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Greece has no money to pay the IMF, default imminent

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I

ICKE

Banned
Greece has no money to pay the IMF, Alexis Tsipras warned creditors

Prime minister wrote of imminent default days before tapping emergency IMF reserves

Two cash crises are about to come to a head in Greece, with signals that both the financial system and the public coffers are about to run dry.

Athens barely made its latest payment (May 12) to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), and it managed to do so only when the government discovered that it could use a reserve account it wasn't aware of, according to the Greek media.

Kathimerini, a Greek daily newspaper, reports that Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras wrote to the IMF's Christine Lagarde warning that Greece would not be able to make that May payment, worth €762 million ($871 million, £554.2 million).

Pension and civil-servant pay packets are due at the end of the month, and based on this news Athens may struggle to pay them. Even if it does manage that, on June 5 the country owes another €305 million to the IMF.

In the two weeks following June 5 there are another three payments, bringing the June total to the IMF to over €1.5 billion.

greek%20june%20payments%20hsbc.png


An internal IMF memo confirmed there has been little progress on negotiations to release €7.2bn in bail-out funds.

The IMF added there was “no possibility for the Greek authorities to repay” more than €11bn in obligations due over June and August without a release of emergency cash.

BusinessInsider
Telegraph
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So what should be done at this point? I just can't believe it has come to this as the economic forecasts were somewhat positive six months ago. Unbearable situation for so many people like pensioners who rely on these payments. The vast majority of Europeans are not willing to entertain the notion of debt forgiveness but we are running out of ideas here and we also need to avoid a humanitarian disaster.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
HOTDOG said:
REPORT: The European Commission just offered Greece a deal http://read.bi/1ILNk6D
Click to expand...

Heh. Knew this would happen. The rest of the Eurozone have put themselves in an odd position where they have to *sound* really angry and cross with Greece and out impossible burdens on them to try and appease their own electorates, and then on the quiet they're willing to agree to much more moderate terms provided nobody says anything too loudly, please and thank you.
 
R

RedShift

Member
I'm going to Greece in a few weeks. Cheap currency please.

Not really them leaving would probably be terrible for everyone.
 
G

gcubed

Member
The day when people finally accept that the money isn't coming back will be the day this brinkmanship stops.

They can't pay 1.5bn unless we give them more money. Seriously, if you are using loans from someone to pay for loans to that same person and they KNOW you are, then everyone needs to finally accept its not coming back
 
M

mingoguaya

Member
Souldestroyer Reborn said:
Just write the debt off already or cease the payments until they get back on their feet.

What a fucking joke this has turned out to be.
Click to expand...

My country (Puerto Rico) owes more than $70 billion.

We wish it was that easy to write off the debt or cease payments (and we are bound to our Constitution to pay debt first with our budget). BTW, for that budget for 2015-16 we are $1.8
billion dollars short. The government's answer? Hike the sales tax from 7% to 11.5% and tax services at a rate of 4%. Yeah we are WAY MORE FUCKED than Greece.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
mingoguaya said:
My country (Puerto Rico) owes more than $70 billion.

We wish it was that easy to write off the debt or cease payments (and we are bound to our Constitution to pay debt first with our budget). BTW, for that budget for 2015-16 we are $1.8
billion dollars short. The government's answer? Hike the sales tax from 7% to 11.5% and tax services at a rate of 4%. Yeah we are WAY MORE FUCKED than Greece.
Click to expand...

PR is not a country. It is a US territory.

Also, you guys fucked yourselves over the years borrowing and borrowing.
 
M

mingoguaya

Member
NeOak said:
PR is not a country. It is a US territory.
Also, you guys fucked yourselves over the years borrowing and borrowing.
Click to expand...

And how does this knowledge contributes to the topic....?

Edit for second sentence added later.

Yeah, that is the truth. To win elections, our leaders have made some of the worst decisions possible, without thinking about the outcome.
 
L

LUFTRAUSER

Banned
mingoguaya said:
And how does this knowledge contributes to the topic....?
Click to expand...
The somewhat nebulous connections of Puerto Rico to the US federal system -- much less weaker, for instance, than those of US states -- is perhaps somewhat similar to the more confederal structure of the European Union.
He is thus presumably seeking to illustrate a possible point of comparison to American readers of this thread that may not be familiar with the difficulties of EU debt politics.
 
