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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's still not mature enough for most things, there are bugs in nanite and lumen. They almost certainly span off a small team to explore moving to UE5, the team will have tried, documented the issues they saw, and they decided that staying in their lane would be better for actually getting the game done. For something of the scale of FF7pt2, I dont blame them.

Yes, it saves dev time, but it drops the frame rate significantly in the process and if your game is already taxing, it doesnt help.
It is the future but it's a brute force solution, we dont have the hardware needed to just turn it on across the board. Lumen flickers a ton with challenging spaces, with lower powered GPU's and an interior lit by light from outside with small windows, it completely falls apart and needs bounces turning up to a level that makes a 4090 sweat.
Not mature enough is the same excuse Respawn used for not using UE5 despite also starting dev in 2020. And they ended up with what is quite possibly the worst performing next gen game ever. Dropping to 600p on PS5, 15 fps at times, and just a complete disaster on PC thanks to insane stuttering issues.

This is not a new thing. Devs have gone through 8 generations of new hardware, new engines, new challenges. Growing pains is part of the process. The simple fact is that they chose the easy route and it blew up in their face. Their performance was shit. Their game didnt look particularly next gen. And they ended up taking more time because they couldnt use the latest UE5 quality of life features.

Every single next gen game from third parties has seen the framerate and resolution drops you are talking about. Started with medium back at launch then flight sim then everyone took a year off from making next gen games in 2022 but now Forspoken, Plague's Tale, Star Wars, FF16, Dead Space, are all low internal resolutions with severe framerate drops. So was it worth it sticking with last gen engines?

Even Returnal was like 1080p internal resolution. Next gen games are just taxing period. Its not because of UE5. Its because they are pushing more visual features. The problem is that these visual features are expensive and still look last gen as fuck. Might as well use features like nanite and lumen which at least look next gen.
 

Neilg

Member
Not mature enough is the same excuse Respawn used for not using UE5 despite also starting dev in 2020. And they ended up with what is quite possibly the worst performing next gen game ever. Dropping to 600p on PS5, 15 fps at times, and just a complete disaster on PC thanks to insane stuttering issues.

Do you not think this could be because of the reason I said? They thought they were going to use UE5 through development and worked to higher polycounts, then found out late that it wasnt mature enough?

Also, it's not an excuse, I am working on a project with specific conditions that breaks lumen. we have engineers from epic helping us out, they have verified the issues. meanwhile the project stays in 4.27 because it doesnt have these issues. You cant 'just use lumen' if it literally doesn't work properly with the game as designed.
I'm not talking about 5-10fps dips, i'm talking about the lighting engine literally breaks and falls apart, with large blotchy patches flickering over the entire screen that can only be fixed by throwing a 4090 at it and changing internal engine settings to ensure it would never even run on anything less (which even then doesnt fully clear up the flickering)

I was a huge proponent of UE5 and said a lot about how it's the next big leap forward, but after spending the last 12 months working with it, it still has a ton of issues when trying to use it in production. They will fix them, but that's why game developers aren't all in on it. it has nice features but they're not magic. And yes, games that already struggle to hit 30fps will struggle to hit 15 if you just port them to UE5 and turn lumen on.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Do you not think this could be because of the reason I said? They thought they were going to use UE5 through development and worked to higher polycounts, then found out late that it wasnt mature enough?
Nah, Respawn Director Stig Asmussen specifically said that they initially looked at UE5 and decided right away to not use it because it was in beta and they didnt want to deal with it. I found that very odd because he is from a Sony first party studio and they used their internal engines that were being retooled as they were doing development on GOW3 after shipping GOW2 on PS2. EVERY studio does this.

YOUR studio is doing this right now. AA studios like Immortals devs and Remnant 2 devs did it. Square Enix with all that Sony moneyhatting behind them, and Respawn with all that Disney money behind them should not be the ones making excuses. We arent talking about launch window games here. We are 3 years into the gen. 4 for FF7 rebirth. Thats half of the generation just two gens ago. If Epic can send engineers to your studio, surely they would send engineers to go help Respawn and Square Enix devs.

