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[supernova8]

I know people like to suck on callisto for the faces lately, but holy shit at some faces in lost judgement

This MUST be considered at least as good as tlou2 and like a spit away from callisto protagonist...

You can fool 99 casuals out of 100 into believing that it's a real picture.

Yakuza must be the only series where secondary characters look better than the protagonist...

Dragon engine lowkey being wonderfull as usual.

That's great and all but the problem with these games (ie Yakuza, Judgement) is the total inconsistency. Sure you have amazing models like that but then you also have (in the same game):

Models like this... so you basically have current-gen level visuals mixed with (in my opinion) PS3 level visuals. It doesn't look good. I know I'm asking for the moon but I would prefer to consistency over a few nice looking character models here and there that don't "fit in". It is definitely better than it was though. Recently playing Yakuza Zero and a lot of the filler NPCs look like they were pulled straight out Doom 3.

I'm guessing these games (with lots of people walking around) would benefit from Nanite or a similar technology so that we can have hundreds of high-quality NPCs on screen without absolutely tanking performance.

 

[SlimySnake]

Crazy how demos of 10 year old games running on old gen hardware look better than the retail versions of said games running on current-gen hardware:

man i didnt realize it got such a massive lighting downgrade. looks like the volumetric lighting had to be severely downgraded. no idea why they would change the time of day either.

 

[LiquidJensen]

The Dead Space remake looks like a last gen game. I guess at one point it was meant to be a cross gen title? And yes I know graphics aren’t everything & I rather play a good “ugly” game over a pretty game that sucks but I can’t help to feel disappointed. Over two years into this gen and we’re still getting games that look like this. What do you guys think?

 

[Lethal01]

The Dead Space remake looks like a last gen game. I guess at one point it was meant to be a cross gen title? And yes I know graphics aren’t everything & I rather play a good “ugly” game over a pretty game that sucks but I can’t help to feel disappointed. Over two years into this gen and we’re still getting games that look like this. What do you guys think?

I think I mostly don't care, I'm more into stylized graphics and the only game I'm really wanting to have jaw dropping visuals is FF7 Rebirth.
I'm not losing any sleep if we get another 3 years of games that look like that.

 

[SlimySnake]

The Dead Space remake looks like a last gen game. I guess at one point it was meant to be a cross gen title? And yes I know graphics aren’t everything & I rather play a good “ugly” game over a pretty game that sucks but I can’t help to feel disappointed. Over two years into this gen and we’re still getting games that look like this. What do you guys think?

It’s a symptom of the laziness and complacency that has swept this industry which used to have ambitious devs jumping at the chance to do something amazing with the new hardware.

Last gen was the first gen when cross gen became a thing but even then, by end of year 1 we had assassins creed unity and cod advanced warfare really pushing the envelope. Advanced warfare was actually ported to ps360 but it was downported and looked like a generational leap over cod ghosts. Those are third party studios who came out guns blazing. By year 2 we had witcher 3, Batman ak, the order, rise of tomb raider, Star Wars battlefront, and even halo 5 which looked next Gen compared to halo 4.

We are now in the third year and they are releasing next Gen only games like dead space, Star Wars, gotham knights, forspoken, ghostwire, tlou, redfall and suicide squad that look last gen as fuck. The publishers allowed them to cancel next Gen versions but the devs still held themselves back. Fuck ‘em.

 

[GymWolf]

That's great and all but the problem with these games (ie Yakuza, Judgement) is the total inconsistency. Sure you have amazing models like that but then you also have (in the same game):

Models like this... so you basically have current-gen level visuals mixed with (in my opinion) PS3 level visuals. It doesn't look good. I know I'm asking for the moon but I would prefer to consistency over a few nice looking character models here and there that don't "fit in". It is definitely better than it was though. Recently playing Yakuza Zero and a lot of the filler NPCs look like they were pulled straight out Doom 3.

I'm guessing these games (with lots of people walking around) would benefit from Nanite or a similar technology so that we can have hundreds of high-quality NPCs on screen without absolutely tanking performance.

I think they are just shit at making female faces, even the female protagonists like the chick in kiwami 2 looked like a doll.

Japanese are incapable of making realistic female faces, they always look like dolls.

 

[GymWolf]

The Dead Space remake looks like a last gen game. I guess at one point it was meant to be a cross gen title? And yes I know graphics aren’t everything & I rather play a good “ugly” game over a pretty game that sucks but I can’t help to feel disappointed. Over two years into this gen and we’re still getting games that look like this. What do you guys think?

It looked like a mid ps4 game with high res since the reveal.

Hilarious that some people was defending the graphic on this thing.

Callisto kinda demolish it, and i fucking hate that crappy waste of binary code.

 

[GooseMan69]

The Dead Space remake looks like a last gen game. I guess at one point it was meant to be a cross gen title? And yes I know graphics aren’t everything & I rather play a good “ugly” game over a pretty game that sucks but I can’t help to feel disappointed. Over two years into this gen and we’re still getting games that look like this. What do you guys think?

