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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Really disappointed by how Star Wars outlaws is shaping up. This is series x footage in quality mode but the draw distance, pop-in and interior lighting is really mediocre. Star Wars Jedi Survivor had way better interior lighting. here it seems like there is no light bounce in the interiors. very last gen looking despite higher quality assets and NPC counts.



This looks roughly on par with HFW which is crazy considering this is next gen only. At least the wind physics are in and the snow level look good but still a step down from the original reveal below.


giphy.gif
 
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K

kikkis

Member
CsPiBSJ.png
imagine how big games are when they have high res textures everywhere.

For a cross gen game mw3 looks pretty good. It benefits from color but it's pretty gray game.

QcCss4W.png

U3pTac2.png
E01GoKT.png
 
M

Masterofchapter

Banned
SlimySnake said:
Really disappointed by how Star Wars outlaws is shaping up. This is series x footage in quality mode but the draw distance, pop-in and interior lighting is really mediocre. Star Wars Jedi Survivor had way better interior lighting. here it seems like there is no light bounce in the interiors. very last gen looking despite higher quality assets and NPC counts.



This looks roughly on par with HFW which is crazy considering this is next gen only. At least the wind physics are in and the snow level look good but still a step down from the original reveal below.


giphy.gif
Click to expand...

Wait until pc
 
C

CGNoire

Member
alloush said:
Mayne, I was so happy to see that video posted by ResetEra, the visuals are gorgeous. I said to myself these kinda visuals won’t be doable this gen but next gen for sure until I read your post and now I am depressed again!
Click to expand...
That because its not true. The differnce between UE5 PT and Lumen isnt as great as others are acting. At least not in the general sense. Next gen could totaly do this. Maybe even a little this gen. The power of nanite really.
 
A

alloush

Member
kikkis said:
Imagine running and then doing 270 degree turn on pc or going down stairs fast and dodging when your fore foot is in air. Cant really animate either scenario both responsively and realistically at the same time.
Click to expand...
It hasn’t been done yet so we dunno how it will be in games, and I think we are still years and years away from having realistic, lifelike animations human anatomy is complex. One thing’s for sure is that our movements in real life are actually move responsive than the animations we see in videogames today!
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
alloush said:
As a guy fascinated by Animations and Physics more than anything else including Graphics it is high time we see huge, astronomical leaps being made in that area. Last time we saw a proper leap being made in this area was back in the PS3 era, being a sports gamer doesn’t help either. It makes me hella pissed that we are not seeing any kinds of improvements, not even an iota being made to Animations and Physics.

Same thing with AI!
Click to expand...
It's extremely frustrating to see this after the amazing work Ubisoft studios did in the PS360 era. Unity continued it but then they threw all that work away. For Honor used motion matching but again, no other ubisoft game used it last gen, and they have done fuck all with it since. Share some of that tech with massive who are clearly not great at animations.

After Sony showed off TLOU2's in 2018, i thought motion matching would be the future. I figured everyone would be using it. At least at Sony. But clearly they know somethign we dont and either its harder to implement than we all think or its not a priority.

RDR2 had great animations but man its cumbersome to control. So lets hope whatever AI or physics driven system they have come up with is as responsive as TLOU2.
 
A

alloush

Member
SlimySnake said:
It's extremely frustrating to see this after the amazing work Ubisoft studios did in the PS360 era. Unity continued it but then they threw all that work away. For Honor used motion matching but again, no other ubisoft game used it last gen, and they have done fuck all with it since. Share some of that tech with massive who are clearly not great at animations.

After Sony showed off TLOU2's in 2018, i thought motion matching would be the future. I figured everyone would be using it. At least at Sony. But clearly they know somethign we dont and either its harder to implement than we all think or its not a priority.

RDR2 had great animations but man its cumbersome to control. So lets hope whatever AI or physics driven system they have come up with is as responsive as TLOU2.
Click to expand...
Man, it is extremely disappointing how stagnant the strides in the animation department had been. I cannot recall the last time we truly saw a leap in animations, last time was legit during the PS3 era. It is hella disappointing, same thing with physics which animations are a part of but extend to other areas as well. And lastly AI. Now we are in the age of AI if we do not see huge strides made at least in the AI department the next 3-5 years then yeah these devs deserve to be shat on left, right and center.

To me RDR2 had and still has the most lifelike animations I have ever seen. It is cumbersome because I feel the game was running at 30fps and we do not have the power to have these kinds of animations running at 60 or 120fps. But I believe if the game was running at 60fps not even gonna mention 120fps then animations woulda felt much smoother, more seamless while preserving this realistic feel to them. Characters had weight to them. Tlou2’s animations were great but they did feel a tad videogamey in my opinion, but still great nonetheless!
 
