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[GymWolf]

Is this in game? What is this? Monster hunter?

Mh wilds, It must be a cutscene, a ps5 would catch fire trying to simulate appropriate melty cheese physics in real time

 

[SimTourist]

One day baby, one day.
Crazy Ken was a bit ahead of time

"You can communicate to a new cybercity. Did you see the movie The Matrix? Same interface. Same concept. Starting from next year, you can jack into The Matrix!"

 

[PeteBull]

One day baby, one day.
Crazy Ken was a bit ahead of time

maybe ps7 earliest;p

 

[RaduN]

Mh wilds, It must be a cutscene, a ps5 would catch fire trying to simulate appropriate melty cheese physics in real time

So are the cutscenes in this game prerendered? Strange of Capcom to do that now, especially when they always had among the best realtime cutscenes regardless of gen.

 

[GymWolf]

So are the cutscenes in this game prerendered? Strange of Capcom to do that now, especially when they always had among the best realtime cutscenes regardless of gen.

I have no idea, but that melty simulation look so far beyond anything we ever had in gaming that i would be surprised if it was in real time.

Most cutscenes are probably in real time.

 

[Audiophile]

they are not massive leaps but they are powerful enough for 1440p 30 fps games. I dont know why they had to go native 4k this gen. thats a 4x leap in resolution when last gen they took a 2x going from 720p to 1080p. Xbox settled for 900p so a 1.5x leap.

But lets face it, only cross gen games and sony developers did that. Ghosts might also be native 4k so yes, maybe thats the reason that particular game doesnt have the next gen leap we were expecting from sony devs. That said, most games in the last 2 years have targeted 1440p and still havent delivered anything close to matrix awakens or that OG PS5 demo. Wukong, Hellblade 2, and to a lesser extent some other UE5 games but the vast majority of games target 1440p giving us a 1.75x res boost, but dont seem to be able to get us that next gen leap like UE5 games and demos do.

There is also a problem with simply reusing assets. Say what you will about starfield but they did not reuse any shaders. every material, every asset, every object just looked new and shiny. But AC shadows, ghost of tsushima, ff7 rebirth, dragons dogma 2, spiderman 2, are all using last gen materials and assets. I dont get that part. whats the point in using RTgi when your materials are still last gen? i LOVE the draw distance in spiderman 2 and the lighting in many different lighting conditions, but the assets are such a minor upgrade that it feels lazy for a game 5 year in development with a $385 million budget.

ghosts feels like DLC because it looks very similar despite the visual upgrades that will become apparent closer to launch when we see more footage. i honestly dont care who is responsible. the fact of the matter is that even first party devs are reusing assets and refusing to use the tech cerny put in there for them.

This'll hopefully be one good thing going into the PS6 gen. Most TVs will still be 4K and most games will probably be targeting ~1440p with even better ML upscaling techniques and more plentiful/capable ML hardware taking us to 4K for a relatively small frame time cost vs the >2x of native 4K.

Even with 8K modes being available as a nice little bonus, 4K will be the standard; and the main display resolution target for this go around won't be increasing for the first time.

The extra capabilities can be almost entirely focused on prettier pixels (and hopefully more simulation/world function too).

 

[Madserb2023]

maybe ps7 earliest;p

Even if the PS7 in theory could push graphics that are close to real life, unless AI gets to a level where it can actually make the game in its entirety, it would take 20 years and 1000 developers to make a world look like that.

 

[SlimySnake]

Looks like Silent Hill 2 remake is the real deal.

PC version is good too. Uses hardware lumen on PC.

 

[SimTourist]

Even if the PS7 in theory could push graphics that are close to real life, unless AI gets to a level where it can actually make the game in its entirety, it would take 20 years and 1000 developers to make a world look like that.

You're missing the point, you can have PS2/3 level assets underneath and have AI draw a photoreal image on top, no need for lots of developers and time. It can't be done in real time for now but the result is better than anything you can do with traditional rendering.

 

[SlimySnake]

You're missing the point, you can have PS2/3 level assets underneath and have AI draw a photoreal image on top, no need for lots of developers and time. It can't be done in real time for now but the result is better than anything you can do with traditional rendering.

yeah, AI will change the way game engines and even gaming hardware is designed. We dont know yet just how it will happen, but it will be a paradigm shift.

I am curious to see what nvidia is cooking up for the 5000 series. if they stick with the traditional increasing CUs model then we are likely a decade away from AI taking over traditional rendering techniques. But if they somehow manage to leverage AI to help offload some rendering load from the shader cores than we might be in for some really interesting results and bigger leaps than previously thought possible.