Damn, Callisto looks significantly better. Like a full generation better.

 

[alloush]

man i didnt realize it got such a massive lighting downgrade. looks like the volumetric lighting had to be severely downgraded. no idea why they would change the time of day either.

Yeah this is ridiculous honestly, no idea why would they even do that it doesn't make an iota of sense.

 

[Cr1ptkeeper]

Damn, Callisto looks significantly better. Like a full generation better.

I don't understand the praise of Callisto's graphics. The majority thinks it sets a new standard in graphics.
What am I missing?
I finished it on PS5 and to me the graphics were washed out (OLED tv), the art style was bland, animations, cutscenes and facial animation were standard, nothing special compared to other AAA games.
It was also filled with framedrops and object and shadow pop-in.

I played on performance mode. Tried raytracing mode and immediately saw raytracing artifacts on some objects (dots on the object).

What was good was the face model of the protagonist, the snowstorm effects and the light effects on your face when you're wearing your helmet.

My overall impression of the graphics was that of a last gen game.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

It’s a symptom of the laziness and complacency that has swept this industry which used to have ambitious devs jumping at the chance to do something amazing with the new hardware.

Last gen was the first gen when cross gen became a thing but even then, by end of year 1 we had assassins creed unity and cod advanced warfare really pushing the envelope. Advanced warfare was actually ported to ps360 but it was downported and looked like a generational leap over cod ghosts. Those are third party studios who came out guns blazing. By year 2 we had witcher 3, Batman ak, the order, rise of tomb raider, Star Wars battlefront, and even halo 5 which looked next Gen compared to halo 4.

We are now in the third year and they are releasing next Gen only games like dead space, Star Wars, gotham knights, forspoken, ghostwire, tlou, redfall and suicide squad that look last gen as fuck. The publishers allowed them to cancel next Gen versions but the devs still held themselves back. Fuck ‘em.

I think you guys are being a bit unfair due to a few reasons.

1 - Covid. Developers had most of 2020 and some into 2021 interrupted by the transition to working from home. You can basically write off the entirety of 2020 thus the consoles first year due to the pandemic.

2 - Budget. Pushing the visual boundary costs a lot of money. I very much doubt the Dead Space remake had much of a budget compared to the latest Mass Effect for instance. It was probably done by a team of 50 people and worked on for a year or two max.

3 - Current gen only 2023 Games. Before anyone panics let's see what Forspoken, Star Wars, Final Fantasy, Starfield and Spider-Man 2 bring visually this year and even then these are essentially still the first wave of next gen games due to Covid and the delays.

4 - 2024 will bring the second wave of exclusives and some mega franchises like the first look at the new Mass Effect and Witcher games.

5 - Late 2024 / 2025 will bring a wave of Unreal Engine 5 games and all the improvements to rendering that brings to a AAA title.

Even ignoring the above I think Demon's Souls, Forza Horizon 5, Forbidden West, Plague Tale 2, Returnal, GoW Ragnarok, Flight Sim 2020, Modern Warfare II, Callisto Protocol and Rift Apart are all phenomenal looking games that more than justified me picking up both next gen consoles at launch whether the games had much poorer last gen versions or not.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah this is ridiculous honestly, no idea why would they even do that it doesn't make an iota of sense.

In my experience of watching downgrades over the last 10 or so years, (I have become an expert) the lighting downgrades almost always have to do with graphics rendering power. Either they were running this on a souped up PS4 or their rendering budget for this scene is lower than the rendering budget for other scenes. So they had to gut the whole lighting system a la Witcher 3 where they actually had to change the entire renderer a year before launch because of weak console specs. Same thing happened with UE4's realtime global illumination support which Epic took out after demoing it on PC. Consoles couldnt handle it.

I blame the x1 for third party downgrades like Witcher 3, but Sony first party shouldve just targetted 900p instead of trying to hit 1080p in all first party games. We see just what the console can do with a 900p pixel budget thanks to Horizon Forbidden West. The Order also had a similar pixel budget.

This stupid fascination with pixel clarity is hurting developer ambition and they dont realize that. Funny thing is that Avatar and almost all CG in hollywood movies is rendered at 1080p. They call it 2k in that industry but if our goal is to hit CG quality visuals than we shouldnt be wasting precious GPU tflops on hitting 4x the resolution hollywood CG targets.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think you guys are being a bit unfair due to a few reasons.

1 - Covid. Developers had most of 2020 and some into 2021 interrupted by the transition to working from home. You can basically write off the entirety of 2020 thus the consoles first year due to the pandemic.

2 - Budget. Pushing the visual boundary costs a lot of money. I very much doubt the Dead Space remake had much of a budget compared to the latest Mass Effect for instance. It was probably done by a team of 50 people and worked on for a year or two max.

