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[kevboard]

No there is only one issue which is low base resolutions. Framerate has nothing to do with IQ. It does NOT introduce artifacts, ghosting, shimmering or aliasing. you are talking nonsense.

If you are one of those people who think UE5 isnt a massive leap then you do you. i will enjoy hellblade 2, wukong and now silent hill 2 which are generational leaps over last gen games even on consoles at 30 fps.

I find it hilarious that you are comparing jedi survivor to battlefront 2 instead of jedi fallen order. the difference is massive.

why should I compare 2 games running on the same shitty engine?

UE4 (and now UE5) is the issue here. and sadly other engines like Northlight go down the same route with unstable effects that need constant denoising through TAA.

but I love jow your last gif therr shows Fallen Order having way better looking water reactions lol

oh I forgot to add an image of Battlefront 2 as a comparison:

this game ran at dynamic 4k at 60fps with 40 player battles, vehicles, explosions etc... on a last gen console.
the One X version typically ran at around 1800p. and it does use checkerboard rendering on all systems, but you can barely even tell it's not native.

what we should expect from current gen games is the same resolution and framerate, with improved details and effects.
what we instead get 90% of the time is improved details and effects, at half the framerate, and lower resolutions

 

[SlimySnake]

and once again wasting GPU resources on nonsense like Lumen GI.
this game has almost entirely static lighting. why the actual fuck is the GI not baked? or maybe voxel based GI? the answer to that question is: slapping Lumin onto your game is easier.
with a proper engine, and proper performance oriented GI, this game could probably run at 1440p 60fps or even higher, while barely looking any different

Watch the video. The performance mode uses a lower quality GI and you can immediately tell the difference. What do you think is going to happen when the turn it off altogether? and yes, they can add point lights to properly illuminate these areas but we literally just saw how expensive they can be in the megalights video i posted. every light source that you bake in has its own cost so i wouldnt be so sure about it hitting 1440p 60 fps.

You want devs to go through 20-50 hour games placing baked lights everywhere? And there is no guarantee that they will look accurate either. there is a reason why last gen games look like shit in interiors.

here is a game that runs at 1440p 60 fps using baked lighting.

Lumen not only brings in dynamic lighting, it brings in proper light bounce and reflections that apply not just on puddles but also all materials.

 

[CGNoire]

oh there are trade offs, its just not the shadows. Epic specifically said that the shadows will get better.

that said, someone in the main thread posted a tweet of some dev pointing out some ghosting artifacts as a result of mega lights being turned on.

Uggghhh..... I Hate ghosting.

 

[CGNoire]

and once again wasting GPU resources on nonsense like Lumen GI.
this game has almost entirely static lighting. why the actual fuck is the GI not baked? or maybe voxel based GI? the answer to that question is: slapping Lumen onto your game is easier.
with a proper engine, and proper performance oriented GI, this game could probably run at 1440p 60fps or even higher, while barely looking any different.


this is exactly what I'm talking about. wasting GPU render time on entirely nonsensical bullshit, resulting in the choice between low framerate or low resolution. when the game could look the same while running at high res and high fps at the same time

Because realtime GI isnt mostly about the enviroments. It mostly benefits dynamic objects moving through them.

 

[SlimySnake]

oh I forgot to add an image of Battlefront 2 as a comparison:

this game ran at dynamic 4k at 60fps with 40 player battles, vehicles, explosions etc... on a last gen console.
the One X version typically ran at around 1800p. and it does use checkerboard rendering on all systems, but you can barely even tell it's not native.

what we should expect from current gen games is the same resolution and framerate, with improved details and effects.
what we instead get 90% of the time is improved details and effects, at half the framerate, and lower resolutions

So you are comparing a single player game with a multiplayer game. built on two different engines. by two different developers. using a mid gen console which was literally 4-6x more powerful than the actual last gen console which ran the game at sub 900p resolution at way worse image quality.

Why not compare it to BF2042? same developer. same engine. 128 player battles. 10x bigger worlds. better destruction. same or higher resolutions. Thats what you wanted right? well you got it.

Lets look at what respawn did to improve from Jedi Fallen order.
1) Better quality assets
2) Larger environments
3) RTGI
4) RT Reflections
5) 1440p internal boosted to 4k using FSR2. base ps4 was just 1080p, base x1 was 900p and lower.
6) And yes even 60 fps with RT turned off. Just like you want it.