 

[Audiophile]

I wonder if we'll see a game pull off ray reconstruction on the Pro before this gen's out.

 

[SlimySnake]

Playing Star Wars Jedi Survivor again to check out the new performance patch. Things are slightly better i suppose. Game is still a looker, but Star wars is clearly better. Way better textures, lighting and rt effects.

One thing I will say about Suvivor is just how amazing the lighting can look at times. I dont think it has to do with RTGI either. I think they just improved their base lighting system and now everything just looks right. There are times when Im under some lights where the materials on the protagonist just pop as if there is hero lighting on it. Then you go into a cave or a dark room, and it still looks great. Not overly bright. not too dark. It looks beautiful despite not having any fancy lighting or materials to gawk at. Maybe in those areas the RTGI is is helping out. I dont know. All i know is that going from Horizon FW and Spiderman 2 both of which can look amazing at times and exceedingly last gen in interiors, both Outlaws and Survivor look far more consistent and simply beautiful.

That's not to say they dont have any flaws. Survivor looks a bit too clean and could use some volumetric effects a la Calisto and Outlaws. The textures in Jedi's open world levels dont look too hot. But the lighting just makes it such a pleasant game to look at all times. Outlaws could have better rocks and character models. HFW has the best looking NPCs ive ever seen and Spiderman 2 has the best damn draw distance in any open world game yet. I am shocked at how much detail is visible when you are flying and how high quality those distant buildings can look.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is crazy tbh. I never realized just how blurry TLOU2 was in the 1440p mode.

The fact that this kind of stuff is showing up on youtube is just crazy. 1440p in other games doesnt look this blurry. But 4k and i guess 4k PSSR quality reconstruction seems to have brought back that texture detail.

 

[arkhamguy123]

This is crazy tbh. I never realized just how blurry TLOU2 was in the 1440p mode.

The fact that this kind of stuff is showing up on youtube is just crazy. 1440p in other games doesnt look this blurry. But 4k and i guess 4k PSSR quality reconstruction seems to have brought back that texture detail.

Not impressed.

“Oooh look this almost 5 year old PS4 game is slightly crisper when you literally zoom in 3x! $700 please ”

Lame

 

[RodriGames40]

yeah, AI will change the way game engines and even gaming hardware is designed. We dont know yet just how it will happen, but it will be a paradigm shift.

I am curious to see what nvidia is cooking up for the 5000 series. if they stick with the traditional increasing CUs model then we are likely a decade away from AI taking over traditional rendering techniques. But if they somehow manage to leverage AI to help offload some rendering load from the shader cores than we might be in for some really interesting results and bigger leaps than previously thought possible.

I always thought the next step for DLSS would be essentially using an AI to make up the rest of the photoreal detail that wasn't there to begin with. It could even allow for a brand new lineup of remasters.

 

[ChiefDada]

This is crazy tbh. I never realized just how blurry TLOU2 was in the 1440p mode.

The fact that this kind of stuff is showing up on youtube is just crazy. 1440p in other games doesnt look this blurry. But 4k and i guess 4k PSSR quality reconstruction seems to have brought back that texture detail.

I've always noticed, and it's because ND never used any reconstruction techniques in their games. Similar situation to FF7 Rebirth.

Not impressed.

“Oooh look this almost 5 year old PS4 game is slightly crisper when you literally zoom in 3x! $700 please ”

Lame

Lol it's just a data point, and there's nothing slight about going from 1440p to 4k output on a large 4k display.

 

[SlimySnake]

Massive did well. What a beautiful game.

Sucks that they botched the gameplay and story. We will never get to see Outlaws 2 with next gen tech.

 

[RaduN]

I always thought the next step for DLSS would be essentially using an AI to make up the rest of the photoreal detail that wasn't there to begin with. It could even allow for a brand new lineup of remasters.

Once AI matures enough, it will be nothing short of a revolution. Every single game ever made could be visually enhanced, old 2D games, anything. I can only imagine Snes Donkey Kong Country or original SF2. I mean, we are "that" close.

 

[arkhamguy123]

I've always noticed, and it's because ND never used any reconstruction techniques in their games. Similar situation to FF7 Rebirth.



Lol it's just a data point, and there's nothing slight about going from 1440p to 4k output on a large 4k display.