3 - Current gen only 2023 Games. Before anyone panics let's see what Forspoken, Star Wars, Final Fantasy, Starfield and Spider-Man 2 bring visually this year and even then these are essentially still the first wave of next gen games due to Covid and the delays.

4 - 2024 will bring the second wave of exclusives and some mega franchises like the first look at the new Mass Effect and Witcher games.

5 - Late 2024 / 2025 will bring a wave of Unreal Engine 5 games and all the improvements to rendering that brings to a AAA title.

Even ignoring the above I think Demon's Souls, Forza Horizon 5, Forbidden West, Plague Tale 2, Returnal, GoW Ragnarok, Flight Sim 2020, Modern Warfare II, Callisto Protocol and Rift Apart are all phenomenal looking games that more than justified me picking up both next gen consoles at launch whether the games had much poorer last gen versions or not.

I am frankly tired of devs using covid as an excuse. Look at hollywood's output last year vs the utterly awful year the AAA games industry had. 5 AAA games total. All of them last gen looking. Movies are far tougher to make during covid because they require hundreds of crew, on site shooting, hundreds of extras in some cases and in the case of most blockbusters, an army of CG artists working from home feeding their art and animation data to a renderer that takes days to render one frame. If they overcame all these hurdles, why cant game studios? Avatar is literally all CG. Looks amazing and was done mostly during covid.

I am not buying the budget excuse either. Just look at how good those UE5 demos made by one person look. Hell, look at the UE4 demo of Australia. One dude with his camera importing his own pics into the engine and rendering it in realtime. I think we all know why Dead Space looks last gen. Because it started development as a last gen game. Same goes for Forspoken, Star Wars, And FF16. All look last gen as fuck. Spiderman 2 and Starfield are the only exceptions.

I really dont think we should be celebrating getting a 'peak' at next gen games in 2024 and 2025, five years after we paid $500 for their consoles. That should be false advertising. Imagine buying a car in 2020 and not being able to drive it over 50 mph for the first five years. They would get sued to oblivion.

It's funny to me that the games industry is the only one making excuses for covid while every other industry has moved on. Music industry has been having concerts since 2001. Movie industry implemented strict covid protocols but got on with the shooting. Same with the tv industry. baseball, soccer, NFL, every other form of entertainment just sucked it up and figured it out, but gaming still hasn't almost 3 years after covid. This year we finally get a decent number of AAA releases, but 90% of them look last gen. Literally phoning it in. Covid has exposed gaming as a mom and pop industry that is nowhere near the big leagues. They struggle to fill positions. Struggle to deal with any adversity because of lack of resources despite making billions in profits every year especially during covid. It's clear to me that hollywood has come and poached all the good talent and video game studios are stuck with B players who cant get anything done on time. Who lack ambition or the will to stand up to their studio heads who in turn lack the ambition or guts to stand up to Jim Ryan and Phil Spencer.

 

[alloush]

In my experience of watching downgrades over the last 10 or so years, (I have become an expert) the lighting downgrades almost always have to do with graphics rendering power. Either they were running this on a souped up PS4 or their rendering budget for this scene is lower than the rendering budget for other scenes. So they had to gut the whole lighting system a la Witcher 3 where they actually had to change the entire renderer a year before launch because of weak console specs. Same thing happened with UE4's realtime global illumination support which Epic took out after demoing it on PC. Consoles couldnt handle it.

I blame the x1 for third party downgrades like Witcher 3, but Sony first party shouldve just targetted 900p instead of trying to hit 1080p in all first party games. We see just what the console can do with a 900p pixel budget thanks to Horizon Forbidden West. The Order also had a similar pixel budget.

This stupid fascination with pixel clarity is hurting developer ambition and they dont realize that. Funny thing is that Avatar and almost all CG in hollywood movies is rendered at 1080p. They call it 2k in that industry but if our goal is to hit CG quality visuals than we shouldnt be wasting precious GPU tflops on hitting 4x the resolution hollywood CG targets.

How souped up was that PS4 though? Lol. Man that's one helluva PS4 then for it to run the game better than a PS5 that came out 10 years later. The PS5 as we know it is a monstrous machine so what kinda machine were they using back then?

I also very much agree with the bolded part, studios should seriously start ditching targeting 4K when it is not needed which is wasting hella resources that could be used to pump up the graphical fidelity of the game instead.

 

[SlimySnake]

How souped up was that PS4 though? Lol. Man that's one helluva PS4 then for it to run the game better than a PS5 that came out 10 years later. The PS5 as we know it is a monstrous machine so what kinda machine were they using back then?

I also very much agree with the bolded part, studios should seriously start ditching targeting 4K when it is not needed which is wasting hella resources that could be used to pump up the graphical fidelity of the game instead.

Well, the PS5 is running the base PS4 version of the game at 60 fps so it only has access to the downgraded version.

