Negotiator101
Member
so Lumen is software based Raytraced lighting?The caves location in Brothers wasnt that impressive. Too bland for Lumen and Nanite to shine but this forest with the torch is gorgeous. Reminds me of Little Devil Inside.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Wishmaster92
Member
Yes as far as I know Lumen is supposed to be RT lighting, currently Software is used for 60fps ue5 games bc it’s “cheap and less accurate” even though 30fps games use sw lumen and some don’t even use it at all because it’s super computationally heavy. HW lumen used in the matrix demo is much more advanced and accurate. The UE dev team is working on making HW Lumen be just as quick as its software implementation in some future UE5 version.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Brothers remake.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lumen has both a software based GI solution and a hardware based one. The very first ps5 ue5 demo was running using software lumen at 1440p 30 fps. Matrix was using hardware lumen which is more expensive on the gpu since it is far more accurate. Epic said they were targeting 1080p 30 fps on the ps5. However the matrix demo mostly runs around 1404p.
Not sure about brothers, but every other ue5 game uses software lumen. Even on PC. Fortnite, robocop, immortals of aveum all use software Lumen. It is slightly less accurate than hardware GI. You can toggle it in the matrix demo. It basically amounts to better AO coverage.
arkhamguy123
Banned
So it is next gen
GymWolf
Member
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Been playing some spiderman 2 now that we can change the time of day, and it is really eye opening going back to it. The NPC density is even better than i expected with some shots feeling more alive than anything ive seen this gen.
The buildings are really mediocre on the ground, but those same buildings look next gen as fuck when you are flying above them. The draw distance is jaw dropping.
And while i love that there is no fog, or haze being used to hide the distant buildings, I really wish they used more volumetric effects in this game. In night time, it looks too clean and thus dated, had they used some volumetric fog and gone for that Arkam Knight look, i think it wouldnt have felt this dated. I think the game in general looks way too clean, and i completely understand the hypocrisy behind shitting on HFW for adding fog and then asking for it in FF7 and Spiderman 2, but those visual effects are crucial in making games feel cinematic instead of documentaries or made for tv soap operas. This game looks at its best during sunset and morning because of those visual effects making it stand out. the other time of days couldve used those smog and fog effects that Alan Wake 2 uses so well.
Either way, didnt expect this game to impress me so much after playing AW2, Star Wars, Callisto and Avatar the last few months. lastly, whats curious is that you can change time of day on the fly. no reload necessary like there was in the first game. They also have 2 different sunset and morning settings. 7 time of day bakes total. I wonder if they couldve just switched between them seeing as how they can easily do them in realtime now.
The buildings are really mediocre on the ground, but those same buildings look next gen as fuck when you are flying above them. The draw distance is jaw dropping.
And while i love that there is no fog, or haze being used to hide the distant buildings, I really wish they used more volumetric effects in this game. In night time, it looks too clean and thus dated, had they used some volumetric fog and gone for that Arkam Knight look, i think it wouldnt have felt this dated. I think the game in general looks way too clean, and i completely understand the hypocrisy behind shitting on HFW for adding fog and then asking for it in FF7 and Spiderman 2, but those visual effects are crucial in making games feel cinematic instead of documentaries or made for tv soap operas. This game looks at its best during sunset and morning because of those visual effects making it stand out. the other time of days couldve used those smog and fog effects that Alan Wake 2 uses so well.
Either way, didnt expect this game to impress me so much after playing AW2, Star Wars, Callisto and Avatar the last few months. lastly, whats curious is that you can change time of day on the fly. no reload necessary like there was in the first game. They also have 2 different sunset and morning settings. 7 time of day bakes total. I wonder if they couldve just switched between them seeing as how they can easily do them in realtime now.
Last edited:
VeganElduderino
Member
looks next gen to me ! it looks on par with the next Warhammer space marine game , very dynamic !
Audiophile
Member
Given where the leaks place it, I hope Spider-Man 3 Part II is a PS6 launch exclusive to show off the system, I need my socks blown off.
Part I to hook people end of gen for PS5 on 2027 and to utilise the big install base, then Part II to show off PS6 and bring people over in 2028.
Would be a good business move and a great way to show the leap (especially if they're developed in parallel with the technological leap planned from the beginning of dev for Part II; with an eye to having a serious step up in visuals and gameplay).
Part I to hook people end of gen for PS5 on 2027 and to utilise the big install base, then Part II to show off PS6 and bring people over in 2028.
Would be a good business move and a great way to show the leap (especially if they're developed in parallel with the technological leap planned from the beginning of dev for Part II; with an eye to having a serious step up in visuals and gameplay).
Last edited:
JCreasy
Member
Is Stellar Blade UE5?
winjer
Member
UE4
arkhamguy123
Banned
Correction: there is no part 2. It’s just Spider-Man 3. Two parts was from an earlier slide. Just an idea they kicked around at first. The latest slides had it as a single game
GymWolf
Member
Her ass is definitely nextgen.
