Realtime GI is what it really needed considering all the bounce light the game focused on. It should really use per pixel RT to get directionality to the bounces too not that ambient point light spawing psuedo RT scam.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think Realtime GI will still need to bounce something. The problem is that they did a 1:1 copy pasta without adding any new light sources. In TLOU2, almost every room has lighting peaking through from windows or broken ceilings. Their ugly areas have the same issues as TLOU part 1 because there is nothing that can be lit.
I posted this screenshot from TLOU2 on the very first page of this thread.
The engine even with prebaked lighting has what it takes to illuminate dark interiors with just some flash lights and red emergency lights. Problem with TLOU Part 1 is that they didnt do anything like this. There are no lamps in most interiors. Outdoor lighting is poor because they chose the worse lighting conditions from TLOU2. TLOU2 looks best during cloudy skies or during rain. If they decided to use this engine, they shouldve known its limitations. I honestly couldnt believe how poor bill's town and pittsburgh looked in the remake.
Here is an example of how RE4 places light sources to keep levels from looking stale. These were not always there in the original. Just common sense art design.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think DICE developed this tech in 2019 on frostbite and since Fifa moved to Frostbite, they were able to do this. I have no idea why this wasnt used in Dead Space. Respawn is still using UE4 so that would explain that, but Dead Space and the next Bioware game are next gen only and should be able to use this tech in 30 fps cutscenes like Fifa does with its player shots.
Other games are doing some hair strand stuff. not as impressive as a full blown simulation DICE implemented but I was very impressed by the hair in RE4. On PC, they let you crank it up a notch compared to consoles and it looks WAY better there because the hair strands finally have shadows of their own.
It's not always convincing like with Luis where it flows a bit too much, but Ashley's short blonde hair are flawless.
Mary Jane is getting some nice hair strands as well.
And oddly enough, I noticed some really great hair in some NPCs in Starfield. Sadly because of their ridiculous decision to have them stand still during cutscenes facing you head on, you dont get to see the strand system in action. Im pretty sure its there because you can see it sometimes when they do turn. i legit did a double take on a couple of occassions beause the hair looked so good.
GymWolf
Gold Member
All of that is still noticeably inferior to fifa, kinda crazy.I think DICE developed this tech in 2019 on frostbite and since Fifa moved to Frostbite, they were able to do this. I have no idea why this wasnt used in Dead Space. Respawn is still using UE4 so that would explain that, but Dead Space and the next Bioware game are next gen only and should be able to use this tech in 30 fps cutscenes like Fifa does with its player shots.
Other games are doing some hair strand stuff. not as impressive as a full blown simulation DICE implemented but I was very impressed by the hair in RE4. On PC, they let you crank it up a notch compared to consoles and it looks WAY better there because the hair strands finally have shadows of their own.
It's not always convincing like with Luis where it flows a bit too much, but Ashley's short blonde hair are flawless.
Mary Jane is getting some nice hair strands as well.
And oddly enough, I noticed some really great hair in some NPCs in Starfield. Sadly because of their ridiculous decision to have them stand still during cutscenes facing you head on, you dont get to see the strand system in action. Im pretty sure its there because you can see it sometimes when they do turn. i legit did a double take on a couple of occassions beause the hair looked so good.
Spidey 2 props? Ma boi DaDa is having Christmas in September!Mary Jane is getting some nice hair strands as well.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah because its a full blown simulation where as the other games are still using the strand systems we first saw in tressFx in Tomb Raider.
Frostbite was way ahead of the curve on this. This is from 2019. And Fifa had it implemented by the end of 2020.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
That's a shame. I saw some dude post some screenshots of the XSX version and I couldnt believe my eyes. Absolutely atrocious. Either missing shadows or AO or both. Im not surprised people arent going ga ga over the game's visuals if their only point of reference is the shitty xsx version.
I think the game is far too inconsistent outdoors. I just visited a jungle planet with some dinosaurs and it looked straight out of No Mans Sky. It was cartoonish, ugly, and shockingly modeled. Trees, vegetation, dinosaurs, other alien wildlife, all so bad I couldnt believe it was in an AAA game. They shouldve just focused on fewer planets.
The only thing that works for me outdoors is the lighting and some of the more elaborate outposts. I could swear this game is using some kind of hero lighting because the character model always looks great.
Ignore the LGBT colors of my ship. That was supposed to be gold and red.
H . R . 2
Member
are you ready for Hellblade2?
the facial animation downgrade and IQ/asset quality are already outrageous
[I know the reveal was in-engine but either they lied or they have downgraded things heavily because they couldn't pull it off on Series S
because interestingly. HB2 doesn't have much going for it in terms of AI or physics
and there's nothing stopping the cutscenes from having those facial animations]
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, the first trailer was bullshit, but subsequent trailers have been very impressive despite the downgrades.
I honestly cant be upset at this level of fidelity when all we've gotten so far are glorified last gen games.
