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[Coriolanus]

What is the VAT situation in Greece at the moment? Are they planning to raise taxes on food products or increase scrutiny?

Doubt they'd be THAT stupid, given how much the living standards there have already dropped.

 

[xenist]

Have to ditch the Euro.
Bring back the Drachma.
It is the only solution that makes sense.
It is the only solution that won't be looked at because that means admitting the Euro was a mistake for everyone outside of Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria and the low countries.

Relevant username.

Also, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Have to ditch the Euro.
Bring back the Drachma.
It is the only solution that makes sense.
It is the only solution that won't be looked at because that means admitting the Euro was a mistake for everyone outside of Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria and the low countries.

Switzerland?

 

[Sioen]

Switzerland?

Probably another american.

 

[oti]

Switzerland?

Ah yes, the Swiss Euro coins are especially beautiful and very very rare to find.

 

[Relix]

The problem is your culture of wanting to be the most "badass" or "cabron".

That pride that people there boast when they evade taxes, they get welfare by doing cash only stuff, stealing water, electricity.

And lets not talk about the ones living on welfare that get electricity and water for a flat fee.

I know this off topic...

This is my main beef with most puertoricans. They pride themselves on cheating the system, of not paying for things and getting everything free. The people have dug their own graves themselves. PR will be the next default, I am anxious for it to happen and see if the people will do something more for their country.

Or they will take a plane off to Orland or NYC.

 

[Sylver]

Soon the world assumes not a single EU country will leave EU the better, before this happens some other countries will join the euro or the union.
And I'm one of those who want us spaniards to leave.

 

[diffusionx]

Have to ditch the Euro.
Bring back the Drachma.
It is the only solution that makes sense.
It is the only solution that won't be looked at because that means admitting the Euro was a mistake for everyone outside of Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria and the low countries.

This is all true.

 

[Sylver]

This is all true.

not sure if serious but to begin with
Switzerland not only is not part of eurozone is not even EU member.

 

[Arkanius]

Time to introduce hats in the Greek economy

 

[GameGuru59]

Bad for Europe. Good for America (sort of).

 

[Arkanius]

To be honest, every other IMF aided coutry has managed to rebound. Greece is a special case, they should quit the Euro right now, they need a currency that they can control and devalue

 

[shira]

Time to introduce hats in the Greek economy

Captainamerica.gif

 

[Coriolanus]

To be honest, every other IMF aided coutry has managed to rebound. Greece is a special case, they should quit the Euro right now, they need a currency that they can control and devalue

The view on that depends entirely on how you qualify a rebound. Still very little in the way of evidence to show if their recovery was caused by austerity or in spite of austerity.

 

[Arkanius]

The view on that depends entirely on how you qualify a rebound. Still very little in the way of evidence to show if their recovery was caused by austerity or in spite of austerity.

As a Portuguese... a bit of both.
The austerity worked in some places, failed in others, and I feel the Small and Medium sized companies managed to do amazingly well by increasing their Exports despite the adversities.

 

[Aureon]

To be honest, every other IMF aided coutry has managed to rebound. Greece is a special case, they should quit the Euro right now, they need a currency that they can control and devalue

Pretty much all countries under IMF austerity programs have undershoot targets and previsions set by the very same IMF, to the point where many officials have come forward to admit that austerity was a mistake.

Greece is simply the worst positioned of the bunch, but in no way an outlier on the outcomes of austerity.

 

[WARCOCK]

Pretty much all countries under IMF austerity programs have undershoot targets and previsions set by the very same IMF, to the point where many officials have come forward to admit that austerity was a mistake.

Greece is simply the worst positioned of the bunch, but in no way an outlier on the outcomes of austerity.

To be fair the IMF kind of realized that what the troika set in motion was fucking retarded early on, and there were voices of reason within it. They just didn't have the clout to convince the ECB, Germany and EU cunts to adopt a different course.

The view on that depends entirely on how you qualify a rebound. Still very little in the way of evidence to show if their recovery was caused by austerity or in spite of austerity.

That is not true. If you plot the depth of cuts vs depth of GDP contraction over time since the austerity measures have been imposed on greece you get an R squared of like .92. I don't remember the specifics but can look them up if you want.

 

[Jay Sosa]

Athens barely made its latest payment (May 12) to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), and it managed to do so only when the government discovered that it could use a reserve account it wasn't aware of, according to the Greek media.

What a competent government.

To be honest, every other IMF aided coutry has managed to rebound. Greece is a special case, they should quit the Euro right now, they need a currency that they can control and devalue

From what I've read this would make things even worse.

Greece could return to the drachma?