Agree to disagree

 

[Balducci30]

One day baby, one day.
Crazy Ken was a bit ahead of time

Oh this is fucking sick

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

The truth is very simple and I think anyone that looked at these consoles specs already knew it from the beginning. These consoles are not massive leaps, it's a miracle as is that Epic is getting infinite light sources to work on 10.3 TFLOPS, because it's legitimately not that big of a leap. Nintendo of all manufacturers will leapfrog this by almost a factor of 2x legitimately, which is literally unseen in this industry to date. You've said it yourself many times, target 4k, double the framerate and that's literally it... Going 4k takes four times more power, and doubling the frames brings that up to five times. With 5.5 times TFLOPs, what the hell were we expecting to begin with?

We don’t NEED to be going native 4k to begin with, 1440p upscaled to 4K is fine just like TLOU2. 30 fps is fine for cinematic type games most of the time but 60 fps is better sometimes. Base model PS4 was 1.84 TFLOPS in a different architecture, meaning PS5s ~10TFLOPS equals ~15TFLOPS? in PS4 architecture. The problem is lack upscaling tech usage and old engines. The Matrix Awakens and Hellblade 2 are PLAYABLE on current gen hardware meaning games can look CGI like today. The problem is that devs are using old ass engines rooted in old rendering methods. Lack of geometry and GI in PS4 era games is the number one issue. Today infinite geometry and RTGI is NEEDED for that next gen leap. With upscaling technology, enough resources should be free to allow that leap. If TLOU 2 can be done on PS4 with 1.84 TFLOPS then something way better looking can be done on PS5 with 10TFLOPS. Hellblade 2 the current graphics benchmark, runs on a Series S, keep that in mind.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Even if the PS7 in theory could push graphics that are close to real life, unless AI gets to a level where it can actually make the game in its entirety, it would take 20 years and 1000 developers to make a world look like that.

Why? How long did The Matrix Awakens Demo take to make?

 

[SlimySnake]

Someone did a test on the new UE5 Megalights feature.

Added a bunch of lights to their sample environment. The traditional lights had a 3.8 ms frametime cost. Turning on megalights brought that down to just 1.2 ms. That might not seem like a lot in a 33 ms buffer, but its free performance nonetheless that will allow devs to pack in each area with a lot more lights without worrying too much about tanking performance.



Lighting is way better with mega lights turned on as well. And shadows are much softer and more realistic. So win win. Amazing innovation by Epic once again.

 

[pasterpl]

Its funny how this post was made nearly 2.5 years ago and so many things from this list are still true. the only thing thats changed is that sony studios are no longer the kings of graphics and other third parties have taken over.



there are still remasters and remakes being announced. open world games still follow the same gta3 mission structure. no destruction or physics. zelda totk still has the best physics. aaa games are taking forever to make and are reusing assets. i honestly dont understand how spiderman 2 and ghosts 2 can look so similar after 5 years of dev time. especially since spiderman 2 is reusing the same city and ghosts is reusing the same generic japanese wilderness.

i am playing astro bot right now. its such a joyful game. i am feeling things i didnt know i could feel. a huge jump from the disastrous star wars outlaws which literally broke me. but despite the fancy physics and the feels, i cant help but feel that its the same exact mario game ive been playing since the 90s. i liked mario 3d worlds and was meh on mario odyssey, but honestly, i think even nintendo hasnt innovated in the platfomer genre since mario 64.

• Every AAA game looks the same.
• AAA Games take 5-7 years to make.
• Everything is a fucking secret.
• Gaming culture is an embarrassment.
• There hasn't been any new game mechanics/formulas introduced in AAA gaming since the PS360 era.
• The PS360 era was the last time game design evolved. Its been the exact same since then with better graphics.
• Why are 99% of Open World games still following the basic GTA 3 mission structure and design formula?
• What happened to destructible environments and physics?
• Why the FUCK does BOTW have some of the best physics in gaming? On that weak ass console?
• Speaking of graphics, only a few studios actually make great looking games now. 80% of them are under Sony control.
• Why does every Japanese character-action game look like some anime ass shit with putrid visuals?
• Why does FROM have amazing art design and shit ass tech? Why can only select few companies achieve both?
• Why is nothing as cool as the last 40 minutes of Top Gun: Maverick
• Why do so many indie games use the same artstyle?
• Why are there so many remakes?
• Why are there so many remasters?
• What the fuck is the difference between the two anyhow? Who really cares? DO you actually care?