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amigastar

amigastar

Member
alloush said:
It hasn’t been done yet so we dunno how it will be in games, and I think we are still years and years away from having realistic, lifelike animations human anatomy is complex. One thing’s for sure is that our movements in real life are actually move responsive than the animations we see in videogames today!
Click to expand...
Star Wars 1313 had really good animations, but it was canned. Max Payne 3 for its age also has awesome and fluid animations.
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
alloush said:
Man, it is extremely disappointing how stagnant the strides in the animation department had been. I cannot recall the last time we truly saw a leap in animations, last time was legit during the PS3 era. It is hella disappointing, same thing with physics which animations are a part of but extend to other areas as well. And lastly AI. Now we are in the age of AI if we do not see huge strides made at least in the AI department the next 3-5 years then yeah these devs deserve to be shat on left, right and center.

To me RDR2 had and still has the most lifelike animations I have ever seen. It is cumbersome because I feel the game was running at 30fps and we do not have the power to have these kinds of animations running at 60 or 120fps. But I believe if the game was running at 60fps not even gonna mention 120fps then animations woulda felt much smoother, more seamless while preserving this realistic feel to them. Characters had weight to them. Tlou2’s animations were great but they did feel a tad videogamey in my opinion, but still great nonetheless!
Click to expand...
I play RDR2 on PC at 60+ fps and its still hard to control. It's either baked in by design or their animation logic just has too much of an input lag.
 
A

alloush

Member
SlimySnake said:
I play RDR2 on PC at 60+ fps and its still hard to control. It's either baked in by design or their animation logic just has too much of an input lag.
Click to expand...
Ahh yeah could be. The ideal system would be RDR2’s animation system in terms of weight/inertia but more fluid/less input lag. That’s the stuff of dreams!
 
H . R . 2

H . R . 2

Member
SlimySnake said:
Really disappointed by how Star Wars outlaws is shaping up. This is series x footage in quality mode but the draw distance, pop-in and interior lighting is really mediocre. Star Wars Jedi Survivor had way better interior lighting. here it seems like there is no light bounce in the interiors. very last gen looking despite higher quality assets and NPC counts.



This looks roughly on par with HFW which is crazy considering this is next gen only. At least the wind physics are in and the snow level look good but still a step down from the original reveal below.


giphy.gif
Click to expand...

sadly, it happened, exactly how we discussed and predicted it back when it was announced
expecting honesty from Ubisoft is like expecting fire not to burn


SlimySnake said:
I play RDR2 on PC at 60+ fps and its still hard to control. It's either baked in by design or their animation logic just has too much of an input lag.
Click to expand...
if my memory serves me correctly, some of GTAVI leaks last year showed signs of improvement in terms of input lag and responsiveness
I personally did not mind the sluggishness of it and thought that it made the game all the more authentic. I like in-game characters that have weight to them
 
ResetEraVetVIP

ResetEraVetVIP

Member
SlimySnake said:
Really disappointed by how Star Wars outlaws is shaping up. This is series x footage in quality mode but the draw distance, pop-in and interior lighting is really mediocre. Star Wars Jedi Survivor had way better interior lighting. here it seems like there is no light bounce in the interiors. very last gen looking despite higher quality assets and NPC counts.



This looks roughly on par with HFW which is crazy considering this is next gen only. At least the wind physics are in and the snow level look good but still a step down from the original reveal below.


giphy.gif
Click to expand...

Ubisoft (Yeah I know, the usual downgrade offenders), had my hopes up for the SnowDrop engine and this game’s visuals with the initial reveal. Now it looks very downgraded…It still looks good, just not “OMG, this is CGI!!!” good…Im still looking forward to playing it anyway…
 
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mrMUR_96

mrMUR_96

Member
SlimySnake said:
It's extremely frustrating to see this after the amazing work Ubisoft studios did in the PS360 era. Unity continued it but then they threw all that work away. For Honor used motion matching but again, no other ubisoft game used it last gen, and they have done fuck all with it since. Share some of that tech with massive who are clearly not great at animations.

After Sony showed off TLOU2's in 2018, i thought motion matching would be the future. I figured everyone would be using it. At least at Sony. But clearly they know somethign we dont and either its harder to implement than we all think or its not a priority.

RDR2 had great animations but man its cumbersome to control. So lets hope whatever AI or physics driven system they have come up with is as responsive as TLOU2.
Click to expand...
Unreal Engine 5.4 has motion matching as a native feature. Hopefully future projects will benefit a lot from this.
 
