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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
GymWolf
Gold Member
On console with limited power? sure.This video is a perfect example of why Resolution > Framerate
On a beefy pc? nah.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I feel like this game has aged itself out of being impressive. It was impressive 4 years ago when nothing even came close, but now it's like ok, it looks sufficiently current gen. Lets move on.
Decent volumetric lighting, great looking rocks and textures, but those dated souls mechanics im done with. Easy skip for me. Im much more interested in Dragons Dogma despite it looking last gen as fuck.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Kinda the same, but it also received a downgrade compared to the very first trailer, the first trailer would be glorious even now.
Dogma 2 is day one for me, but the first one was a DEEPLY flawed game so for me it's a bit of a leap of faith with the sequel...
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This on the other hand is absolutely insane. 4000 soldiers on screen at once. Each properly animated and AI driven. No horde bullshit. Fully controllable. Even horses are included in the 4000 figure. Developers are doing a lot of the NPC animations on the GPU before switching to the CPU when you place the cursor over them. This comes at a cost so there is no room in the GPU left for nanite or lumen or fancy graphics, but this is pure next gen gameplay.
Excellent interview by devs. using UE5 but they created a lot of the tech themselves. Just goes to show that UE is not some disastrous engine keeping games from reaching their full potential. you just have to put in the work. it took these guys 4 years to get this right.
Excellent interview by devs. using UE5 but they created a lot of the tech themselves. Just goes to show that UE is not some disastrous engine keeping games from reaching their full potential. you just have to put in the work. it took these guys 4 years to get this right.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Yeah, this one is promising.
4000 soldiers with decent AI and physics applied is a nextgen jump compared to anything from past gen, plus it looks like there is some very nice building destruction and ballistic penetration physics like helldivers 2.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
lol I meant the video is 60fps but its 240P so who cares about the framerate when its blurrier than vaseline on glasses
extreme example
Lethal01
Member
Small teams making small games benefit a ton from UE5 even in these "early" days, their games are usually simple enough that they can even switch engine version mid development which is very important since each UE5 version fixed a bunch of very broken stuff, And ofcourse Engine isn't everything just about every UE developer makes a ton of stuff themselves, the one drawback of that is the more custom work you do on the engine the more likely it is that an update could totally break things and cause totally unpredictable delays, again, something small teams making small games have a much easier time dealing with.
Also Help that like other devs they are using neither or lumen, again, cause its early and has many use cases that cause issues.
That said I expect that we are close to bigger games that actually utilize the engines main features coming out soon, it has been years afterall.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Imagine TLOU on PS6…
JCreasy
Member
Lethal01
Member
True, what CGI do you think it's beaing?
It looks very cleary loke a video game and not real life, but it actually has shadows for everything whicn it a big step in the right direction.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is a $70 AAA exclusive in 2024 everyone.
Like why bother? Just remove the sign altogether. you dont need it. its almost like a placeholder that was never removed.
Then there is this bakery. Someone went in there and designed all these pastries just for one beach level. OK, great, but if you are drawing all these things anyway, why not create higher quality versions of them? Like, why purposefully design shitty looking cupcakes?
Like why bother? Just remove the sign altogether. you dont need it. its almost like a placeholder that was never removed.
Then there is this bakery. Someone went in there and designed all these pastries just for one beach level. OK, great, but if you are drawing all these things anyway, why not create higher quality versions of them? Like, why purposefully design shitty looking cupcakes?
VeganElduderino
Member
at this point, just watch a movie no?
Lethal01
Member
This is a $70 AAA exclusive in 2024 everyone.
Like why bother? Just remove the sign altogether. you dont need it. its almost like a placeholder that was never removed.
Then there is this bakery. Someone went in there and designed all these pastries just for one beach level. OK, great, but if you are drawing all these things anyway, why not create higher quality versions of them? Like, why purposefully design shitty looking cupcakes?
You think they make the assets with this level of quality? Generally you make everything at far higher quality than what's appropriate for the game, then you simplify it manually or with some tech to fit within render budget.
Regardless, they look low quality, but taking them out would be much worse.
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mrqs
Member
It feels that we're forever stuck in 2019. RDR2 is still one of the most insane things I've seen and it's from almost 6 years ago!
In 2020, I was really expecting something insanely striking to be out by 2024. It feels that great graphical leaps are becoming rarer and rarer, even thought the hardware and engines all can support some pretty incredible things.
Might be budgets concerns etc, but still, I think we might be stuck on a somewhat low bar for gaming graphics for a few years. Maybe when every game can run RTGI and virtual geometry without even thinking twice about it, we can get much better looking games just because it's easier to light scenes with quality having RTGI.