I have always wondered why games like TLOU2, Days Gone, and even the OG GOW demo got downgraded. They were specifically shown as running on PS4 or PS4 Pro. Or rather 'captured' on PS4 and PS4 Pro. So if we assume Sony wasnt lying and they were indeed running on those consoles then downgrading them makes very little sense. Why not downgrade the resolution instead of entire lighting models?

 

[Falc67]

All I’m seeing is downgrades from trailers. Tekken 8 let me down big time. Do we think if Spider-Man 2 doesn’t look like that trailer, and looks exactly like miles morales, then the rest of this gen will disappoint.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

You are gonna regret even more when you are gonna actually play the game, it is basically a long tech demo like ryse.

Those pics look nice but live on your tv, prepare yourself for black bars, low res blurry image, blur, film grain and everything annoying devs can put in a videogame to ruin image clarity.

I replayed the thing less than a year ago because i wanted to know how the game looked in a modern lg c1 oled and i was surprised by how much shit there is on screen.

The title deserve a pc porting just to see the graphic without all the shortcomings of the ps4.

All the game needs is a Ps5/PC update for 4k (using whatever method) and 60 fps then all those negatives you mention are negated. Even now the image quality is not bad at all considering its relatively low resolution and 30 fps. Yes, there is motion blur and chromatic aberration and film grain, but motion blur is high quality and was necessary when they released this on ps4.

I just fired it up the other day and was impressed how well it holds up on my Oled c8 especially when compared to other games from that time period that havn't been patched. I think for someone who plays all the time on PC at high framerates like 120 at 4k it may appear rough but compared to say, Drive Club, Ryse, or Bloodborne (all low res low fps unpatched) it blows them away in terms of iq.

I can't even play Drive club it looks so bad. Vaseline smeared and aliased at 30 fps. BB has some of the nastiest AA in a game. Shame on Sony for not at least patching these games to 1440p/60. That would make a world of difference. Same with MS shame on them for not patching Ryse. These games were technical marvels at the time and they deserve to be playable on a 4k TV. If they got patched they would make some of today's games look bad and that's not an exaggeration.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Crazy how demos of 10 year old games running on old gen hardware look better than the retail versions of said games running on current-gen hardware:

Yeah. If you've been a hard-core gamer following the industry closely since say 2013 then yeah, you know how downgrades are still the rule rather than the exception. Devs are just sneakier and more subtle about it these days by showing PC footage labeled as ps5 or series x. There will be an Xbox or PS5 conference so it's assumed that everything is actually running off those systems when it's often not.

Even the first "next gen" footage we ever saw this gen, Bright Memory Infinte, was the PC version decked out with RT and downgraded pretty badly by the time it came out. What a way to start the gen Microsoft! It's funny how a lot of people have this idea that devs don't do it anymore.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

It looked like a mid ps4 game with high res since the reveal.

Hilarious that some people was defending the graphic on this thing.

Callisto kinda demolish it, and i fucking hate that crappy waste of binary code.

Yeah I remember a thread where people were laughing saying how this looked "next gen" while Callisto looked "cross gen".

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Slimy, Starfield doesn't look next gen at all. It's one of the least next gen looking games on your list imo. The shadows look like xbox 360 shadows, all harsh and crushed. The lighting model is questionable. No gore or dismemberment. The faces may be an improvement over FO4 but are still last gen looking. They have photogrammetry though at least. It's also running at only 30 fps...yikes...

 

[Represent.]

The Dead Space remake looks like a last gen game. I guess at one point it was meant to be a cross gen title? And yes I know graphics aren’t everything & I rather play a good “ugly” game over a pretty game that sucks but I can’t help to feel disappointed. Over two years into this gen and we’re still getting games that look like this. What do you guys think?

I posted my thoughts in the trailer thread.

The fact that it looks like a straight up PS4 game has launched it straight to the top of my "no buy, don't support cross gen games, or games that look cross gen" list.

This is a current gen only corridor shooter. Theres like 2 enemies on screen at once. It should legit be one of the best looking games ever made. The fact that Calisto looks miles better, and is a cross gen game made by a brand new studio is enough reason for me not to support this game.

Devs need to start pushing boundaries. Enough mediocracy. Push better fidelity or gtfo. Im gonna start letting my wallet do the talking.

Im done buying both cross gen and last gen looking games. If these devs dont have the ability to push out quality graphics then I'm not supporting them. Period. The mediocracy and lack of talent is going to cost them my money. Fuck them.

 

[farmerboy]

Tell you what, I've been pleasantly surprised by Stray. It can look positively gorgeous at times.