I was a huge proponent of UE5 and said a lot about how it's the next big leap forward, but after spending the last 12 months working with it, it still has a ton of issues when trying to use it in production. They will fix them, but that's why game developers aren't all in on it. it has nice features but they're not magic. And yes, games that already struggle to hit 30fps will struggle to hit 15 if you just port them to UE5 and turn lumen on.
IIRC, UE4 also had those issues though. I remember a lot of devs bitching about it in the early days of the gen. It's just part of game development. It's not new. If anything, these studios are bigger than ever. Games make more money than ever so yeah, i dont have much sympathy for you lot. ;p

UE5 does seem to be really heavy so it will have to be a juggling act. it seems Remnant had to give up Lumen, Immortals is targeting 1080p 60 fps lowest settings on a 5700xt WITH DLSS and FSR. So its going to be rough. But id rather play games that push visuals and fail to hold a decent resolution and framerate than play games that dont push visuals and fail to hold decent resolutions and framerate.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Immortals is supposedly 60 fps on consoles using FSR to get to 4k. (Im guessing FSR Performance)

But these PC specs are something else. When they say 1080p 60 fps low, they are talking upscaled 1080p using DLSS and FSR lol. So 720p internal on a freaking 2080.

People are going to riot when this game comes out next week. Im tempted to get the EA pro membership just to see how poorly it runs on my 3080.

b57235c9c69e155937f61c310565beca17f1b44a.jpg
 

Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Immortals is supposedly 60 fps on consoles using FSR to get to 4k. (Im guessing FSR Performance)

But these PC specs are something else. When they say 1080p 60 fps low, they are talking upscaled 1080p using DLSS and FSR lol. So 720p internal on a freaking 2080.

People are going to riot when this game comes out next week. Im tempted to get the EA pro membership just to see how poorly it runs on my 3080.

b57235c9c69e155937f61c310565beca17f1b44a.jpg
The specs make no sense, its heavily AMD favored. The RTX 2080 Super is stronger than RX 5700XT, the RTX 3080TI is stronger than RX 6800XT, the RTX 4080 is stronger than RX 7900XT and the RTX 4090 is stronger than RX 7900XTX.
 

SABRE220

Member
The specs make no sense, its heavily AMD favored. The RTX 2080 Super is stronger than RX 5700XT, the RTX 3080TI is stronger than RX 6800XT, the RTX 4080 is stronger than RX 7900XT and the RTX 4090 is stronger than RX 7900XTX.
Developers dont put alot of effort in ensuring consistency on hardware requirements between the different vendors. Cyber punk phantom liberty for e.g had the 7900xtx and the 3080ti as peers for "ultra" rasterized settings when it would destroy any ampere gpu in rasterization.
 
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Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Developers dont put alot of effort in ensuring consistency on hardware requirements between the different vendors. Cyber punk phantom liberty for e.g had the 7900xtx and the 3080ti as peers for "ultra" rasterized settings when it would destroy any ampere gpu in rasterization.
I think that was a typo since the other specs do match up perfectly and the RT performance matches the RTX 3080ti. But on Immortals its the whole Nvidia range thats lacking 2 upper models of power vs equivalent AMD card.
REQUIREMENTS.jpg
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The specs make no sense, its heavily AMD favored. The RTX 2080 Super is stronger than RX 5700XT, the RTX 3080TI is stronger than RX 6800XT, the RTX 4080 is stronger than RX 7900XT and the RTX 4090 is stronger than RX 7900XTX.
Epic's Lumen does not favor nvidia cards. I remember how the Matrix demo basically ran the same on the 3080 as AMD's 6800xt. Nearly 1:1 performance. No nvidia RT bonus there.

This is likely due to the engine starting out with PS5 specs in mind. This is basically what we've seen in other AMD sponsored games like AC Vahalla. The 5700xt performing like a 2080 Super. PS5 comparisons also pegged it at 2080 Super levels of performance in that game.

Far Cry 6 also comes to mind. But just going back to Matrix gives us the answers. There is no RTX boost here.
 

SABRE220

Member
Epic's Lumen does not favor nvidia cards. I remember how the Matrix demo basically ran the same on the 3080 as AMD's 6800xt. Nearly 1:1 performance. No nvidia RT bonus there.

This is likely due to the engine starting out with PS5 specs in mind. This is basically what we've seen in other AMD sponsored games like AC Vahalla. The 5700xt performing like a 2080 Super. PS5 comparisons also pegged it at 2080 Super levels of performance in that game.

