I mean....it is. Its prerendered UE5 not realtime.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
arkhamguy123
Member
Replaying TLOU 2 now on ps4 not even ps5.
Naughty Dogs ps5 only game will go toe to toe with gta 6. They’re beasts. Also this game looks better than most next gen only titles
Naughty Dogs ps5 only game will go toe to toe with gta 6. They’re beasts. Also this game looks better than most next gen only titles
Bojji
Member
Lumen is that generational difference we were looking for. Only things that I don't like about it are artifacts. When I first played Fort Solis I thought my GPU was broken, dancing "christmas lights" everywhere...
Most games have limited issue with this but there are some offenders.
JCreasy
Member
Epic needs to release a single player action adventure. I want to see peak UE5, every bell and whistle turned on. And of course it would help the platform/tool development if they ate their own dog food. No, Fortnite doesn’t count. It doesn’t push fidelity the way WE need it to.
Shadow Complex Remake, Samaritan, new IP, I don’t care. They should totally do it.
If Sony was smart, they’d commission it, a la FromSoftware: Bloodborne.
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Lethal01
Member
Oh gotcha.
mrMUR_96
Member
Was this really done in UE? is there more info on this somewhere?
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Msamy
Member
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RodriGames40
Member
Hardware Lumen is now default on UE5.5 folks.
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JCreasy
Member
angrod14
Member
JCreasy
Member
Bilawal Sidhu on LinkedIn: #ai #cgi #vfx | 121 comments
Runway’s new video-to-video AI is amazing for reskinning classic video game cut scenes. Here’s N64 Golden Eye remastered. Wish we could pass in an object id… | 121 comments on LinkedIn
www.linkedin.com
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This random youtuber is talking about how Ghost of Yotei was rebooted recently, and apparently its a smaller game made by the same team that made Legends Multiplayer and DLC while most of the original sucker punch staff is gone. Also, it could be a PS4 cross gen game hence the smaller visual leap.
Could be all bullshit. But the lack of a next gen leap could point to this. The studio that made infamous Second and GoT is basically there in name only. The real talent is gone.
Honestly, I've been thinking about how games have regressed lately especially in the gameplay department. Starfield, FF16, Forspoken, Suicide Squad, Avatar, Star Wars Outlaws, Dragons Dogma 2, FF7 Rebirth, Alan Wake 2, so many games that play worse than their predecessors. One good thing about the industry i liked was that we were always moving forward. But we stagnated late last gen and have simply regressed this gen. This youtuber is saying that its due to mostly female dev teams who are not as qualified because the more experienced developers either leave or are hired as part time contractors.
I dont like to blame women and minorities for everything, but the lack of talent has been apparent to me for a long time now. The way the games are shipping nowadays more broken than ever before, lack of large next gen graphics leaps, and with gameplay thats reminiscent of early ps3 era games, i wouldnt be surprised if what this guy is saying is true.
Could be all bullshit. But the lack of a next gen leap could point to this. The studio that made infamous Second and GoT is basically there in name only. The real talent is gone.
Honestly, I've been thinking about how games have regressed lately especially in the gameplay department. Starfield, FF16, Forspoken, Suicide Squad, Avatar, Star Wars Outlaws, Dragons Dogma 2, FF7 Rebirth, Alan Wake 2, so many games that play worse than their predecessors. One good thing about the industry i liked was that we were always moving forward. But we stagnated late last gen and have simply regressed this gen. This youtuber is saying that its due to mostly female dev teams who are not as qualified because the more experienced developers either leave or are hired as part time contractors.
I dont like to blame women and minorities for everything, but the lack of talent has been apparent to me for a long time now. The way the games are shipping nowadays more broken than ever before, lack of large next gen graphics leaps, and with gameplay thats reminiscent of early ps3 era games, i wouldnt be surprised if what this guy is saying is true.
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Bojji
Member
Let's hope it's not true. Fuck...
JCreasy
Member
Bro are you serious with this? I never expected this from you. SMDH.
Random YouTuber does not sound qualified to speak on these matters. And that angle is beyond asinine.