I remember when this was a big thing(Destructible environments), same with being able to shoot off a knee, arm etc in Soldier Of Fortune and cars destructions like in Burnout games. Now it seems everyone focuses on graphics if they have got a budget and we are ending up with most games looking almost same, same with gameplay design. This generation is driven by remakes, remasters etc. because developers and publishers are afraid that 300M-400M USD project will fail, that’s why we are not seeing to many new ideas, innovation - everyone is playing it safe.

 

[RodriGames40]

We don’t NEED to be going native 4k to begin with, 1440p upscaled to 4K is fine just like TLOU2. 30 fps is fine for cinematic type games most of the time but 60 fps is better sometimes. Base model PS4 was 1.84 TFLOPS in a different architecture, meaning PS5s ~10TFLOPS equals ~15TFLOPS? in PS4 architecture. The problem is lack upscaling tech usage and old engines. The Matrix Awakens and Hellblade 2 are PLAYABLE on current gen hardware meaning games can look CGI like today. The problem is that devs are using old ass engines rooted in old rendering methods. Lack of geometry and GI in PS4 era games is the number one issue. Today infinite geometry and RTGI is NEEDED for that next gen leap. With upscaling technology, enough resources should be free to allow that leap. If TLOU 2 can be done on PS4 with 1.84 TFLOPS then something way better looking can be done on PS5 with 10TFLOPS. Hellblade 2 the current graphics benchmark, runs on a Series S, keep that in mind.

It's telling how every factor has simply came crashing down regarding expectations this gen.
- The lack of a significant generational leap in order for devs to be able to bruteforce a higher res, double framerate and then upgrade visuals.
- The lack of a decent upscaler and RT intersection performance in order to allow for both an image with just as much pixels as last gen to hold up against 4K scrutiny and bruteforce traditional approaches to RT.
- The absolute lack of commitment from devs to update their engines and technology.

What an unfortunate series of impediments.

 

[SlimySnake]

Spiderman 2 might have its issues on the ground but man, when you are flying, it looks amazing. The RT reflections, the stunning lighting in some conditions, and probably the best damn draw distance ever.

trust me when i say that this gif does not do it justice because ps5 capture is destroying most of the detail on the buildings. i can make out every single window of every building in the distance. And my gif builder is adding all kinds of shimmering artifacts that i can only remove if i create a 4k 100 mb gif.

I see some terrible screenshots being posted in the silent hill threads even asset quality and lighting is better than 99% of the games out there. these games need better capture formats.

 

[SlimySnake]

It's telling how every factor has simply came crashing down regarding expectations this gen.
- The lack of a significant generational leap in order for devs to be able to bruteforce a higher res, double framerate and then upgrade visuals.
- The lack of a decent upscaler and RT intersection performance in order to allow for both an image with just as much pixels as last gen to hold up against 4K scrutiny and bruteforce traditional approaches to RT.
- The absolute lack of commitment from devs to update their engines and technology.

What an unfortunate series of impediments.

whats frustrating is that all last gen we heard how underpowered the consoles were. how much they wanted RT features, ssds and cpus, and then this gen arrived and they used the ssds just for loading, cpus just to do 60 fps and skipped rt altogether. kept making the same last gen trash even if the publishers gave them the opportunity to make a next gen game.

I do think devs that tried to get RT effects in their games should get some credit. The RT effects in Star Wars Jedi Survivor, Callisto, Dragons Dogma 2 and Spiderman/Ratchet really helped enhance the overall look of those games.

I also want to praise devs like Bethesda, Turn10, and Massive who implemented their own software dynamic GI solutions. Massive went above and beyond leveraging the RT cores if available, but I thought Starfield and Forza had some stunning lighting that was a step above other games. Especially when comparing them directly to GT7 and GOW/Horizon.

That's not to say i want RT or Dynamic GI in every game. It's not a requirement but if i dont see assets, textures or materials get an upgrade then i look for lighting and if thats also weak then i call bullshit. If every game looked like Demon Souls or Alan Wake 2, both featuring no RT then id be happy without RT.

We had a good year last year and we seem to be ending this year strong even with all those delays. Black Myth, Hellblade 2, and Silent hill 2 leading the charge with Star Wars Outlaws and Space Marine right behind them. I just wish sony and MS were more consistent this year. I have no idea why ff7 rebirth, rise of ronin and stellar blade were allowed to ship looking like that given they were exclusives funding directly by sony. Same goes for indiana jones which looks like a ps3 game at times. get these guys on UE5. indiana jones is a cinematic game and should not look that dated.

