Keihart
Member
this looks way more Cyberpunk thand Cyberpunk 2077.
I'll die on the hill, Cyberpunk 2077 aesthetics are one of the most vanilla and boring Cyberpunk aesthetics i've seen.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
this looks way more Cyberpunk thand Cyberpunk 2077.
I'll die on the hill, Cyberpunk 2077 aesthetics are one of the most vanilla and boring Cyberpunk aesthetics i've seen.
And this was done on a weak-ass 1.8TF console with Jaguar CPU. Now Imagine ND creating a game from scratch on the PS5 exclusively, people will be blown by it. I hope this gen we get real time graphics akin to the cutscenes in TLOU2 or am I asking for too much and being unrealistic?
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
you are correct but everyone is crying "booo hooo where is my pro console so we can chase pc".... I am so tired of this, get a fucking pc people
what? there are areas in 2077 that look almost exactly like that area shown. it's the same aesthetic except in this everyone is a robot. Bright neon, holograms, fog, every surface a bit wet all the time.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
PC is a bad value proposition compared to consoles though. And it's not anywhere near as pain free/couch friendly to use.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yes exactly and now everyone is screaming about pro and i feel some crowd doll never be happy until console is essentially a pc…
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dont let ChiefDada see this post. He thinks TLOU Part 1 is that next gen ND masterpiece lol
Dust-by-Monday
Member
Now we just need a native PS5 version of this game to fix the texture loading issues (some textures still take minutes to load even on PS5).
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Hawking Radiation
Member
Same shit AI. Just standing around doing much of fuck all.
Same shit animations.
Everything is wet.
Dust-by-Monday
Member
Looks averageSame shit AI. Just standing around doing much of fuck all.
Same shit animations.
Everything is wet.
nemiroff
Gold Member
I have 93 hours in the Steam version so I'm not trying to be negative on purpose but what exactly is exciting about it, the article literally says nothing?
WitchHunter
Banned
We need the computing power otherwise my cock will look like a japanese pixelated coitus movie in the obeyverse.
Bring in story, replace manchilds at gaming companies. There are 100+ years of books to select from and we get these horrid baby stories in games.
The fuck you need more fine detail when storytelling is at the level of a bloated frog.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The problem with adaptations is that they will fuck those up as well. Just look at games of thrones. Video game developers have a much harder task inserting constant combat scenarios to keep the game from being a 9 hour long cutscene.
That said, i agree. The industry is just in a really bad place at the moment. Haven’t had a good story in years. Tlou2 was ambitious but not particularly good. Ratchet and Horizon were forgettable. Gow was disappointing. And i have no idea wtf cd project was trying to do with cyberpunk. BioWare has been MIA for years and with ND having a rough couple of entries, it’s basically been forgettable trash for a while now.
They are talking about DS2 not the first one. The exciting part is Kojma saying the new tech will allow them to do much more, things that they weren't able to do in DS1 due to tech limitations. So it is exciting to see what he is alluding to.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Yeah also the shadows really fall apart outdoors
Dust-by-Monday
Member
It kinda makes no sense that they haven’t ported the newer game to PS5. I just hope it comes along with the Factions update
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
Shout out to this developer that got the pigmentation in the lips right. How do the hands look on the character models?
The hair is god awfully bad though.
The skin on King James really impressed me here, as well as the hair on Bronny.
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WitchHunter
Banned
The main problem with adaptations that people who make them do it for the money, they dont care about the material, they don't want it to succeed they just do it as a job. That's why most of them are like a bucket of shit.
At least cp77 showed that not only princess must be saved, everyone is honest and trustworthy, the good will prevail kinda regurgitated shit can be sold and told in a video game. And oh boy how far we are from properly crafted stories.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Hmmm these seem pretty close already?Praise for games like TLOU2, God of War and RDR2 were exactly what made me hungry for next gen since the lighting in them still stood out as jarringly fake outside of a few sections that the engine can handle well. Nvidia announced their raytracing accelerators at just the right time to give me hope that next gen will be better.
