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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This Hardware unboxed comparison is excellent, one of the best path tracing comparison ive seen, and still made me laugh at the same time. It actually shows how little of a difference Psycho RT made 3 years ago for 50% less performance. Standard rasterization looks better here while Path Tracing obviously looks the best.
Still you gotta wonder why their GI system is illuminating the ceiling. What light source is even psycho RT is using to bounce off of the ceiling?? It seems to me that their lighting system is borked and they are using path tracing to render what shouldve been rendered correctly in the first place.
I went back and pulled some pics of other games and they dont have the same issue with improper GI illuminating the ceiling and other objects that should remain in shadows.
Still you gotta wonder why their GI system is illuminating the ceiling. What light source is even psycho RT is using to bounce off of the ceiling?? It seems to me that their lighting system is borked and they are using path tracing to render what shouldve been rendered correctly in the first place.
I went back and pulled some pics of other games and they dont have the same issue with improper GI illuminating the ceiling and other objects that should remain in shadows.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Xtib81
Member
Still looks better than any spiderman game released to this day
I even dare say it'll give S.man 2 a run for its money (while being a 3yo game)
Rocco Schiavone
Member
No wonder. If you compare a RTX4090 game with an AMD powered APU.Still looks better than any spiderman game released to this day
Remember that this is a comparision of a 360p picture to a high res picture. Nevertheless its not even close but you are telling us its virtually the same?
The CGI trailer actually reminds me of the 2018 Andy UE4 real-time render.
You can tell even in the 360p picture that there are night and day difference.
Hair density (there are actually hair strands and its has volume instead of hair cards)
Hair rendering (its actually casting shadows and receiving shadows)
Overall lighting
Skin rendering (skin actually look realistic and not gamey with right amount of SSS in the right places and right amount of skin light transmission. SM2 look like wax. you can see the difference in specular model (multiple specular lobes) being used on the face and better contact shadowing) Eye rendering (you can tell they are using double normals unlike SM2 and also that SM2 doesn't have reflective/realistic tear duct, lacrimal gland and bottom tear line which are supposed to look wet and reflective and finally eye shadow.).
While I can't see the eyelashes in the 360p picture, i know its not going to look that horribly dithered like in SM2.
Peach fuzz which is lacking on Peter in SM2 but i'm sure would be in the 4k CGI trailer.
etc
This video captures what I'm referring to and if 4k version of the Promo shot is released, you would see it fully.
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arkhamguy123
Member
arkhamguy123
Member
Maybe they could’ve but let’s not forget they sold out to cross Gen. Even back then it was a plague on tech advances. This game had to be an Xbox 360/PS3 game fundamentally. Then simply take the settings from low to medium/high for PS4/XB1
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Insomniac doesnt do PC ports. Nixxes does.
This happened because insomniac just arent ambitious enough. They have lost that drive to be the best. Their bullshot marketing team still hasnt hence that incredible looking Miles model at the end of the Miles reveal which was supposedly captured on PS5. lol
Other Sony studios were able to push way better character models in cutscenes despite being held back by last gen hardware. Or in ND's case, tied to 60 fps and PC ports.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Interesting post overall but I think you're wrong on at least a couple points.
Insomniac doesn't use hair cards, they have a hair strand system and it is computationally expensive even on PC
Peach fuzz was used in SM Remastered and Miles Morales. I doubt they are abandoning it for SM2. Both are on display in this cutscene with miles below
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Every time I play MW2, Ground War - I cant help but think how this game would be the one of the GOATS if it had 30fps fidelity option and destructability. Everything else is fucking on point. Just a little more ambition and it would truly be special. This MP mode really captures the feeling/sound of War.
Minus one BIG thing.
WHEN I THROW A GRENADE. I WANT TO SEE WALLS COLLAPSE.
WHEN I SHOOT A FUCKING TANK MISSLE. I EXPECT WALLS TO CRUMBLE.
WHY IS A 2000 MEMBER DEV TEAM WITH 13 OUTSOURCE STUDIOS AND $300 MILLION DOLLAR BUDGETS NOT DOING THAT?
EDIT:
And then I do a quick google search to see if im the only sane person on earth who wants this... And I see... This shit?
Gamers are happy about this?
People just want the fucking status quo.
Gamer complaints limit developer ambition.
The amount of innovations studios probably have, and dont see through because of fear of backlash.
Fucking pussies - All of them. This is why I respcet and admire Neil Druckmann. Someone who doesn't give a shit about any of that. He makes what he wants.
We are FUCKED. Beyond just graphics and facial animations.
Minus one BIG thing.
WHEN I THROW A GRENADE. I WANT TO SEE WALLS COLLAPSE.
WHEN I SHOOT A FUCKING TANK MISSLE. I EXPECT WALLS TO CRUMBLE.
WHY IS A 2000 MEMBER DEV TEAM WITH 13 OUTSOURCE STUDIOS AND $300 MILLION DOLLAR BUDGETS NOT DOING THAT?