I've been around for a while. I don't think anyone here knows who I am and I prefer to keep that way. I don't like to namedrop around here. I think it's dumb, clout chasing. I enjoy my anonymity. I like mixing it up and talking about graphics. But this . . .
Y'all don't have to believe me. That's fine.
I used to work in the industry. I have lots of friends that still work in the industry. I text them every PlayStation Showcase and just jaw about the reveals.
There have been non-white folks and female devs working in the industry for decades now. I personally know them. I'm not bullshitting. Yeah, that might not mean shit to y'all. What it DOES mean is that I'M more qualified to talk about this than "Random YouTuber." Never at any point has the quality of their projects, non-white and female devs, been called into question until now. These stupid fucking culture wars. The war on woke. That garbage. If this gets me kicked or banned, fine.
You can have a fruitful conversation about games without rabid racism or misogyny. Yeah, I know it's Gaf. But seriously. How the hell does this help us enjoy games? This toxic bullshit.
I came back to Gaf because I missed the talking about graphics. I mainly stick to this thread because it doesn't dip into culture war bullshit. But here we are. Fucking disappointing.
Do better.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What I meant by that line is that I dont want to blame women and minorities for the state of the industry. It's just what it is. They are always an easy target for these youtubers. But the industry has been in a free fall for years. The gameplay improvements especially have taken a massive step back. Women are just an easy target to pin the blame on. And thats whats happening here.
I remember when Halo infinite came out, people were posting pics of 50 women at 343i to say they were the root cause of all its issues. I pointed out that 343i had at the time 750 devs according to wikipedia. So what are 50 women going to do really. It's clear that it was an institutional problem, but women are just easier to blame by the anti-woke mob.
It's everyone. I listed several Japanese games in my post. Forspoken, FF16, FF7, FF7 Rbeirth, Dragons Dogma 2. Japanese developers are still somewhat isolated from the DEI practices so you cant exactly blame women and minorities for those failures. but they are failures none the less.
I honestly cant make sense of the lack of graphics upgrades we've seen this gen. Especially from Sony studios. I cant make sense of how bad outlaws, FF16 and alan wake are designed. Like I said, the story could all be bullshit and I dont like to blame women for all the issues this industry is facing, but the problem could just be a lack of talent. You were in the industry so you've probably seen people in their 30s get married and leave the industry thats built on crunch. Who is to say that their replacements were simply not as talented? It's possible that these replacement were women and why they are getting the blame when its just the fact that rookies are now leading the charge at these studios.
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Speechless, and not in a good way.
This trend of hating women and minorities, agressively pushed by the right wing media in recent times, makes me sick to the stomach. Gaf should know better.
AW_CL
Member
Come on man, you are better than that.
ENDYMIONtv is a self-promoting grifter who makes stuff up. He's a fake, a fraud, a con man. Don't fall tor this nonsense.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Poor phrasing on my part. I dont hate either, nor am i right wing.
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Msamy
Member
I am with you about the sony but that youtuber say some bullshit about suckerpunch, and I just check LinkedIn profiles for some peoples their they have many veterans including both from original team and new high experienced peoples from other big studios, you can check this here
Sucker Punch Productions | LinkedIn
Sucker Punch Productions | 36,244 followers on LinkedIn. Sucker Punch Productions was born in 1997 with a mission to make great games, and we’ve spent every year since doing just that. We produced three award-winning PlayStation 2 games starring the wily raccoon thief Sly Cooper, all of which...
www.linkedin.com
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Lethal01
Member
Dragons Dogma 2 and those final fantasy games are definitely better than their predecessors
Can we not go from "lazy devs" to "lazy women and blacks" just cause games didn't click with us.