I

IDWhite

Member
SlimySnake said:
Really disappointed by how Star Wars outlaws is shaping up. This is series x footage in quality mode but the draw distance, pop-in and interior lighting is really mediocre. Star Wars Jedi Survivor had way better interior lighting. here it seems like there is no light bounce in the interiors. very last gen looking despite higher quality assets and NPC counts.



This looks roughly on par with HFW which is crazy considering this is next gen only. At least the wind physics are in and the snow level look good but still a step down from the original reveal below.


giphy.gif
Click to expand...


This is PC footage whit ray reconstruction enabled and it looks incredible. The pop-in it is also present in Avatar FoP with unobtanium settings. All games have it.
The comparison betwen Jedi Survivor and Outlaws it is not appropriate. Jedi is not a open world game with huge vistas and high quality assets that needs to be streamed at high speed.

The RTGI implementation on this game need to handle a lot more situations, not only because of the scale but also because of the dynamic systems represented in the environment.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
IDWhite said:
This is PC footage whit ray reconstruction enabled and it looks incredible. The pop-in it is also present in Avatar FoP with unobtanium settings. All games have it.
The comparison betwen Jedi Survivor and Outlaws it is not appropriate. Jedi is not a open world game with huge vistas and high quality assets that needs to be streamed at high speed.

The RTGI implementation on this game need to handle a lot more situations, not only because of the scale but also because of the dynamic systems represented in the environment.
Click to expand...
Well then im even more disappointed. Star Wars didnt look all that special in the open world planets either, but its interiors had some fantastic lighting, material and asset quality. im not getting that here. everything just looks so flat indoors.

i can excuse the pop-in outdoors since she seems to be driving really fast, but this is their second game and i thought they wouldve figured out how to reduce pop-in by now.
 
Grildon Tundy

Grildon Tundy

Member
Regarding realistic animation vs tight gameplay, that's a tough one.

You could partly solve the RDR2 problem of feeling laggy and cumbersome by having enemies and NPCs obey the laws of physics while the player character is snappier. Something like the Soulsbournering games: enemies have excellent, readable animations, but your player character reacts instantly to your inputs, and the game feels great to play as a result. Having my guy be able to spin 720 degrees in a split-second takes me out of the experience way less than a character who isn't responsive.
 
Xtib81

Xtib81

Member
SlimySnake said:
I can excuse the pop-in outdoors since she seems to be driving really fast.
Click to expand...
You think so? I feel like they have the same limitations that Bend studio had with Days Gone. That vehicle should be much faster, it seems like she has a top speed of 40mph ^^ it's especially jarring in the desert gameplay we've seen.
 
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I

IDWhite

Member
SlimySnake said:
Well then im even more disappointed. Star Wars didnt look all that special in the open world planets either, but its interiors had some fantastic lighting, material and asset quality. im not getting that here. everything just looks so flat indoors.

i can excuse the pop-in outdoors since she seems to be driving really fast, but this is their second game and i thought they wouldve figured out how to reduce pop-in by now.
Click to expand...

We don't know if Outlaws have all shadowed lights inside the RTGI like Metro Exodus enhanced, but i'm sure they made little use of baking to enhance models lighting. The thing is this game has a huge dynamic component for day and night conditions which complete relies on RTGI without possibility to change to raster lightning like on Jedi Survivor. It is easier to make bake lighting look better when you buid with static conditions and tighter controlled scenarios than others where you have random dynamic weather cycles and day and night cycles on huge open areas.

As for the pop-in, i think they could have implemented a better system. But only UE5 games have manage to do it better.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
IDWhite said:
We don't know if Outlaws have all shadowed lights inside the RTGI like Metro Exodus enhanced, but i'm sure they made little use of baking to enhance models lighting. The thing is this game has a huge dynamic component for day and night conditions which complete relies on RTGI without possibility to change to raster lightning like on Jedi Survivor. It is easier to make bake lighting look better when you buid with static conditions and tighter controlled scenarios than others where you have random dynamic weather cycles and day and night cycles on huge open areas.

As for the pop-in, i think they could have implemented a better system. But only UE5 games have manage to do it better.
Click to expand...
I was talking mostly about interiors. You can see that the shadows are fine in the third screenshot. The RTGI has good bounce lighting in this screenshot where the green lights bounce off properly. The second shot in the stormtrooper base is also very good but most other indoor areas in this video just feel drab and dull.

GTv1fsZasAA6kq7


GTv1guYbwAA6D0-

GTv1hl5aEAAMLEe

I think its probably just an art design issue than a tech issue. Their reveal demo made great use of its lighting tech. We are not seeing the same effort put into other areas. Likely because its a large open world game where not much effort was put into interiors.
 
