Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
And some resemblance of a proper market economy, which is utterly devastated in the case of Greece.
Also, the EU couldn't even remotely afford to bail out either country. Greece's comparative weight is tiny.
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Greece has no money to pay the IMF, default imminent
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And some resemblance of a proper market economy, which is utterly devastated in the case of Greece.
Also, the EU couldn't even remotely afford to bail out either country. Greece's comparative weight is tiny.
Then they would lose the ability to manipulate monetary conditions and lose any chance to gain a cooperative advantage. There is a reason why the gold standard was ditched long ago.
SecretSphere
Member
Wow, the monsters. Raising sales tax to 11.5%? Crazy. Oh wait, that's still way below average: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax#Tax_rates
CyclopsRock
Member
So? The cost of living - of buying everything - has gone up by almost 5% overnight. Annual inflation of 5% would be considered bad, but at least that comes with certain benefits. This just increases people's costs without stimulating businesses.
RandyBobandy
Banned
The sooner UK leave the EU the better. Ireland too hopefully
Sir_Crocodile
Member
no because crooks would shave the coins for the gold/silver.
IISANDERII
Member
Greece should sell half its land to Germany
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
Those people don't have 40 billion in liquidity.
I know, thats why I said "it doesn't work that way". Its just a thought. But there are still people out there who have a few billion in liquid.
Yeah, I hope Scotland leaves the UK soon too. UK splitting from the EU will make it collapse so fast and can only give more room for pro-EU people.
Why do you hate England?
As far as I can tell from the towels on the beach, they already own the entire coastline.
Are you kidding me? Please educate yourself if you think it's a good for Ireland to even fathom the idea of leaving the EU.
Ireland, which was in shambles before the EU bailed them out and made the country what it is today?
Orbis Tabula
Member
This is crazy. I don't know enough about economy to really comment, but it's fascinating. I'll have to do some research and learn what everyone is talking about. I hope the people of Greece come out of this alright.
Wow really..I have many words that could be used to respond to this statement, but I will refrain as it is not worth my time.
Well if they were to leave the EU and bring back the drachma, tourism would boom even more there.
I get this funny feeling that Greece was victim of geopolitical interests/games which led it to where it is now.
=/
onadesertedisland
Member
So does austerity work?
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
Greece got to where it is now by cooking its books to join a currency union that it had no business being apart of and then taking advantage of the creation of the Euro and the cheap interest rates that it brought to accumulate massive amounts of debt with no means to print money to bail itself out of that debt.
Bigboss242
Banned
They should default. Why borrow money to pay when they will never have enough to pay it back yet again. Going to become a global issue eventually. The united states has trillions one day we might be asked to pay up. Luckily we have the reserve currency but this cannot be paid off in my life time. We opted to live a better now at the expense of future generations. Unless we write off this global debt we are all in trouble.
Corrupt politicians who were being bribed by whom?
And secondly many European countries had "cooked" numbers going into the EU.
Thirdly,
You could also say the olympics is a great honor to host, but it potentially bankrupts any country that does not have a high enough GDP.
Lastly,
Check out this great article for some juicy tidbits.
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16834815
Read more about France and Germany below..
Here.. Read the other linked article.
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16761087
Cheers
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
What are you talking about? What do you mean one day pay up? Who are you that we owe trillions to on callable debt? Please get at least a semblance of a clue of what you're talking about.
Yeah, but the 1% of the world (U.S. 1% as well) make a put load of money off U.S. being in debt.
jamieson87
Member
If default does happen, how soon should it happen now?
I feel like we've been skirting around the issue for weeks now.
I feel like we've been skirting around the issue for weeks now.
ClosingADoor
Member
America owes America money mostly. After that China and Japan. Nobody is going to ask the US to 'pay up' since they live of trade with the US and need it to have that money to buy their stuff.
Yep. However, in a century or two, that might change, well if people are around that is.
Here is a link that breaks it down sort of.
http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/rich-countries/top-countries-the-u-s-owes-money-to/
Earthstrike
Member
Just invested about 10k in europe. I'm banking on there being too many moneyed interests to allow greece to default, i.e. their repayment terms are further relaxed.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
NO.
They can't ask to pay up because those aren't the terms. There's specified terms for repayment, you can't just change them just because. The US isn't suckering countries into getting free loans they never have to pay back. People really need to learn basic finance.
You think cooking the books is how they got in? I mean, it's insane that people still believe this shit.
Edit: The real story is that they and many others were fooled into joining this fucking sham of a union.
I hope that was your entertainment cash.
Nick Laslett
Member
The UK was the largest individual external contributor to the Irish bailout, along with Ireland itself. The UK is Ireland's biggest trading partner, followed by the U.S.
