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[SlimySnake]

Trigger warning for Turk1983 because he will have aged 10 years by the time he finishes reading this post.

It looks ¿bad?

The lighting...

It looks last gen as fuck. I never thought it looked next gen but this just keeps getting worse.

The xsx has 9x more tflops than the base xbox one. has roughly 15x more raw GPU power. No longer held back by a jaguar GPU. And this is the best they could do? At least get Driveclub weather in there that was running at 1080p 30 fps on a 1.8 tflops GPU. They had 10 more tflops and couldnt get that weather at 60 fps?

The lighting is also really last gen. This cant be the best they could do. After 6 years of development time.

Here are some comparisons with last gen.

 

[Turk1993]

Trigger warning for Turk1983 because he will have aged 10 years by the time he finishes reading this post.

It looks last gen as fuck. I never thought it looked next gen but this just keeps getting worse.

The xsx has 9x more tflops than the base xbox one. has roughly 15x more raw GPU power. No longer held back by a jaguar GPU. And this is the best they could do? At least get Driveclub weather in there that was running at 1080p 30 fps on a 1.8 tflops GPU. They had 10 more tflops and couldnt get that weather at 60 fps?

The lighting is also really last gen. This cant be the best they could do. After 6 years of development time.

Here are some comparisons with last gen.

They showed yet again the early Series X build which lacked all the RT and other features that the pc footage had from last month and January. I think they have a issue with the console version not hitting that 4K60 RT target so they use lower settings. Because just look at this when they showed the pc version 7 months ago.

 

[rsouzadk]

I think one of the main reasons why we are not seeing a big jump when switching to RTGI or even Lumen is that the games themselves are static. Last gen games were designed around baked lighting solutions and even open world games with dynamic time of day simply didnt change time of day fast enough to see a distinct difference.

Dynamic GI will make a difference as levels themselves become dynamic. A good example of this was in the PS5 UE5 demo when the ceiling collapses and the sunlight rushes in illuminating the completely darkened corridor. We have rarely seen stuff like that implemented in games.

I think most games are like movies in that a cinematographer spends years perfecting the look of a level or a set, he doesnt want that fucked with just so nerds can get their dynamic GI. His artistic vision comes first. In video games, with everything being dynamic, maybe he might want certain levels to have dynamic elements like say a fire spreading through a building or weather effects moving around different lighting sources but you can always script stuff like that.

I guess what I am trying to say is that maybe devs have been held back by having to design games around static baked lighting. Once we see whats really possible with RTGI or dynamic GI, we might come around.

I rly dont think we will get this level of quality in games this gen.

 

[SlimySnake]

They showed yet again the early Series X build which lacked all the RT and other features that the pc footage had from last month and January. I think they have a issue with the console version not hitting that 4K60 RT target so they use lower settings. Because just look at this when they showed the pc version 7 months ago.

What's this trailer called? Looks much better than the recent footage. I want to watch on the big screen.

EDIT: nvm found it.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Trigger warning for Turk1983 because he will have aged 10 years by the time he finishes reading this post.

It looks last gen as fuck. I never thought it looked next gen but this just keeps getting worse.

The xsx has 9x more tflops than the base xbox one. has roughly 15x more raw GPU power. No longer held back by a jaguar GPU. And this is the best they could do? At least get Driveclub weather in there that was running at 1080p 30 fps on a 1.8 tflops GPU. They had 10 more tflops and couldnt get that weather at 60 fps?

The lighting is also really last gen. This cant be the best they could do. After 6 years of development time.

Here are some comparisons with last gen.

I'm not trolling when I say GT7 in VR mode is better looking. Much better lighting and materials imo.

 

[Schmendrick]

I think one of the main reasons why we are not seeing a big jump when switching to RTGI or even Lumen is that the games themselves are static.

I think you are giving this too much thought when the simplest answer is right in front of you.
We´re talking first gen budget AMD RT tech. Even Nvidia`s high end Turing cards were only barely capable to produce noteworthy results, and AMD`s solution was crap compared to them.
Any developer wanting to implement RTGI/Lumen with non-crap settings in a complex game on such hardware is in for the 7th circle of optimization hell and even then will not get results that immediately jump into your face like CP2077`s PT because the power simply isn`t there.

