MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Yeah, LOL indeed. TLOU is a linear game with baked lighting. Cyberpunk is none of these things.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Yeah, LOL indeed. TLOU is a linear game with baked lighting. Cyberpunk is none of these things.
geary
Member
You’ll prefer to wait half a decade for 2-3 games of 20-30 hours. If that’s bot devotion, i dont know what it is.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
This looks very promising.
3D Gaussian Splatting for Real-Time Radiance Field Rendering
3D Gaussian Splatting for Real-Time Radiance Field Rendering
repo-sam.inria.fr
Alex11
Member
Not anything against TLOU2 as it's a gorgeous game, but yeah, the character model in CP is in gameplay and the one in TLOU2 is in a cinematic.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
More new Spidey 2 footage tonight. though they could just re-use old footage
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Easily. I dont even play the shitty/low effort/ugly/40 hour games anyway, so might as well wait on quality ones
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
this is that cg trailer.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Photomode gameplay yes.
But yes, thats bottom barrel twitter system wars trolling. We all know TLOU2 ingame character models dont look too hot.
But then again, Idris doesnt look that great in other gameplay shots either.
I dont mind people comparing two 2020 games. Even if one is open world and the other mostly linear. Phantom Liberty is still just a DLC built on the 2020 base game. Back in 2020, having played both, I chose TLOU2 and i still would. But i have my reasons, namely the fantastic lighting, foliage, motion matching animations, facial animations and cutscenes quality. But to use it to shit on PC or path tracing and big up consoles is just retarded.
I really hope
SolidQ
stops posting this nonsense because we already have enough problems with fanboys on gaf. we dont need outside twitter fanboys shitting up this thread. If you have a comparison to post, go ahead and feel free to write something up and provide evidence. I would love to discuss why i believe TLOU2 overall has better fidelity than Cyberpunk, but this twitter shit however does not belong in this thread.
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Lethal01
Member
PS7 graphics
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
arkhamguy123
Member
Now this is what we expected Spiderman 2 to look like.
in beforeChiefDada tells us SM2 already looks close or better
Nah that would’ve required insomniac to ya know, try
Nah that can be easily done next gen PS6/Xbox.
Mainly due to the ML/Tensor-core like chip.
Providing DLSS3-like upscaling while also leveraging frame generation to get to 60fps.
I would have said no if DLSS 3 and FG wasn't a thing.
But this would allow devs that are actually serious to target native 1400p-1800p / 60 fps and still provide photo-realism with all the ray tracing features turned on.
I don't know about your, but i don't think there will be 30fps games next gen.
(Heck being honest alot of this is doable this gen with UE5)
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I love the matrix demo, probably appreciate what it achieves more than most here, I simply laugh at people trying to claim it's close to photorealism, I can think something is an amazing technical achievement without thinking it's close to photorealism, The matrix demo and unreal engine are both showcases of a ridiuclous graphical achievement, like going from toystory 1 to the incredibles, but there is still a giant gap between the incredibles and the incredibles 2 and claiming the gap the gap is small and will close in a few years is laughable..
but I suppose my eye for photorealistic images is better than most, some people even tried to convince me that they wouldn't have known the matrix demo weren't just shots from the movie if nobody told them.
That last line makes me feel snobby, but the alternative is accepting you all are blind as shit and haven't looked at the real world in a decade.
What do you think about the unity enemies demo and do you think we can have games with that fidelity this gen?
Lethal01
Member
Sure, it would doable in a way that would leave it looking like Spiderman 2 does. not doable at the level it was done in that trailer which was rendered spending minutes on each frame.
I think it looks nice, good animation, imperfect lighting, nice fabric.
Just cause it's not photorealistic or matching CGI doesn't mean it isn't great.
I think that we'll see something close to the enemies tech demo next gen. And i expect that to be the norm for all in game characters by ps7.
When do you see something like that being possible in real time?
DanielG165
Member
^ Not for a while, imo, though I’m not nearly as well versed in the graphical/VFX side of things as many other members here are. CGI on that level, I just couldn’t see a console pumping results like that out in real time.
I’m reminded somehow of the CGI opening scene from Sonic Unleashed. It’s an absolutely brilliant sequence that no game thus far has come close to in terms of real time visuals, and that was a 2008 cutscene. We’ll see of course, but there’s a reason why it takes render farms and petabytes of data to render high quality CGI.