S

Slayven

Member
mingoguaya said:
My country (Puerto Rico) owes more than $70 billion.

We wish it was that easy to write off the debt or cease payments (and we are bound to our Constitution to pay debt first with our budget). BTW, for that budget for 2015-16 we are $1.8
billion dollars short. The government's answer? Hike the sales tax from 7% to 11.5% and tax services at a rate of 4%. Yeah we are WAY MORE FUCKED than Greece.
Click to expand...

Goddamn
 
W

WARCOCK

Banned
Aztechnology said:
The Irony of Germany not wanting to forgive their debt is just too much.
Click to expand...

It's not ironic at all, big german and french banks own a huge amount of periphery debt on their balance sheets. This is about saving their banks and well essentially by that extent the european banking system through cash infusions brought on by their idiotic imposition of austerity.
 
M

mingoguaya

Member
NeOak said:
So I can't call things how they are?
Click to expand...

I answered to you in my edited post, but you are most definitely right in the fact that we let our leaders screw our selves with debt that has due date all the way up to the year 2057.

Eølipile;164380626 said:
The somewhat nebulous connections of Puerto Rico to the US federal system -- much less weaker, for instance, than those of US states -- is perhaps somewhat similar to the more confederal structure of the European Union.
He is thus presumably seeking to illustrate a possible point of comparison.
Click to expand...

I understand this and unfortunately our current status is the worst of both worlds. There is not much that can be done and our government does not want to make the government smaller and they rather hike taxes to pay for a government we CANNOT afford.
 
S

Souldestroyer Reborn

Banned
mingoguaya said:
My country (Puerto Rico) owes more than $70 billion.

We wish it was that easy to write off the debt or cease payments (and we are bound to our Constitution to pay debt first with our budget). BTW, for that budget for 2015-16 we are $1.8
billion dollars short. The government's answer? Hike the sales tax from 7% to 11.5% and tax services at a rate of 4%. Yeah we are WAY MORE FUCKED than Greece.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's not a great position to be in either.

Honestly though, it would be so much easier just to wipe the slate clean.
 
M

mingoguaya

Member
Souldestroyer Reborn said:
Yeah that's not a great position to be in either.

Honestly though, it would be so much easier just to wipe the slate clean.
Click to expand...

That would be amazing for everyone but the people that hold our bonds. How can we tell them that we cant pay after they already lent us the money? Just imagine for a second that you hold $1 million in bonds and a government comes to you like: "Hey I know you were expecting your money but guess what we are broke! So we can pay you... we're so sorry!" Our credibility will be fucked forever (it already almost is). So it sounds easy on paper, but it is not a feasible option. We have to pay somehow, someway. And that way is hiking up taxes.....
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
mingoguaya said:
I answered to you in my edited post, but you are most definitely right in the fact that we let our leaders screw our selves with debt that has due date all the way up to the year 2057.
Click to expand...

What if I told you that the true reason about all that borrowing and the death of section 936 was part of a PNP plot to make PR the poorest state of the union that would receive 20 billion more in aid from the federal government?

They can only get that if PR is accepted as a US state.

As for the PPD, they had to keep borrowing because the money was already gone when they won the elections and making budget cuts would have been political suicide.

mingoguaya said:
That would be amazing for everyone but the people that hold our bonds. How can we tell them that we cant pay after they already lent us the money? Just imagine for a second that you hold $1 million in bonds and a government comes to you like: "Hey I know you were expecting your money but guess what we are broke! So we can pay you... we're so sorry!" Our credibility will be fucked forever (it already almost is). So it sounds easy on paper, but it is not a feasible option. We have to pay somehow, someway. And that way is hiking up taxes.....
Click to expand...

The problem is your culture of wanting to be the most "badass" or "cabron".

That pride that people there boast when they evade taxes, they get welfare by doing cash only stuff, stealing water, electricity.

And lets not talk about the ones living on welfare that get electricity and water for a flat fee.
 
30yearsofhurt

30yearsofhurt

Member
Have to ditch the Euro.
Bring back the Drachma.
It is the only solution that makes sense.
It is the only solution that won't be looked at because that means admitting the Euro was a mistake for everyone outside of Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria and the low countries.
 