SimTourist
Member
Lol never. Fluid simulations like that are extremely heavy even for their renderfarms that take up entire floors.
GymWolf
Member
So like 20 years or more?
VeganElduderino
Member
Yeah her ass looks next gen , but the rest of the game looks this gen!
SkyHighTrees
Member
I know this thread is about next gen futuristic shit. But I am gonna show appreciation for GhostWire Tokyos graphics.
Completely flew under my radar. HDR plus Fine tune dark areas and the game is the best walking at night in tokyo representation...
Fantastic assets and materials. Only the characters are pretty cartoony
Completely flew under my radar. HDR plus Fine tune dark areas and the game is the best walking at night in tokyo representation...
Fantastic assets and materials. Only the characters are pretty cartoony
Insane Metal
Member
I'd say 20 years, yeah.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
As soon as we stop rendering triangles but use interactive AI generated pictures at 60fps. XD
Schmendrick
Member
We said the same thing about RT not too long ago. Then came Nvidia`s ML Denoiser.
I´d not even be surprised if we saw an ML Model that did something similar on a sufficiently accurate level for a game in real time soon.
It`s all just a question of how accurate exactly you need it.
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think it will be a cross gen title but it will look like the Matrix because they will target native 4k on PS6 and 1080p-1440p on PS5 with lower fidelity visuals.
The only problem is that they are stretching themselves too thin again. Venom is out in 2025. Wolverine 2026. Spiderman 2028. Ratchet 2029 and X-men in the early 2030s.
Lets just say you will be having sex with robots that look like margot robbie before game devs get to that level of fluid simulations.
Last edited:
Kaiserstark
Member
Insomniac also want to release a new IP in 2031 or 2032.
It's kind of crazy when you think what Insomniac could released 9 titles in a little more then 10 years if they follow their planning.
GymWolf
Member
You can take the margot robbie bot, i like to have something with more meat in the gears.
GymWolf
Member
I doubt it.
But then again, people have lowered their standard for nextgen a lot, a bit lower and we could reach china.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Beside the odd texture here and there, FF7 Rebirth is what I expected from this generation.
GymWolf
Member
I love how you have the courage to troll people about women taste after the MJ debacle.
It's like sweet baby trying to write a story about machismo
VeganElduderino
Member
well this gen is clearly a filler !
GymWolf
Member
I rest my fucking case.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Agreed. I think SF looks amazing, but I think lighting helps a whole lot with that games art direction.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I always thought so, that’s why I expected visuals on par with FF7 Rebirth.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I never expected much from this generation. The tech increase was never going to light the world on fire and give us next level visuals.
GymWolf
Member
Are you telling me that cerny talks about the blistering fast ssd giving you a blowjob didn't impressed you?
yamaci17
Member
its vram limitation and nothing else
you need more memory for texture leaps. they cant upgrade textures, and actually textures get hit because developers are trying to squueze more varied textures in larger open world settings now. only games where we see massive texture improvements are games that have PS3 world design (alan wake 2, a plague tale requiem etc.)
ps1 3 mb total ram
ps2 total 36 mb ram, 12x memory increase = massive leap in graphics
ps3 total 512 mb ram, 14x memory increase = massive leap in graphics
ps4 total 8192 mb ram, 16x memory increase = great leap in graphics
ps5 total 16384 mb ram, puny 2x memory increase = almost no leap in graphics at all
ps4 packed 8 gb of total memory when NVIDIA was selling 3 gb high end GPUs (780ti). ps4 had 2.7x more memory than a titan class GPU of its time. (6 gb version of that gpu came later and first released product was the 3 gb version IIRC)
titan class 3090 in 2020 packed 24 gb memory which is 1.5x more memory than the PS5. While PS4 had much memory than titan class GPU, PS5 has actually less memory than the titan GPU of this day. if ps5 had memory setup like ps4, it would've at least gotten 64 GB memory (24*2.7x) and 64 gb would've been a decent 8x memory increase over PS4 that would give us insane leaps in graphics memory is super cheap. PS4 had no rights to have 8 gb vram when it did. but it did. and results were impressive.
and no one should tell me moore's law or something. if ps4 could have 16x memory of ps3, a bigger leap than ps1 to ps2, you cannot explain a mere 2x memory increase. it should've been AT LEAST 4x increase and land at 32 GB.
