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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
It looks a lot better on PC doesn't it? The image quality us not exactly pristine on ps5
Not really. I ran it on my 3080 and my 2080, and honestly its the same. my 12 GB 3080 ran at around 40-45 fps at native 4k while the 10 GB 3080 ran it a bit worse at around 37-40 fps while driving but the PS5 version still looks great in comparison. Someone in the Matrix PC demo thread said that the exe we downloaded isnt true native 4k and might be using TSR like consoles but frankly, i downloaded like six different versions of the Matrix demo on PC and the difference really wasnt that stark. its just a grainy looking game by design since they wanted it to look filmic so they went all in with motion blur, chromatic abberation and film grain.
 

CamHostage

Member


Watched it yesterday. Pretty impressive stuff from one dude.

Crazy that entire teams of 500-1000 developers cant seem to get there though.


Sure they can...

They can download a cityscape skycraper set and a chaulky moonscape and some palm tree props and write a rather procedural relationship system for populating a globe model with these assets. That's plenty doable. The Matrix City Sample has a ways more accurate scale and nuanced level of detail / augmented replication, and that was just one stretch of one city. (Matrix of course was also a major production by the best in the business to show off this tech, but it's off the same playbook of how to use UE5.) It's assets and it's algorithms, and much of this "one dude"s work came from the work of a lot of other people (including, of course, the basic UE5 development suite itself.)

You're still raging against developers not delivering anything this long into the gen which holds up to the promise of the 2020 UE5 Unveiling (Lumen in the Land of Nanite.) I get it, that shit was cool and the wait has been unbearable; little homebrew kitbash projects meanwhile have been shown playing with UE5, and that stuff has made it even more painful to see what all seems so doable yet isn't happening in mainline games. Can't these teams of 500-1000 developers just do this?

...But realistically, these homebrewers aren't showing shit that developers don't already know. The assets are out there if you decide to go that route, the engine is available and its experimental tech is generally holding up better than even promised, and the basics are easier and cheaper than ever. But the hard part isn't just algorithmically dotting a map with content; the hard part is making the game. You need to diversify all the areas so that there's flow and style, so it doesn't just blend feel like one flat, bland surface. You need play systems, so that there's something to do in these open spaces. You of course need animations instead of the standard UE avatar, you need a camera system, you need lighting design beyond basic GI, you need customized props and landscapes and sounds and whatnot, you need to optimize it and fit it in an executeable that can be reasonably delivered without breaking a player's SSD bank... You need to do the real work.




There's a billion of these "Graphically INSANE UE5 demo" videos showing stuff people have been toying with... but look on Steam for any actual UE5 "games" and you still won't find much. There's Low Light Combat and Market of Light, "UE5 Shooter Game", demos for Stray Souls and The Wickie, Versus and Space Station 51 are in Early Access, other stuff, some Itch-IO shit (get ready for some PT clones...), a couple hacks of Lyra, but nothing like even the deluge of pennycandy apps you'd expect from a free release of a huge technology breakthrough, and nothing that actually in playable state holds up to any level of expected wow-factor seen in these "INSANE" demos.

All these kids in their basements and attics who can make "INSANE" demos can't actually produce a game, insane or otherwise. Even with off-the-shelf assets and generally available game blueprints/templates and an engine that practically doesn't choke anymore on kitbashing, you still rarely find even simple gamejam-type "Let's just throw shit in to look cool while they float around rings or something" projects playable. These folks, they know how to pick out really nice wallpaper; they don't know how to architect the house. (Or rather, some do know how to do that, but that's the hard stuff that takes time, and they haven't had that kind of time and resources to do it for real.) Stuff's out there to mess with, but nothing has released to demonstrate anything more than that we're still just on the cusp of where things are going.
 
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alloush

Member
Sure they can...

They can download a cityscape skycraper set and a chaulky moonscape and some palm tree props and write a rather procedural relationship system for populating a globe model with these assets. That's plenty doable. The Matrix City Sample has a ways more accurate scale and nuanced level of detail / augmented replication, and that was just one stretch of one city. (Matrix of course was also a major production by the best in the business to show off this tech, but it's off the same playbook of how to use UE5.) It's assets and it's algorithms, and much of this "one dude"s work came from the work of a lot of other people (including, of course, the basic UE5 development suite itself.)