 

[CGNoire]

I think you are giving this too much thought when the simplest answer is right in front of you.
We´re talking first gen budget AMD RT tech. Even Nvidia`s high end Turing cards were only barely capable to produce noteworthy results, and AMD`s solution was crap compared to them.
Any developer wanting to implement RTGI/Lumen with non-crap settings in a complex game on such hardware is in for the 7th circle of optimization hell and even then will not get results that immediately jump into your face like CP2077`s PT because the power simply isn`t there.

Well it worked for both the matrix and the valley demos.

Dynamic enviroments and lots of moving dymamic objects is a must for showcasing the differences. We may not have enough overhead for upgrades accross the board but if games where made for it like for instance a new Red Faction the difference would be night and day. And lets not pretend characters in baked games dont look like there glowing in shaded areas. The difference is there.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm not trolling when I say GT7 in VR mode is better looking. Much better lighting and materials imo.

Well, I was with you until I looked up DF's GT7 video last night. (Havent played the game myself) and compared it to the Forza trailer Turk was talking about. The latest footage looks meh but im definitely seeing a noticeable leap in visual fidelity compared to GT7 which looks dated even in its lighting. The tracks are also very fugly apart from the trial mountain circuit. Its like PD doesnt believe in bounce lighting.



vs



I think if you put these games next to each other, the difference will appear staggering. Really hope DF doesnt just do their usual fawning over graphics for 30 minutes and instead does some gen on gen and GT7 vs Forza 8 comparisons to showcase the difference.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think you are giving this too much thought when the simplest answer is right in front of you.
We´re talking first gen budget AMD RT tech. Even Nvidia`s high end Turing cards were only barely capable to produce noteworthy results, and AMD`s solution was crap compared to them.
Any developer wanting to implement RTGI/Lumen with non-crap settings in a complex game on such hardware is in for the 7th circle of optimization hell and even then will not get results that immediately jump into your face like CP2077`s PT because the power simply isn`t there.

I think Overdrive is proof that the tech is there even for a fully path traced game, and yet the difference is very subtle only noticeable in side by side comparisons and even then the leap isnt generational. I get that console developers dont have access to path tracing capable GPUs but honestly, I have seen path tracing in action on my PC, and it doesnt make a game magically look next gen.

Besides, Lumen doesnt require RT hardware. Software Lumen was used in the first PS5 demo and it already looks stunning. We will see just how poorly optimized UE5's lumen is. Remnant 2 leaving it out is not a good first start but lords of the fallen is shipping with it, and we will know soon enough. Starfield is also using Realtime GI. Likely software based since series s cant handle ray tracing to save its life. Forza is also using realtime GI though its not ray traced on consoles. Avatar seems to be using RTGI with fallbacks to software GI to save on performance. I think we will see a lot of these games ship with realtime GI soon and we will know soon enough whether or not, its worth the performance hit.

As of right now, i think HFW has the best lighting of any game out there and its not even using realtime GI, let alone ray traced GI.

 

[Schmendrick]

I think Overdrive is proof that the tech is there even for a fully path traced game, and yet the difference is very subtle only noticeable in side by side comparisons and even then the leap isnt generational.

I absolutely disagree here. The first time I switched to OD and went from direct sunlight light into indirectly lit areas let alone areas where bounce lighting is pronounced it blew my mind. Yes, it doesn`t jump into your face from screenshots alone sometimes, but If you played on overdrive for a while and then go back to "classic" lighting the "errors", the sheer inconsistencies become frustratingly obvious. This tech demo probably ruined my "awesome-o-meter" for the rest of this gen as nothing will come close to it.

Besides, Lumen doesnt require RT hardware. Software Lumen was used in the first PS5 demo and it already looks stunning.

Software Lumen is highly limited with very few rays which then also need the geometry to be voxel field-abstracted to be able to run at all. Dunno if that is even worth considering implementing since the performance impact is still substantial and brings even less to the table than basic RTGI which a lot of people already consider not worth the performance impact. Seems unattractive outside of edge cases.

lords of the fallen is shipping with it, and we will know soon enough.

The B-Roll footage is already painting a not so pretty picture considering that implementation. You can basically stop at any given moment and you will find a looooot of lighting/shadowing to be missing. I fully expect a Lumen implementation with everything dialed down to "basically pointless" in that game. Well, one can hope...