Here is me running Battlefront 2 on my PC maxed out at native 4k last year when someone else was saying how it looks so much better than modern games. it might look great in stills but it looks fairly dated now with last gen lighting and asset quality.



This is star wars jedi survivor. if you think this looks worse than tlou part 1 with its baked lighting and battlefront 2 then i cant help you.

 

[Kikorin]

This is peak graphics ever, coming from a jap dev:

 

[Balducci30]

well there are 2 issues here. low framerates and low base resolutions.

both don't work well with modern engines.
both is kinda the fault of the developers most of the time as well as the engine's.

and we shouldn't really have either low resolutions nor low framerates, but dogshit engines like UE5 and developers unwilling to modify UE5 to what their game needs (which was originally the idea behind UE4/5 but isn't being done), result in games that look barely any better than last gen games, while running at either lower resolutions than last gen or at the same resolutions and 30fps.

compare Jedi Survivor on current gen to Battlefront 2 on Xbox One X.

Battlefront 2 has excellent image quality, at 60fps, great lighting, great looking materials... it has all. and has all of it while massive 40 player battles are happening

now Jedi Survivor, which looks like someone vomited at your screen and wiped it off with a dirty hankerchief.
it completely breaks down in motion, even if you use TAA on PC without upsampling. and on console you have the choice between unstable 30fps with constant RT fizzle and 60fps with omnipresent edge shimmering.


so yeah. It's a terrible situation either way.
and the sad thing is that other engines started to copy Unreal Engine

how did you survive the previous 15 years of console gaming - I don’t get the push for super high image quality and 60fps in console games at all. I wish it was something developers weren’t even thinking about to be honest so they just maximized what they could do with 30 and like 1440

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

One day baby, one day.
Crazy Ken was a bit ahead of time

Imagine TLOU 3 with visuals like this..

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

and once again wasting GPU resources on nonsense like Lumen GI.
this game has almost entirely static lighting. why the actual fuck is the GI not baked? or maybe voxel based GI? the answer to that question is: slapping Lumen onto your game is easier.
with a proper engine, and proper performance oriented GI, this game could probably run at 1440p 60fps or even higher, while barely looking any different.


this is exactly what I'm talking about. wasting GPU render time on entirely nonsensical bullshit, resulting in the choice between low framerate or low resolution. when the game could look the same while running at high res and high fps at the same time

I think that whatever tech gives the desired results should be used.TLOU 2 has no RTGI and looks better than 99% of games ever released…

 

[RodriGames40]

This is peak graphics ever, coming from a jap dev:

Kojima never misses.

 

[kevboard]

I think that whatever tech gives the desired results should be used.TLOU 2 has no RTGI and looks better than 99% of games ever released…

TLOU2 has fully static GI, because the lighting is fully static. this is the correct thing to do.
it's crazy to me how many games these days have extremely expensive GI (Lumen, or even UE4 RTGI in Jedi Survivor) while almost nothing in the game would ever need such a GI solution.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

TLOU2 has fully static GI, because the lighting is fully static. this is the correct thing to do.
it's crazy to me how many games these days have extremely expensive GI (Lumen, or even UE4 RTGI in Jedi Survivor) while almost nothing in the game would ever need such a GI solution.

Exactly

 

[Kaiserstark]

TLOU2 has fully static GI, because the lighting is fully static. this is the correct thing to do.
it's crazy to me how many games these days have extremely expensive GI (Lumen, or even UE4 RTGI in Jedi Survivor) while almost nothing in the game would ever need such a GI solution.

If I'm not mistaken on UE 5 theres no way to bake the Lumen data into a lightmap but i think now a new feature was added that allows you to use Lumen reflections with baked lighting.

it's not surprising that most studios choose to use Lumen even if as you say for some games it would be more logical to have a fully static GI because it would free up more resources for other things and particularly to improve performance on consoles but that would be more work than just using Lumen like with shadow which will inevitably no longer be dynamic.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Imagine a TLOU game with this fidelity. This proves there is a ways to go for photorealistic visuals, but not as far as you think, I say late PS6 life cycle early PS7. Hellblade 2, Wukong and The Matrix Awakens have the environment fidelity and Hellblade 2 and Wukong have some of the most “next gen” character models. There needs to be wayyy more improvement in many areas like physics, textures, hair and polycount in character models etc…

 

[Balducci30]

What I can't forgive Sony and MS for though is for not following through on their own promises. It's THEIR consoles they should be pushing the tech! Sony took it a step further though with Cerny's talks about the SSD and the importance of their relationship with Epic and UE5. Feels like it was a bunch of hot air and them putting out better looking versions of games on PC feels like a slap in the face.