You're still raging against developers not delivering anything this long into the gen which holds up to the promise of the 2020 UE5 Unveiling (Lumen in the Land of Nanite.) I get it, that shit was cool and the wait has been unbearable; little homebrew kitbash projects meanwhile have been shown playing with UE5, and that stuff has made it even more painful to see what all seems so doable yet isn't happening in mainline games. Can't these teams of 500-1000 developers just do this?

...But realistically, these homebrewers aren't showing shit that developers don't already know. The assets are out there if you decide to go that route, the engine is available and its experimental tech is generally holding up better than even promised, and the basics are easier and cheaper than ever. But the hard part isn't just algorithmically dotting a map with content; the hard part is making the game. You need to diversify all the areas so that there's flow and style, so it doesn't just blend feel like one flat, bland surface. You need play systems, so that there's something to do in these open spaces. You of course need animations instead of the standard UE avatar, you need a camera system, you need lighting design beyond basic GI, you need customized props and landscapes and sounds and whatnot, you need to optimize it and fit it in an executeable that can be reasonably delivered without breaking a player's SSD bank... You need to do the real work.




There's a billion of these "Graphically INSANE UE5 demo" videos showing stuff people have been toying with... but look on Steam for any actual UE5 "games" and you still won't find much. There's Low Light Combat and Market of Light, "UE5 Shooter Game", demos for Stray Souls and The Wickie, Versus and Space Station 51 are in Early Access, other stuff, some Itch-IO shit (get ready for some PT clones...), a couple hacks of Lyra, but nothing like even the deluge of pennycandy apps you'd expect from a free release of a huge technology breakthrough, and nothing that actually in playable state holds up to any level of expected wow-factor seen in these "INSANE" demos.

All these kids in their basements and attics who can make "INSANE" demos can't actually produce a game, insane or otherwise. Even with off-the-shelf assets and generally available game blueprints/templates and an engine that practically doesn't choke anymore on kitbashing, you still rarely find even simple gamejam-type "Let's just throw shit in to look cool while they float around rings or something" projects playable. These folks, they know how to pick out really nice wallpaper; they don't know how to architect the house. (Or rather, some do know how to do that, but that's the hard stuff that takes time, and they haven't had that kind of time and resources to do it for real.) Stuff's out there to mess with, but nothing has released to demonstrate anything more than that we're still just on the cusp of where things are going.

Great post.

Question to you Cam, do you reckon we will see games with graphical fidelity that matches these demos we are posting here at the end of this gen?
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Every time I see a post about this game I regret not playing it.
You are gonna regret even more when you are gonna actually play the game, it is basically a long tech demo like ryse.

Those pics look nice but live on your tv, prepare yourself for black bars, low res blurry image, blur, film grain and everything annoying devs can put in a videogame to ruin image clarity.

I replayed the thing less than a year ago because i wanted to know how the game looked in a modern lg c1 oled and i was surprised by how much shit there is on screen.

The title deserve a pc porting just to see the graphic without all the shortcomings of the ps4.
 

alloush

Member
You are gonna regret even more when you are gonna actually play the game, it is basically a long tech demo like ryse.

Those pics look nice but live on your tv, prepare yourself for black bars, low res blurry image, blur, film grain and everything annoying devs can put in a videogame to ruin image clarity.

I replayed the thing less than a year ago because i wanted to know how the game looked in a modern lg c1 oled and i was surprised by how much shit there is on screen.

The title deserve a pc porting just to see the graphic without all the shortcomings of the ps4.
That's interesting. A lotta folks on NeoGaf seem to love the game and cannot stop talking about it, well the graphics side of it at least. But if that's the case then I am ok not playing the game. As big as I am on graphics if the gameplay is crap I won't last playing the game.

Might just give a shot to see how it looks and that's all.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
That's interesting. A lotta folks on NeoGaf seem to love the game and cannot stop talking about it, well the graphics side of it at least. But if that's the case then I am ok not playing the game. As big as I am on graphics if the gameplay is crap I won't last playing the game.