Instead we have Series S. This entire gen will be limited by funny memory budgets.
you need more memory for texture leaps. they cant upgrade textures, and actually textures get hit because developers are trying to squueze more varied textures in larger open world settings now. only games where we see massive texture improvements are games that have PS3 world design (alan wake 2, a plague tale requiem etc.)
ps1 3 mb total ram
ps2 total 36 mb ram, 12x memory increase = massive leap in graphics
ps3 total 512 mb ram, 14x memory increase = massive leap in graphics
ps4 total 8192 mb ram, 16x memory increase = great leap in graphics
ps5 total 16384 mb ram, puny 2x memory increase = almost no leap in graphics at all
ps4 packed 8 gb of total memory when NVIDIA was selling 3 gb high end GPUs (780ti). ps4 had 2.7x more memory than a titan class GPU of its time. (6 gb version of that gpu came later and first released product was the 3 gb version IIRC)
titan class 3090 in 2020 packed 24 gb memory which is 1.5x more memory than the PS5. While PS4 had much memory than titan class GPU, PS5 has actually less memory than the titan GPU of this day. if ps5 had memory setup like ps4, it would've at least gotten 64 GB memory (24*2.7x) and 64 gb would've been a decent 8x memory increase over PS4 that would give us insane leaps in graphics memory is super cheap. PS4 had no rights to have 8 gb vram when it did. but it did. and results were impressive.
and no one should tell me moore's law or something. if ps4 could have 16x memory of ps3, a bigger leap than ps1 to ps2, you cannot explain a mere 2x memory increase. it should've been AT LEAST 4x increase and land at 32 GB.
Instead we have Series S. This entire gen will be limited by funny memory budgets.
Last edited:
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Nope, and neither did Xbox with its bolstering of teraflops or whatever.
Then you have devs coasting on letting the hardware try to brute force optimization, instead they themselves doing fine tooth comb optimization.
I really think this has easily been the worst generation of consoles ever.
GymWolf
Member
There is just so much they can do when cheap fucks gamers cry for anything that cost over 500 dollars.
(Just to ask for a pro console 3 years later)
You can't make this shit up.
Is not that crazy when you realize they still using 90% copy&paste city and assets for all the Spiderman games. But yea they are incredible productive.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
It’s why I would prefer a much beefier PS6 before a PS5 Pro. I think releasing a PS5 Pro is a mistake, and I get laughed at. I think Sony needs to enter next gen with a $600-$800 console that’s actually worth that cost increase. I’m not saying soon either. I think maybe 2027. Let this gen cook a little longer.
Last edited:
GymWolf
Member
Their last "original" game was sunset overdrive that was basically infamous+ wacky guns from ratchet with absolute dogshit quantity of content, the game was one of the smaller and shorter open world out there, if not the smallest ever.
Past 10 years has been spiderman, a well known and set character where they don't have to create anything except a new plot and they even stole the combat and stealth system from the arkahm series, and other ratchet games.
No fucking shit they can drop games as fast as i can drop turds after dining at taco bell, but try to tell any of this to the ponies and they are gonna call you an hater even if those are straight facts.
Let's see how fast they are when they make a completely original game with original gameplay and combat system that has a main campaign longer than 15 hours...because vulvaerine definitely isn't.
Last edited:
GymWolf
Member
I would pay 1000 dollars for something that has to last for 5 to 7 years but i guess that 600-800 would be already a dream scenario i guess...
Now that developers have much more complete and accessible tools they don't need to worry about hardware specific features and low level stuff. They now target the consoles as low/mid tier PCs using high level APIs without doing much optimizations to gain more performance or do things that they can't before. Making a new console is not going to change that
Brute force everything is the actual path on consoles for most devs.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
And that’s why we get games like FF7 Rebirth with its messy graphical modes. Neither one is amazing or optimized. Fantastic game, but man does it have some inconsistencies. That’s why I think it will be par for the course this generation.
And I laugh at the idea that folk around here think that a PS5 Pro will fix their precious 60 fps modes. Not going to happen.
I thought the superfast SSDs (compared to whatever last gen had, anyway) answered some of this concern? ie you don't need as much cos you can swap stuff in and out so much quicker.
winjer
Member
The problem with FFVII Rebirth might be even worse. FFVII Remastered, used Unreal Engine 4.18. This version was released in 2017.
SE did add some customization code. But it's still an old version, of a last Gen game engine.
I suspect they are using that same engine version for Rebirth and that is why it's missing so many features.
For example, Rebirth is using some spatial upscaler, instead o temporal upscalers. Like TAAU, that was introduced with UE4.19. Or FSR2, that requires UE4.26.
It's also the reason why there is no support for RT.
Most PS5 hardware features are probably being very underutilized due to Se using such an old engine.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
NN AI physics say hi and can run far faster than actual simulations doing the math.
Right now you can generate 100s of images per minute, and it is likely soon SORA like videos with real world physics will be able to render as fast.
Ram prices don't seem to have kept up. Memory is cheap but not that cheap. In any case thanks to thinks like NANITE 32GB may be enough for photorealism.
That said I'm hoping for a ram replacement technology to arrive and allow for TBs of fast memory for cheap. True AI, or AGI can definitely benefit from TBs of memory, and that would definitely be highly beneficial for future games and consoles.
Last edited:
ChiefDada
Member
ChiefDada
Member
How anyone can describe this as anything other than next-gen is beyond me. Easily the best LOD management I've ever seen in a game.