 

[kevboard]

We don’t NEED to be going native 4k to begin with, 1440p upscaled to 4K is fine just like TLOU2. 30 fps is fine for cinematic type games most of the time but 60 fps is better sometimes.

first of all, you can just say bad games. cinematic is such a long word

secondly, you can't get good image quality at 30fps in many modern engines.
many modern engines, especially Unreal Engine, are entirely designed around temporal reconstruction. this includes TAA by the way. because TAA as used in Unreal Engine is also temporal image reconstruction, as most effects and even hair is designed with temporal reconstruction in mind. if you look at hair, shadows or ambient occlusion in UE5 without TAA, it's just a flickery and dithered mess.

the word "temporal" here is very important. these engines need information from previous frames. if you run a game at 30fps there is twice as much of a jump between frames than running at 60fps. the gap that the temporal reconstruction has to bridge to antialias the image, reconstruct the various effects and image elements (AO, GI, SSR, Hair, Foliage, thin details like cables and power lines etc.) and then build a cohesive looking frame has to be as small as possible for a good final image

the lower the framerate the more obvious edge flicker will be, the more obvious dithering artifacts will be, and the more egregious ghosting there will be.

the only moments a 30fps game can look good in unreal engine, and engines that are completely reliant on temporal data like Remedy's Northlite engine for example, is if you barely move the character or camera.

this doesn't even take into account the issue with motion resolution on modern screens.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

first of all, you can just say bad games. cinematic is such a long word

secondly, you can't get good image quality at 30fps in many modern engines.
many modern engines, especially Unreal Engine, are entirely designed around temporal reconstruction. this includes TAA by the way. because TAA as used in Unreal Engine is also temporal image reconstruction, as most effects and even hair is designed with temporal reconstruction in mind. if you look at hair, shadows or ambient occlusion in UE5 without TAA, it's just a flickery and dithered mess.

the word "temporal" here is very important. these engines need information from previous frames. if you run a game at 30fps there is twice as much of a jump between frames than running at 60fps. the gap that the temporal reconstruction has to bridge to antialias the image, reconstruct the various effects and image elements (AO, GI, SSR, Hair, Foliage, thin details like cables and power lines etc.) and then build a cohesive looking frame has to be as small as possible for a good final image

the lower the framerate the more obvious edge flicker will be, the more obvious dithering artifacts will be, and the more egregious ghosting there will be.

the only moments a 30fps game can look good in unreal engine, and engines that are completely reliant on temporal data like Remedy's Northlite engine for example, is if you barely move the character or camera.

this doesn't even take into account the issue with motion resolution on modern screens.

Hellblade 2 on consoles is 30fps..

 

[CGNoire]

Someone did a test on the new UE5 Megalights feature.

Added a bunch of lights to their sample environment. The traditional lights had a 3.8 ms frametime cost. Turning on megalights brought that down to just 1.2 ms. That might not seem like a lot in a 33 ms buffer, but its free performance nonetheless that will allow devs to pack in each area with a lot more lights without worrying too much about tanking performance.



Lighting is way better with mega lights turned on as well. And shadows are much softer and more realistic. So win win. Amazing innovation by Epic once again.

Actualy he says the opposite. That with megalights turned on there seems to be "less shadow detail" revealing a tradeoff.

 

[Lethal01]

Looks nice, Like RTX DI without needing to use that specific fork.
for reference

 

[SlimySnake]

Actualy he says the opposite. That with megalights turned on there seems to be "less shadow detail" revealing a tradeoff.

those just might be the soft shadows Epic was promising with this feature. we've seen this in other RT games before where shadows lose that sharpness and detail because they are more accurate.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Spiderman 2 might have its issues on the ground but man, when you are flying, it looks amazing. The RT reflections, the stunning lighting in some conditions, and probably the best damn draw distance ever.

trust me when i say that this gif does not do it justice because ps5 capture is destroying most of the detail on the buildings. i can make out every single window of every building in the distance. And my gif builder is adding all kinds of shimmering artifacts that i can only remove if i create a 4k 100 mb gif.

I see some terrible screenshots being posted in the silent hill threads even asset quality and lighting is better than 99% of the games out there. these games need better capture formats.