Might just give a shot to see how it looks and that's all.
Oh no dude, always try the game by yourself, i hate any form of graphic effect that make the image less clean, but some people love film grain, cinematic black bars, a more soft image and motion blur.

The game has some good things going on, like the weapons all feel different, the shooting is pretty good, the gore was ok, but the game feels like a tech demo because enemy variety is inexistent, it is extremely easy even on hard, it is very short and with very little gameplay, the boss fights are utter crap and only get beaten by callisto protocol boss fights.

The atmosphere is great but the plot has some plotholes (kinda unforgiveable for a short story driven game) and the characters have a great VA, but they are really as deep as a puddle.

This is a sony centric forum, of course you are gonna see a lot of people loving mediocre sony games like they were the second coming of sliced jesus.

5-10 dollars is the right price.
 
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That's interesting. A lotta folks on NeoGaf seem to love the game and cannot stop talking about it, well the graphics side of it at least. But if that's the case then I am ok not playing the game. As big as I am on graphics if the gameplay is crap I won't last playing the game.

Might just give a shot to see how it looks and that's all.
I loved the Order but I also loved Ryse lol both games came out early in the generation I was expecting "next-gen" graphics and that's exactly what they delivered, the gameplay on both was good enough not great.
 

alloush

Member
Oh no dude, always try the game by yourself, i hate any form of graphic effect that make the image less clean, but some people love film grain, cineamatic black bars, a more soft image and motion blur.

The game has some good tjings going on, like the weapons all feel different, the shooting is pretty good, the gore was ok, but the game feels like a tech demo because enemy variety is inexistent, it is extremely easy even on hard, it is very short and with very little gameplay, the boss fights are utter crap and only get beaten by callisto protocol boss fights.

The atmosphere is great but the plot has some plotholes (kinda unforgiveable for a short story driven game) and the characters have a great VA, but they are really as deep as a puddle.

This is a sony centric forum, of course you are gonna see a lot of people loving mediocre sony games like they were the second coming of sliced jesus.

5-10 dollars is the right price.
I appreciate the assessment, man. For the price point you mentioned it is worth trying out. I have seen vids of it and it does look great and when you remember it came out in 2015 on the PS4 you appreciate it even more. Let me download the game and see what the fuss is all about, as you mentioned it is more like a tech demo so I won't care that much about the gameplay.

I loved the Order but I also loved Ryse lol both games came out early in the generation I was expecting "next-gen" graphics and that's exactly what they delivered, the gameplay on both was good enough not great.
Yeah Ryse looked hella good and we are saying this in 2023 so imagine how we felt when we first saw it back in 2013. That's the thing a lotta games that launched with the PS4/XBONE were exclusive to that gen and looked absolutely fantastic and got us so excited for the gen ahead of us something we cannot say about this gen yet but for some odd reason I am more excited about this gen that I was about the last one don't ask me why lol.
 

UnNamed

Banned

This game has the best use of different shaders for materials than any PS4 game, and even some PS5 game. The Tesla's laboratory is still impressive even for today's standard, where glass is glass, leather is leather, wood is wood, copper is copper and not iron, iron is iron and not copper.



Too bad the game is boring, it's a generic TPS from N64 era where you just hide and shoot. The game also has a bullet time mode, but it's so useless I remember I beat the game without using it because I forgot it was there.
 

TonyK

Member


Too bad the game is boring, it's a generic TPS from N64 era where you just hide and shoot. The game also has a bullet time mode, but it's so useless I remember I beat the game without using it because I forgot it was there.

True, but is not different from Gears os War saga, even Gears 5. They are simple, linear and even boring at places, but I enjoyed all those games because they are beautiful and combat is fun.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
True, but is not different from Gears os War saga, even Gears 5. They are simple, linear and even boring at places, but I enjoyed all those games because they are beautiful and combat is fun.
Gears of war trilogy is amazing. Really fun gameplay and characters and world and everything. Great games.... aside from new ones.
So if Order 1886 is that... then wtf it's been sitting in my backlog for years ?! I need to play it lol
 

shiru

Banned
Gears of war trilogy is amazing. Really fun gameplay and characters and world and everything. Great games.... aside from new ones.
So if Order 1886 is that... then wtf it's been sitting in my backlog for years ?! I need to play it lol
It's not. You can watch a playthrough of it and more or less get the same experience as "playing" it.
 