I’m reminded somehow of the CGI opening scene from Sonic Unleashed. It’s an absolutely brilliant sequence that no game thus far has come close to in terms of real time visuals, and that was a 2008 cutscene. We’ll see of course, but there’s a reason why it takes render farms and petabytes of data to render high quality CGI.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
In game graphics? nah. But realtime cutscenes are getting very close to this. The Matrix cutscenes are very close to CG, and ND was already pushing extremely high fidelity cutscenes last gen with a 1.8 tflops GPU.
While pre-rendered cutscenes and CG will always look better than realtime graphics, the GPUs of today are capable of some insane graphics computation. Especially when you can zoom in up close and render only what you decide to show with everything blurred out in the background.
This is a cutscene running realtime on a PS5.
This is running realtime as well.
Remember insomniac said this was running realtime on PS5.
So assuming they werent lying about it. They were able to get their cutscenes running at this level of fidelity before downgrading even the cutscenes for the final game.
Maybe they ran out of time and had to leave this lighting and modeling system behind. But stuff like this is possible at least in realtime cutscenes.
P.S Obligatory Matrix gif looking better than that spiderman 2 cg trailer.
In on-rails setpieces, we can get realtime graphics like this. again, better than the spiderman 2 cg trailer even if its not as clean in terms of image quality.
So would you expect in game graphics to reach this level in ps6?In game graphics? nah. But realtime cutscenes are getting very close to this. The Matrix cutscenes are very close to CG, and ND was already pushing extremely high fidelity cutscenes last gen with a 1.8 tflops GPU.
While pre-rendered cutscenes and CG will always look better than realtime graphics, the GPUs of today are capable of some insane graphics computation. Especially when you can zoom in up close and render only what you decide to show with everything blurred out in the background.
This is a cutscene running realtime on a PS5.
This is running realtime as well.
Remember insomniac said this was running realtime on PS5.
So assuming they werent lying about it. They were able to get their cutscenes running at this level of fidelity before downgrading even the cutscenes for the final game.
Maybe they ran out of time and had to leave this lighting and modeling system behind. But stuff like this is possible at least in realtime cutscenes.
P.S Obligatory Matrix gif looking better than that spiderman 2 cg trailer.
In on-rails setpieces, we can get realtime graphics like this. again, better than the spiderman 2 cg trailer even if its not as clean in terms of image quality.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
in 2033 yes. before that, these fucking devs will be making ps5 cross gen games.
This is super disingenuous. Especially with the fact that you can load the entire scene into UE5 with nanite but if you tried with SM2's engine it will likely crash.
Lets actually dig into this statement.
Can you point out exactly where UE5 is failing at in respect to this CGI trailer and this is a subpar CGI trailer to begin with in both geometry and lighting compared to other game CGI trailers (the division 2, etc).
There are 4 categories: Geometric Density, Lighting, Material Rendering / Quality and VFX.
Point out which one UE5 fails in respect to this trailer and which it can match.
Here is my breakdown while going through the trailer shot by shot at 0.25 speed:
- Lighting
- At first I thought this was a fail but when you break it down shot for shot.
- Its actually a pass for the most part, majority of the shots can be replicated using hardware Lumen
- Infact shots (0:23, 0:25, 0:38 and if i was more talented then 55)
- Heck the more i look at it, the more i think it was rendered in UE5
- Geometric Density
- This is a pass
- Nanite handles trillions of triangles, infact the geometry of the destroyed rubbles are way less dense compared to what was done in acouple of days in this trailer
- Timestamp 2:40
- Material Rendering / Quality
- This is a pass
- The material quality of UE5 is really great. They have made recent improvements in areas that were seriously lacking such as:
- reflections and translucency, there are no materials/shading happening in this trailer that UE5 wouldn't be able to match
- VFX
- This is a pass
- Only because there are no substantial VFX happening in this trailer, if there was then it would be an immediate fail.
- I believe VFX will be the last area in gaming that will be cg-complete (very likely PS7).
Thats the thing, just because it has imperfect lighting doesn't mean it doesn't look like CGI. CGI isnt about how perfect the lighting is.