I think we will see a lot of these games ship with realtime GI soon and we will know soon enough whether or not, its worth the performance hit.

Agreed.

As of right now, i think HFW has the best lighting of any game out there and its not even using realtime GI, let alone ray traced GI.

I can`t really understand that notion tbh as lightning is imho the weakest link in HFW`s tech and stands out like a sore thumb due to everything else being so high quality.

 

[Turk1993]

Well, I was with you until I looked up DF's GT7 video. (Havent played the game myself) and compared it to the Forza trailer Turk was talking about. The latest footage looks meh but im definitely seeing a noticeable leap in visual fidelity compared to GT7 which looks dated even in its lighting. The tracks are also very fugly apart from the trial mountain circuit. Its like PD doesnt believe in bounce lighting.



vs



I think if you put these games next to each other, the difference will appear staggering. Really hope DF doesnt just do their usual fawning over graphics for 30 minutes and instead does some gen on gen and GT7 vs Forza 8 comparisons to showcase the difference.

And its not only the graphics, the physics are also much much more advanced and taxing than anything before. It simply cannot run on last gen without changing the whole physics system.

I'm not trolling when I say GT7 in VR mode is better looking. Much better lighting and materials imo.

Its not trolling, most materials in GT7 are still better from what we have seen till now. There PBR is really impressive and still one of the best. But overall GT7 is not looking better tho and there are many reasons for it, the track side detail, 2d trees, in game car lod, draw distance, lod pop in, shadow render distance, reflections and light filtering are really areas they should improve. I have 150h in GT7 and i said this a couple times, its the best looking racing sim on console. But the moment you compare it to something like ACC on a high end pc than you notice the big difference between a actual current gen game and a game cross gen game. There are even areas where FM7 is better and looks much better than GT7 while been a last gen only game that also needed to run on a 1.2tf shitbrick. Ofcourse overall GT7 looks better but because they made it cross gen and reuse almost 80% of the GTS content most tracks looked last gen and even some worse than Forza Motorsport 7 (outside the new tracks and trees obv.). They made some improvements here and there like the added grass and some higher res trees but its mostly the same.

 

[hlm666]

The B-Roll footage is already painting a not so pretty picture considering that implementation.

You point me towards the footage this is most obvious in, I havn't been watching too many of the previews and stuff because I intend to play the game and didn't want to spoil to much but i'm also very curious how lords and aveum turn out using all the ue5 features.

 

[Schmendrick]

You point me towards the footage this is most obvious in, I havn't been watching too many of the previews and stuff because I intend to play the game and didn't want to spoil to much but i'm also very curious how lords and aveum turn out using all the ue5 features.

I think the current B-Roll footage is the same in all available preview videos.
Pay attention to the grey-ish fleshy areas in particular.
Anything without direct light is rather flat looking. Self shadowing, contact shadows, AO etc seem very dialed down, and ofc a lot of stuff that should cast light and shadows doesn't, but that is to be expected, still.
Judging from other material we`ve already seen there should be some really marvellous setpieces in there (probably with largely hand tuned lighting), but the lighting model itself doesn`t seem to be anything to write home about currently. Will have to wait for an in-depth analysis once the game is out ofc.

 

[setoman]

If Crystal Dynamics' next Tomb Raider in UE5 doesn't look like this, is it fair to say its game over for this generation?

 

[Johnny Concrete]

I think one of the main reasons why we are not seeing a big jump when switching to RTGI or even Lumen is that the games themselves are static. Last gen games were designed around baked lighting solutions and even open world games with dynamic time of day simply didnt change time of day fast enough to see a distinct difference.

Dynamic GI will make a difference as levels themselves become dynamic. A good example of this was in the PS5 UE5 demo when the ceiling collapses and the sunlight rushes in illuminating the completely darkened corridor. We have rarely seen stuff like that implemented in games.

I think most games are like movies in that a cinematographer spends years perfecting the look of a level or a set, he doesnt want that fucked with just so nerds can get their dynamic GI. His artistic vision comes first. In video games, with everything being dynamic, maybe he might want certain levels to have dynamic elements like say a fire spreading through a building or weather effects moving around different lighting sources but you can always script stuff like that.

I guess what I am trying to say is that maybe devs have been held back by having to design games around static baked lighting. Once we see whats really possible with RTGI or dynamic GI, we might come around.