UnNamed

Banned
True, but is not different from Gears os War saga, even Gears 5. They are simple, linear and even boring at places, but I enjoyed all those games because they are beautiful and combat is fun.
Gears of War has risk/rewards mechanics, without them it would be boring as well, but at least the environment is dynamic. There is no interactivity in The Order, except for some scenes like the one I've posted. The Order doesn't push you to take risks, even the (few) fights against werewolf weren't that good.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
I know people like to suck on callisto for the faces lately, but holy shit at some faces in lost judgement

Wot7yQk.png



This MUST be considered at least as good as tlou2 and like a spit away from callisto protagonist...

You can fool 99 casuals out of 100 into believing that it's a real picture.

Yakuza must be the only series where secondary characters look better than the protagonist...

Dragon engine lowkey being wonderfull as usual.
 
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rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I know people like to suck on callisto for the faces lately, but holy shit at some faces in lost judgement

Wot7yQk.png



This MUST be considered at least as good as tlou2 and like a spit away from callisto protagonist...

You can fool 99 casuals out of 100 into believing that it's a real picture.

Yakuza must be the only series where secondary characters look better than the protagonist...
yeah looks great. So this isn't just another yakuza game?!
 

analog_future

Resident Crybaby
I know people like to suck on callisto for the faces lately, but holy shit at some faces in lost judgement

Wot7yQk.png



This MUST be considered at least as good as tlou2 and like a spit away from callisto protagonist...

You can fool 99 casuals out of 100 into believing that it's a real picture.

Yakuza must be the only series where secondary characters look better than the protagonist...

Dragon engine lowkey being wonderfull as usual.

It looks great as a still image but falls apart compared to TLOU2 as soon as you compare facial animations.
 

KXVXII9X

Member
I know people like to suck on callisto for the faces lately, but holy shit at some faces in lost judgement

Wot7yQk.png



This MUST be considered at least as good as tlou2 and like a spit away from callisto protagonist...

You can fool 99 casuals out of 100 into believing that it's a real picture.

Yakuza must be the only series where secondary characters look better than the protagonist...

Dragon engine lowkey being wonderfull as usual.
Discovering this franchise was the highlight of 2020 for me.

Ryu Ga Gotoku does such a good job with its main and supporting character and building such an immersive environment. Exploring Yokohama felt like going on a virtual vacation. Don't forget the impressive Like a Dragon bread lol.

Currently playing through the first Judgment and really like it!
 

Hugare

Member
I know people like to suck on callisto for the faces lately, but holy shit at some faces in lost judgement

Wot7yQk.png



This MUST be considered at least as good as tlou2 and like a spit away from callisto protagonist...

You can fool 99 casuals out of 100 into believing that it's a real picture.

Yakuza must be the only series where secondary characters look better than the protagonist...

Dragon engine lowkey being wonderfull as usual.
I think Callisto looks better in most instances due to the lighting engine

The lighting in Dragon Engine is usualy not this realistic, but this shot is just perfection

And the model is 100% better than TLOU 2 (especially considering that the game doesnt have a native P5 app). Skin detail is leagues better.

But yeah, Naughty Dog animations are just on another league
 

alloush

Member
I swear, if they kill peter to let me play with fucking miles...
That would be so stupid and pissing off honestly but I dont think so. Seems like this game will be a huge one for Insomniac and one they've been working on for a while; let's see!
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
That would be so stupid and pissing off honestly but I dont think so. Seems like this game will be a huge one for Insomniac and one they've been working on for a while; let's see!
I just don't wanna play with miles, i don't give a flying fuck about his and his stupid voice.

But i have a bad feeling...
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
It will be interesting to see if they use the same exact face in the sequel. That will be our best indicator of whether or not insomniac is phoning in this game despite it being ps5 only.

That’s a ps4 face if i ever saw one. I expect it to look far better on the ps5. A brand new model.
 