Oh I’m never buying consoles at launch again. I bought both the series x and the ps5 the day they came out. The huge boost in teraflops, the supposedly insane jump cpu-wise that was really holding back games from their potential. The ssds. And then 4 years of cross gen.

I’m probably just going to get whatever the next Nvidia card is, like a 5090, a nice cpu and that’ll probably last me through the entirety of ps6’s generation. If they don’t turn it around

 

[Pharaoh 117]

Silent Hill 2 looks fucking great. UE5 delivers again.

 

[PeteBull]

Imagine TLOU 3 with visuals like this..

I rather not, with druckmans ideas we would basically get ghay gangbang

 

[Balducci30]

They switched Halo to UE5 and it looks far better than anything those guys have ever cooked up.

 

[RodriGames40]

They switched Halo to UE5 and it looks far better than anything those guys have ever cooked up.

The irony isn't it? And there's someone in the announcement thread that claimed no serious publisher uses Unreal... The next few years will be revealing to some certainly.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Halo will now be done using UE5

Halo Studios

 

[SlimySnake]

The hate for UE5 is absolutely idiotic.

the new renders look amazing.

 

[arkhamguy123]

The hate for UE5 is absolutely idiotic.

the new renders look amazing.

Fucking modern halo shitting on PlayStation first parties

What is this gen man

 

[RodriGames40]

The hate for UE5 is absolutely idiotic.

the new renders look amazing.

"B-but propietary engines! Tech consolidation."

Dude, consolidation is exactly what we need regarding tech. Maybe that way every game will finally look like it's supposed to.

 

[SlimySnake]

The irony isn't it? And there's someone in the announcement thread that claimed no serious publisher uses Unreal... The next few years will be revealing to some certainly.

People have gone absolutely insane. CD project just chose it. Nearly every single MS studio game is using UE5. Perfect Dark, Hellblade 2, Avowed, Gears of war, South Of Midnight. and now Halo.

This is a massive leap over Infinite and its clear that UE5 is allowing them to do that. The devs even said that this frees them up from developing tech and lets them focus on creating games. it's a win win.

But it cant do 60 fps at high resolutions so people cry. Umm, this game wont launch until 2028-2030 anyway and you will have better console hardware by then.

it's all so stupid. People dont think and just love to shit on anything thats good. I saw that in the silent hill 2 thread. People posting bad pics of tlou2 thinking they look great just to prove we dont need lumen or nanite. now we are trashing UE5 which can do 60 fps on consoles, but not at high resolutions like the 30 fps modes even though everything releases on PCs and the PS5 Pro is literally coming out next month and will fix that. They were ok with cross gen trash for years. Now they are shitting on next gen stuff because it has some shimmering artifacts on 60 fps modes. GTFO and pay up. You paid $500 to play last gen games at 60 fps. Pay another $700 to play next gen games at 60 fps.

 

[Balducci30]

The irony isn't it? And there's someone in the announcement thread that claimed no serious publisher uses Unreal... The next few years will be revealing to some certainly.

I’d be all for proprietary shit if that was getting results - but the most graphically impressive games I’ve seen this gen are UE5. By a mile. Compare Wukong or Hellblade or even Silent Hill 2 to something like FF7 rebirth or Halo infinite - it’s like they’re from a different generation. Theres a reason CDPR is adopting it - and it’s only improving as an engine. They are ahead of the game. If that’s what it takes to get games that actually look like they belong on new hardware rather than smoother/clearer versions of PS4 graphics - then fuck it, go for it.

 

[Pharaoh 117]

At this point UE5 is just running circles around everyone. Not to say there aren't other good engines out there but I guess the amount of work to update them nowadays are just too much and doesn't make sense for most devs. The fact that CDPR dropped the Red Engine speaks volumes. Maybe if a publisher is big enough and concentrate all their efforts into one engine that can be shared between all their teams it can still work but the way Sony is doing, with each dev team having their own engine, is proving to be at the very least a sub optimal strategy nowadays.

 

[SlimySnake]

Fucking modern halo shitting on PlayStation first parties

What is this gen man

I am not even going to bother worrying about those studios anymore. It's been 4 years. It's time to move on, accept what they are going to offer, and celebrate the guys who are delivering the next gen leaps instead of hoping for miracles.