It's kind of telling that Lords ot Fallen used Lumen, but only to see in the editor how their lightbakes would pan out.

That's….not really what it is made for.
I'm sure it takes its toll on performance, but they did not go out of their way to design something with this incredible tech in mind.

 

[Represent.]

If Crystal Dynamics' next Tomb Raider in UE5 doesn't look like this, is it fair to say its game over for this generation?

I can pretty much guarantee it wont look like that

Damn, we need some new content in here. Middle of summer, its dry as hell. When's the next game event happening? We need another wave of game trailers to disect and shit on.

 

[Lethal01]

If Crystal Dynamics' next Tomb Raider in UE5 doesn't look like this, is it fair to say its game over for this generation?

Only if you're a total and base what a game rendered in realtime(30fps) on hardware worth $1,000 at most.
Against footage rendered on hardware probably worth 10x that but most importantly rendering it at minutes per frame meaning you're basically from hundreds of time as much power at it.

It's not at all a reaslistic ask of available hardware, and it's definitely in no way a failure if we don't get close, it's just you have silly expectations based on total ignorance.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

If Crystal Dynamics' next Tomb Raider in UE5 doesn't look like this, is it fair to say its game over for this generation?

It SHOULD look like that with a 10 TFLOP console…I'm not seeing the "next gen" in these new games, even with UE5…Only few games actually use UE5 features… Fortnite, the Matrix demo, Remnant 2 and a few others. I'm waiting for nanite character models also. These new games are still too low poly, have areas with horrible textures etc. There are enough teraflops for CGI like visuals in these current gen machines but companies are lazy, greedy and using last gen cross platform technology. Where are the hair physics from the FIFA games in other games? What about cloth physics? If Naughty Dog can do TLOU 2 on 1.84 TFLOPS, there is no excuse for other devs using 10 TLFOPS to not surpass it. HFW, Ratchet, Spiderman MM (PS5), TLOU I and few others are actually sorta next gen in visuals, but I'm not seeing the visual leap from 1.84 TFLOPS to 10 and 12 TFLOPS…I'm just not.

 

[setoman]

Only if you're a total and base what a game rendered in realtime(30fps) on hardware worth $1,000 at most.
Against footage rendered on hardware probably worth 10x that but most importantly rendering it at minutes per frame meaning you're basically from hundreds of time as much power at it.

It's not at all a reaslistic ask of available hardware, and it's definitely in no way a failure if we don't get close, it's just you have silly expectations based on total ignorance.

With all due respect, the fidelity of the character in Hell-Blade 2 matches the fidelity of the characters in that video.
Then you combine it with the fidelity of the two similar demos we have gotten. Lumen in the Land of Nanite and Electric Dreams Demo which matches the environment fidelity in that video aswell. And these demos run real-time.

You can find some of the pictures here:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/dKgYAK

 

[SlimySnake]

If Crystal Dynamics' next Tomb Raider in UE5 doesn't look like this, is it fair to say its game over for this generation?

It's really hard to say. On one hand, its on UE5 so its bound to look great, but ive been burned by a lot of AAA devs recently. SSM, respawn, Insomniac, ND, 343i, Infinity Ward, everyone seems to be phoning in this gen. No one at these studios wants to prioritize graphics anymore which is very odd seeing as how graphics are the first thing to get blamed for long development times and delays.

On the other hand, it did start dev in 2021 so its probably a 2026 title at best. My guess is that a year before next gen ends, we should begin to see next gen graphics so there is that.

What's going to be more interesting is seeing games that are coming out next year. Rockstar has all but confirmed a holiday 2024 release of GTA6 to their investors, but if its a 2024 title and not a 2025 or 2026, its likely cross gen. or will have cross gen tech holding it back like most games released so far this gen. Death Stranding 2 is also giving me cross gen vibes. Wolverine is another 2024 title that is made my insomniac so it will likely look mediocre even if its next gen only.

But 2025 and beyond with ND, Bluepoint, SSM, CD Project and Bioware all finally coming out with their next gen only games on next gen tech like UE5, we should start seeing games that look straight up CG, at least in cutscenes like the Matrix did.

 

[CGNoire]

Forza is also using realtime GI though its not ray traced on consoles.