 

[SlimySnake]

Slimy, Starfield doesn't look next gen at all. It's one of the least next gen looking games on your list imo. The shadows look like xbox 360 shadows, all harsh and crushed. The lighting model is questionable. No gore or dismemberment. The faces may be an improvement over FO4 but are still last gen looking. They have photogrammetry though at least. It's also running at only 30 fps...yikes...

it looks cross gen during first person gameplay but in terms of vistas it is unlike anything ive seen. these planets are supposed to be explorable so unless these gifs below are cutscenes, the game looks remarkable.

The draw distance. The lighting. Compare it to HFW which is the best looking game out right now and you will instantly spot the lighting and draw distance upgrades over HFW.

Maybe they are lying and those are bullshots, but i think the scale and the AMBITION of the game is what i wanted from AAA studios like GG and SSM who settled for some of the shittiest finale battles ive seen. Starfield just might be a worse game than GOW and HFW, but i respect their ambition and their decision to make a game that started development in 2017 next gen only. If anything, im disappointed that they are targeting native 4k 30 fps on the series x. Shouldve targeted 1440p 30 fps on the series x and pushed the visuals so it looks a lot more consistent especially during gameplay, but i suspect series s might have forced their hand there in order to keep the series s version at least 1080p.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

it looks cross gen during first person gameplay but in terms of vistas it is unlike anything ive seen. these planets are supposed to be explorable so unless these gifs below are cutscenes, the game looks remarkable.

The draw distance. The lighting. Compare it to HFW which is the best looking game out right now and you will instantly spot the lighting and draw distance upgrades over HFW.

Maybe they are lying and those are bullshots, but i think the scale and the AMBITION of the game is what i wanted from AAA studios like GG and SSM who settled for some of the shittiest finale battles ive seen. Starfield just might be a worse game than GOW and HFW, but i respect their ambition and their decision to make a game that started development in 2017 next gen only. If anything, im disappointed that they are targeting native 4k 30 fps on the series x. Shouldve targeted 1440p 30 fps on the series x and pushed the visuals so it looks a lot more consistent especially during gameplay, but i suspect series s might have forced their hand there in order to keep the series s version at least 1080p.

Well we saw exactly how it'll look in gameplay and I don't think it matched those clips. Also, Bethesda.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Well we saw exactly how it'll look in gameplay and I don't think it matched those clips. Also, Bethesda.

Maybe I'm being too critical and need to reevaluate because the Creet environment did look pretty stunning.

The other thing I'm worried about on Series X though is 30 fps. It's gonna feel bad to play at 30. Did you see how off the aiming looked? You know how when an fps doesn't do deadzones correctly or has input lag and you lose the ability to use fine motor skills when aiming? You can't really make those small adjustments and so you have to aim by moving along the x axis? That's how the aiming looked!

 

[Pharaoh 117]

I am frankly tired of devs using covid as an excuse. Look at hollywood's output last year vs the utterly awful year the AAA games industry had. 5 AAA games total. All of them last gen looking. Movies are far tougher to make during covid because they require hundreds of crew, on site shooting, hundreds of extras in some cases and in the case of most blockbusters, an army of CG artists working from home feeding their art and animation data to a renderer that takes days to render one frame. If they overcame all these hurdles, why cant game studios? Avatar is literally all CG. Looks amazing and was done mostly during covid.

I am not buying the budget excuse either. Just look at how good those UE5 demos made by one person look. Hell, look at the UE4 demo of Australia. One dude with his camera importing his own pics into the engine and rendering it in realtime. I think we all know why Dead Space looks last gen. Because it started development as a last gen game. Same goes for Forspoken, Star Wars, And FF16. All look last gen as fuck. Spiderman 2 and Starfield are the only exceptions.

I really dont think we should be celebrating getting a 'peak' at next gen games in 2024 and 2025, five years after we paid $500 for their consoles. That should be false advertising. Imagine buying a car in 2020 and not being able to drive it over 50 mph for the first five years. They would get sued to oblivion.

It's funny to me that the games industry is the only one making excuses for covid while every other industry has moved on. Music industry has been having concerts since 2001. Movie industry implemented strict covid protocols but got on with the shooting. Same with the tv industry. baseball, soccer, NFL, every other form of entertainment just sucked it up and figured it out, but gaming still hasn't almost 3 years after covid. This year we finally get a decent number of AAA releases, but 90% of them look last gen. Literally phoning it in. Covid has exposed gaming as a mom and pop industry that is nowhere near the big leagues. They struggle to fill positions. Struggle to deal with any adversity because of lack of resources despite making billions in profits every year especially during covid. It's clear to me that hollywood has come and poached all the good talent and video game studios are stuck with B players who cant get anything done on time. Who lack ambition or the will to stand up to their studio heads who in turn lack the ambition or guts to stand up to Jim Ryan and Phil Spencer.