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Balducci30
Member
I don’t think he meant he blames them, I think it’s more the fact that a lot of people on this site tend to blame the stagnation in the industry on DEI policies - but the reality is that we’ve just reached a point in the industry in general
Balducci30
Member
This is cool, but I gotta say the one thing I didn’t love in the new tech demo with the lights was echos animation. Especially when she went up stairs
RodriGames40
Member
The truth is very simple and I think anyone that looked at these consoles specs already knew it from the beginning. These consoles are not massive leaps, it's a miracle as is that Epic is getting infinite light sources to work on 10.3 TFLOPS, because it's legitimately not that big of a leap. Nintendo of all manufacturers will leapfrog this by almost a factor of 2x legitimately, which is literally unseen in this industry to date. You've said it yourself many times, target 4k, double the framerate and that's literally it... Going 4k takes four times more power, and doubling the frames brings that up to five times. With 5.5 times TFLOPs, what the hell were we expecting to begin with?
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I have been going on about LACK OF TALENT in this industry for years now.
Theres simply not enough talent in this industry. Everyone wants to be in Hollywood. Gaming culture and stereotypes have killed the desire to be a Video Game Developer
It is 100% the reason for lack of true next gen leap.
Noob/young developers in charge. People who grew up with Fortnite as their childhood games are making games now. They dont give a shit about graphics.
Theres simply not enough talent in this industry. Everyone wants to be in Hollywood. Gaming culture and stereotypes have killed the desire to be a Video Game Developer
It is 100% the reason for lack of true next gen leap.
Noob/young developers in charge. People who grew up with Fortnite as their childhood games are making games now. They dont give a shit about graphics.
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Balducci30
Member
Honestly I’m starting to think more and more they should’ve released a new gen of consoles in like 2023, the raytracing and other shit was just way too far behind pc in 2020, amd needed a minute
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
It wouldnt fix anything. The issue is lack of talent and ambition. That plus the framerate warriors have taken over and demand 60fps in every game, which automatically means uglier games.
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RodriGames40
Member
Honestly, looking at what AMD offered with RDNA3 and 3.5... It wouldn't have made much of a difference. These GPUs are just too weak to give us 4K and double the framerate. We should have formally stayed at 1440p and work from there, the fact these devs have already saw the need to drop back to 900p/1080p for quality modes says it all.
Balducci30
Member
Oh I am behind that 100%, chasing 4k and 60fps on a console is possibly the dumbest move the industry made this generation. You want that get a pc imo
FalconPunch
Member
Lets call a spade a spade. The demographics of the average development team has shifted drastically in the last decade alone. There's an evident drop in the level of talent as old heads have retired. The quality of games now is even worse than before despite having better tools, larger teams, access to more capital and significantly longer dev times. I don't know what the cause of these issues are and I'll certainly not make an argument for causation. I will however make an argument for correlation and I say that as a minority.
There's have been drastic culture, demographic and leadership changes in studios. We can see the result outcome of those changes. We aren't inside the industry so we cannot speak about the cause for these outcomes but, you live and die by your results. The results as of late have been mostly trash. If not for astrobot, this would have been the first year in my life that I've failed to finish a game since I started gaming.
It's really that bad and the sooner people stop trying to hand wave it away, the better it is for everyone. We're seeing massive bombs. Rocksteady, Firesprite, Ubisoft, etc. The list goes on. Then you look at who's succeeding..... Helldivers, Space Marine 2, Stellar Blade, Astro Bot, Black Myth Wukong...... Games that either fit into "dude bro" or steer clear of most culture narratives. There's a silent majority voting with their wallets and if the gaming industry doesn't take note, a lot of people will lose their jobs.
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RodriGames40
Member
In the end of the day devs are already course correcting with those goals, including Sony. Although UE5 is getting more optimized, you bet all the upcoming games in the engine are internally 1080p resolution at best, and the 60 fps modes in the existing releases are nowhere stable anymore. The seams are busting, Wukong already felt like generating the another half of the frames to have a "performance mode".
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Lethal01
Member
Hell divers is pretty deep in the culture narratives.
that aside this year with Tekken 8, FF7, Gran Blue, unicorn overlord, dragons dogma 2, FF7 and Zelda gaming seems as good as ever.
The western side only seems as bad as its been in the last decade but graphically they are still doing great.
Tons of fantastic indies this year though.