I"m super excited to see games on the level of the UE5 demos and such.
That said I think we are a world away from the examples you used in your OP which are offline rendered with 100x the time and power being used for every single frame..
this
This isn't something that takes a machine that's 10x more powerful than a PS4, we would be lucky to do it on one that's 10x strong than a 3090 I think you underestimate the vast gulf between the two but If you really think the visual difference between them isn't that big I can't disagree with something that subjective. But this may be a case where something you see as a slight improvement like getting hair like that could take atleast an extra PS5 worth of power.
Hopefully, in 4 years I get a game that lets me ecstatically admit I'm wrong, but I feel like it will be a repeat of TLOU2 where everyone says it looks like real life while I'm waiting for next gen.
Luckily there are always stylized games that don't have the issue of aiming for realism and failing, I'll take play BoTW2 in 8k on an emulator over TLOU2 anyday.
https://youtube.com/shorts/AaRgkoBZSIY?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/eN6vm9iEdNA?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/ZfpQ2DMkCng?feature=share
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Please don’t derail my thread…
Lethal01
Member
Closer than a ps2 game maybe, still generations too early.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Another great vid by Digital Foundry…
WitchHunter
Banned
Sorry it wasn't my intention to ruin your little game.
GymWolf
Gold Member
The third one is kinda hilarious because his face looks super realistic but the white fluffy part in his jacket close to his face looks fucking terrible, like a flat low res texture.
Skin tech has surpassed fabric tech
Deacon in days gone had the same problem, great face tech but the material inside his hoodie looks like low res vomit
Devs need to catch up with fabric tech or in the future it's gonna look like life-like faces unnaturaly inserted in videogame bodies, not sure if you get what i mean.
I think insomniac does the best fluffy texture in the business (i know the material is not the same)
Look at that fucking scarf.
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H . R . 2
Member
that's not the actor. This is:The third one is kinda hilarious because his face looks super realistic but the white fluffy part in his jacket close to his face looks fucking terrible, like a flat low res texture.
Skin tech has surpassed fabric tech
Deacon in days gone had the same problem, great face tech but the material inside his hoodie looks like low res vomit
Sam Witwer
his voice acting skills were superb
Lethal01
Member
The third one is kinda hilarious because his face looks super realistic but the white fluffy part in his jacket close to his face looks fucking terrible, like a flat low res texture.
Skin tech has surpassed fabric tech
Deacon in days gone had the same problem, great face tech but the material inside his hoodie looks like low res vomit
Devs need to catch up with fabric tech or in the future it's gonna look like life-like faces unnaturaly inserted in videogame bodies, not sure if you get what i mean.
I think insomniac does the best fluffy texture in the business (i know the material is not the same)
Look at that fucking scarf.
It's weird seeing all the praise for Calisto Protocol,
That' games face look super uncanny to me, not especially stand out.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I think the faces are the ONLY standout graphically and especially the protagonist.
I don't think that he look uncanny tbh.
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ABnormal
Member
It's curious, but in this gen the potential limit has switched from computation to memory mass storage. We now have plenty horsepower (at least, for those developers who know how to program well, or for those who will use the already well programmed UE5) and also no bottlenecks in data management from SSDs to RAM. In theory, we could have easily that level of detail, but those models and textures are really heavy in memory, so if you want an entire game with that level of detail, sure, the GPUs and the I/O system would be able to run it, but the total weight of the game would take hundreds of gigabytes. Fact is, that the dimension of mass storage in consoles didn't grow significantly from PS3 to PS5, unlike all the other aspect, so it's now the present limit, and developers have to be reasonable on the space taken in SSD.
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That was an awesome piece, I learned a lot from this post, appreciate it man. Though I do have a quick question and excuse my ignorance, but don't these new consoles have compression techniques which would help in compressing the games' files? or is this for something else?
