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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Speaking of bullshots, one game in particular has been irking me as of late; Tekken 8.
Here's what the first trailer (which, to be fair, was stated to be in-engine and not in-game [still quite misleading though]) looked like:
And here's what recent gameplay footage looks like:
Character models look more or less the same, but almost everything else has been downgraded to absolute hell.
It seems like the first trailer was using Lumen or some kind of GI. The actual game seems like it has no GI implementation at all.
Here's what the first trailer (which, to be fair, was stated to be in-engine and not in-game [still quite misleading though]) looked like:
And here's what recent gameplay footage looks like:
Character models look more or less the same, but almost everything else has been downgraded to absolute hell.
It seems like the first trailer was using Lumen or some kind of GI. The actual game seems like it has no GI implementation at all.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
what?
Are you telling me this is not a marketing cgi artwork ?!
This is not a bullshot. This is bullshit
Xtib81
Member
Lol, y'all keep me young I swear
Ngl, you see things that I don't. Under the right conditions, the Matrix tech demo could pass as a CGI render. The second you see spiderman 2, you can tell it's just a video game, their lighting is for far behind it's not even funny, and I'm not even mentioning geometry complexity and LOD.
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Nah, to think there are actually people who don’t think The Matrix demo looks gorgeous is crazy. And to think there are people who say we are decades away from reaching photorealism is ever crazier. This gif could easily pass as a real life movie scene. If I show it to a thousand people all one thousand of them will say this is real life.But here is a bigger version of that gif. No shimmering other than 1 building far to the right which is a bug that affects certain type of buildings in the demo. Every other buiulding, lamp post, fire escape ladders are all pristine.
I am never deleting this demo ever until it gets surpassed graphically!
Luipadre
Member
Are you really proud of all that shimmering? So much for draw distance. Nah, that ain't next gen.
vs.
The choice is obvious fellas...
Yes, one is a game and the other one isnt
Slothbeing1209
Member
First trailer is what them aiming for. Sadly they won't able to reach that.
Even Harada said that he still feels the game doesn't look good like he want it to be.
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ChiefDada
Member
THE MARKETING SHOTS IS HOW THE GAME LOOKS! There is no "cgi artwork" it was real-time on a PS4 Pro as the picture says. You guys are so weird
Based on the first trailer and what we've seen so far, I'm not even sure the first trailer was in the realm of possibility for them to reach.
It's super disappointing because Tekken 8 as it stands isn't using any crazy current-gen/UE5 tech. It's not demanding in the least.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
No. That previous shot 100% was not real time dudeTHE MARKETING SHOTS IS HOW THE GAME LOOKS! There is no "cgi artwork" it was real-time on a PS4 Pro as the picture says. You guys are so weird
I_D
Member
It looks great, no doubt about it. You're kinda falling for your own hype, though.
There is obvious reflection-flickering in the background and foreground for the entire duration of the .gif. The back-right building and the front-left red car look particularly bad.
Most of the objects on the ground don't have shadows until the camera gets close to them.
The motion blur hides the low-res textures on the buildings, but they still have a long way to go.
The geometry is too perfect and the ground is too flat, which makes everything look like props on a field, instead of an actual world.
There's no breeze, or bugs, or birds, or trash, or dust, or imperfections, anything like that.
Real-time software still has a very long way to go before it can convincingly render life-like graphics.
I see no reason why graphics like in the Matrix Demo won't be common-place within the next few years.
Cmon man that’s nitpicking. Yes there are those you mentioned but I promise you I didn’t even see those things until you pointed them out to me so imagine a more casual gamer or a non-gamer they will easily think this is a scene from a movie.
Though you are right with your analysis in general we still have a ways to go before we reach proper photorealism but it aint as far off as some people think!
anothertech
Member
Ya, ppl in denial the demo is even real. It's blowing people's minds that this is reality lol.
Lethal01
Member
Yeah just 3 more years or so and we will be able to render the latest Avatar movie in real time.
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Yessiiiiiir (I know you are being sarcastic
)Those same people in denial *cough* Lethal *cough* if you showed them the demo and told them it was a movie they woulda believed you. It’s cool downplaying shit all the time I guess!
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
Oh it's far off as I personally think. I would not be surprised at all if videogame companies won't have the man hours to even pull off the quality we've seen in CG films from almost two decades ago.
But that’s the thing in a few years, if a game comes out that looks just a bit better than incredible The Matrix demo then that, to me at least, is photorealism or very close to it. Any game that eclipses The Matrox demo graphically, and we will see that on the PS6, has reached almost photorealistic levels of graphics. Even Tim Sweeney said you need around 40tflops to reach photorealism, a number we should theoretically reach in the next two gens. Why are some people so against this idea? It is like some people don’t want this to happen for whatever reason, they’d rather be right than games reach new, unprecedented levels of graphics, lol.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
No this is trolling. Wrong thread. System wars is that way.This is best Graphic?