Far Cry 6 also comes to mind. But just going back to Matrix gives us the answers. There is no RTX boost here.
Is that the case with hardware lumens or the software version? I do believe they are adding path tracing to the lumen feature set so nvidia will pull ahead eventually as lumen advances in complexity. Still I am honestly incredibly impressed from the results lumen is getting from amd hardware, comparing the pathetic performance other rt solutions get from amd hardware its damn impressive.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Is that the case with hardware lumens or the software version? I do believe they are adding path tracing to the lumen feature set so nvidia will pull ahead eventually as lumen advances in complexity. Still I am honestly incredibly impressed from the results lumen is getting from amd hardware, comparing the pathetic performance other rt solutions get from amd hardware its damn impressive.
Both. Matrix demo on PC defaulted to RT Lumen just like the console version. No advantage whatsoever to Nvidia cards.

That said, it was 1:1 and what we are seeing here is different. A 5700xt should be on par with a 2070 or 2070 super. Here it is on par with a 2080 super. So thats kinda odd. The 3080 was on par with the 6800xt in Matrix just like it is in other standard rasterized games, so again, very odd to see the 6800xt on par with the 3080 Ti here. A card 15-20% faster than the 3080.
 

SABRE220

Member
Both. Matrix demo on PC defaulted to RT Lumen just like the console version. No advantage whatsoever to Nvidia cards.

That said, it was 1:1 and what we are seeing here is different. A 5700xt should be on par with a 2070 or 2070 super. Here it is on par with a 2080 super. So thats kinda odd. The 3080 was on par with the 6800xt in Matrix just like it is in other standard rasterized games, so again, very odd to see the 6800xt on par with the 3080 Ti here. A card 15-20% faster than the 3080.
Interesting, maybe the hardware requirements are centered around rasterization and ignoring rt, in that scenario in in rare cases with certain past games the 6800xt has come close to the 3080ti in rasterization, also maybe the game is very vram intensive so the 3080(10gb) wouldn't scale as well. All guesswork here could just be wonky hardware requirements as have happened with several studios in the past and upon launch, real performance is par for the course.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Interesting, maybe the hardware requirements are centered around rasterization and ignoring rt, in that scenario in in rare cases with certain past games the 6800xt has come close to the 3080ti in rasterization, also maybe the game is very vram intensive so the 3080(10gb) wouldn't scale as well. All guesswork here could just be wonky hardware requirements as have happened with several studios in the past and upon launch, real performance is par for the course.
Its just their Lumen implementation. For whatever reason, it doesnt benefit the RTX cores. Hardware Lumen does use the RT hardware in AMD cards.
 

Lethal01

Member
YOUR studio is doing this right now. AA studios like Immortals devs and Remnant 2 devs did it. Square Enix with all that Sony moneyhatting behind them, and Respawn with all that Disney money behind them should not be the ones making excuses. We arent talking about launch window games here. We are 3 years into the gen. 4 for FF7 rebirth. Thats half of the generation just two gens ago. If Epic can send engineers to your studio, surely they would send engineers to go help Respawn and Square Enix devs.

None of this really means that switching to UE5 early enough for FF7 Rebirths release would actually make the game look better and not end up with something worse looking and performing than if they just continue to make customizations to UE4. Jumping into an engine can lead to just having to do "a few" extra months of work for a big reward, or you can find out mid development that there are massive issue for your game that you just can't fix and you may not know that until years into development.

Jumping into new engine early for major AAA games is just not a smart risk to take, and makes more sense for smaller games from smaller teams, They are doing the smart thing to take advantage of that while AAA teams were doing the smart thing to be cautious. but people doing the smart thing doesn't always lead to everyone being happy.

I also think FF7Rebirth is falling short graphically for a UE4 game though. But I'm also really not worrying about it till we get the next trailer in 4k.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
None of this really means that switching to UE5 early enough for FF7 Rebirths release would actually make the game look better and not end up with something worse looking and performing than if they just continue to make customizations to UE4. Jumping into an engine can lead to just having to do "a few" extra months of work for a big reward, or you can find out mid development that there are massive issue for your game that you just can't fix and you may not know that until years into development.