PC only and only in Replays.

Software Lumen is highly limited with very few rays which then also need the geometry to be voxel field-abstracted to be able to run at all. Dunno if that is even worth considering implementing since the performance impact is still substantial and brings even less to the table than basic RTGI which a lot of people already consider not worth the performance impact. Seems unattractive outside of edge cases.

The 1st UE5 demo used software lumen and it looked fantastic.

 

[CGNoire]

It's kind of telling that Lords ot Fallen used Lumen, but only to see in the editor how their lightbakes would pan out.

Is this true?......That would explain why all the gameplay footage looks to be lacking good lighting.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

Is this true?......That would explain why all the gameplay footage looks to be lacking good lighting.

Baked lighting should look just as good if not better. It's just not as 'dynamic'.

 

[Lethal01]

Then you combine it with the fidelity of the two similar demos we have gotten. Lumen in the Land of Nanite and Electric Dreams Demo which matches the environment fidelity in that video aswell. And these demos run real-time.

You can find some of the pictures here:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/dKgYAK

With no due respect.
The gulf of graphical fidelty between this and that trailer is astronomical, and comparing the two is comical.
The lighting is simply in a different dimension and combined with the geomtric density nothing is coming close in real time on these consoles.

They look similar in the same way avatar frontiers of pandora looks similar to Avatar the way of water.

 

[Lethal01]

PC only and only in Replays.

Forza Horizon has realtime GI at all times on all next gen consoles

 

[Schmendrick]

The 1st UE5 demo used software lumen and it looked fantastic.

A rock desert with mostly direct lighting from a singular source per scene isn't exactly difficult for any RT system. Add a few more light sources and some finer dynamic geometry like moving vegetation and "cheap" software RT with abstracted geometry field reaches its limits pretty fast.

It was a handpicked demo scenario with those limitations in mind... The matrix demo already used the hw-variant, and even that had to be dialed down quite a bit.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I can pretty much guarantee it wont look like that

Damn, we need some new content in here. Middle of summer, its dry as hell. When's the next game event happening? We need another wave of game trailers to disect and shit on.

Gamescon is next week, 4A games are going to be there so next-gen goodies is pretty much a lock.

 

[CGNoire]

A rock desert with mostly direct lighting from a singular source per scene isn't exactly difficult for any RT system. Add a few more light sources and some finer dynamic geometry like moving vegetation and software RT either produces garbage or has to increase accuracy and performance impact dramatically.

It was a handpicked demo scenario with those limitations in mind... The matrix demo already used the hw-variant, and even that had to be dialed down quite a bit.

I was referring to the scenes in indirect light near the beginning when they move the light source, in the middle when they showcase the first statues and the end when the ceiling opens up all look really good admittingly with a little lag.

 

[H . R . 2]

Gamescon is next week, 4A games are going to be there so next-gen goodies is pretty much a lock.

except for 4A, let's not get our hopes up again and end up disappointed

"It's going to be an exciting show with new looks at many announced upcoming games like Alan Wake 2 and Black Myth: Wukong," Keighley said.
"This year's ONL is less about announcing brand new projects, and more about giving fans updates on some of the biggest games due out over the next year."

 

[Edder1]

Gamescon is next week, 4A games are going to be there so next-gen goodies is pretty much a lock.

Dude, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. They're probably just gonna talk about their tech and maybe have a 10 second teaser. At this point it doesn't seem like anyone is showing anything new before VGAs.

 

[Musilla]

Spider-Man 2.

• Graphics Mode Options
  • Fidelity – 30FPS with graphical features like raytracing enhanced lighting and additional VFX. Temporal techniques provide an extra-high-quality picture from a 4K-resolution base.
  • Performance – 60 FPS without the extra graphical features in Fidelity Mode. Temporal techniques provide a 4K picture from a lower-resolution base.

 

[Schmendrick]

I was referring to the scenes in indirect light near the beginning when they move the light source, in the middle when they showcase the first statues and the end when the ceiling opens up all look really good admittingly with a little lag.

That changes nothing about what I said. It's a comparatively simple lighting scenario where crude approximations with low ray and bounce counts and geometric simplifications suffice.
Software RT in Lumen is a very limited fallback and not the intended standard modus operandi now that hardware accelerated RT is supported and the necessary hardware has become available in consumer grade products.