Frankly I'm tired of cross-gen apologetics. The reason for this extended period of cross-gen games is greed, pure and simple. Sony wanted to milk their huge install base dry. PS4 support should have ended with TLoUPII and Ghost of Tsushima and nobody should've complained because PS4 have one of the best game libraries ever. It's absurd that last year we didn't get a single true PS5 game from Sony (and no, Part I is not it). It's such a shame that FW, GT7 and Ragnarok are all PS4 games and we will have to wait 4+ years to see sequels that explore the PS5 capabilities.

I don't blame Third Party publishers as much because in their case the game is the product so it makes sense to want to offer it to the max number of possible costumers.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

The Dead Space remake looks like a last gen game. I guess at one point it was meant to be a cross gen title? And yes I know graphics aren’t everything & I rather play a good “ugly” game over a pretty game that sucks but I can’t help to feel disappointed. Over two years into this gen and we’re still getting games that look like this. What do you guys think?

I agree.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

All I’m seeing is downgrades from trailers. Tekken 8 let me down big time. Do we think if Spider-Man 2 doesn’t look like that trailer, and looks exactly like miles morales, then the rest of this gen will disappoint.

Yes, Tekken 8 looks horrible IMO…whats so hard about making a fighting game with only two characters on screen at once look like CGI?

 

[Neilg]

. Funny thing is that Avatar and almost all CG in hollywood movies is rendered at 1080p.

Avatar came out in 2010 though. It was also rendered in stereo, so 2x 1080p
Mostly everyone since 2010 is working at 4k. Modern IMAX is 6k.

That being said, I agree that 1080p for games is fine. Ai upscaling is huge and our studio bailed on rendering in 4k for ads and web spots, choosing to produce at 1080p and upscale to 4k. The results are near flawless.
The next consoles are very likely going to have dedicated upscaling processors in them to keep that seperate from the rest of the CPU/GPU.
DLSS was still a bit too new when these consoles were being designed and it needed custom data for each game - 3.0 is way more universal but only just came out.
With that in the next gen, render resolution is going to go down while available power jumps up.

 

[alloush]

Well, the PS5 is running the base PS4 version of the game at 60 fps so it only has access to the downgraded version.

I have always wondered why games like TLOU2, Days Gone, and even the OG GOW demo got downgraded. They were specifically shown as running on PS4 or PS4 Pro. Or rather 'captured' on PS4 and PS4 Pro. So if we assume Sony wasnt lying and they were indeed running on those consoles then downgrading them makes very little sense. Why not downgrade the resolution instead of entire lighting models?

THIS. Again it does not make an iota of sense to downgrade games that were supposedly running on a PS4/Pro. Not only do I not expect them to downgrade them, I expect them to outright upgrade them. The only thing that is giving me hope for this gen is The Matrix demo which showed us what these consoles are capable of. I visit that demo always to get my dose of technical marvel and graphical fidelity.

Yeah. If you've been a hard-core gamer following the industry closely since say 2013 then yeah, you know how downgrades are still the rule rather than the exception. Devs are just sneakier and more subtle about it these days by showing PC footage labeled as ps5 or series x. There will be an Xbox or PS5 conference so it's assumed that everything is actually running off those systems when it's often not.

Even the first "next gen" footage we ever saw this gen, Bright Memory Infinte, was the PC version decked out with RT and downgraded pretty badly by the time it came out. What a way to start the gen Microsoft! It's funny how a lot of people have this idea that devs don't do it anymore.

Yeah it is actually borderline ridiculous. Devs are becoming unbearable, if I am not mistaken the "Dev" position had one of the highest turnovers in the industry they are being fired left, right and center. Let's not forget that 99% of games that launch today launch with a myriad of bugs and a day 1 patch to iron out those bugs, gone are the days where games would be perfectly polished up and don't need patches, I blame the internet for this. But then again games today are more complex to make so bugs are expected so I cut them some slack but depending on how buggy the game is.

 

[KXVXII9X]

That's great and all but the problem with these games (ie Yakuza, Judgement) is the total inconsistency. Sure you have amazing models like that but then you also have (in the same game):

Models like this... so you basically have current-gen level visuals mixed with (in my opinion) PS3 level visuals. It doesn't look good. I know I'm asking for the moon but I would prefer to consistency over a few nice looking character models here and there that don't "fit in". It is definitely better than it was though. Recently playing Yakuza Zero and a lot of the filler NPCs look like they were pulled straight out Doom 3.

I'm guessing these games (with lots of people walking around) would benefit from Nanite or a similar technology so that we can have hundreds of high-quality NPCs on screen without absolutely tanking performance.

I definitely agree with this. I love this series so far, but I'm sometimes taken out of the experience when I go from a beautiful cutscene with detailed NPC, great lighting, and beautiful animations to another objective and the characters look two gens behind. This is probably my biggest gripe with last gen games overall. So much inconsistent detail.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Tell you what, I've been pleasantly surprised by Stray. It can look positively gorgeous at times.

It is one of the best looking games I have played. It's art direction and lighting are top notch.