Jumping into new engine early for major AAA games is just not a smart risk to take, and makes more sense for smaller games from smaller teams, They are doing the smart thing to take advantage of that while AAA teams were doing the smart thing to be cautious. but people doing the smart thing doesn't always lead to everyone being happy.
It's funny you said that because thats precisely what Square Enix is doing with Kingdom Hearts 4. They started dev on UE4, made the reveal trailer on UE4 and then stated that the game will end up using UE5 and will have much better visuals at launch than the trailer. A trailer which looks way better than FF7.
According to the publication, the KH4 footage shown in its debut trailer is running real-time in Unreal Engine 4. However, the game’s development team is currently testing Unreal Engine 5 in parallel, it’s claimed.

“The full game will be made with Unreal Engine 5, and the quality of lighting and detail will be several levels higher,” according to Famitsu.

The Unreal Engine 4 Rebirth trailer and the Australia demo were also UE4 demos. Both looked way better than FF7 Rebirth and Star Wars and most next gen games running on UE4. It comes down to devs actually wanting to push boundaries. These guys didnt even change the character models. Literally boasted that they will have the same character models. Unbelievable.

3xxVSLx.gif
 

Neilg

Member
It's funny you said that because thats precisely what Square Enix is doing with Kingdom Hearts 4. They started dev on UE4, made the reveal trailer on UE4 and then stated that the game will end up using UE5 and will have much better visuals at launch than the trailer. A trailer which looks way better than FF7.

A year and a half ago, they stated that they were exploring UE5 and that they intend to use it. it's not really a point of comparison, is it? they haven't released a single bit of footage of it running in UE5. for all you know they might walk that back and stick to UE4.

I'm also pretty sure the KH4 trailer was rendered out using the sequencer. The AA is too clean for anything running on console hardware in UE4, it's a target render.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The specs make no sense, its heavily AMD favored. The RTX 2080 Super is stronger than RX 5700XT, the RTX 3080TI is stronger than RX 6800XT, the RTX 4080 is stronger than RX 7900XT and the RTX 4090 is stronger than RX 7900XTX.
Found this Matrix City Sample Benchmark from last year. Ignore the 5700 XT comparison because it defaults to software Lumens since it doesnt have the RDNA 2.0 hardware RT cores.

The real comparisons are between the 6000 series cards and the 3000 series cards and aside from 6700xt acting like a fucking 2080 Ti for some reason, they all look to be performing like they would in standard rasterized games. 6800xt and 3080 are pretty much on par.

A9UxeNd.jpg
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
It's funny you said that because thats precisely what Square Enix is doing with Kingdom Hearts 4. They started dev on UE4, made the reveal trailer on UE4 and then stated that the game will end up using UE5 and will have much better visuals at launch than the trailer. A trailer which looks way better than FF7.


The Unreal Engine 4 Rebirth trailer and the Australia demo were also UE4 demos. Both looked way better than FF7 Rebirth and Star Wars and most next gen games running on UE4. It comes down to devs actually wanting to push boundaries. These guys didnt even change the character models. Literally boasted that they will have the same character models. Unbelievable.

3xxVSLx.gif
Is that Kingdom Hearts 3?
I never played another one but this one looked intriguing a bit.
Interesting it's UE4 and not luminous
 

Lethal01

Member
It's funny you said that because thats precisely what Square Enix is doing with Kingdom Hearts 4. They started dev on UE4, made the reveal trailer on UE4 and then stated that the game will end up using UE5 and will have much better visuals at launch than the trailer. A trailer which looks way better than FF7.
Yes, because what they had at the time was basically nothing, they basically made a movie in UE4 much like they could make a move in some pre rendered game with no impact on the actual game, They were basically at the stage of development rebirth was in when remake launched. Now if you wanna call it deceptive marketing sure, we can agree there.

The Unreal Engine 4 Rebirth trailer and the Australia demo were also UE4 demos. Both looked way better than FF7 Rebirth and Star Wars and most next gen games running on UE4.
Australia thing is a tech demo and not really what you can use to judge what you can do with an actual game. The Rebirth demo however looks the same as what we got basically, maybe with some nice closeups.

Seriously the comparisons you are drawing are just silly.

Literally boasted that they will have the same character models. Unbelievable.

They boasted that they wouldn't be remaking the characters from scratch, which is the smart thing to do, they upgraded the existing models.
 