The volumetric lighting, the fire effects we all love so much in this thread since that Avatar footage with last gen fire effects, the character models are all a cut above anything we've seen this gen.
Is there a new trailer or something coming out soon?
Lethal why are you like that?
H . R . 2
Member
I reckon there must be at least one more on the way with a release dateIs there a new trailer or something coming out soon?
Lethal why are you like that?
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Of course. These are real time. Game doesn’t look that much different anyway
PeteBull
Member
Thats like image of a woman u meet at a party where u already pretty drunk vs next day when u actually see her for how she really looks, some things cant be unseen =DI posted a pretty good example of this a few pages ago. Cutscenes allow devs to add hero lighting and hero character models that you just dont see during gameplay.
here is sarah in a dialogue scene:
here is what she looks like during gameplay:
i can appreciate how good she looks during that scene but using that as a comparison point to other games ingame character models would be disingenuous.
PeteBull
Member
It was bullshot trailer, bro, devs knew exactly what they were doing, they always do
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Ellie in cutscenes.
Ellie during gameplay.
ND's realtime cutscenes are bullshit. They might as well be prerendered.
Capcom and FF16 devs do the same. though they are not as bad as ND. Id only allow GG comparisons to be posted because they use hero lighting during gameplay with insanely high character models for Aloy.
Alex11
Member
Yeah, FF16 had this ocean and waves in some cutscenes where it was clearly prerendered.Ellie in cutscenes.
Ellie during gameplay.
ND's realtime cutscenes are bullshit. They might as well be prerendered.
Capcom and FF16 devs do the same. though they are not as bad as ND. Id only allow GG comparisons to be posted because they use hero lighting during gameplay with insanely high character models for Aloy.
Remember Rise of the Tomb Raider did this, where water was prerendered, it was all nice and dandy, but when it was time to see it during gameplay I was, "okay were is the real water?". Hated this so much.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
So what third party games are we expecting to see today from Sonys state of play?
These SoPs have traditionally been awful but after 3 years, they are bound to have something next gen. Last year, they had that amazing looking Silent Hill 3 UE5 trailer but its bloober and after Remanant 2 and Immortals performance on consoles, we all know its getting downgraded. Doesnt help that its been MIA since last year despite being announced as a 2023 title.
Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth might also be there. It looks last gen as hell even compared to FF16, but cant hurt to see more of it. Kingdom Hearts was announced last year as a UE5 title, so hopefully they have something to show. But i think with TGS around the corner and square stock crashing, they might just do a big TGS show for their japanese investors instead.
Other than that, Stellar Blade should be there. Decent looking game but nothing special. Maybe MGS3 Snake Eater which looks very last gen in the screenshots. Barely on par with TLOU Part 1. Definitely not the Bluepoint Mark Cerny PS5 MGS remake we wanted.
Death Stranding is a possibility.
Hoping Ubisoft shows up with some Avatar footage, but other than that, i am not sure what else they could have.
These SoPs have traditionally been awful but after 3 years, they are bound to have something next gen. Last year, they had that amazing looking Silent Hill 3 UE5 trailer but its bloober and after Remanant 2 and Immortals performance on consoles, we all know its getting downgraded. Doesnt help that its been MIA since last year despite being announced as a 2023 title.
Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth might also be there. It looks last gen as hell even compared to FF16, but cant hurt to see more of it. Kingdom Hearts was announced last year as a UE5 title, so hopefully they have something to show. But i think with TGS around the corner and square stock crashing, they might just do a big TGS show for their japanese investors instead.
Other than that, Stellar Blade should be there. Decent looking game but nothing special. Maybe MGS3 Snake Eater which looks very last gen in the screenshots. Barely on par with TLOU Part 1. Definitely not the Bluepoint Mark Cerny PS5 MGS remake we wanted.
Death Stranding is a possibility.
Hoping Ubisoft shows up with some Avatar footage, but other than that, i am not sure what else they could have.
Alex11
Member
Death Stranding
Don't know what it was, the use of the right colors, or the sense of scale or something else, I am really hopeful that the sequel can elevate those things and not only.
Death Stranding would be nice, it's where my hope is. Don't know what the consensus is for the first game, but when I first played it I was in awe.
Don't know what it was, the use of the right colors, or the sense of scale or something else, I am really hopeful that the sequel can elevate those things and not only.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Looks good and you are in shadow.... and cutscenes are real time. I dont think ND is using prerendered partsEllie in cutscenes.
Ellie during gameplay.
ND's realtime cutscenes are bullshit. They might as well be prerendered.
Capcom and FF16 devs do the same. though they are not as bad as ND. Id only allow GG comparisons to be posted because they use hero lighting during gameplay with insanely high character models for Aloy.
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Not even looking forward to the showcase, zero interest, ZERO!
If I wanna throw in some hope, I would hope to see some DS2 stuff. Their last trailer was a long ass time ago it feels!