Lethal01

Member
I just don't wanna play with miles, i don't give a flying fuck about his and his stupid voice.

But i have a bad feeling...

I'd kill them both to play as Miles from Into The Spiderverse. His story and personality is 10x more interesting than anything from the game.

I'd cancel this whole game to get an into the spider verse style game instead.
 
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Innovation in gaming? LOL. Yes the graphics are great but the gameplay (which is what counts) was terrible hence why it failed.
He was talking about the visuals. Didn't say anything about gameplay.

Sony f'd up canceling The Order sequel and taking Ready at Dawn and putting them on different projects. They beat Naughty Dog to the punch with that game. Mind blowing visuals at the time and it still holds up. I know why Sony doesn't update it for 4k/60- it would make a lot of recent games look bad.

The order and Uncharted 4 show me that we're not keeping pace this gen with what devs were doing last gen. At least in terms of ambition.
 
Sure they can...

They can download a cityscape skycraper set and a chaulky moonscape and some palm tree props and write a rather procedural relationship system for populating a globe model with these assets. That's plenty doable. The Matrix City Sample has a ways more accurate scale and nuanced level of detail / augmented replication, and that was just one stretch of one city. (Matrix of course was also a major production by the best in the business to show off this tech, but it's off the same playbook of how to use UE5.) It's assets and it's algorithms, and much of this "one dude"s work came from the work of a lot of other people (including, of course, the basic UE5 development suite itself.)

You're still raging against developers not delivering anything this long into the gen which holds up to the promise of the 2020 UE5 Unveiling (Lumen in the Land of Nanite.) I get it, that shit was cool and the wait has been unbearable; little homebrew kitbash projects meanwhile have been shown playing with UE5, and that stuff has made it even more painful to see what all seems so doable yet isn't happening in mainline games. Can't these teams of 500-1000 developers just do this?

...But realistically, these homebrewers aren't showing shit that developers don't already know. The assets are out there if you decide to go that route, the engine is available and its experimental tech is generally holding up better than even promised, and the basics are easier and cheaper than ever. But the hard part isn't just algorithmically dotting a map with content; the hard part is making the game. You need to diversify all the areas so that there's flow and style, so it doesn't just blend feel like one flat, bland surface. You need play systems, so that there's something to do in these open spaces. You of course need animations instead of the standard UE avatar, you need a camera system, you need lighting design beyond basic GI, you need customized props and landscapes and sounds and whatnot, you need to optimize it and fit it in an executeable that can be reasonably delivered without breaking a player's SSD bank... You need to do the real work.




There's a billion of these "Graphically INSANE UE5 demo" videos showing stuff people have been toying with... but look on Steam for any actual UE5 "games" and you still won't find much. There's Low Light Combat and Market of Light, "UE5 Shooter Game", demos for Stray Souls and The Wickie, Versus and Space Station 51 are in Early Access, other stuff, some Itch-IO shit (get ready for some PT clones...), a couple hacks of Lyra, but nothing like even the deluge of pennycandy apps you'd expect from a free release of a huge technology breakthrough, and nothing that actually in playable state holds up to any level of expected wow-factor seen in these "INSANE" demos.

All these kids in their basements and attics who can make "INSANE" demos can't actually produce a game, insane or otherwise. Even with off-the-shelf assets and generally available game blueprints/templates and an engine that practically doesn't choke anymore on kitbashing, you still rarely find even simple gamejam-type "Let's just throw shit in to look cool while they float around rings or something" projects playable. These folks, they know how to pick out really nice wallpaper; they don't know how to architect the house. (Or rather, some do know how to do that, but that's the hard stuff that takes time, and they haven't had that kind of time and resources to do it for real.) Stuff's out there to mess with, but nothing has released to demonstrate anything more than that we're still just on the cusp of where things are going.

Great post. The exciting thing to me is that if a single person can produce some of the above in only a few weeks or months then we can all froth at the mouth imagining what an award winning, experienced AAA dev team of 300 talented artists and programmers can create using the same / similar tech given three or four years.

Forspoken, FFXVI, Starfield and Spider-Man 2 are just the beginning!
 
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