 

[SlimySnake]

Spider-Man 2.

• Graphics Mode Options
  • Fidelity – Temporal techniques provide an extra-high-quality picture from a 4K-resolution base.

Sigh. Called it two years ago.

Their fascination, if not obsession with native 4k is moronic and holding their visuals back. Use a 1440p base resolution than use TSR or your artificial insemination techniques to get to 4k. 99% of the people can barely tell the difference.

 

[CGNoire]

That changes nothing about what I said. It's a comparatively simple lighting scenario where crude approximations with low ray and bounce counts and geometric simplifications suffice.
Software RT in Lumen is very limited and not the intended standard modus operandi now that hardware RT is supported.

Yes Harware RT is superior to software RT
Where we disagree is for me the "performance impact" of SRT is still worth it.

 

[shamoomoo]

Sigh. Called it two years ago.

Their fascination, if not obsession with native 4k is moronic and holding their visuals back. Use a 1440p base resolution than use TSR or your artificial insemination techniques to get to 4k. 99% of the people can barely tell the difference.

Why does that matter? There's a 1080p performance mode which probably has 80-90% the same visual make-up of the 4K mode.

 

[Traxtech]

Aslong as Spiderman 2 has 40 /120 mode, we good

 

[Schmendrick]

Where we disagree is for me the "performance impact" of SRT is still worth it.

Well, since no sane developer will ever use software RT over hardware RT in a complex scenario I can't really show you otherwise.
It's definitely very very scene dependent.

 

[SlimySnake]

Why does that matter? There's a 1080p performance mode which probably has 80-90% the same visual make-up of the 4K mode.

You can either use the 10 tflops GPU to render 4x more pixels, or 4x more detail/visual fidelity.

They are choosing to do the former and then wondering why no one thinks their game looks next gen.

 

[SlimySnake]

PC only and only in Replays.

Nah, they are using RTGI on PC but the game has realtime GI on all consoles. Just software based similar to Lumen.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Dude, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. They're proba just gonna talk about their tech and maybe have a 10 second teaser. At this point it doesn't seem like anyone is showing anything new before VGAs.

Tom Henderson already leaked the game is in a fully playable state, and will likely release sometime next year. I think there's a good chance we'll get some gameplay footage.

I should be more optimistically cautious though lol

 

[setoman]

With no due respect.
The gulf of graphical fidelty between this and that trailer is astronomical, and comparing the two is comical.
The lighting is simply in a different dimension and combined with the geomtric density nothing is coming close in real time on these consoles.

They look similar in the same way avatar frontiers of pandora looks similar to Avatar the way of water.

You do realize you can throw all the assets in that video into nanite and it won't even blink? You realize that nanite was made to use trillions of triangles worth movie quality assets like its nothing? There is NO geometric density that nanite can't handle. So I'm not sure why you mentioned geometric density as a thing.

Movies like Justice League, Jumanji, Lion King, Mandalorian, etc, use exact same Quixel Megascan assets that nanite handles like a toy.

The lighting is better but the trailer doesn't look the way it looks just because its using path tracing. Alot of it are close up shots with heavy post processing. You can toss those assets into UE5 and using nanite and lumen achieve very similar fidelity.

It will certainly won't be the difference between frontier of pandora and way of the water.
Snowdrop engine couldn't handle those movie assets, nanite can. Huge difference.

There's also another gap in lighting between the engine. So not sure why you even made that comparison.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Spider-Man 2.

• Graphics Mode Options
  • Fidelity – 30FPS with graphical features like raytracing enhanced lighting and additional VFX. Temporal techniques provide an extra-high-quality picture from a 4K-resolution base.
  • Performance – 60 FPS without the extra graphical features in Fidelity Mode. Temporal techniques provide a 4K picture from a lower-resolution base.

60FPS = not pushing the ps5 = explains why it looks so mediocre

 

[H . R . 2]

Sigh. Called it two years ago.

Their fascination, if not obsession with native 4k is moronic and holding their visuals back. Use a 1440p base resolution than use TSR or your artificial insemination techniques to get to 4k. 99% of the people can barely tell the difference.

it's not Insomniac's obsession, rather, Sony's promises about true 4K games that they now can't go back on
that has been their enticing selling point and slogan for the entire generation so far

 

[Cr1ptkeeper]

You do realize you can throw all the assets in that video into nanite and it won't even blink? You realize that nanite was made to use trillions of triangles worth movie quality assets like its nothing? There is NO geometric density that nanite can't handle. So I'm not sure why you mentioned geometric density as a thing.