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CamHostage

Member
Mid development? FF7 shipped in April 2020. PS5's UE5 demo was set to be revealed at GDC in March before covid pushed it back to May, but it was done...

Besides, UE5 is backwards compatible so its not like its a brand new engine. They just didnt want to put in the minimum effort required to transition to a new engine.

UE5 was not "done" in March nor May 2020. Epic showed it as workable tech (in a pre-recorded video demonstration) in May 2020, but even as late as November 2020, elite/pilot level developers did not have access to any builds of those tools.

(The Coalition, for example, is as close to Epic as it gets, and they were intimately involved with Matrix Awakens as well as serve as liaison between Epic and MS, yet they still were working down in UE4 that October, prototyping materials for their first Alpha Point demo. They were probably among the first developers outside Epic to get secreted an early copy, yet it was still months after the UE5 public reveal that Coalition was able to go hands-on with the tech in their office. And BTW, that Alpha Point projects were some rocks on fire and a face. Pretty simple, and even in that, they ended up doing a bunch of custom work instead of using UE5 and assets "off the shelf". For the face project, UE's MetaHuman ended up working for only a portion of the sculpt and groom for the Alpha Point character, to the point where their biggest bulletpoint about Metahuman's value to the project was that it "makes really good teeth and eyes" and that they aligned the topology of their work to MetaHuman as it is future tech which would improve. A developer in a different thread estimated that 90% of the work on the Alpha Point character was beyond MetaHuman, which coincidentally is the same number Coalition mentioned in a 90/10% split between original assets Coalition ended up creating and Quixel materials which worked to plug into the project.)



The timeline of UE5 for developers was a lot more like what we actually saw in public than people conceive of. Epic showed it in 2020, they put out Early Access versions in 2021, they released small-scale but goal-setting works commercially with the Matrix Awakens demo and two major phases of the rebuilt Fortnite in late 2021/late 2022, and they certified the first official UE5 release in April of 2022.

Perception is a problem though, because we gamers are a lot more used to all of this technical stuff happening behind the scenes and us only seeing the "real game" when demos start to pop up using the technology; in this case though, we were there pretty much on the ground floor with the development community. So we saw Lumen in the Land of Nanite 3 years ago and thought, "Oh shit, imagine all the games being made using this right now that we don't even know about...", whereas game makers were looking at that same unveiling and thinking, "Oh shit, imagine what games we could make in the future when we get our hands on this tech..." UE5 was in a functional state in 2020 so that they could demo it in pre-recorded video, and in 2021 it was ready for ER to lead into its 2022 launch with the two launch-surrounding projects helping to serve as proof-of-concept/workshop testbeds, but it wasn't really "done" in those early days, and it still has a lot needed to be worked out despite 3 version updates.

Read through developer reports and you'll see frustrations over the promise versus reality of Nanite or Lumen (albeit an overall positive impression of the technology.) Also, there are some features of UE5 which are still underweight and in need of plugin services to supplement/replace the baseline functions, as well as some features from UE4 for whatever reason now sunsetted from UE5 despite it being that some developers were really dependent upon those functions. And play some of the games: Layers of Fear and Remnant 2 and a few others are out, Immortals Of Aveum will be out this week, First Descendant is doing rounds of beta tests, people can go play actual games and see how the tech worked out or how well their hardware can cope with releases made with it. It's not a hidden secret whether or not this tech automatically makes everything better and more "next-gen". UE5 demos incredibly well, and it is capable of some fantastic feats for gamers and some life-saving workflow refinements for developers, but there's not a magic bullet in UE5's cannon. It's a tool in the fight.

They literally started development after the UE5 demo was shown to the world and said to themselves, hey we will stick with last gen tech, last gen hair, last gen character models. it is laziness, plain and simple.

I am absolutely certain UE5 tests were done to estimate the benefits, tradeoffs, and production timeline extension of migrating to UE5 (and maybe even at various stages of UE5's release states) for both Star Wars (Stig alluded to that) and the FF7 port-over. These types of things are rarely if ever "minimum effort", and although UE5 builds on the foundation of UE4, it is not some Super UE4 with 100% Backwards Compatibility.
 
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Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Is that Kingdom Hearts 3?
I never played another one but this one looked intriguing a bit.
Interesting it's UE4 and not luminous
KH4, which will launch on UE5. As well as DQ12 from Square.