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Polygonal_Sprite

Polygonal_Sprite

Member
ResetEraVetVIP said:
Ubisoft (Yeah I know, the usual downgrade offenders), had my hopes up for the SnowDrop engine and this game’s visuals with the initial reveal. Now it looks very downgraded…It still looks good, just not “OMG, this is CGI!!!” good…Im still looking forward to playing it anyway…
Click to expand...
Why 4 years into these consoles are you still expecting "OMG this is CG" especially from an Ubisoft game which has 4 decent sized Worlds with probably 100 hours of content in it?

The game looks good imo but they had to target 30fps to get that level of fidelity (the vegetation and materials are very nice) at that IQ at a solid framerate.

R* with GTA VI and ND with TLOU III are the only developers left that have a real shot of dropping our jaws imo and TLOU III will probably be a cross gen PS6 game.
 
amigastar

amigastar

Member
Why are people so much concerned about graphics of Outlaws, they will look fine it's the gameplay i'm worried about.
 
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E

Edder1

Member
amigastar said:
Nothings fine enough in these threads it seems.
Click to expand...
You're right, when a game looks ass for next gen like Outlaws does after all the downgrade then it's not fine and never will be. Outlaws should be shamed and sh*t upon when it comes to its graphics and I'm all here for it. Thousands of devs working at Ubisoft and we keep getting these turds 4 years into this gen. There's no more excuse for poor graphics, we are literally a few months away from half of this generation being behind us.
 
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ResetEraVetVIP

ResetEraVetVIP

Member
Polygonal_Sprite said:
Why 4 years into these consoles are you still expecting "OMG this is CG" especially from an Ubisoft game which has 4 decent sized Worlds with probably 100 hours of content in it?

The game looks good imo but they had to target 30fps to get that level of fidelity (the vegetation and materials are very nice) at that IQ at a solid framerate.

R* with GTA VI and ND with TLOU III are the only developers left that have a real shot of dropping our jaws imo and TLOU III will probably be a cross gen PS6 game.
Click to expand...
First off this is my thread and I understand the technical aspect etc. I’m not dumb. The Snowdrop engine was touted to bring nanite like polycounts to games. After the Initial Star Wars Outlaw reveal, I believed the footage a little and gave Ubisoft a chance, but they let me down, the original trailer looked CGI like…

*Marvel 1943 looks awesome and we already have Hellblade 2…
 
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Lethal01

Lethal01

Member
Buggy Loop said:
Pretty much this but not because peoples here have unrealistic expectations, but that the gen has simply not delivered, it's really disappointing.
Click to expand...

People definitely had unrealistic expectations, Tnis thread got started by a dude saying literal CGI should be that had to match.
It might be calming down a bit now though.
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
amigastar said:
I get it it's just the constant bickering which puts me off, the graphics are fine like i said, nothing to dramatize about.
I get it, though. Nothings fine enough in these threads it seems.
Click to expand...
I don’t know about that. Hellblade 2 was universally praised just a few weeks ago. Star Wars outlaws was praised last year before the downgrade. If the game had shipped looking exactly like that gif i posted from the reveal trailer, no one would be bitching about it.

I understand that downgrades happen, and I’m sure Star Wars will look very pretty when it comes out, but everyone predicted the downgrade last year and now that the game has gotten the usual Ubisoft downgrade, i don’t blame people for saying i told you so.

Im still buying it Day one and i will undoubtedly post many gifs but this thread is about graphics and this bait and switch Ubisoft pulls time after time is really fucking annoying. Especially for people in this thread who only care about visuals.
 
mrqs

mrqs

Member
SlimySnake said:
Really disappointed by how Star Wars outlaws is shaping up. This is series x footage in quality mode but the draw distance, pop-in and interior lighting is really mediocre. Star Wars Jedi Survivor had way better interior lighting. here it seems like there is no light bounce in the interiors. very last gen looking despite higher quality assets and NPC counts.



This looks roughly on par with HFW which is crazy considering this is next gen only. At least the wind physics are in and the snow level look good but still a step down from the original reveal below.
Click to expand...


Honestly, it's looking better than I expected. That IGN demo surely had something fishy going on. Game looks sharp!

EDIT: Wait, this is the PC version, it says right at the beginning of the gameplay. Looked too good to be true.
 
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Msamy

Msamy

Member
Watching more leaked footage from wolverine m13 build , and one more time I can easily said it looks far better than Spiderman 2 and it still far from release , i can't wait to see official gameplay video from latest build , insomniac are cooking some amazing thing right now 🔥 🔥🔥
 
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