Maybe next generation they will finally see the light and switch to UE5 but till then I am not going to lose any sleep over them not giving us that generational leap. Their games still look great despite the last gen tech so I will just treat them like i used to treat b tier games from ubisoft, ea and activision and enjoy them for what they are instead of what i want them to be. there is still lots to be admired thanks to the art design and cinematography talent over at those studios so it's not the end of the world. Ratchet, Demon Souls, Spiderman 2 and HFW still look beautiful at times. They are just not interested in being top tier anymore, but there are plenty of other developers like rockstar, amy henning, coalition studios, ubisoft massive, game science and playground games who are still looking to push the bar.

 

[Balducci30]

I am not even going to bother worrying about those studios anymore. It's been 4 years. It's time to move on, accept what they are going to offer, and celebrate the guys who are delivering the next gen leaps instead of hoping for miracles.

Maybe next generation they will finally see the light and switch to UE5 but till then I am not going to lose any sleep over them not giving us that generational leap. Their games still look great despite the last gen tech so I will just treat them like i used to treat b tier games from ubisoft, ea and activision and enjoy them for what they are instead of what i want them to be. there is still lots to be admired thanks to the art design and cinematography talent over at those studios so it's not the end of the world. Ratchet, Demon Souls, Spiderman 2 and HFW still look beautiful at times. They are just not interested in being top tier anymore, but there are plenty of other developers like rockstar, amy henning, coalition studios, ubisoft massive, game science and playground games who are still looking to push the bar.

I’m sure naughty dog is going to put something out that will blow us away - I would be absolutely shocked if they didn’t. They know their reputation

 

[SlimySnake]

I’m sure naughty dog is going to put something out that will blow us away - I would be absolutely shocked if they didn’t. They know their reputation

they dont care about their reputation anymore. or they wouldnt have put this out as a ps5 only game.

Besides, i thought insomniac and sucker punch both cared about their reputation and would deliver next gen only games. Insomniac only cared about it when they released that bullshot trailer before downgrading the shit out of their game, and sucker punch didnt even bother doing that.

It's time to move on. We have four years of this stuff. GG was boasting about shipping lego horizon on the switch even though they are releasing the horizon remaster on the ps5 without any kind of RT or mesh shader support. same draw distance issues as the last gen HFW nearly 3 years after launching that game.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Fucking modern halo shitting on PlayStation first parties

What is this gen man

Nothing has been released yet and rumors are the Halo remake is multiplat.

 

[Represent.]

So, how is silent hill 2 remake?

Does it look better than Alan Wake 2?

 

[SlimySnake]

This guy tested megalights on a 3060 and over a 1000 light sources. It worked fine with lumen offering around 50 fps until he turned on shadows which tanked the framerate down to 15 fps with all lights in view. Turning on megalights, the fps jumps to 60 fps.

there are some ghosting issues during motion. hope they can clear that up with future updates.

 

[arkhamguy123]

I am not even going to bother worrying about those studios anymore. It's been 4 years. It's time to move on, accept what they are going to offer, and celebrate the guys who are delivering the next gen leaps instead of hoping for miracles.

Maybe next generation they will finally see the light and switch to UE5 but till then I am not going to lose any sleep over them not giving us that generational leap. Their games still look great despite the last gen tech so I will just treat them like i used to treat b tier games from ubisoft, ea and activision and enjoy them for what they are instead of what i want them to be. there is still lots to be admired thanks to the art design and cinematography talent over at those studios so it's not the end of the world. Ratchet, Demon Souls, Spiderman 2 and HFW still look beautiful at times. They are just not interested in being top tier anymore, but there are plenty of other developers like rockstar, amy henning, coalition studios, ubisoft massive, game science and playground games who are still looking to push the bar.

Ghost of Yotei straight up broke my man Slimy

 

[Javi97]

 

[SlimySnake]

Unreal Engine 5 is amazing.

 

[RodriGames40]

This guy tested megalights on a 3060 and over a 1000 light sources. It worked fine with lumen offering around 50 fps until he turned on shadows which tanked the framerate down to 15 fps with all lights in view. Turning on megalights, the fps jumps to 60 fps.

there are some ghosting issues during motion. hope they can clear that up with future updates.

Holy shit, this tech is seriously insane. I never thought I'd see the day a PS5 level GPU could handle that many lights at 60 frames... And then Epic is somehow not at top.

 

[SlimySnake]

Ghost of Yotei straight up broke my man Slimy

nah, im glad that we will finally get the pre-downgraded graphics.