Or even how photoreal it is. Its about how convincing it is. Something can look clearly CG (as clearly the humans in this trailer).
But its about how convincing the lighting is in the environment and the characters.
This trailers is obviously multiple tiers above the SM2 trailer yet they are both CGI.
This is called goal shifting. Happens alot in a whole lot of industries.
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Now this is what we expected Spiderman 2 to look like.
in before
What exactly is so "next gen" looking about this particular Spider-Man 2 trailer? The lighting is flat,the only thing that stands out is the number of cars and the interaction of the world with regards to powers. Honestly,the world interaction doesn't look like something impossible to achieve on the PS5, throw in some decals and canned animations for the car physics.
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Ive seen this before and I feel like Im missing something here.
Why is this important to the field of realtime graphics exactly? It just looks like an alternative to photogrammetry? Its not like there rendering anything dynamic with it. It looks to just be a static photogrammetry scene.
What am I missing?
Exactly, it looks like something that can be done this gen for the most part. Which is why its so shocking that Insomniac couldn't even get a country distance close to it.
Its almost like they didn't even try.
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But Spider-Man 2 is a stylized game and it's trying to be ultra realistic in terms of the visuals.
Are you seriously trying to argue that the visual fidelity is similar or close? SM2 literally has no geometry compared to this.
You ppl need to stop, its not even funny anymore.
When do you see this being the norm in graphics for almost every AAA and AA game?
The graphics for this is straight out of the Ninety Days Quixel trailer. Definitely doable this gen for the most part.
Street scene remind me of Alan Wake 2. So technically its already happening.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What bothers me the most in the cg trailer is Spiderman crashing into cars and vans sending them back. Applying proper destruction physics to them. this was actually something insomniac added in the reveal trailer where they had an enemy crash into a lamp post and it bends realistically. that gave me hope that spiderman 2 would have actual physics based destruction where cars, and other world objects like street lamps would be interactive, but nope. same old ps4 era crap.
Miles actually had some pretty cool destruction indoors, but nothing outdoors. its crazy how 3 years of dev time of miles were not spent on something like this.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
I told you don’t touch that darn thing.
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PeteBull
Member
I agree, ps6/next xbox probably will be around 4090 power wise, and that cgi trailer is visibly beyond what 4090 can run, maybe if it was some silly switch resolution 496p with fsr put on top but then ofc it would look like blurry mess, not so clean like in the trailer.
sertopico
Member
Yes in CP characters can look great or look much worse, cause of the lighting, since they also messed some stuff up after the latest update... But when it works it's better than anything else basically (TLOU animation system still wins though):Photomode gameplay yes.
But yes, thats bottom barrel twitter system wars trolling. We all know TLOU2 ingame character models dont look too hot.
But then again, Idris doesnt look that great in other gameplay shots either.
I dont mind people comparing two 2020 games. Even if one is open world and the other mostly linear. Phantom Liberty is still just a DLC built on the 2020 base game. Back in 2020, having played both, I chose TLOU2 and i still would. But i have my reasons, namely the fantastic lighting, foliage, motion matching animations, facial animations and cutscenes quality. But to use it to shit on PC or path tracing and big up consoles is just retarded.
I really hope
This is just a random NPC (hair shadows will be fixed in the next update
)
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Lethal01
Member
Even the most basic, flat lighting will still be wrong using many modern game engines. This is a random example of the kind of inaccuracies you get.
Take this single little thing and multiply it by every object in the scene and you get everything looking a bit wrong.
This is an an offline renderer.
in a realtime game engine you have many, many more of these kinds of issues, combine that with low sample counts and issues cause by the denoiser, the low number of bounces, the lack of caustic, inaccurate subsurface scattering incorrect refraction, etc etc etc etc etc.
So no, it doesn't look next gen, it looks way ahead of it.
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arkhamguy123
Member
So they’re 2028 machines and you think they’ll just be at a top of the line card from 5-6 years prior?
Yeah I'm also expecting an upgrade beyond that performance. Maybe 120-150 teraflops. So closer to rtx 5090 releasing in 2025.