L

LUFTRAUSER

Banned
Honestly, I kind of want Greece to default because I have sort of a morbid political curiosity on what it would be like to watch the EU implode.
 
M

mingoguaya

Member
NeOak said:
What if I told you that the true reason about all that borrowing and the death of section 936 was part of a PNP plot to make PR the poorest state of the union that would receive 20 billion more in aid from the federal government?

They can only get that if PR is accepted as a US state.

As for the PPD, they had to keep borrowing because the money was already gone when they won the elections and making budget cuts would have been political suicide.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, Section 936 was doomed anyway and the PNP (such fools!!) let it die without some sort of new project to transition us (Project 30A was never a real option) and the PNP line of thought that we would be accepted as a poor state so we could get access to those 20 billion in aid was part of the problem. And they staged a couple of referendums just to make it seem as if they were advancing the cause of statehood, when in reality statehood must be granted from Congress and we as puertorricans cannot just "decide" to be a state and we will be incorporated.

Now as the PPD goes, they are not off the hook at all. Anibal Acevedo (a governor which was accused by the Federal government of corruption and had to hire lawyers at a rate of $1 million or more), he closed the government as a way of forcing the first sales tax (which was originally stated to be 5.5% but ended up being 7%).

So both parties have equally fucked Puerto Rico in the ass, but we still take it every 4 years and apparently we like it because we dont take kindly to any new alternative.



NeOak said:
The problem is your culture of wanting to be the most "badass" or "cabron".

That pride that people there boast when they evade taxes, they get welfare by doing cash only stuff, stealing water, electricity.

And lets not talk about the ones living on welfare that get electricity and water for a flat fee.
Click to expand...

Oh, I know a lawyer that declared $36,000 yearly income when I know for a fact that he raked in more than $500,000 on that same year. So its not only the poor who does it... almost everyone does regardless of social class.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
Eølipile;164383492 said:
Honestly, I kind of want Greece to default because I have sort of a morbid political curiosity on what it would be like to watch the EU implode.
Click to expand...
No need to hope for it, it's going to happen!

Mostly because of the underlying problem:
Randolph Freelander said:
What's the worst that could happen when you don't control your own currency.

I guess Europe will figure it out soon enough.
Click to expand...
 
J

JackBauer24

Member
Who were the bankers who gave Greece this "loan bailout"? Anyone with half a brain would know that Greece could never repay this debt. Their tax system is archaic at best and so many people cheat the system.
 
A

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
JackBauer24 said:
Who were the bankers who gave Greece this "loan bailout"? Anyone with half a brain would know that Greece could never repay this debt. Their tax system is archaic at best and so many people cheat the system.
Click to expand...

Oh, and troika-mandated, IMF-approved austerity actually sent primary surplus DOWN, because their policies were so idiotic they managed to undershoot their already incredibly low targets.

But sure, let's keep the fantastic tale of how "fiscal debauchness" nearly sent the EU up and how austerity saved the day! that's totally what happened.
 
I

ICKE

Banned
Greece 'in crisis' as officials insist deal is near

Greek government officials are insisting that a deal with the country's international lenders over reforms is imminent, but one key business leader told CNBC that Greece needs to implement reforms fast, whether a deal is on the cards or not.

"Greece is in a liquidity trap. We need to rectify the situation and agree on certain issues," Costantine Michalos, president of the Union of Hellenic Chambers of Commerce & Industry, told CNBC Tuesday.

"You don't need an agreement with your lenders and partners to improve your tax collecting mechanism, you don't need an agreement to improve your labor laws based on European norms on flexibility, and you don't need an agreement in order to proceed with privatizations," he added.

Deal 'very close'

Greek Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, on Monday ruled out further pension cuts, but said a list of proposals for an overhaul of the nation's VAT (sales tax) regime had been sent to lenders and he claimed a deal was imminent.
Speaking at a meeting of the Greek Industrial Federation Monday, Tsipras said Greece had tabled proposals for a "viable deal with creditors" and that the country was "in the final straight for an agreement."

CNBC
Click to expand...

What is the VAT situation in Greece at the moment? Are they planning to raise taxes on food products or increase scrutiny? In official European documents the estimations have been very high, apparently over 9 billion euros or so are lost as a result of tax evasion.
 
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