EDIT:
And then I do a quick google search to see if im the only sane person on earth who wants this... And I see... This shit?
Gamers are happy about this?
People just want the fucking status quo.
Gamer complaints limit developer ambition.
The amount of innovations studios probably have, and dont see through because of fear of backlash.
Fucking pussies - All of them. This is why I respcet and admire Neil Druckmann. Someone who doesn't give a shit about any of that. He makes what he wants.
We are FUCKED. Beyond just graphics and facial animations.
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Nah for spiderman they use a hair cards system, regardless of what they try to call the system. When your "hair strand" system is literally just a clump of hair then its a hair card system, they are just calling it hair strands.
It also has the patented hair cards look that gives it right away.
An actual hair strand system is like below and simulates each individual strands of hair. This is why the hair can move in realistic ways and results in realistic shading. Fifa is a good game example of an actual hair strand system (although their physics are all wrong).
I know this is an old video but Fifa uses both hair cards and strands, you can clearly tell which parts are hair cards and when parts are hair strands and when they are using all hair cards or all hair strands. Again Hair strand hair looks completely different than hair card hair, there is a volume and shading that you will never get with hair cards.
I wasn't able to see it in the Story Trailer. Were you able to spot it? Miles might have it in SM2 in their story trailer but its hard to 100% confirm.
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arkhamguy123
Member
Doesn’t matter. I feel like they now develop it with low spec pc’s in mind so nixxies or whatever third party can do their job and make it run on almost any computer that’ll turn onInsomniac doesnt do PC ports. Nixxes does.
This happened because insomniac just arent ambitious enough. They have lost that drive to be the best. Their bullshot marketing team still hasnt hence that incredible looking Miles model at the end of the Miles reveal which was supposedly captured on PS5. lol
Other Sony studios were able to push way better character models in cutscenes despite being held back by last gen hardware. Or in ND's case, tied to 60 fps and PC ports.
Lethal01
Member
Nah, a strand system will have control strands that will control the position of other strands. I may look similar to cars, but it's still different
yamaci17
Member
E-Cat
Member
It will happen once the horsepower allows for a requisite level of physical simulation.Every time I play MW2, Ground War - I cant help but think how this game would be the one of the GOATS if it had 30fps fidelity option and destructability. Everything else is fucking on point. Just a little more ambition and it would truly be special. This MP mode really captures the feeling/sound of War.
Minus one BIG thing.
WHEN I THROW A GRENADE. I WANT TO SEE WALLS COLLAPSE.
WHEN I SHOOT A FUCKING TANK MISSLE. I EXPECT WALLS TO CRUMBLE.
WHY IS A 2000 MEMBER DEV TEAM WITH 13 OUTSOURCE STUDIOS AND $300 MILLION DOLLAR BUDGETS NOT DOING THAT?
EDIT:
And then I do a quick google search to see if im the only sane person on earth who wants this... And I see... This shit?
Gamers are happy about this?
People just want the fucking status quo.
Gamer complaints limit developer ambition.
The amount of innovations studios probably have, and dont see through because of fear of backlash.
Fucking pussies - All of them. This is why I respcet and admire Neil Druckmann. Someone who doesn't give a shit about any of that. He makes what he wants.
We are FUCKED. Beyond just graphics and facial animations.
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H . R . 2
Member
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GymWolf
Gold Member
And red faction on ps2.
H . R . 2
Member
exactly, thanks
sometimes I feel like people enjoy defending mediocrity or imposing their low standards on others
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Schmendrick
Member
Wut....
We´ve had MUCH better destruction with MUCH lower computing capability already. This is not a performance limit issue, this is a priority thing.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Tbf, the more graphical fidelity you have, the more complex to render physics is.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Why do i have strong genshin impact in a modern city vibe from this one?
samoilaaa
Member
exactly , people dont realize that those buildings didnt have the same details and effects as today , it would be hard just the shadows to change for every little rock
GymWolf
Gold Member
I think rtx is gonna solve that because shadows are in real time and not printed into the textures.
On the other hand, who gives a damn about accurate shadows if i can have some more destruction?
H . R . 2
Member
as S Schmendrick mentioned, it is a matter of priorities.
do we want a game built around 150+-player BR matches or a more tightly controlled but frantic one with fewer players? [the fake news about the new MW2]
Activision would never invest their resources in destruction for SP because they know that can't carry over to their MP modes
today, we have all the horsepower we need from the hardware/software; it is just companies now have different criteria for a game's success
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GymWolf
Gold Member
I think it's a mix of priorities and shitty hardware.
Zelda does what it does because it looks like cartoony crap.