FalconPunch
Member
Really, couldnt tell. I played the game for 2 weeks, never played it again because I couldn't see the point of playing the game.
My sentiment lies mainly with western developers. I'd also argue that eastern devs haven't seen a huge demographic or culture shift when compared to western studios. I could be wrong, who knows...
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Lethal01
Member
Good
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
they are not massive leaps but they are powerful enough for 1440p 30 fps games. I dont know why they had to go native 4k this gen. thats a 4x leap in resolution when last gen they took a 2x going from 720p to 1080p. Xbox settled for 900p so a 1.5x leap.
But lets face it, only cross gen games and sony developers did that. Ghosts might also be native 4k so yes, maybe thats the reason that particular game doesnt have the next gen leap we were expecting from sony devs. That said, most games in the last 2 years have targeted 1440p and still havent delivered anything close to matrix awakens or that OG PS5 demo. Wukong, Hellblade 2, and to a lesser extent some other UE5 games but the vast majority of games target 1440p giving us a 1.75x res boost, but dont seem to be able to get us that next gen leap like UE5 games and demos do.
There is also a problem with simply reusing assets. Say what you will about starfield but they did not reuse any shaders. every material, every asset, every object just looked new and shiny. But AC shadows, ghost of tsushima, ff7 rebirth, dragons dogma 2, spiderman 2, are all using last gen materials and assets. I dont get that part. whats the point in using RTgi when your materials are still last gen? i LOVE the draw distance in spiderman 2 and the lighting in many different lighting conditions, but the assets are such a minor upgrade that it feels lazy for a game 5 year in development with a $385 million budget.
ghosts feels like DLC because it looks very similar despite the visual upgrades that will become apparent closer to launch when we see more footage. i honestly dont care who is responsible. the fact of the matter is that even first party devs are reusing assets and refusing to use the tech cerny put in there for them.
RodriGames40
Member
Well, thing is FSR and upscalers also have a significant cost as it is. If we're getting 1440p with 30 frames and then upscaling that with FSR, the hit to performance is not quite native 4K but it is still very much there, this is why PS5 Pro is such a compelling product from a technical point of view to begin with.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Its funny how this post was made nearly 2.5 years ago and so many things from this list are still true. the only thing thats changed is that sony studios are no longer the kings of graphics and other third parties have taken over.
there are still remasters and remakes being announced. open world games still follow the same gta3 mission structure. no destruction or physics. zelda totk still has the best physics. aaa games are taking forever to make and are reusing assets. i honestly dont understand how spiderman 2 and ghosts 2 can look so similar after 5 years of dev time. especially since spiderman 2 is reusing the same city and ghosts is reusing the same generic japanese wilderness.
i am playing astro bot right now. its such a joyful game. i am feeling things i didnt know i could feel. a huge jump from the disastrous star wars outlaws which literally broke me. but despite the fancy physics and the feels, i cant help but feel that its the same exact mario game ive been playing since the 90s. i liked mario 3d worlds and was meh on mario odyssey, but honestly, i think even nintendo hasnt innovated in the platfomer genre since mario 64.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, ive calculated the hit of reconstruction when we were wondering just what the ps5 pro's reconstruction costs are going to be. its anywhere between 15-35% for dlss and fsr, a little lower for tsr, so that the hit of upgrading resolution is around 2x. they still have a lot to play with. the raw gpu power after taking into account the ipc gains from gcn 1 to rdna 2 are 1.5x. so even if the raw tflops are just 5.5x, the gpu is technically around 7.5x faster. plus, it has mesh shader and rt support built into the gpu. What it might lack in raw tflops it makes up for in features. plus a massive 7x leap in CPU. Not to mention the 100x leap in ssd.
They could do so much more but they are making these very basic ass games. And still taking 5-7 years to make them lmao.