ABnormal
Member
Yes, especially PS5 which has many dedicated processors for data management and decompression, allowing it to decompress on-the-fly even heavily compressed data to be served into RAM from SSD. But even with that great data compression, it should be ten times more compressed for the data to be able to be housed in an less-than-terabyte SSD, to be able to fit a game of that level of detail within 100 Gigabytes of compressed data on SSD. Even compression algorithms have not grown as much as the other aspects.
That's the reason of why, even if PS5 is able to stream huge amounts of data from SSD to RAM, allowing to have Z-brush-like models and 8k textures in the span of turning your visual from a side to the other, that level of detail would weight so much that in practice it will never be used in a real game (or it will be used only in special sporadic scenes that would need the maximum quality with constant variation of assets). Of course it's always a good thing having an hardware that allows you to develop any kind of scene without worrying about bottlenecks of any sorts, and with also a very fast loading, but concerning graphical quality, the overall game file dimension puts a limit. Just imagine a game like GoW, which weights, I don't remember, 80 Gigs? Now imagine using models and textures which weight four time in data. How big the game file would become? You could in theory have only a level, or even only a section, with monstrous quality assets, and "normal" ones for the rest of the game. But that's obviously not acceptable: all the game has to be more or less coherent in the level of detail.
From my point of view, I would be happy to face the hassle to clean half of the SSD to install a 500 giga game, but it may be unpopular for many, so there are compromises in development. Games like Call of Duty got to very big game file sizes, but that's an exception and was more like incompetence.
Even in the next generation things look like the same: I don't espect built-in SSDs bigger than 2 Terabytes, given the high cost of them, and compression can't develop as much as computational power and (potential) asset quality. So the overall game syze will be an even bigger limit, compared to what would be possible on next gen).
Other than compression, developers use many tricks to save space, such as using the same assets several times in a game (which has to be done moderately, otherwise repetition will be obvious and will disrupt the illusion - and efficient asset repetition management is an ability itself, for a developer) and keeping scarcely visible areas in low detail (all the infamous areas that are commonly used by console warriors to try to make some games appear less advanced than what they are).
An interesting thing about SSDs is that, contrary to HDDs, they have not "seek" time on the stored data, so they don't require for frequent met models to be written multiple times on mass storage. An example was made from Spiderman on PS5, where for example mailboxes are written hundreds of times on HHD, because mailboxes are everywhere in the game and for the streaming to be able to load them everywhere without lose time seeking the data on the disks of the HDD, they are written many and many times, occupying hundreds times their real memory footprint. SSDsm being without seek time, need only one time for the model data to be written, and when the scene will require it, its memory will be accessed instantaneously and sent to RAM, where the GPU will crunch it and send it on screen.
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Amazing post, thank you so much for the detailed explanation.
The bolded part, you and I are on the same boat. I do not mind going through the hassle of freeing up tons of space to download a 500G game if it looked phenomenal and so realistic but as you said, we are probably in the minority.
In this case, could cloud gaming be the future? Maybe the Stadia was a little too soon? Wouldn't cloud gaming solve most of this? But then again you need blazing fast internet speeds to be able to stream large data like that, and a big chunk of the world still run on 3G speeds.
ABnormal
Member
Well, if there is a wide and steady internet connection, cloud gaming can surely allow for a theoretical "unlimited" level of detail. Since the "hard drive" and the computing are in some faraway server, in proportion to the cost of rental you could have in theory games that run on very powerful hardware and that weight terabytes. It just requires that each rendered frame is sent to your TV through the net, like using netflix. In practice it's like you are playing with a joypad connected to a console far away through a very long cable, and the video data doesn't come from the console though HDMI to TV, but from the far server through internet to your TV. High speed internet and latency are the potential problems, so optical fiber would be preferrable, but that would cut off many potential gamers. It's still too soon.
Certain experiences, like VR, could be impossible on cloud, due to the very narrow window between input and visual output on the VR screens: it has to be within 20 milliseconds (input on the controller, signal travelling to the server, processing data with CPU and GPU, and then sending back the rendered frame to the headset screens, which also have some latency themselves. All that must be within 20 milliseconds, otherwise it starts to feel uncomfortable). Surely with a future connection based on entanglement those problems will be solved
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ABnormal
Member
UE5 is really impressive, it does so many things at the same time that no other engine can do. And its still in its infancy.