In 10 years it's going to be nice, but these FSR-filled low-resolution half-baked games are really upsetting.
Lethal01
Member
This is how I've felt since 2013, Games have become just realistic enough that them lacking shadows and reflections were nothing but ugly and I've been waiting for them to break thriugh into being something acceptable ever since.
arkhamguy123
Member
Haven’t been keepin up with this thread too much lately but what was our verdict on FF7 that just came out? Next Gen or no? Was thinking about getting it
GymWolf
Gold Member
GymWolf
Gold Member
As nextgen as pubic lices.
Borowski_1
Member
Same, some of the recent videos for it i've seen has a truck load of artifacts in motion aswell, like the base res has been dropped drastically.
I didn't watch the video yet, any idea if it's using lumen/nanite? they seem to be what causes the ue5 performance issues and if these guys improved it that much themselves it needs to be rolled into the ue5 codebase and Epic should hire them.
Lethal01
Member
No Nanite or Lumen, likely a lot of what they are doing would be totally possible on UE4 so they are avoiding a lot of the many big issues that were in UE5. So honestly this is the last game you would want to go to to assess the viability or usefulness of UE5 and claim it's a fine engine that you just needs some devs with grit and talent.
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Senua
Gold Member
Quite clearly the video is busted, insane compression, definitely not 1440p source. No soup for you.This video is a perfect example of why Resolution > Framerate
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
No they specifically say that they arent using Lumen or Nanite since the NPC logic is mostly using the GPU resources. So no room left for other GPU driven effects. They are using the niagara particle system though, and the lighting is still realtime, not baked because of the large open areas that need to be viewed from top down and thousands of enemies who need realtime shadows.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
FF7 is not budget constrained. Its an AAA game from an AAA studio being made exclusively for a first party manufacturer. It's not budget constrained for GPU either. They are running the game natively at 4k. plenty of pixel budget that couldve been used to improve asset quality, materials and lighting. They just chose not to for whatever reason.
I think Avatar, Starfield and Alan Wake 2 can look insane at times so i no longer hold RDR2 and TLOU2 as that bar that hasnt been topped. There is no Matrix demo caliber games though which I guess is disappointing. I think these terrible assets we are seeing in FF7 is mostly tied to this one studio being absolutely incompetent when it comes to graphics. These are the same guys that never fixed the door texture in the slums. Not even on the Pro which had more vram and way more horsepower. They seem to have no idea how to utilize UE4 properly. Hogwarts is pushing just as much raw level of detail and while it doesnt look next gen either, the material and asset quality is not this poor. I hate that game but i might download it to do some comparisons to ensure my memory is not playing tricks on me. But I remember the shops in hogsmead having an insane level of asset variety and it never looked PS3 quality like assets in Rebirth tend to do.
Toots
Gold Member
The operating word here being "some".
That one of those scenes was cherry picked by an editorializing scoundrel and made into a meme doesn't attest to the beauty of FF7 rebirth graphics.
arkhamguy123
Member
SM2 new game plus is out today which brought about time of day switching. Goddammit sunrise is absolutely incredible. Haven’t seen it since December , months ago, when I beat the game and WOW it makes the game look simply PS5 worthy.
In fact, it’s puzzling they put midday as the immutable default for all these months cause it’s the second worse looking to night time. Which makes it look like PS4 cross Gen city. Pretty much every time of day except those 2, so 3/5 look next gen worthy
In fact, it’s puzzling they put midday as the immutable default for all these months cause it’s the second worse looking to night time. Which makes it look like PS4 cross Gen city. Pretty much every time of day except those 2, so 3/5 look next gen worthy
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah sunset and sunrise look amazing. Even makes the buildings look good. I have a soft spot for midday too mostly because its such a big leap over the original midday lighting, but im pretty fucking bored of it after 3 months of roaming around the city in there. cant wait to boot this up and play in different time of day. I also loved the cloudy time of day you get during the lizard tanker sequence below. Did they include rainy of time of day?
P.S night time is the biggest scam though. they didnt upgrade it one bit.
Balducci30
Member
I assume this isn’t realtime?
Balducci30
Member
This makes me appreciate starfields assets - they look incredible for the most partThis is a $70 AAA exclusive in 2024 everyone.
Like why bother? Just remove the sign altogether. you dont need it. its almost like a placeholder that was never removed.
Then there is this bakery. Someone went in there and designed all these pastries just for one beach level. OK, great, but if you are drawing all these things anyway, why not create higher quality versions of them? Like, why purposefully design shitty looking cupcakes?
winjer
Gold Member
Its real time, using Epic's tech called metahuman.