That gif is from a very early build of the game still running on UE4.
 
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CGNoire

Member
And yet its far more impressive than anything we have gotten this gen even the ue5 titles so far....and supposedly done on a 1080ti at 60fps..damn what I wouldn't give to have titles matching or exceeding that fidelity this gen. I have honestly given up hope and have resigned myself to the current shit as the norm.
Yah I thought for sure we'd have gotten that quality by now. Even back way before the Matrix demo which pushed my expectations even higher....shits sad. :(
 

alloush

Member
Yah I thought for sure we'd have gotten that quality by now. Even back way before the Matrix demo which pushed my expectations even higher....shits sad. :(
Just clocked, The Matrix demo came out almost 2 years ago, TWO YEARS AGO, and we are yet to get games that look quarter as good, we are still getting shit looking games that don’t even come close to that demo graphically. As a matter of fact we are going backwards with graphical fidelity. You can imagine how high my expectations were when that demo dropped. Two years later and my expectations are at their lowest, that bar is so low not even an ant can pass from underneath it, lol.
 

alloush

Member
Just watched the latest trailer for First Descendant. That is the minimum of what I expect from this gen, not this apologetic Spiderman 2 crap people are twerking for. Kinda makes you realise that people who are making excuses for all these pathetic looking "next gen" games are bunch of cultists, hence why I just refused to engage with them at this point.
Just seen it. Very decent graphics. This game seems like one of those hidden gems. Honestly, this is the absolute minimum of what I expect graphically this gen.
 

Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Anyway. 2 more driveclub, photo mode
N9wBfTX.jpg


c2qOSGC.jpg
Ah the yearly Drivelcub jerk off
well-there-it-is.gif


You have a weird fetish with last gen looking games man, Driveclub, Forspoken, FF16,....
Man its criminal that we did not get a driveclub remaster, the game had only one shortcoming that was image quality(aa/af) literally even a pro patch could have made it a contender even today.
Nah man, it looked really good back in the day and the weather effects are still one of the best. But its nowhere near current racing games, and i have 100h+ on this game. I have even better looking screenshots of the game but they are al from photomode where its enhanced like crazy (which looks really good). In photomode all last gen games can look current gen. Still a shame Sony never released a PS4Pro patch, the game even had PSVR release but no Pro patch.


DRIVECLUB-20200823044604.png

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DRIVECLUB-20210808133954.png

DRIVECLUB-20210808133832.png

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The CGI argument seems a bit strange because CGI is not some singular entity, there is crappy CGI out there as well that games definitely manage to beat, it's all a matter of budget, time and manpower. As for high quality CGI games are nowhere close to it and never will be simply because you can always render more and better stuff when you're not forced to do it in 33 milliseconds or less.
As for the industry not taking the leap forward visually that we all expected I think it's again a matter of budget, all previous jumps required a massive budget increase to the point where it became unsustainable and a lot of dev studios closed down. To make that next jump in fidelity you'll need even more money, time and people and it's simply not realistic when your game needs to sell over 10 million units just to break even.
The other side of the coin is that for casual players the graphics have long reached the point of good enough and further investment in graphics won't increase your player base by a noticeable amount. The reality is that the best selling games on the market are not the most visually advanced: Minecraft, Fortnite, CoD, Zelda, Mario, GTA 5. GTA 5 has been a top 10 seller for 10 years now and is built around 2005 hardware specs. On the other hand many visually advanced games failed to attract a big enough audience to continue: Ryse, The Order, Driveclub, Alan Wake/Quantum Break, Crysis, etc. It used to be that graphics alone could sell games, but it's no longer the case.
Eventually visuals will hit a peak. When photorealism is available in realtime and pre-rendered formats, visuals will look identical in realtime and pre-rendered formats, but we have along way to go at least another 10 to 20 years IMO…glimpses of perfection are seen in certain mediums today…
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
And yet its far more impressive than anything we have gotten this gen even the ue5 titles so far....and supposedly done on a 1080ti at 60fps..damn what I wouldn't give to have titles matching or exceeding that fidelity this gen. I have honestly given up hope and have resigned myself to the current shit as the norm.
Well when you have posters in this very thread making excuses for lazy devs who dont even bother to upgrade character models, let alone embrace next gen engines, you will continue to have complacent devs making mediocre trash. I find it hilarious that 80 people from Epic were able to get the entire matrix demo up and running in 8 months on an engine that is apparently unusable to big studios like Respawn and SE while B studios are able to make games like Remnant 2, Immortals and Lords of the Fallen just fine.