The wind in space and on Moon was funny, tough
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Watched it yesterday. Pretty impressive stuff from one dude.
Crazy that entire teams of 500-1000 developers cant seem to get there though.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
lol you realize it is a channel that china pumps out this crap ?!
It looks terrible, it's all fake and people eat this crap
Bloobs
Al Pachinko, Konami President
GymWolf
Gold Member
Superman, the last son of nanite.
I hear you. Yeah I reckon we are a good 10 years away at least from proper cloud gaming. The Stadia came too little too soon in my opinion. Once that gets fully unlocked the potential is quite high with it.Well, if there is a wide and steady internet connection, cloud gaming can surely allow for a theoretical "unlimited" level of detail. Since the "hard drive" and the computing are in some faraway server, in proportion to the cost of rental you could have in theory games that run on very powerful hardware and that weight terabytes. It just requires that each rendered frame is sent to your TV through the net, like using netflix. In practice it's like you are playing with a joypad connected to a console far away through a very long cable, and the video data doesn't come from the console though HDMI to TV, but from the far server through internet to your TV. High speed internet and latency are the potential problems, so optical fiber would be preferrable, but that would cut off many potential gamers. It's still too soon.
Certain experiences, like VR, could be impossible on cloud, due to the very narrow window between input and visual output on the VR screens: it has to be within 20 milliseconds (input on the controller, signal travelling to the server, processing data with CPU and GPU, and then sentind back the rendered frame to the TV, which also has some latency itself. All that must be within 20 milliseconds, otherwise it starts to feel uncomfortable). Surely with a future connection based on entanglement those problems will be solved
Dude, the wind in space and on the Moon got me so bad I was laughing for a while.UE5 is really impressive, it does so many things at the same time that no other engine can do. And its still in its infancy.
The wind in space and on Moon was funny, tough
Exactly. It is one dude creating this hella impressive concept it is crazy honestly. Further enhances the theory that devs are lazy and money-hungry minimizing effort and maximizing profits.
Son, cheer up a little it aint that deep. That concept was hella impressive I don't care if it came from North Korea itself.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It wasn't impressive.
It's cheap UE store assets with some filters.... This isn't good graphics
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
If this tech goes largely unused this gen I'll..This pertains to our IO/SSD talk, like I mentioned this is something the devs asked for it and Sony gave them something much better.
Here is the link for the article: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/82876/ps5-devs-wanted-1gb-sec-ssd-speeds-sony-delivered-5x-that/index.html#:~:text=Game developers originally wanted an,beyond by delivering 5x that.&text=In a recent interview with,when it came to storage.
I don't know what I'll do
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
You can change the position of the sun in realtime and the GI adjusts. You can change to night time with a press of a button. And the GI adjusts immediately. Thats why Lumens is so impressive in the first place. It's 100% realtime.
The NPCs all have their own AI routines. You can follow them around and while you cant shoot them, they do interact with you if you block their path. You just cant murder them but thats precisely why they left a lot of CPU overhead to add in gaming systems like that.
There are PC mods that let you shoot and damage the cars. I dont know what you mean by random damage system. It is completely simulated. I have done a million crashes and they are different every time. The traffic simulation is better than anything else out there. Fully simulated instead of faked like in previous gen open world games. I have created traffic jams that extends for miles. There are 50k parked cars. 35k cars on the road. 25k pedastrians. These are numbers we just dont see at that level of fidelity.
You can fly in the game. Drive in the game. Have AI react to you in the game. There is an on rails chase sequence with AI, scripted crashes and shooting. I can see the downplaying of a demo like the samaritan demo, but this thing is literally fully playable.
PC Mods enable a bunch of other interactive elements and it truly showcases what this demo can do.
It is far more interactive and simulated than those barren open worlds made by SSM, GG and Ubisoft.
It looks a lot better on PC doesn't it? The image quality us not exactly pristine on ps5