If you had told me last gen that bluepoint and insomniac would be leading the graphical race in the PlayStation first parties I would not have believed you and yet here we are

 

[SlimySnake]

first of all, you can just say bad games. cinematic is such a long word

secondly, you can't get good image quality at 30fps in many modern engines.
many modern engines, especially Unreal Engine, are entirely designed around temporal reconstruction. this includes TAA by the way. because TAA as used in Unreal Engine is also temporal image reconstruction, as most effects and even hair is designed with temporal reconstruction in mind. if you look at hair, shadows or ambient occlusion in UE5 without TAA, it's just a flickery and dithered mess.

the word "temporal" here is very important. these engines need information from previous frames. if you run a game at 30fps there is twice as much of a jump between frames than running at 60fps. the gap that the temporal reconstruction has to bridge to antialias the image, reconstruct the various effects and image elements (AO, GI, SSR, Hair, Foliage, thin details like cables and power lines etc.) and then build a cohesive looking frame has to be as small as possible for a good final image

the lower the framerate the more obvious edge flicker will be, the more obvious dithering artifacts will be, and the more egregious ghosting there will be.

the only moments a 30fps game can look good in unreal engine, and engines that are completely reliant on temporal data like Remedy's Northlite engine for example, is if you barely move the character or camera.

this doesn't even take into account the issue with motion resolution on modern screens.

ive played Miles, Ratchet, HFW, FF16, Callisto, Spiderman 2, at 30 fps on consoles.

On PC, ive recently started playing games like Alan Wake 2, Hellblade 2, Star Wars Outlaws, and Wukong at 30 fps.

All different engines. there is no flicker. No dithering artifacts. Nothing. The 30 fps modes of all sony games are native 4k and have crisp clean image quality with no artifacts of breakups. other games use 1440p internal resolution to recontruct to 4k which can look even better.

the edge shimmering, reconstruction artifacts and other image breakups are literally only present in 60 fps modes that have to downgrade resolutions to 720-1080p creating havoc on the image as the reconstruction techniques fail to produce a clean image from such a low base resolution.

If people were playing these games in 30 fps modes, we would not be talking about poor IQ or shimmering or edge flicker because they almost always have pristine IQ due to their higher base resolution. Even in FSR2 games like Star Wars and Starfield which looked fine at 1440p internal resolutions causing shimmering and ghosting issues only when i went down to 1080p internal resolution.

 

[kevboard]

ive played Miles, Ratchet, HFW, FF16, Callisto, Spiderman 2, at 30 fps on consoles.

On PC, ive recently started playing games like Alan Wake 2, Hellblade 2, Star Wars Outlaws, and Wukong at 30 fps.

All different engines. there is no flicker. No dithering artifacts. Nothing. The 30 fps modes of all sony games are native 4k and have crisp clean image quality with no artifacts of breakups. other games use 1440p internal resolution to recontruct to 4k which can look even better.

the edge shimmering, reconstruction artifacts and other image breakups are literally only present in 60 fps modes that have to downgrade resolutions to 720-1080p creating havoc on the image as the reconstruction techniques fail to produce a clean image from such a low base resolution.

If people were playing these games in 30 fps modes, we would not be talking about poor IQ or shimmering or edge flicker because they almost always have pristine IQ due to their higher base resolution. Even in FSR2 games like Star Wars and Starfield which looked fine at 1440p internal resolutions causing shimmering and ghosting issues only when i went down to 1080p internal resolution.

well there are 2 issues here. low framerates and low base resolutions.

both don't work well with modern engines.
both is kinda the fault of the developers most of the time as well as the engine's.

and we shouldn't really have either low resolutions nor low framerates, but dogshit engines like UE5 and developers unwilling to modify UE5 to what their game needs (which was originally the idea behind UE4/5 but isn't being done), result in games that look barely any better than last gen games, while running at either lower resolutions than last gen or at the same resolutions and 30fps.

compare Jedi Survivor on current gen to Battlefront 2 on Xbox One X.

Battlefront 2 has excellent image quality, at 60fps, great lighting, great looking materials... it has all. and has all of it while massive 40 player battles are happening

now Jedi Survivor, which looks like someone vomited at your screen and wiped it off with a dirty hankerchief.
it completely breaks down in motion, even if you use TAA on PC without upsampling. and on console you have the choice between unstable 30fps with constant RT fizzle and 60fps with omnipresent edge shimmering.


so yeah. It's a terrible situation either way.
and the sad thing is that other engines started to copy Unreal Engine

 

[arkhamguy123]

Alright let’s calm down

 

[SlimySnake]

well there are 2 issues here. low framerates and low base resolutions.

both don't work well with modern engines.
both is kinda the fault of the developers most of the time as well as the engine's.

and we shouldn't really have either low resolutions nor low framerates, but dogshit engines like UE5 and developers unwilling to modify UE5 to what their game needs (which was originally the idea behind UE4/5 but isn't being done), result in games that look barely any better than last gen games, while running at either lower resolutions than last gen or at the same resolutions and 30fps.

compare Jedi Survivor on current gen to Battlefront 2 on Xbox One X.