 

[SlimySnake]

Avatar came out in 2010 though. It was also rendered in stereo, so 2x 1080p
Mostly everyone since 2010 is working at 4k. Modern IMAX is 6k.

Nah, all CG is still rendered at 1080p. Even 4k blurays for Pixar movies are 2k or 1080p. Remastered to 4k. But the original image is rendered at 1080p for all CG in every movie.

I am guessing it is due to the time it takes to render one frame. Sometimes it can take days if not weeks to render a single second of footage. if it was 4k it would take 4x as long.

Frankly I'm tired of cross-gen apologetics. The reason for this extended period of cross-gen games is greed, pure and simple. Sony wanted to milk their huge install base dry. PS4 support should have ended with TLoUPII and Ghost of Tsushima and nobody should've complained because PS4 have one of the best game libraries ever. It's absurd that last year we didn't get a single true PS5 game from Sony (and no, Part I is not it). It's such a shame that FW, GT7 and Ragnarok are all PS4 games and we will have to wait 4+ years to see sequels that explore the PS5 capabilities.

I don't blame Third Party publishers as much because in their case the game is the product so it makes sense to want to offer it to the max number of possible costumers.

It was always greed and we knew it from last gen when games like Far Cry 4, Watch Dogs, Dragon Age and Destiny were launched as cross gen games. Back then we didnt have any qualms over calling them out for what they are. However, firt party publishers have huge defense forces online and they banked on their warriors to defend the indefensible. MS and Sony were both in great positions having launched games in 2017 and 2018 from key first party studios. With game development taking longer than ever, having 2-3 year head start on the generation wouldve been the perfect time to start next gen only development. But they made Horizon, GOW and GT7 all last gen anyway. We had gonzalo leaks in 2018. The PS5 chip was already being tested. First party shouldve at least known the specs that early.

Third parties saw the reluctance from first parties and just exploited it. Sony and MS shouldve been pressuring activision to release its THIRD CoD of the gen as an exclusive but they had no leg to stand on. Now all of these companies have the sales data. They see that last gen versions barely account for 10% of the sales and are cancelling last gen versions but its too late. these games are already handicapped by last gen specs and tech.

The worst part is that Miles sales shouldve been the first clue that people would just wait to get their hands on PS5 even for cross gen games. That game would shoot up in sales every time PS5 stock replenished. No one wanted to play it on a last gen machine. thats 2 years of dev time that couldve been used to give GOW and Horizon a grand finale they deserved.

P.S in a few weeks, Sony is going to announce MLB the SHow 2023. The THIRD MLB game this gen. And chances are that it will still ship with zero next gen graphical upgrades like the previous two years. Simply 4k 60 fps ports. Thats a first party publisher ladies and gentleman. Why would third parties even bother?

 

[SlimySnake]

Graphical Fidelity I expect this gen.

Graphical Fidelity I get this gen.

 

[alloush]

Graphical Fidelity I expect this gen.

Graphical Fidelity I get this gen.

At first I thought you were alluding to the second pic as graphical fidelity you expect this gen and I was like aw hell nah this looks terrible until I saw the comment above the picture lol. Is the first pic of a real guy or CGI?

 

[Neilg]

Nah, all CG is still rendered at 1080p. Even 4k blurays for Pixar movies are 2k or 1080p. Remastered to 4k. But the original image is rendered at 1080p for all CG in every movie.

'every movie' / 'all CG' is flat out wrong. I have good friends and work with people who have done freelance stints in lighting and environment art across most big studios. I have an extremely vested interest in picking their brains about how the big studios work for the work I am in charge of.
You can find articles from ILM saying 'some' productions are moving to 4k from 2006, and articles from 2010 talking about the technical challenges of the bump to 4k they've had to solve. Maybe pixar upscale, I dont know anyone that's worked there, but the vast majority of movies with CG (all that i'm aware of) render at the native resolution of the live-action cameras.

 

[alloush]

These realism mods don't move me, while they do make the game look shinier but this isn't even remotely close to what I expect/want from a graphical point of view this gen. The title says it almost looks like a movie lol the bar is hella low:

 

[SlimySnake]

'every movie' is flat out wrong.
You can find articles from ILM saying 'some' productions are moving to 4k from 2006, and articles from 2010 talking about the technical challenges of the bump to 4k they've had to solve. Maybe pixar upscale, but the vast majority of movies render at the native resolution it was shot at.

I am talking about CG movies, not regular movies. Or the actual CG in regular movies. Even Marvel movies that use CG dont render the CG at 4k. They are all 2k or 1080p. The actual reallife footage might be native 4k but the CG inside those shots isnt.

 

[SlimySnake]

At first I thought you were alluding to the second pic as graphical fidelity you expect this gen and I was like aw hell nah this looks terrible until I saw the comment above the picture lol. Is the first pic of a real guy or CGI?

CG. It was from the reveal trailer. To EA's credit, they said it wasnt real game footage.