Remove the next gen infinite and persistent AI system (MassCrowdAI) and you gain 25+ FPS (You can easily hit 60 FPS depending on your GPU)
Are you being serious right now?
3:45 time stamped
Even the pic you posted showcases buildings that are just the next street over looking like cardboard cut out boxes compared to the Matrix where they maintain their 3dness even miles into the horizon.
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ChiefDada
Member
Why are you always bringing up Avatar as the benchmark? Avatar is top tier, no one is saying we can match that specific level but can they broadly reach the realm of lesser quality CG this gen? Damn right and we already have. Go see the Lions Unity demo. You posted the TLOU2 cinematic trailer released a few years ago. If you think a PS5 Pro with dedicated RT intersect and traversal on top of extra gpu grunt won't reach that general level of fidelity, you're smoking something real strong.
Lol, are you joking? UE5 is the one using billboards, not SM2
Those are not billboards, those are 3d model buildings with millions of triangles (349,134 * how many of them are scattered in the area). But that's more triangles than SM2 playable area most-likely . And that's a none-playable area for the Matrix.
The trees in SM2 how-ever are straight 2d billboards at certain distances.
You can see it clearly in the story trailer.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It’s been there since forever. Some people just like to be buzz kills. I had this last Gen, the gen before kzsf was revealed. People just have no imagination.
Problem is everyone has phoned in this Gen and while Matrix proved us right 2 years ago, people use the Its just a demo excuse to dismiss it.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
Lol alloush you don't think I want them graphics too? I'm just being realistic. Listen, I'm the biggest Epic Games fan in this thread, and for me personally I still see all the same Unreal Engine tricks in that demo; Once I take that demo outside of the context of videogames...it's far off.
Oh you do, I was referring to the other negative nancies, lol!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Actually it’s a playable area and there are 3d models. I once glitched into the sea and was able to drive all the way to the other side of the river into those buildings and they are properly modeled. There are no streets, just a bunch of buildings connected by alleyways. But it’s still a 3d space.
I recorded it but i don’t know if i ever uploaded it.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
You will never see billboards in Epic Games work, even going back to the original Gears of War on the Xbox 360. Even for distance objects Epic Games typically will use orthogonal meshes.
ChiefDada
Member
Lol what!? I don't really care what you think they look like but those are 3d geometric structures full stop. But you should still get your eyes checked.
Jesus Christ dude the section I circled are 2d billboards, they are not made up of millions of triangles! And this is fine. Many games before the Matrix have used them for the same purpose. No one would expect them to be anything more because it is a demo and that is not the area they designed to be showcased. Like, are you serious right now??. What you're arguing here is akin to whether the earth is flat. It's not even a subjective topic lol.
Which is why I told you not to foolishly judge the story trailer as a finished product
Nah most of the 3d geometry are LOD'ed out. Which is why it looks like wallpaper. Aka look at the perched pictures that Slimy has posted repeatedly.
Lol dude you should really check to make sure your statement are true before making posts.
I understand posting wrong information with no expectation of being corrected works great in other threads.
But this is the area you circled which i flew to using the editor camera. This is just one set of merged models in that areas. And if you would glance at nanite triangles, you would see that its 349,134k. Just like i previously stated. You know how i knew? I actually checked before i made my initial post.
There are dozens of these models. Hence the background building area you circled which are all around the city consist of millions of triangles and most importantly. They are 3d buildings and not 2d billboard cut out like the trees in SM2.
Its also in the final trailers.
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Lumpyoatmeal
Member
Imagine having to place Gears of War cover links for all those meshes using the Unreal Editor workflow from like '07; Don't forget about them sandbags.Nah most of the 3d geometry are LOD'ed out. Which is why it looks like wallpaper. Aka look at the perched pictures that Slimy has posted repeatedly.
Lol dude you should really check to make sure your statement are true before making posts.
I understand posting wrong information with no expectation of being corrected works great in other threads.
But this is the area you circled which i flew to using the editor camera. This is just one set of merged models in that areas. And if you would glance at nanite triangles, you would see that its 349,134k. Just like i previously stated. You know how i knew? I actually checked before i made my initial post.
There are dozens of these models. Hence the background building area you circled which are all around the city consist of millions of triangles and most importantly. They are 3d buildings and not 2d billboard cut out like the trees in SM2.
Its also in the final trailers.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Exactly.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
The Matrix Demo looks photorealistic in some scenes.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
THIS THIS THIS THIS ^^^^!!!!!
One other thing I'd add to that is the consoles are not capable of easily achieving Matrix quality visuals unless the engine and entirety of development is focused on it from the beginning.
