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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
death stranding 2 doesnt have pre-rendered cutscenes. its all realtime just like the first game and every single mgs game.
kojima just knows how to do character models. he's always been ahead of the curve.
This is what he was doing on PS3.
PS4
It's not surprising the PS5 character models look even better.
Luipadre
Member
death stranding 2 doesnt have pre-rendered cutscenes. its all realtime just like the first game and every single mgs game.
kojima just knows how to do character models. he's always been ahead of the curve.
This is what he was doing on PS3.
PS4
It's not surprising the PS5 character models look even better.
I cant fucking wait for DS2. A reason to own a PS5 currently for me. PC version probably only a year or 2 later
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The water tech in this astro bot boss fight is very impressive. shame the rest of the graphics look a gen behind. especially in comparison to horizon legos.
arkhamguy123
Member
I would not call that “very impressive”
GymWolf
Gold Member
Same, it has basic ass ripples and not much else, or i'm not seeing it.
RDR2 water runs leaps around it physic wise, i mean look at this shit
I think he is talking about when the octopus does the moses move and separate the sea, cool but it really looks very basic.
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Xtib81
Member
Rockstar is gonna show us what 'next gen water' means with gta6.Same, it has basic ass ripples and not much else, or i'm not seeing it.
RDR2 water runs leaps around it physic wise, i mean look at this shit
I think he is talking about when the octopus does the moses move and separate the sea, cool but it really looks very basic.
Masterofchapter
Banned
Cinematics not actual gameplay
death stranding 2 doesnt have pre-rendered cutscenes. its all realtime just like the first game and every single mgs game.
kojima just knows how to do character models. he's always been ahead of the curve.
This is what he was doing on PS3.
PS4
It's not surprising the PS5 character models look even better.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
dont act stupid. we were always talking about cinematics. you called them pre-rendered which they are not.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Go play it again. I play it on PC maxed out and while Shadows might not look a generation above RDR2, it definitely doesnt look worse.
There is a clear upgrade in lighting, foliage density, and draw distance. Trees also look better though they werent exactly RDR2's strongest suit.
Shadows is looking very soft because its being uploaded to youtube with a very low bitrate while my rdr2 captures are native.
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Masterofchapter
Banned
Cinematics not actual gameplay tha
Put some gameplay models we will talk, see all the characters are pre render not really in-game engine like ubisoft or rockstar game everything in that games are carefully crafted for specific events
death stranding 2 doesnt have pre-rendered cutscenes. its all realtime just like the first game and every single mgs game.
kojima just knows how to do character models. he's always been ahead of the curve.
This is what he was doing on PS3.
PS4
It's not surprising the PS5 character models look even better.
Masterofchapter
Banned
Red dead redemption 2 lighting in that game really suck, the trailer looked much better
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Waiting for games with this much fidelity, scale and density. Only Hellblade 2 has come close…
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Lagspike_exe
Member
Still can't believe they have no released a next gen port.Same, it has basic ass ripples and not much else, or i'm not seeing it.
RDR2 water runs leaps around it physic wise, i mean look at this shit
I think he is talking about when the octopus does the moses move and separate the sea, cool but it really looks very basic.
Xtib81
Member
That's next gen territory I'm afraid.
ckstine
Member
Leo Torres has some amazing stuff on his yt, I'd recommend everyone check out his other stuff. Tbh, I don't think this video is close to his most impressive work.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Thats too optimistic. 2040 on PS7 maybe when Rockstar releases RDR3. If we manage to survive that long.
AMD is struggling to get their rasterization performance to scale up as they go to smaller nodes. The PS5 Pro is roughly only 1.45x faster in non-RT performance releasing 4 years after the PS5. In comparison, the PS4 Pro GPU released just 3 years after the PS4, and was over 2.5x more powerful. I would be surprised if we get a 30-35 tflops GPU in 2028 from AMD/Sony. At least when looking at the OG tflops, not the bs inflated ones they have been advertising since RDNA3.
i dont think 3x improvement in GPU would get us those visuals. maybe if the devs have some kind of software breakthrough where the finally figure out mesh shaders and improve RT performance in their games two fold.
PeteBull
Member
its stable 60fps and reswise i think close to 1800p, ofc game cant look like hellblade2 there
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I said Horizon Legos, not hellblade 2. ;pits stable 60fps and reswise i think close to 1800p, ofc game cant look like hellblade2 there
Horizon legos is also targeting 60 fps. Its obviously not going to be as high as 1800p, but the image quality is quite good.
there is no reason astrobot devs should be targeting 1800p or native 4k like they did in the original demo. Push the visuals instead of pixels. This is a $60 ps5 game. Not a free pack-in demo.