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
But tlou2 cutscenes are not prerendered. That's the big difference and the whole point. It's all fully real time graphics.
In ff16, some parts are prerendered but rarely full cutscenes.
The waves when you fight on the ship are real time but the slash effect is prerendeerd.
The waves when you storm last crystal are real time too and look amazing.
Prerendered water (I think so, looks too good)
Real time water:
GymWolf
Gold Member
Did sony bought the new kojima studio?
The game may be exclusive but kojima is a third party (i think)
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No but Death Stranding is a Sony IP
GymWolf
Gold Member
So like bloodborne?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yes. like bloodborne, demon souls, returnal, the order, all made by third party devs, but sony owns the IP.
Kojima is still a third party studio so technically there is a chance hes there.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Can't wait to cringe into a fetal position
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What difference does it make if they are not pre-rendered when the difference between ingame visuals and cutscene visuals is so massive?But tlou2 cutscenes are not prerendered. That's the big difference and the whole point. It's all fully real time graphics.
In ff16, some parts are prerendered but rarely full cutscenes.
The waves when you fight on the ship are real time but the slash effect is prerendeerd.
The waves when you storm last crystal are real time too and look amazing.
Prerendered water (I think so, looks too good)
Real time water:
You can admire those cutscenes for being realtime but they should be viewed with an asterisks because thats not indicative of actual gameplay.
And yes, that water looks amazing and that is probably the best cutscene ive ever seen in a video game. I actually remember posting about RE0's prerendered backgrounds a few months ago asking why we cant bring them back. If its possible to mix realtime graphics with pre-rendered backgrounds, i say go for it.
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PeteBull
Member
Depends how strong ps6 gonna be, if few times stronger from current strongest gpu/cpu combo that sits in 2,5k usd+ pc rigs, then there is a chance, otherwise maybe ps7 ;D
GymWolf
Gold Member
We just have to see where this gen is gonna end, if you think about it, we haven't seen a single big do doing a fully nextgen game.
not ND, not cdproject (we have W4 for that), not santa monica, not guerrilla, not the team behind tomb raider, no gears team (top dog in their dreams but still capable), no rockstar, no nothing basically.
When the gen is gonna end, we are gonna see how far we are from this trailer.
I think someone between ND or guerrilla or quantic dream or kojima are gonna nail a very similar character quality during real time cutscenes, for how good the characters look, they are probably the "weakest" part of the trailer.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Can be done on UE5 as long as they stick with a 1080p 30 fps target on PS5. At least in cutscenes.
I expect Cyberpunk 2 to look like this. Be it on next gen or current gen.
I am mostly just pissed that these fucking morons have tied their games storytelling to first person trash. This cutscene shows the true potential of cinematic third person storytelling in this universe. A third person game set in this beautiful city with proper animations and cutscene direction wouldve been a game for the ages. This retarded fascination with first person probably doomed this game more than any of the bugs.
Pharaoh 117
Member
I expect this will be a case similar to Uncharted 4's. Bullshit reveal trailer, big downgrades, but in the end it will still be the best looking game at the time of release.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
The "only" thing that is very questionable on console is the lighting (only in quotes becase it's a BFD). The facial animation in this trailer is behind even TLOU2 on PS4; the eyes especially is behind ND capabilities.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
True. I think nd can get there in cutscenes but it’s hard to say without seeing a true next Gen only game from the top tier studios.
The question is can nd do it without ue5. Can nd get over their fascination with native 4k or 60 fps? And most importantly can they do it before 2028? Because at that point we are looking at 2033 before we get their first true ps6 title.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Can you rephrase the first part?
Are you saying that only the lights are impossible on console?
Well if ps5 can handle literal cg then we are in for a ride in the next 3-4 years
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Can you rephrase the first part?
Are you saying that only the lights are impossible on console?
Well if ps5 can handle literal cg then we are in for a ride in the next 3-4 years
Lol is this prerendered??? I thought this was real time captured on 4090 or something. Well my point still stands. The facial animations of a PS4 game are better than this cg trailer. Pretty impressive. But the lighting quality here is perhaps out of reach for base ps5. For PS5 Pro (maybe)/PS6 with dedicated rt silicon, first party budget, and low level api, it's absolutely doable just based off of how fast hardware AND software tech is evolving.
GymWolf
Gold Member
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Good God this is gorgeous. If games looked like that I will never leave the house. Having said that, I just can't see graphics looking like that even on the PS6, hope I am wrong though.
Alex11
Member
Exactly, every cutscene has something that isn't being done during gameplay, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's prerendered, it may be a more detailed face, lighting changes to be more dramatic, whatever effects etc.
The only acceptable cutscenes to judge graphics for me, are for first person games where they hardly change anything, but not all do this, of course.
CherryFalls
Banned
Probably one of the biggest reveal to gameplay downgrades ive ever seen