H . R . 2
Member
I agree but with PS5/XSX, we could still have as much improvement in graphics and physics in equal proportions as we did back in the 360 era
for instance, here is a game in development, the spiritual successor to Black [ps2] with great visuals/ asset quality and amazing destruction
but unfortunately, physics and destruction are no longer a priority for increasing player engagement
that might change when this comes out
from ex-EA BF3-4 devs
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Exactly. Bad Company 2 popped in my mind the second I read Represent’s post. It had amazing destruction even in MP which made it absolutely amazing. To this day it is my favorite fps game.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Those looks nice but one is barely a tech demo or a very small game at best and the other is an arena shooter, way harder to put that level of physics in a big open world.
I know the discussion started from cod multyplayer, but i could not give less of a fuck about those games
I don't think these console are up to the task.
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Yep same the HDR audio and Destruction have not been matched period.
H . R . 2
Member
we already have released games more or less on par with this tech demo : Trepang2, The Finals, etc.Those looks nice but one is barely a tech demo or a very small game at best and the other is an arena shooter, way harder to put that level of physics in a big open world.
I know the discussion started from cod multyplayer, but i could not give less of a fuck about those games
again it is just a matter of priority
more like the studios
It got fucked in the ass by prebaked lighting, the finals is using rtxgi so they can get away from the shit to do the destruction.
No it just takes more man hours. Its just a bunch of pre-fabricated building with code and destructed asset versiins attached copied and pasted accross the map. The only real additional hurdle in an open world is the larger number of assets that need creating. Its a budget issue not a technical one when it comes to scale here.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Open worlds have the cpu occupied handling dozens if not hundreds of npcs\cars on screen, and cpu is what handle physics.
So yeah you could do it maybe but it won't be as easy to implement as it is in small, stricted games.
The more you have to handle on screen, the less cpu power you have for other things.
Schmendrick
Member
uhm, no, not necessarily. In Fact, the more complex the physics get the less it makes sense to use the CPU for it because the GPU architectures are much faster for these calculations.
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E-Cat
Member
Probably scripted
E-Cat
Member
Yes, graphics being prioritized was implicit in what I said. Prolly should’ve clarified
We COULD have Realistic Bathtub Simulator The Game already if there was demand
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PeteBull
Member
With all those cerny bathtub memes it would be glorious, even in 596p ;P
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GymWolf
Gold Member
But isn't the gpu already occupied rendering everything else and handling stuff like rtx and shit to take care of physics aswell?
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H . R . 2
Member
What do you mean?
as in "pre-baked"?
What game has hundreds of cars?
Or for that matter ones that are "constantly calculated"?
Like what?
The matrix demo only did that as a flex not as an actual use case.
E-Cat
Member
Yes, play-back animation of an offline simulation
yamaci17
Member
SlimySnake
if you ask me, new dlc is mostly baked instead of real time GI. or have to be
rt psycho seems to have limited effect
arkhamguy123
Member
“I won’t elaborate on how it’s cope though lol. I just wanted to get out my 4chan esque snarky reply lol”
yamaci17
Member
it is cope.
ratchet and clank doesn't run correctly or smoothly like it does on PS5 even on upper lowend hardware/midrange hardware. try those portal sections on something like ryzen 3600, run off the mild 2 gb/s pcie3 nvme ssd and see four yourself. .it is not held back by "lowend PCs". nor will the spiderman 2.
it will, at best, release in 2025. by the 2025, lowend PC will be a rtx 5060 and a zen 3 CPU , that is still miles ahead of PS5
get ahead of yourself. spiderman 2 wont be running on current day lowend pc, such as 2060/3700x rigs. it will be a detestable experience at best.
when it does land on PC, lowest end PC will most likely demolish whatever PS5 has to offer. so in that respect, you're really coping and its just funny.
arkhamguy123
Member
So much bloaviating and ultimately wrong.
Every PC port has specs it runs on under the PS5‘s specs. Ratchet included.
Also I’d bet money SP2 will run fine on a 2060
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I like how path tracing in this game just means more shadows.
if you ask me, new dlc is mostly baked instead of real time GI. or have to be
rt psycho seems to have limited effect
That mech in your comparison shot for instance. I guess its more realistic shadows now, but is it better? I dont think so. If anything the artists put the lighting below to give it a nice glow and path tracing compltely overrides artistic intent. Starfield has the same mech and looks better, and it has no RTGI or path tracing.
yamaci17
Member
here's how hogwarts legacy RUNS on a gtx 660
good luck
here's how forspoken works on a 2070 super (or any 8 gb card, really)
and this is what happens when you MATCH ps5 settings in spiderman on a 2070 (huge vram limitations, once again)
this is what ratchet and clank expereince looks like on a run off the mill upper end lowend PC. compare that to how smoothly PS5 operates these sections at around 60 fps average with only small microstutter (momentary)
but sure! these games are definitely made with lowend PCs in my mind.
you must forget last of us part 1, which was designed for PS5 and made a joke out of all 8-10 GB cards universall. they specifically had to reengineer solutions to bring texture streaming speeds and improved texture quality presets. but sure.
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