Battlefront 2 has excellent image quality, at 60fps, great lighting, great looking materials... it has all. and has all of it while massive 40 player battles are happening

now Jedi Survivor, which looks like someone vomited at your screen and wiped it off with a dirty hankerchief.
it completely breaks down in motion, even if you use TAA on PC without upsampling. and on console you have the choice between unstable 30fps with constant RT fizzle and 60fps with omnipresent edge shimmering.


so yeah. It's a terrible situation either way.
and the sad thing is that other engines started to copy Unreal Engine

No there is only one issue which is low base resolutions. Framerate has nothing to do with IQ. It does NOT introduce artifacts, ghosting, shimmering or aliasing. you are talking nonsense.

If you are one of those people who think UE5 isnt a massive leap then you do you. i will enjoy hellblade 2, wukong and now silent hill 2 which are generational leaps over last gen games even on consoles at 30 fps.

I find it hilarious that you are comparing jedi survivor to battlefront 2 instead of jedi fallen order. the difference is massive.

 

[kevboard]

Alright let’s calm down

how can I calm down when there are people out there that play Ratchet & Clank at 30fps?
That's... criminal!

 

[arkhamguy123]

how can I calm down when there are people out there that play Ratchet & Clank at 30fps?
That's... criminal!

Criminally normal and fine

 

[kevboard]

No there is only one issue which is low base resolutions. Framerate has nothing to do with IQ. It does NOT introduce artifacts, ghosting, shimmering or aliasing. you are talking nonsense.

If you are one of those people who think UE5 isnt a massive leap then you do you. i will enjoy hellblade 2, wukong and now silent hill 2 which are generational leaps over last gen games even on consoles at 30 fps.

I find it hilarious that you are comparing jedi survivor to battlefront 2 instead of jedi fallen order. the difference is massive.

why should I compare 2 games running on the same shitty engine?

UE4 (and now UE5) is the issue here. and sadly other engines like Northlight go down the same route with unstable effects that need constant denoising through TAA.

but I love jow your last gif therr shows Fallen Order having way better looking water reactions lol

 

[arkhamguy123]

No there is only one issue which is low base resolutions. Framerate has nothing to do with IQ. It does NOT introduce artifacts, ghosting, shimmering or aliasing. you are talking nonsense.

If you are one of those people who think UE5 isnt a massive leap then you do you. i will enjoy hellblade 2, wukong and now silent hill 2 which are generational leaps over last gen games even on consoles at 30 fps.

I find it hilarious that you are comparing jedi survivor to battlefront 2 instead of jedi fallen order. the difference is massive.

Oh you just reminded me! Is it legit? Are the graphics next gen? Was thinking about getting it and completely forgot it comes out in a few days.

Gameplay on YouTube has me a little unimpressed but I know YT on my phone will never do a game Justice

 

[Buggy Loop]

One day baby, one day.
Crazy Ken was a bit ahead of time

This is the exact future I've mentioned a couple of times in my AI posts on this forum.

At one point, games will be rough looking as fuck just to nail the gameplay mechanics (initially, even that will probably be AI'd eventually), and then the coating over it will be AI. Want to change style? Replace your character for a star? Your face scan? You'll be able to. Cell shaded, realistic, painting, etc. AI is so good at equivalent to real-life lighting too because it knows how its supposed to look, so it bypasses the hard compute requirements you would need to path trace it to real life quality.

I'm secretly hoping that when Microsoft said that there was a "game changer" moment for future generation, is that they are in collaboration with openAI and a chip manufacturer to do this.

 

[SlimySnake]

If you had told me last gen that bluepoint and insomniac would be leading the graphical race in the PlayStation first parties I would not have believed you and yet here we are

It's surprising but they were always in the top tier. maybe top 3 among all sony studio behind only GG and ND. SSM fell off hard after GOW3.

they are also located in LA right next to SSM, ND, Infinity ward and all those activision blizzard and EA studios in hollywood. the have access to the same talent and ratchet remake and spiderman 1 were right up there in the Ps4 era.

What's really surprising is that fucking Bloober with Silent Hill 2 has topped several sony studios. it looks absolutely stunning. the asset quality is incredible. the volumetric fog is almost CG quality. the lighting is beautiful. maybe even better than alan wake 2. Amazing achievement by a D tier studio.