 

[arkhamguy123]

nah, im glad that we will finally get the pre-downgraded graphics.

That uhhh… that actually looks better than what they showed of Yotei :/

 

[SlimySnake]

That uhhh… that actually looks better than what they showed of Yotei :/

Yeah the first GoT teaser looked better than the GoY footage. You should check it out. I posted it a few pages back.

But the gameplay trailer from e3 2018 was also downgraded especially the final fight with that remake samurai. The leaves no longer reacted to her footsteps in the retail brai version but that looks to be in this time around.

Of course, nd also downgraded many things from their own e3 2018 demo and never put them back in the ps5 only reboot so maybe hoping sucker punch might at least achieve pre downgraded ps4 pro graphics with their ps5 sequel is a bit too optimistic.

 

[AW_CL]

It looks like a lot of major studios are making the shift to UE5. The only problem is Unreal Engine makes games so similar to each other it's almost like the new generic.

 

[March Climber]

It looks like a lot of major studios are making the shift to UE5. The only problem is Unreal Engine makes games so similar to each other it's almost like the new generic.

That responsibility lies upon the artists, not the engine. There are hundreds of examples of UE games that don’t look like each other. The biggest thing that stuck out in the Halo footage was the flood planet (the red fleshy scene) because it wasn’t using stock rock asset #168.

 

[Lethal01]

That responsibility lies upon the artists, not the engine. There are hundreds of examples of UE games that don’t look like each other. The biggest thing that stuck out in the Halo footage was the flood planet (the red fleshy scene) because it wasn’t using stock rock asset #168.

Very true but artist working in a totally different engine do have the benefit of different flighting systems making the game naturally have a slightly different feel.

 

[GymWolf]

We live in a world where fucking bloopers\chinese studio at their first big game probably made the best looking game of the year and a nextgen sony first party doesn't even look as good as the reveal of the prequel...

Aren't you guys having fun?

 

[arkhamguy123]

We live in a world where fucking bloopers probably made the best looking game of the year and a nextgen sony first party doesn't even look as good as the reveal of the prequel...

Aren't you guys having fun?

Me when Playstation studios reveals another last gen looking ps5 game

 

[Von Hugh]

Me when Playstation studios reveals another last gen looking ps5 game

People keep buying these things -> Sony keeps making these things

 

[Buggy Loop]

The hate for UE5 is absolutely idiotic.

the new renders look amazing.

Looks amazing. I'm glad that some studios realize that its a losing battle to even keep up with UE. Tons of money spent on R&D for inhouse engines and in the end, probably a shit experience for the developers themselves as you'll never get the community and help that UE has.

Epic just has to fix the goddamn stutters of their engine

 

[DanielG165]

The hate for UE5 is absolutely idiotic.

the new renders look amazing.

Yup. Halo has always been a showstopper, graphical showcase, with Halo 4 stretching the 360 to its absolute limits. H5 and Infinite respectively were both disappointments in this regard, with neither of which pushing the boundaries in any real way. This new direction, as early as it is, is looking to return the franchise to that boundary-pushing tech and graphical showcase again.

These renders look absolutely mighty.

 

[SlimySnake]

Epic just has to fix the goddamn stutters of their engine

They did. SH2 is on the 5.1 Build of the engine which didnt have better shader capture for the pre-shader comp process. Same goes for the traversal stutters which have also been reduced in the latest builds.

I suppose we should blame Epic for not making it easy to upgrade from older to newer builds but both Game Science and Bloober chose not to upgrade to the latest builds so it must not be easy.

Future games shouldnt have these issues.

P.S KZ2 had traversal stutter on PS3 every time you entered a new area. They fixed it somewhat after a few patches and completely removed it in KZ3. Horizon 1 and 2 dont have any traversal stutter. Death Stranding didnt either. It's something Epic should have fixed in UE3 let alone waiting till 2023 to fix in UE5.

 

[SlimySnake]

It looks like a lot of major studios are making the shift to UE5. The only problem is Unreal Engine makes games so similar to each other it's almost like the new generic.

I see this sentiment all the time on this board. There are plenty of Unreal Engine games that look completely different from each other. It's just that the engine is capable of delivering incredibly high quality assets, materials and close to photorealistic lighting so people just assume games look samey.

 

[mrMUR_96]

I wonder why it seems so difficult for devs to move to new versions of the engine. It's a shame to see new UE5 games releasing when more recent versions of the engine have fixed a lot of the issues the games have.