Lethal01
Member
UE5 is neat, this is a really small scale games but when these features can be implemented in AAA games like Rebirth or Star wars things will start looking extremely impressive.
Game has a much better AO solution and consistent asset quality, the variety of the assets is a tiny fraction though of Rebirth though.
What the point of pretty assets if it's just a bunch of the same thing.
One place we can totally agree is Rebirth could have definitely sacrificed resolution for better lighting .
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
So a Brothers remake apparently released on the same day as FF7. It uses Nanite AND Lumen. The lighting is beautiful, has this very soft cg look to it. The texture/modeling work is fairly detailed though not super impressive. But my goodness, it is very expensive on the GPU. My 3080 runs it between 30-50 fps depending on the area using 4k dlss quality.
Water tech is very cool and it's nice to see some proper materials and models coming from Rebirth. There were a couple of fruit baskets that looked so much more detailed even from a top down view.
It wont blow anyone away or win any awards for graphics, but its a very nice looking game. Lumen and Nanite are a match made in heaven.
Water tech is very cool and it's nice to see some proper materials and models coming from Rebirth. There were a couple of fruit baskets that looked so much more detailed even from a top down view.
It wont blow anyone away or win any awards for graphics, but its a very nice looking game. Lumen and Nanite are a match made in heaven.
Lethal01
Member
Don't forget virtual shadow maps, all 3 were indeed made to compliment each other.
Again it's a great engine especially for small teams with small games and I can't wait for it to see large games using these features well to start hitting the shelves.
Maybe we can see something from the coalition soon.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Tried Mortal Kombat on Steam thanks to the free weekend. Meh. Especially going immediately from Lumen in Brothers to this. You can tell the UE4 roots in the lighting and while the asset quality is fairly decent, the materials just scream last gen. I can easily run it native 4k maxed out so yay i guess. Another game that looked far better on youtube and gifs than it does on my big screen. Weird how youtube is making actual next gen games look worse while enhancing last gen games by masking their shortcomings.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
You are not fucking putting starfield over rdr2 dude...
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I think it’s a bug but regardless, this is fine. The towns are big and complex. The game is huge and very varied.This is a $70 AAA exclusive in 2024 everyone.
Like why bother? Just remove the sign altogether. you dont need it. its almost like a placeholder that was never removed.
Then there is this bakery. Someone went in there and designed all these pastries just for one beach level. OK, great, but if you are drawing all these things anyway, why not create higher quality versions of them? Like, why purposefully design shitty looking cupcakes?
And it only took em less than 4 years to make.
For me this is a great compromise and these assets have more soul than quixel mega scam real scanned nanite items
If it was a bug then they would have released a patch these days or at least announced they are working to solve it.
This is clearly an intentional way to workaround an engine problem. They are trying to push asset diversity and density to high for the available memory.
Is not the only one having problems whit asset quality, LOD and texture loading problems. Star Wars Jedi Survivor has texture and LOD issues on the big open areas of Koboh.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
While I can appreciate the density of the towns, the asset quality is so bad that it honestly hurts the visuals because it makes the game look ugly which defeats the purpose of adding detail.
You have to have standards. You wouldnt be ok with ps3 era textures in TLOU2 just because they upped the scale with larger levels. Everything else had to improve as well.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol you hate all of our starfield discussions but you continue goading me into them day after day. Not today.
I am not going to compare RDR2 to Starfield. completely different settings. the only planets where its even remotely comparable are the grass ones that are procedurally generated on the fly like no mans sky levels. unfair to compare starfield interiors to RDR2 cabins and huts. not a fair comparison.
The person i was replying to said that it feels like we are stuck in 2019. I disagree. I think even HFW did things that RDR2 were lacking. The character models are vastly better. The lighting is better. The water rendering and reflections are better even if the physics dont come close to the PC version. clouds are better. textures are better. And thats just HFW, a cross gen game that just got topped by Avatar.
All im saying is that we have taken leaps forward especially in the last 6 months or so with games like AW2, Starfield and Avatar. I left out games like Spiderman 2 and Callisto which i also played late last year because i know how much they trigger you, but i went back to spiderman 2 last night for NG+ and the density of the traffic and NPCs is so goddamn impressive compared to FF7 Rebirth, RDR2, cyberpunk and other last gen benchmarks.
i will concede that its been an incremental instead of a generational leap, but things are not stagnant, they are constantly improving. Hellblade 2 is only 2 months away and the year will end very strong with next get AC, Star Wars Outlaws, Dragon Age, and the horizon remake which i suspect will be sonys big game this holiday season.