PeteBull
Member
Lego horizon looks slow af compared to controlled chaos of astrobot tho ;D
Edit: and lastgen, as proven by switch port, astrobot wouldnt even hold 480p on switch if u kept all the current gen pace of the game
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PeteBull
Member
Dont look at tflops numbers but how top first party exclusives improved
In case of uncharted 4 u had native 1080p30 bumped up to native 1440p30 , thats obviously not 2,3x improvement since full hd to 1440p is+ 78% of pixel amount only, still ocassional drops below 30fps tho
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
it was actually more than 2.3x more powerful. 2.3x more tflops plus the 25% IPC gains when going from GCN 1 to Polaris. There is no such IPC gains going from RDNA 2 to RDNA 4, and that 45% figure is coming straight from Sony. You are not stupid enough to fall for the 33 tflops figure Sony will undoubtedly tout in marketing materials, so lets not even go there.
Back then, tflops actually meant something and performance translated roughly equivalent to tflops. Not in all cases since PS4 pro was bottlenecked by the mere 25% increase in bandwidth, but other than that the PS4 pro and X1X performed exactly as their tflops suggested. both in terms of improving from their base x1 and ps4 benchmarks, but also when compared directly to each other with x1x performing equivalent to its tflops in many games thanks to a lack of memory bandwidth bottleneck.
Bottomline is that sony/amd was able to increase actual tflops by just 1.67x after 4 years. When last gen they were already at 2.3x (plus IPC gains) after just 3 years. We are not going to get a 5x tflops increase or 8x raw power increase next gen. For that to happen, we would need 50 tflops (100 rdna 3 tflops) and a 50% boost in IPC gains and thats simply not happening. What we can hope for is IPC gains in ray tracing performance and it seems sony has already improved it by 2-4x, but raw GPU power will not come easy.
plenty of games have gotten switch ports. Witcher 3, Doom, batman AK, Mortal kombat, Nier, It Takes Two. It means nothing really. The PS5 version of Horizon Legos looks legitimately next gen in comparison to Astrobot and thats all that matters. If it can be downported to the switch then astrobot surely can as well.Lego horizon looks slow af compared to controlled chaos of astrobot tho ;D
Edit: and lastgen, as proven by switch port, astrobot wouldnt even hold 480p on switch if u kept all the current gen pace of the game
PeteBull
Member
I usually agree with ur pov, say 95% of times but here i strongly diseagree, sorry. Astrobot looks next gen gameplay wise, lego horizon looks constrained by last gen(and it obviously is, otherwise switch port wouldnt be done so easily).
Here those games trailers for comparision:
vs
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dont look at tflops numbers but how top first party exclusives improved
In case of uncharted 4 u had native 1080p30 bumped up to native 1440p30 , thats obviously not 2,3x improvement since full hd to 1440p is+ 78% of pixel amount only, still ocassional drops below 30fps tho
I wouldnt really look at ND's PS4 Pro efforts. They had issues with implementing checkerboarding and settled for 1440p instead.
4kcb is 4.1 million pixels or 2x the pixels of 1080p games we saw on the PS4. Checkerboard upscaling has its own cost like DLSS and FSR2, so that 2.3x power plus IPC gains almost translates 1:1 with performance in most Sony games that went from 1080p to 4kcb.
It was not true for all games since PS4 Pro only had a 25% increase in memory bandwidth, and that caused some issues at higher resolutions, but x1x was far better designed and we saw A LOT of native 4k games on the x1x. Some even 4k 60 fps. For example, rdr2 was 900p (1.44 million pixels) on the x1 (1.3 tflops) , and native 4k (8.2 million pixels) on the 6 tflops x1x. An increase of 5.69x. Roughly in line with the 5.75x increase in raw performance (4.6x tflops and 1.25x IPC gains)
ND's PS5 efforts are a much better indication of how tflops and IPC gains correlates to performance. The base 1080p image is now being run at native 4k on the PS5 and averages in the high 40s and low 50s. Thats in line with the near 8x improvement in raw GPU performance.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, i was just talking about graphics here. Back when this was revealed, I lamented at how boring and safe Horizon Legos is in terms of gameplay and we just cant seem to get both visual fidelity and good gameplay in games anymore. I would love to see Astro bot at this level of fidelity. Some here even wondered if this was CG.
PeteBull
Member
I just go for top visuals in games, uncharted4 was one of best looking games so we are sure it really was using if not 100% then at least close to 100% of what ps4 had to offer, cant do it with fifa games for example
Another good example is GoW:R
And again for fairness, native 1080p30 on ps4, on pr0 in resolution mode u got dynamic res 1440p to 1656p- so again in heavy scenes ps4pr0 has to go down to 1440p native aka 78% more pixels from base ps4, and u cant say studio is not talented/didnt put in tremendous amount of resources/work here,
Another good example is GoW:R
And again for fairness, native 1080p30 on ps4, on pr0 in resolution mode u got dynamic res 1440p to 1656p- so again in heavy scenes ps4pr0 has to go down to 1440p native aka 78% more pixels from base ps4, and u cant say studio is not talented/didnt put in tremendous amount of resources/work here,
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I just go for top visuals in games, uncharted4 was one of best looking games so we are sure it really was using if not 100% then at least close to 100% of what ps4 had to offer, cant do it with fifa games for example
Another good example is GoW:R
And again for fairness, native 1080p30 on ps4, on pr0 in resolution mode u got dynamic res 1440p to 1656p- so again in heavy scenes ps4pr0 has to go down to 1440p native aka 78% more pixels from base ps4, and u cant say studio is not talented/didnt put in tremendous amount of resources/work here,
But the video says that they stay at 1656p most of the time. I wouldnt look at 1% drops to measure GPU performance. We look at averages on the PC side. 1656p is well over 100% more pixels. They couldve done 4kcb just like they did with GOW 2018 but they chose to go with 1656p plus TAAU which has its own cost. Again, it lines up with the 2.3x boost in performance plus some more thanks to the 25% increase in Polaris IPC gains.