Citations
Trading Data
http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/externaltrade/maintradingpartners-2011m/
https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/irl/
Bailout Facts
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/11/what_the_uk_is_contributing_to.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-11766346
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-taxpayers-funded-Irelands-14bn-bail-out.html
Edited with better data source.
And remember that a proportion of the IMF and EU money is also funded by UK as a contributor to these organisations. (See above edit)
Who is Greece's equivalent to UK in this situation?
ClosingADoor
Member
Well yeah, that too. But in the highly unlikely case the US can't pay, they can borrow more money because those countries themselves can't afford to let the US go broke. And the debt is in dollars, so you can print more, something Greece can't because of the euro.
Earthstrike
Member
I can hold for the long run and I knew the risk while investing. The worst case scenario is that I have to hold this position for about 10-20 years instead of say five if greece and the IMF reach an agreement. It's not like the european economy is going to enter a permanent slump.
And to think that I'm paranoid now with my investment of like 6k into vwenx (balanced stock) through deferred comp lol.
I feel like I've been reading the same story for years now. This Euro middle ground where countries can't devalue their currency, but also can't rely on strong fiscal stimulus is the worst of both worlds. Default and leave the union, or properly bail them out without making them conform to awful austerity restrictions. No more half measures
Ok I get that perspective. Investing while we're still at an age to hold usually works out in regions as developed as the EU or America.
No, Greece is to blame for the trouble it is in.
It seems to work in quite a bit of countries. It doesn't seem to work in the country that is trying everything but actual austerity at the moment. The situation now exists because Tsipiras doesn't want to do what the EU is asking.
Vorg
Banned
LOL. It exists because they've had 300.000 people without access to electricity for not being able to afford it due to austerity. They don't want more austerity because they have people starving without jobs and without access to medical care in Greece. They've tried austerity and that was the result.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Nonono, see, he said true austerity. You can tell Greece isn't using that, because that works. They must be using some kind of off-brand austerity that they got from the discount shopping mart.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Would the UK leaving change very much? They're not a part of the Eurozone anyway.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Serious Question (and sorry if it has been brought up): Has Greece thought about selling one/several of its island territories?
Couldn't the US buy a few islands to make some military bases. Just to fuck with Putin. Have some really nice missle silos to make the ones in Turkey feel less lonely.
A medium sized island in Greece would have to be a few billions worth at least?
Or am I overestimating the value of land?
Fuck man. A island like Santorino is awesome. Turning that into a military industrial complex institution could make for some really nice post cards.
I... I'm completely out of any real ideas. If the Euro goes to shit, our own currencies will fall, because they are connected. We need economic stability not people leaving. Can't outside companies just buy influence in Greece? When Portugal was in trouble the brazillians bought a ton of infrastructure, companies and so on. It gives less growth on the long term, but you gotta fix the crisis before you think about the long term.
Couldn't the US buy a few islands to make some military bases. Just to fuck with Putin. Have some really nice missle silos to make the ones in Turkey feel less lonely.
A medium sized island in Greece would have to be a few billions worth at least?
Or am I overestimating the value of land?
Fuck man. A island like Santorino is awesome. Turning that into a military industrial complex institution could make for some really nice post cards.
I... I'm completely out of any real ideas. If the Euro goes to shit, our own currencies will fall, because they are connected. We need economic stability not people leaving. Can't outside companies just buy influence in Greece? When Portugal was in trouble the brazillians bought a ton of infrastructure, companies and so on. It gives less growth on the long term, but you gotta fix the crisis before you think about the long term.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
I don't see it being a bad thing that Greece defaults. They should have done so ages ago instead of prolonging the inevitable as they have been the last few years. If there's a Grexit, they should have more wiggle room to fix themselves rather than constantly paying out to these under capitalized banks that don't seem to have exercised proper due diligence in the first place when giving loans to Greece.
In the meantime, I could see Greece opening trade with Russia, and possibly allowing a Russian pipeline through the country where they could collect a fair bit of revenue from storage and shipment costs as a step in fixing the Greek economy after.
In the meantime, I could see Greece opening trade with Russia, and possibly allowing a Russian pipeline through the country where they could collect a fair bit of revenue from storage and shipment costs as a step in fixing the Greek economy after.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
UK != England
Also to add to the topic, Greece is in the position it's in because of countries like Germany/France selling them down the river, along with agreeing to their demands in the first place.
Saying they haven't 'properly' tried austerity is bullshit. I'm sure there a plenty of people in Greece who are more than willing to contest that.
PdotMichael
Banned
The problem is that Greece never had a sustainable economy to fall back after the end of the bubble unlike the other PIGS states. And iceland was smart enough to put their focus on renewable energy after the crisis.
There is no easy solution for that country - being corrupt (see the shipping companies) and inefficient (taxes) don't help either.
And it was also in a way deeper hole. And yes, that chart ends at the moment Tsipiras came on while I said they're refusing to pay Greece because Tsipiras doesn't want austerity.
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