Movies like Justice League, Jumanji, Lion King, Mandalorian, etc, use exact same Quixel Megascan assets that nanite handles like a toy.

The lighting is better but the trailer doesn't look the way it looks just because its using path tracing. Alot of it are close up shots with heavy post processing. You can toss those assets into UE5 and using nanite and lumen achieve very similar fidelity.

It will certainly won't be the difference between frontier of pandora and way of the water.
Snowdrop engine couldn't handle those movie assets, nanite can. Huge difference.

There's also another gap in lighting between the engine. So not sure why you even made that comparison.

I'm not a developer so I don't know what the resource cost is of nanite but I do know that Remnant 2 running on UE5 is running at 720P on the next gen consoles.
Don't think the next Tomb Raider wil be close to that trailer. We sadly won't match CG trailers from last gen on PS5 and Series X.

 

[winjer]

I'm not a developer so I don't know what the resource cost is of nanite but I do know that Remnant 2 running on UE5 is running at 720P on the next gen consoles.
Don't think the next Tomb Raider wil be close to that trailer. We sadly won't match CG trailers from last gen on PS5 and Series X.

That was not due to nanite, as much as it was due to over use of virtual shadows.
And with the latest patches, performance and resolution have probably also improved on consoles.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm not a developer so I don't know what the resource cost is of nanite but I do know that Remnant 2 running on UE5 is running at 720P on the next gen consoles.
Don't think the next Tomb Raider wil be close to that trailer. We sadly won't match CG trailers from last gen on PS5 and Series X.

in the 60 fps mode yes it runs at 720p. But it is targeting 1440p in the 30 fps mode and uses the excellent TSR to produce a very comparable 4k image.

60 fps modes should not be used to judge games or engines.

 

[FalconPunch]

And its not only the graphics, the physics are also much much more advanced and taxing than anything before. It simply cannot run on last gen without changing the whole physics system.

I'm sorry but, forza's "physics" are just wrong and completely unrealistic. I've had the opportunity to drive some pretty expensive cars and the way they handle when compared to Forza is night and day. Forza motorsport is one of the few driving games where it's not fun to drive the cars. It feels so wrong.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm sorry but, forza's "physics" are just wrong and completely unrealistic. I've had the opportunity to drive some pretty expensive cars and the way they handle when compared to Forza is night and day. Forza motorsport is one of the few driving games where it's not fun to drive the cars. It feels so wrong.

Hes talking about the new forza game which has had their physics supposedly improved by 48x. Whatever that means.

At the very least, the cars will feel much better to drive than they did in prior Forza games.

 

[FalconPunch]

Hes talking about the new forza game which has had their physics supposedly improved by 48x. Whatever that means.

At the very least, the cars will feel much better to drive than they did in prior Forza games.

Maybe but from what I've seen in the footage so far, the cars look like they understeer a lot. There's also the ice skating physics where it looks like the cars are aqua-plaining on dry roads...

 

[Turk1993]

I'm sorry but, forza's "physics" are just wrong and completely unrealistic. I've had the opportunity to drive some pretty expensive cars and the way they handle when compared to Forza is night and day. Forza motorsport is one of the few driving games where it's not fun to drive the cars. It feels so wrong.

We've already told you that the physics leap in Forza Motorsport is bigger than Forza Motorsport 5, 6 and 7 combined. This 48x improvement in tire fidelity results in a more fun and rewarding driving experience with how the car accelerates, corners, and brakes.

We've also overhauled our vehicle dynamics including the tire model with soft, medium and hard compounds, realistic suspension, braking and weight modeling that includes fuel and supports ballast adjustments. These improvements add more depth to driving and encourage new players to find and exceed their limits. Finally, there are massive improvements to our AI so it can keep up with the fastest drivers in our community. We'll have more to share on that later!

Maybe but from what I've seen in the footage so far, the cars look like they understeer a lot. There's also the ice skating physics where it looks like the cars are aqua-plaining on dry roads...

Did you watch the last months Forza monthly?