The PS5 performance is also increasing roughly 1:1 with the tflops/IPC gains as well. I played the native 4k vrr mode and it was routinely in the 40s going up to 50s indoors just like uncharted 4 and Death Stranding.
if you think these UE5 demos can be done on a 3x more powerful GPU then fine, we will see. If you think AMD/Sony can get us to 50 tflops (100 rdna 4 tflops) then we will see. I just dont know how stuff like this can be achieved with just 3x boost in visuals. Maybe the substantial boost in ray tracing performance can get us there. but you just know devs will be targeting higher resolutions and 60 fps next gen just like they have this gen.
If Ghost of Tsushima 2 can come close to this level of fidelity then maybe next gen sony studios can there. Right now ubisoft and other third party studios havent even come close to this level of photorealism we are seeing in UE5 demos.
PeteBull
Member
I wanna see gta6 actual gameplay, if rockstar wizards cant do it, probably noone else can, since this gen first/2nd party devs for the most(only few exceptions) part dropping the ball hard.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
rockstar is going with an stylized art style so we arent getting these UE5 photorealistic graphics with them until RDR3. Whenever that comes out.
EDIT: Crystal Dynamics's Tomb Raider and Witcher 4 are using UE5 and are A-tier developers. I suppose we should wait to see what they can do and if they can come close to that level of photorealism we are seeing in these UE5 demos.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
This bamboo thing is how REAL nextgen should look.
I have no hope for sushima 2 to look this good tbh.
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Masterofchapter
Banned
If ghost 2 is a linear walking simulator then yes
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I have high hopes for Tsushima 2 on PS5. Their artists are so good with the colors they use and the foliage/leaves making the world feel alive. Imagine Tsushima with denser geometry and better character models/lighting.
That being said Ghost 2 isnt getting close to these visuals.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Dont get me started ...i cant believe in 2024 console owners are being treated like such shit from publishers as to not get something as wanted as an RDR2 update ...console gamers should be fucking ready to revolt ...pc gamers wouldnt let them get away with this bullshit
Balducci30
Member
This is not real time I presume? I doubt we get close to this until next-next gen if not later in a legitimate game
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
the description says its realtime. but we dont know what GPU they are using. the other demo posted was not real time.
Mayne, I was so happy to see that video posted by ResetEra, the visuals are gorgeous. I said to myself these kinda visuals won’t be doable this gen but next gen for sure until I read your post and now I am depressed again!
elbourreau
Member
From the artist himself.
"Thank you! And at 4k it was running around 2-3 fps on a 3060ti - although it was more like 30-40 fps for 1080p..." (from his artstation)
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
so i guess its possible on the ps5 at 1080p 30 fps but its just a demo so who knows.
Portugeezer
Member
Visions of Mana PS5 performance
Yes, it's crossgen still.
Yes, it's crossgen still.
Lethal01
Member
Visions of Mana PS5 performance
Yes, it's crossgen still.
Stylized, guess that means it looks like a PS3 game.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Lets see how Marvel 1943 looks first, because if that can run this gen, next gen should be able to run those visuals. Hellblade 2 already gives me that CGI like look…
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Former GTA dev says 'it's time for a revolution' where 'animation is more AI-driven and physics-driven' than done by hand
"If anyone is going to make that step it's going to be Rockstar," said Obbe Vermeij, former technical director at Rockstar North.
As a guy fascinated by Animations and Physics more than anything else including Graphics it is high time we see huge, astronomical leaps being made in that area. Last time we saw a proper leap being made in this area was back in the PS3 era, being a sports gamer doesn’t help either. It makes me hella pissed that we are not seeing any kinds of improvements, not even an iota being made to Animations and Physics.Former GTA dev says 'it's time for a revolution' where 'animation is more AI-driven and physics-driven' than done by hand
"If anyone is going to make that step it's going to be Rockstar," said Obbe Vermeij, former technical director at Rockstar North.www.pcgamer.com
Same thing with AI!
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Productivity improvements from ai anims is possible, but in general realistic animations means worse controlling characters.
Genuine question, how so? I’m intrigued to know!
Imagine running and then doing 270 degree turn on pc or going down stairs fast and dodging when your fore foot is in air. Cant really animate either scenario both responsively and realistically at the same time.
thatJohann
Member
Would love a FireWatch remaster with UE5 graphics.