RodriGames40
Member
It seems like from what I gathered yesterday from Megalights and many other software developments, I'm convinced it will be those that will make these consoles sing for what's left of the generation. These developers have unquestionably been behind the curve regardless of the consoles themselves being small fish, it doesn't make any sense that Unreal has just announced a solution to render essentially unlimited light sources and everyone else is still trying to make a couple per scene work at all... After all, even if they used new assets the engines still need to be upgraded as part of the process. Stagnating software developments have their chunk of the blame for the constant disappointment we continue to witness, once everyone either move to the Unreal Engine or keep sinking millions and millions in R&D to upgrade their engines, I'm confident not even a 40 TFLOP PS6 will blow us away. The software has to improve, especially at the face of Moore's law death.
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Msamy
Member
Wow, full rt package runing in gtx 1060, with their own engine (no UE5) , and team of 2 peoples, if big developers slightly focus on upgrading their game engines which is not that hard, they can do amazing things
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Balducci30
Member
I hope they are. But people are still majorly bitching about it as more titles don’t adhere to the cross gen rules, and we’re only halfway through the generation, fact is you don’t get games like LOU2 on PS4 or GTA5 on PS3 targeting 60/4k so
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Balducci30
Member
theres so many factors at play imo, the culture of the world is just way different. People aren’t looking for the same thing they were 10-20 years ago in gaming as it’s grown far more popular, innovation is harder to come by possibly because we’ve already innovated a lot in the years leading up to the current gen, games cost crazy amounts of money and take way too long - and there’s the culture wars and the pushback against crunch. And covid. It does kinda make sense we are where we are
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
It's a very real thing that todays gamers don't care about graphics the way previous generations did. No wonder Sony hasn't upgraded their engines ..comes down to a very simple business decision where they say, why bother when gamers are saying games look good enough. So the blame falls on both us and them. What I can't forgive Sony and MS for though is for not following through on their own promises. It's THEIR consoles they should be pushing the tech! Sony took it a step further though with Cerny's talks about the SSD and the importance of their relationship with Epic and UE5. Feels like it was a bunch of hot air and them putting out better looking versions of games on PC feels like a slap in the face.
The latest thing though that pisses me off about Sony is now they have an $800 console coming out but can't even bother to update all of their own library to take advantage of this thing? Some great care they must have for their own fans and customers ...and a great example they're setting towards 3rd party devs (don't think we'll ever get to play RDR2 at 60 fps, Cyberpunk with good ray tracing, or Arkham Knight in 4k).
I seem to be the only person here who expects to see effort for BC from Sony though ...console gamers have learned to accept being treated like crap-we're still having to pay $70/yr just to play online multiplayer ...why should anyone invest in the Pro and not PC again?
Diminishing returns.
I'd rather see much more effort put into animations and cinematography (not talking about cutscenes here, but mostly scene composition), than pixel perfect textures and 8k cloth fabric.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Pro has a boost mode that should update most games with unlocked framerates or dynamic resolutions. Games like Until Dawn and KZSF ran at 60 fps on the PS4 pro. This time around since most devs were already using dynamic resolution scaling that was dropping to 720p in performance modes and 1296p in fidelity modes, they wont need to go in and patch up the games to take advantage of the new 45% more GPU power.
Avatar for example runs between 1296p-1800p before using reconstruction to hit 4k. its typically 1440p but now it will be closer to 1800p or somewhere between 1440p and 1800p. Final Fantasy 16 can drop to 1080p down from 1440p so it should be around 1296p now in the most taxing of spots.
Games like ratchet, horizon and spiderman 2 are being patched but they all used dynamic resolution so they didnt need to be patched.
Agree with you on the first point though. I see this all the time in other threads. People downplaying Avatar and Black Myth because of their IQ issues. Which is weird because they are both normally 1440p reconstructed to 4k using FSR which is better than the checkerboard upscaling we had last gen on the PS4 Pro. My guess is that they are playing in performance modes which do drop to unacceptable resolutions where as sony games target really high 1440p resolutions for their performance modes. People just want their 60 fps with clean IQs instead of games that actually push fidelity.
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Balducci30
Member
Forget what i said about wilds, this is more nextgen than ue 5.5 pretty lights demo
Is this in game? What is this? Monster hunter?