Take a breather. This current Spider-Man trailer doesn't look that impressive to me for people complaining about the current build of Spider-Man in terms of visuals. Outside of the amount of cars and world interaction,this trailer isn't spectacular in terms of visuals.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Nobody ran that lion demo. We only saw it on yt.In game graphics? nah. But realtime cutscenes are getting very close to this. The Matrix cutscenes are very close to CG, and ND was already pushing extremely high fidelity cutscenes last gen with a 1.8 tflops GPU.
While pre-rendered cutscenes and CG will always look better than realtime graphics, the GPUs of today are capable of some insane graphics computation. Especially when you can zoom in up close and render only what you decide to show with everything blurred out in the background.
This is a cutscene running realtime on a PS5.
This is running realtime as well.
Remember insomniac said this was running realtime on PS5.
So assuming they werent lying about it. They were able to get their cutscenes running at this level of fidelity before downgrading even the cutscenes for the final game.
Maybe they ran out of time and had to leave this lighting and modeling system behind. But stuff like this is possible at least in realtime cutscenes.
P.S Obligatory Matrix gif looking better than that spiderman 2 cg trailer.
In on-rails setpieces, we can get realtime graphics like this. again, better than the spiderman 2 cg trailer even if its not as clean in terms of image quality.
Nobody ran hellblade2. It’s just a trailer.
Insomniac lied about first sm2 trailer.
Matrix is the hope we can have for next gen
Cyberpunk
Playing through Cyberpunk 2.0 with path tracing and it’s by far the most next-gen shit I’ve ever seen.
Sure my performance is cut by more than half, but it’s worth it.
Masterofchapter
Banned
Ubisoft games character models suck their environment looks way better
Games
Are you referring to this? Everything here can be done even better in current gen other than the big explosions. The clean art-style really makes it easy.
Even the electricity effect looked better than the cgi trailer. Honestly to me it was a clear lie
Because there is a clear gap, one looks clearly like a geometry flat video game, the other looks like an average cgi.
PeteBull
Member
Lets hope im wrong, but atm what amd is doing doesnt give me much confidence, we will know roughly how good ps6 is by comparision to ps5pr0, ps4pr0 was about 2,5x weaker from ps5 so with slowed down progress gap from ps5pr0 to ps6 definitely wont be bigger.
Edit: I wish it wasnt the case but if we take a look back at how progress gen over gen was slowing down, its pretty grim picture, dunno who is at fault here, but u can see clearly gradual slow down of progress pace, ps1 to ps2 was probably around 100x difference in power, maybe bit less, but still humongous, at least if we look at hardware specs.
Ps4 to ps5 gpu wise is barely 5,5x increase ;/
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Don't you think that since rx 7900 xtx is around 60 teraflops and since rdna 4 is rumoured to be double that, the ps6 in 2028 will have around 120+ teraflops?
mrMUR_96
Member
For raster performance, AMD is quite good, but they're very behind on ray tracing currently.
Let's hope that by then rdna will have caught up at least to the level of rtx 4090 in ray tracing performance...
Kenpachii
Member
From what i heard is that there next high end flag ship gpu is a long time away.
but yea ps6 will be 100+ tflops.
Lethal01
Member
Nah, to make this work in realtime you would need to render it with less samples and less light bounces, lots more noise and smearing. The fur and explosions are also better.
But hey it's from 2008, we could come a bit closer than what people are usually posting on here and there are aspects we could do better.
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Thaedolus
Member
Playing Cyberpunk after upgrading my PC and the 2.0 update has been jaw dropping. Especially at night in certain areas, the path tracing just makes everything pop.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dude the ps5 and xsx are on par with the 1080 ti with ray tracing support. That gpu came out 4 years before the ps5. 4090 came out last year, 6 years before ps6 is supposed to come out.
Xbox has already said that they will be using navi 5. The 7000 series is navi 3. Navi 3 is already at 4nm. We should be at 2nm by then.
PeteBull
Member
Dont look at tflops numbers, those recent gen gpus both from nvidia and from amd got them inflated vs actual performance in games, few pages back we did comparision, just look at this instead https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-5700-xt.c3339
Example- rx 6800= 16,7 tflops, 2% weaker on avg rx 7700xt= 35,17tflops
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samoilaaa
Member
i think thats because spider man 2 was build as a ps4 game , i remember it was a leak that it was suposed to be a cross gen game