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mrqs
Member
So a Brothers remake apparently released on the same day as FF7. It uses Nanite AND Lumen. The lighting is beautiful, has this very soft cg look to it. The texture/modeling work is fairly detailed though not super impressive. But my goodness, it is very expensive on the GPU. My 3080 runs it between 30-50 fps depending on the area using 4k dlss quality.
Water tech is very cool and it's nice to see some proper materials and models coming from Rebirth. There were a couple of fruit baskets that looked so much more detailed even from a top down view.
It wont blow anyone away or win any awards for graphics, but its a very nice looking game. Lumen and Nanite are a match made in heaven.
These sheep and the water look lovely! When I heard on DF that they were using Nanite I was surprised tho. It doesn't feel that detailed, but looks nice for sure!
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arkhamguy123
Member
Me to Spider-Man 2 during my second play through and free roam during sunset and sunrise
Alright I do think this is a generational leap over SM1 at least in fidelity mode that I play in exclusively. I don’t know why I was so harsh on this earlier. I was going through a 3 year relationship ending so maybe I was in a bad mood and had other things on my mind besides Spider-Man but goddamn, did they improve the graphics for this patch? I seriously don’t remember it being this impressive most of the time
It has the vaguely pre rendered soft smooth demon souls esque fidelity I want in next Gen games. In fact, it might be my second favorite to demon souls right now. I swear, set it to sunset and slingshot in east Manhattan with all the skyscrapers and it flirts with the matrix demo almost when you’re going that fast. Obviously matrix beats it if you stop and examine it up close but it passes the glance test
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ChiefDada is gonna blow you now
Me to Spider-Man 2 during my second play through and free roam during sunset and sunrise
Alright I do think this is a generational leap over SM1 at least in fidelity mode that I play in exclusively. I don’t know why I was so harsh on this earlier. I was going through a 3 year relationship ending so maybe I was in a bad mood and had other things on my mind besides Spider-Man but goddamn, did they improve the graphics for this patch? I seriously don’t remember it being this impressive most of the time
It has the vaguely pre rendered soft smooth demon souls esque fidelity I want in next Gen games. In fact, it might be my second favorite to demon souls right now. I swear, set it to sunset and slingshot in east Manhattan with all the skyscrapers and it flirts with the matrix demo almost when you’re going that fast. Obviously matrix beats it if you stop and examine it up close but it passes the glance test
Yeah people here dont mention VSM nearly enough.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Me to Spider-Man 2 during my second play through and free roam during sunset and sunrise
Alright I do think this is a generational leap over SM1 at least in fidelity mode that I play in exclusively. I don’t know why I was so harsh on this earlier. I was going through a 3 year relationship ending so maybe I was in a bad mood and had other things on my mind besides Spider-Man but goddamn, did they improve the graphics for this patch? I seriously don’t remember it being this impressive most of the time
It has the vaguely pre rendered soft smooth demon souls esque fidelity I want in next Gen games. In fact, it might be my second favorite to demon souls right now. I swear, set it to sunset and slingshot in east Manhattan with all the skyscrapers and it flirts with the matrix demo almost when you’re going that fast. Obviously matrix beats it if you stop and examine it up close but it passes the glance test
I remember you and i went back and forth on this a lot back then so went back and re-read the thread and it was a warzone LMAO. AW2 and Robocop came out around the same time we were playing Spiderman 2. And then Avatar previews came out looking like shit thanks to the poor footage provided by ubisoft. I was fighting on like three fronts. Before AW2 came out and everyone here did a 180 on it, i got a lot of flack for saying it looks next gen and better than the very first UE5 demo. Avatar vs Horizon comparisons were being made and people were saying horizon destroys avatar. lol. spiderman 2 was being trashed every time poor chiefdada posted gifs. There was even a massive fight over TLOU remake for some reason.
Those were a hectic few weeks, but im glad this thread came around on Alan Wake 2 after playing it then later Avatar after completely dismissing it when those previews came out. Now we are seeing Spiderman 2 get the love it deserves.
Lethal01
Member
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Its been an absolutely abysmal year so far. All I've played is TLOU 2 remake. Need a new showcase.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The caves location in Brothers wasnt that impressive. Too bland for Lumen and Nanite to shine but this forest with the torch is gorgeous. Reminds me of Little Devil Inside.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
what game is this?The caves location in Brothers wasnt that impressive. Too bland for Lumen and Nanite to shine but this forest with the torch is gorgeous. Reminds me of Little Devil Inside.
looks fantastic
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