 

[ChiefDada]

Spiderman 2 might have its issues on the ground but man, when you are flying, it looks amazing. The RT reflections, the stunning lighting in some conditions, and probably the best damn draw distance ever.

trust me when i say that this gif does not do it justice because ps5 capture is destroying most of the detail on the buildings. i can make out every single window of every building in the distance. And my gif builder is adding all kinds of shimmering artifacts that i can only remove if i create a 4k 100 mb gif.

I see some terrible screenshots being posted in the silent hill threads even asset quality and lighting is better than 99% of the games out there. these games need better capture formats.

 

[SlimySnake]

Oh you just reminded me! Is it legit? Are the graphics next gen? Was thinking about getting it and completely forgot it comes out in a few days.

Gameplay on YouTube has me a little unimpressed but I know YT on my phone will never do a game Justice

Watch DF. They always show the game in its best light. Much more so than trailers sometimes. Looks amazing. The character models, hair, materials, lumen lighting and reflections. It's beautiful. Just play in the 30 fps mode. it goes up to 1512p and gets reconstructed to 4k.

 

[CGNoire]

those just might be the soft shadows Epic was promising with this feature. we've seen this in other RT games before where shadows lose that sharpness and detail because they are more accurate.

Yeah its definitly hard to tell with all these low res YT vids but theres bound to be a tradeoff or they wouldnt of branded it seperatly like they did.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah its definitly hard to tell with all these low res YT vids but theres bound to be a tradeoff or they wouldnt of branded it seperatly like they did.

oh there are trade offs, its just not the shadows. Epic specifically said that the shadows will get better.

that said, someone in the main thread posted a tweet of some dev pointing out some ghosting artifacts as a result of mega lights being turned on.

 

[arkhamguy123]

It's surprising but they were always in the top tier. maybe top 3 among all sony studio behind only GG and ND. SSM fell off hard after GOW3.

they are also located in LA right next to SSM, ND, Infinity ward and all those activision blizzard and EA studios in hollywood. the have access to the same talent and ratchet remake and spiderman 1 were right up there in the Ps4 era.

What's really surprising is that fucking Bloober with Silent Hill 2 has topped several sony studios. it looks absolutely stunning. the asset quality is incredible. the volumetric fog is almost CG quality. the lighting is beautiful. maybe even better than alan wake 2. Amazing achievement by a D tier studio.

Ehhhh Spider-Man 1 was respectable (30fps target baby) but ratchet remake and shadow of colossus remake while both beautiful games didn’t exactly make me think they’d be top of the pack in the PS5 gen

Second son, shadow fall, last of us 2. Other studios were quite comfortably ahead. Now sucker punch is phoning it in, guerilla shipped a cross Gen game and is now toiling away on a gta online tier horizon GaaS game, and ND has been MIA for about 100 years

 

[Darsxx82]

This is the exact future I've mentioned a couple of times in my AI posts on this forum.

At one point, games will be rough looking as fuck just to nail the gameplay mechanics (initially, even that will probably be AI'd eventually), and then the coating over it will be AI. Want to change style? Replace your character for a star? Your face scan? You'll be able to. Cell shaded, realistic, painting, etc. AI is so good at equivalent to real-life lighting too because it knows how its supposed to look, so it bypasses the hard compute requirements you would need to path trace it to real life quality.

I'm secretly hoping that when Microsoft said that there was a "game changer" moment for future generation, is that they are in collaboration with openAI and a chip manufacturer to do this.

Which would also come with the most important thing... less development time and costs.

The amount of hours of work, staff and testing to recreate that level of assets would be impossible in 4-5 years of development.

As you say, this is where I hope AI will help in video games in the future.

 

[kevboard]

Watch DF. They always show the game in its best light. Much more so than trailers sometimes. Looks amazing. The character models, hair, materials, lumen lighting and reflections. It's beautiful. Just play in the 30 fps mode. it goes up to 1512p and gets reconstructed to 4k.

and once again wasting GPU resources on nonsense like Lumen GI.
this game has almost entirely static lighting. why the actual fuck is the GI not baked? or maybe voxel based GI? the answer to that question is: slapping Lumen onto your game is easier.
with a proper engine, and proper performance oriented GI, this game could probably run at 1440p 60fps or even higher, while barely looking any different.


this is exactly what I'm talking about. wasting GPU render time on entirely nonsensical bullshit, resulting in the choice between low framerate or low resolution. when the game could look the same while running at high res and high fps at the same time