We've seen how limited they are in games that ARE pushing next gen tech such as Cyberpunk, SW Jedi Survivor, and FF16. There's only so far even an ambitious dev like CD Project is able to go. We should have a goof idea of where the limits are. Advanced RT is pretty much off the table, native resolution and framerate must be sacrificed at some point. I know "but Avatar" but we've yet to see how bad the resolution will be.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Dog town looks good. It's supposed to look dirty and run down but there's a lot of detail packed in there.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
nah, these are ps5 screens and they look decent, but not quite there. Lighting and asset quality are a bit behind starfield. the pro version is even worse. Great looking game though.
I think Callisto's lighting is great. They pull off the look of RT gi except it's baked. That's a tough call between Starfield and Callisto since Starfields lighting us dynamic. One thing I'll say is on Series X Starfields interiors look whack, totally washed out and lacking AO which is why I was so confused to hear the complete opposite from you. Outdoor lighting looks beautiful though.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
UE5 is amazing.
This is from the Bright Memory dev. Apparently he put this together in hours. Even if it took him days or weeks, its crazy that a one person studio can do this with UE5.
We are so close to photorealism already.
This is from the Bright Memory dev. Apparently he put this together in hours. Even if it took him days or weeks, its crazy that a one person studio can do this with UE5.
We are so close to photorealism already.
SolidQ
Member
Amazing, but i'm tired of these demos. Where real games with those graphic?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Thats a shame. Almost every interior i go into is immaculately detailed and lit. I am keeping the hazy filters on unlike other PC gamers because I feel like it gives the lighting a volumetric effect, and preserves the original artist intent.
Neo_game
Member
So far few games that used it requires a 4090 to run games at 1440P 60fps and on console it is 720P 60fps. Even those games are uneven visually.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
this explains a lot. and why they only have one big SP game out this year. in the 3rd year of the gen. And absolutely nothing announced for next year. someone was telling me that wolverine was announced as a 2024 title but we havent seen anything on it yet. Maybe it does come out, but that means aside from insomniac, no one from sony first party has any clue on how to make games.
Just pulled up the city sample and those distant buildings dont look like 2d to me. i wasnt able to glitch into them but even from afar they look 2d.Nah most of the 3d geometry are LOD'ed out. Which is why it looks like wallpaper. Aka look at the perched pictures that Slimy has posted repeatedly.
Lol dude you should really check to make sure your statement are true before making posts.
I understand posting wrong information with no expectation of being corrected works great in other threads.
But this is the area you circled which i flew to using the editor camera. This is just one set of merged models in that areas. And if you would glance at nanite triangles, you would see that its 349,134k. Just like i previously stated. You know how i knew? I actually checked before i made my initial post.
There are dozens of these models. Hence the background building area you circled which are all around the city consist of millions of triangles and most importantly. They are 3d buildings and not 2d billboard cut out like the trees in SM2.
Its also in the final trailers.
Honestly, chiefdada has gotten pretty much everything wrong here. I dont even know why he feels compelled to shit on the matrix. i literally conceded that spiderman 2 looks good just yesterday and he goes and does this. its practically blasphemy to shit on the matrix demo in this thread lol.
ChiefDada
Member
Yes, I was wrong. They are rudimentary 3d imposters with low quality 2d textures wrapped around. Similar to what spider-man ps4 did.
Because it's merits as a benchmark of what ACTUAL GAMES should be achieving are overstated and it's flaws are both significant and overlooked.
One of the unfortunate, embarrassing truths about this thread.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Inmortals got an update recently that makes it run at 960p instead of 720p. Dev on reddit said that they could do even better.
I think they should’ve just done a dynamic 1440p with tsr to 4k like the matrix at 30 fps. No idea why dead space and immortals devs are targeting 60 fps without offering a 30 fps mode on consoles. Especially when 40 fps hits that sweet spot without sacrificing fidelity.
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Not really. It has its fair share of haters, inexplicably!
It's an interesting video about speculations and rumours concerning next gen consoles. There are three points in the video that concern me. Firstly it mentions that we'll probably won't see path tracing implementation in games. Wouldn't you think that we would see path tracing in some degree? At least at the level rtx 4090 can handle right now? Secondly it talks about how ps6 is rumoured by developers to offer big advancements in game physics. Although that would be exciting I'm concerned that maybe they'll again offer a lukewarm upgrade in graphics. Long story short, ideally i would like to see a big leap in all three, physics, graphics and AI. And lastly it is mentioned that although Next gen xbox will be a sufficient step up from Series X, Microsoft wants to keep the price of the console low and even launch earlier than Sony, as early as 2026. Maybe that will prevent it from being a true generational leap graphically?
Lethal01
Member
???Oh they are, in this thread even, some well known names too. maybe you weren't here for it but somehow saying we aren't reaching avatar level was laughed at.
I will indeed say we have surpassed the original toystory in some aspects
I'm sure people will tell me that we have, people told me that the matrix demo did, I will continue to laugh at those people.