opening level. Then you get to that more open section later on and it’s just a washed out orange mess.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Found some Uncharted 3 desert gifs. Yep, Im not crazy. It definitely looks better than FF16's desert level.
I know it's linear and all that but these games are two generations apart and the ps5 has 44x more tflops than the 0.23 tflops ps3. thats a bigger leap than what we had when we went from 6 gflops ps2 to 230 gflops ps3.
This game is driving me crazy.
I know it's linear and all that but these games are two generations apart and the ps5 has 44x more tflops than the 0.23 tflops ps3. thats a bigger leap than what we had when we went from 6 gflops ps2 to 230 gflops ps3.
This game is driving me crazy.
Trilobit
Gold Member
At the very least, SP2 will destroy that shit in real-time cutscenes and facial animations.
I just hope that the fireplace animations are better than the Miles Morales ones. smh