 

[Neilg]

I am talking about CG movies, not regular movies. Or the actual CG in regular movies. Even Marvel movies that use CG dont render the CG at 4k. They are all 2k or 1080p. The actual reallife footage might be native 4k but the CG inside those shots isnt.

I am talking about the CG in movies. How would I be talking about rendering that ILM has done in a movie that doesnt have CG in it?

You mean to say 'most'. most movies are at 1080p. not all.

 

[SlimySnake]

I am talking about the CG in movies. How would I be talking about rendering that ILM has done in a movie that doesnt have CG in it?

You mean to say 'most'. most movies are at 1080p. not all.

I see. So ILM is now rendering their CG at 4k?

I own a bunch of movies in 4k and would like to see the difference between 2k CG and 4k CG.

Avatar 2 CG looks amazing, but I remember reading that it was still 2k. Do you know what other movies are using 4k CG?

 

[rofif]

These realism mods don't move me, while they do make the game look shinier but this isn't even remotely close to what I expect/want from a graphical point of view this gen. The title says it almost looks like a movie lol the bar is hella low:

lol yeah this is shit.
Always bad looking.

Tbh, the current gta 5 version on ps5/xsx looks pretty fantastic with RT, TAA and dof they got in there now

 

[alloush]

CG. It was from the reveal trailer. To EA's credit, they said it wasnt real game footage.

Oh wow so good that I legit thought that was a real person; impressive stuff.

lol yeah this is shit.
Always bad looking.

Tbh, the current gta 5 version on ps5/xsx looks pretty fantastic with RT, TAA and dof they got in there now

You should read the comments man, one said he expects GTA6 to be close to that then others under his comment said it won't even be close to that. Good God the bar is low for the majority and this is what's making devs hella lazy they know the bar is low and people are easily wowed so they don't even try.

 

[rofif]

Oh wow so good that I legit thought that was a real person; impressive stuff.


You should read the comments man, one said he expects GTA6 to be close to that then others under his comment said it won't even be close to that. Good God the bar is low for the majority and this is what's making devs hella lazy they know the bar is low and people are easily wowed so they don't even try.

Same with htese stupid fake UE trailers. People eat this up. Shiny instagram graphics. Always oversharpened too

 

[mansoor1980]

this looks filmic

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Oh wow so good that I legit thought that was a real person; impressive stuff.


You should read the comments man, one said he expects GTA6 to be close to that then others under his comment said it won't even be close to that. Good God the bar is low for the majority and this is what's making devs hella lazy they know the bar is low and people are easily wowed so they don't even try.

I booted up Mass Effect: Andromeda on PC yesterday. A game from 2017. It could pass as a new release today, and not because it looks good.

 

[GymWolf]

Graphical Fidelity I expect this gen.

Graphical Fidelity I get this gen.

Tbf even the first pic is hardly better than callisto or even the jap dude i posted.
Hairs still look gamey af.

 

[Neilg]

I see. So ILM is now rendering their CG at 4k?

Avatar 2 CG looks amazing, but I remember reading that it was still 2k. Do you know what other movies are using 4k CG?

Probably not everything, but I know someone that worked on a 4k feature at ILM and said it was a fucking nightmare.
Would you accept hearsay? I can ask.
Maybe the transition period to 4k never really stuck. everyone did give it a go though. And there are a decent number of movies where CG is added to live-action plates at native resolution (mostly where they know render time wont be a bottleneck).

 

[SlimySnake]

Probably not everything, but I know someone that worked on a 4k feature at ILM and said it was a fucking nightmare.
Would you accept hearsay? I can ask.
Maybe the transition period to 4k never really stuck. everyone did give it a go though.

Nah, no need if its too much trouble. I was just curious. I love ILM stuff. Their transformers CG looks amazing and a cut above other movies ive seen. Wouldnt be surprised if they rendered that at a higher resolution.

But my point was that CG nowadays is leaps and bounds ahead of the native 4k next gen only games we have received so far this gen. Id rather devs focus on lowering the resolution and aiming for higher level of fidelity at 1080p or even 1440p to at least try and match what these movie studios are doing with CG nowadays. There is a weird bear/cat movie i saw last summer in passing. I think it was from pixar. The cg was absolutely insane especially during action scenes and i watched it on a 1080p tv at my in-laws. i instantly compared it to ratchet which is running at 4k 50 fps on the PS5 and im like why?

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Id rather devs focus on lowering the resolution and aiming for higher level of fidelity at 1080p or even 1440p to at least try and match what these movie studios are doing with CG nowadays.

That is exactly what developers are doing now with retail videogames it’s just the hardware isn’t fast enough man.

They have been lowering the resolution to aim for higher level of fidelity and using upscaling techniques for like almost a decade now, we all can objectively see this.

Video games will have the likeness of CG, but actually matching CG that’s not going to happen for a long ass time.