The problem is that the entire industry is rotten. From suits like Jimbo and Phil Spencer to lazy devs like Square Enix and Insomniac to complacent critics all the way down to gamers themselves. With Fortnite and cod f2p making $2 billion a year, why would anyone spend 6 years $200 million on a game that will limp to $500 million lifetime? Gamers have spoken. They want that f2p trash. They want remakes that look like PS4 games. They want safe as fuck sequels that dont push the envelope.

There is a great line in Batman Begins where Batman is told that gotham is so corrupt because everyone from top to bottom was corrupt and able to be bought. from politicians to cops and garbagemen. That is what this industry is like now. Everyone is responsible for the current state of the industry.
 
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Lethal01

Member
Well when you have posters in this very thread making excuses for lazy devs who dont even bother to upgrade character models, let alone embrace next gen engines, you will continue to have complacent devs making mediocre trash. I find it hilarious that 80 people from Epic were able to get the entire matrix demo up and running in 8 months on an engine that is apparently unusable to big studios like Respawn and SE while B studios are able to make games like Remnant 2, Immortals and Lords of the Fallen just fine.

I'm sorry that you can't think beyond, NEW ENGINE BETTER, DEV SHOULD USE NEW ENGINE.
But reality of development doesn't match up with how gradeschoolers imagine it.
 

H . R . 2

Member
Forza Horizon 5 is far more impressive than this vaseline smeared looking racer, seriously come on.
they were both released in the same year, right? :)
such an apt comparison

(P.S. Despite being a last-gen launch-window game, it looks, at times, better than FH5 in motion, and with far superior weather effects, and I am not even kidding )
 
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The screenshots are 1080p.
And the vaseline you call is shutter speed.

Forza looks great, don't get me wrong. But that's not really the point
I own the game mate, I know what it's like while playing and it's levels below FH4 and 5. You talking like it looks current-gen is nonsense, if this was just you guys reminiscing about a nice looking older game then great but as usual the nonsense comes in. Either way if you really believe it looks current gen have at it my short sighted friend.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I own the game mate, I know what it's like while playing and it's levels below FH4 and 5. You talking like it looks current-gen is nonsense, if this was just you guys reminiscing about a nice looking older game then great but as usual the nonsense comes in. Either way if you really believe it looks current gen have at it my short sighted friend.
I am talking about photo mode.
 
I played Driveclub since day one, even with the multiplayer issues on release I loved the game. But its getting really old with the statements how its never been surpassed. It definately was ahead of its time just like The Order 1886 but Forza Horizon 5 shits all over it. People romanticize how a 10 year old game looks better than current gen. Yeah, its not. Love the game but play it now and see the difference in image quality.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I'm sorry that you can't think beyond, NEW ENGINE BETTER, DEV SHOULD USE NEW ENGINE.
But reality of development doesn't match up with how gradeschoolers imagine it.
Well, thats because you have the memory of a goldfish and dont seem to remember me constantly bringing up the lack of upgrades in the character models. I literally pointed out UE4 demos like Rebirth and Australia that look way better than FF7 rebirth so you are clearly being disingenuous misrepresenting my arguments.

At the end of the day, you are the one defending lazy devs who couldn't be bothered to upgrade the visuals even after switching to next gen. Even after shown examples of B devs who have managed to either improve visuals or switch engines or both in the same amount of time. Seems like some bias in play because otherwise I cant make sense of your bizarre argument about realities of game development that only seem to affect some studios and not others presumably because those studios develop their games in an alternate reality.

Denkeki: “Will Cloud, Barret, and the other main characters have a change in their 3D models from FF7R to FF7 Rebirth?”

Nomura: “No, I don’t think there will be changes; however, after we made some alterations to Yuffie’s model from FF7R Intergrade, some characters did recieve adjustments too.”
 
I really expect Starfield to produce some of the best looking screenshots we've seen yet. The game looks a perfect storm between art and tech.
I like the art direction myself and it definitely has some nice tech…I just hate that Microsoft released a Series S console in the first place, It holds back their games…
 
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