Going back to the drachma would shock the Greek economy[2]:
Before the swap with the drachmas, people would have rushed to withdraw their euros from Greek banks. It is called a bank run. (It would have to be prevented by a long bank holiday.)
Greece will have to default on its Treasury bonds previously issued in euros. (Greece would then be discredited and unable to borrow abroad.)
Inflation will spike due to the multiplication of drachmas. (Greek Treasury bonds will be purchased in drachma created ex nihilo by the Greek Central Bank.)
The drachma would be devalued. (Due to its massive multiplication and its discredit, the drachma will go into free fall on currency markets.)

After the initial shock, the economy will keep on plunging.
Corporation importing and indebted in euros may go bust.
The regular economy may shrink even more due to a shift of economic entities to the underground economy (possibly trading with euro banknotes).
Oil and gas shortages may derail the economy even more. (Due to spiking gas prices, delivery issues, bankrupt truck companies, gas may not reach consumers easily.)
More inflation due to prices of imports spiking after the devaluation, and to the shrinking supply. (Inflation will reach 10% or more.)

After a few years, the situation may start to improve.
Tourism may increase with the cheap drachma, but it won’t happen unless the public services are restored.
Corporations may restart exporting thanks to a cheap drachma. (However, it won’t be easy to import parts paid in euros.)

Eventually, Greece could face more difficulties than the austerity measures imposed by Germany.

http://blog.findtheflaw.com/topics/if-greece-goes-back-to-the-drachma/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102474866

 

[Omega Kirby]

So what's the worst that could happen?

 

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

Maybe Greece should modernize their economy and give everyone a social identification number and tax them accordingly instead of sending out fucking tax collectors like the medieval ages.

 

[WARCOCK]

Maybe Greece should modernize their economy and give everyone a social identification number and tax them accordingly instead of sending out fucking tax collectors like the medieval ages.

Yes and how do you suppose they can implement this if they are forced to cut into oblivion.

 

[Fenderputty]

Just print more money.

Not sure if you're serious or not, but that's kinda the point of fiat currency. Though when the supply is constrained by political forces outside ones country that sorta kills the point. The euro should either break up, or the people that use he euro should create a unified nation with unified political interests. Neither are anything close to likely.

 

[Mxrz]

I'm still confused how the EU thought letting individual countries borrow with/against the EU's credit with no EU oversight was any sort of good idea.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Greece really needs to just give up on the Euro and go back to their own currency. All this dilly dallying is only prolonging the inevitable. Their economy will never be suitable for the Euro.

Embrace the change, it might be difficult but it needs to be done now not later.

 

[Fenderputty]

Yes and how do you suppose they can implement this if they are forced to cut into oblivion.

Pull up their wingstaps.

 

[Xando]

Greece really needs to just give up on the Euro and go back to their own currency. All this dilly dallying is only prolonging the inevitable. Their economy will never be suitable for the Euro.

Embrace the change, it might be difficult but it needs to be done now not later.

Pretty much my position.
The rest of the EZ is starting to rebound, we should just accept that the current greek system is not competitive enough to stay in the EZ.

 

[WARCOCK]

I'm still confused how the EU thought letting individual countries borrow with/against the EU's credit with no EU oversight was any sort of good idea.

The Euro was kind of established on questionable pretenses ranging from idealism to politics rather than feasibility and economic common sense.

Pull up their wingstaps.

Srsly, the greeks invented wingstraps before democracy even.

 

[jelly]

Maybe Greece should modernize their economy and give everyone a social identification number and tax them accordingly instead of sending out fucking tax collectors like the medieval ages.

Holy crap, is that actually true ?

 

[ClosingADoor]

I thought IMF debt was paid back in like decades and such, not just a few years. A country isn't going anywhere, spread that stuff out.

 

[NeOak]

I thought IMF debt was paid back in like decades and such, not just a few years. A country isn't going anywhere, spread that stuff out.

When you have several thousands of millions in debts, the payments are in millions anyway.

 

[Embearded]

Holy crap, is that actually true ?

No its not.
The problem with our tax system is different.

 

[GhostWriter24]

Greece should just visit the Iron Bank of Braavos.

 

[Darkangel]

Goddamn

Sales tax in Nova Scotia is 15%.

The struggle is real.

 

[orochi91]

EU needs to stop bullying Greece.

Poor bastards :/

 

[Embearded]

Sales tax in Nova Scotia is 15%.

The struggle is real.

23% in Greece! I guess we need to increase it in order to pay our debts....

 

[WalkMan]

I have a better idea. Just rename it to Israel 2 and BAM!! Instant 3B USD on their behalf.

So aid them $3B on the condition that they spend it on defense? Or are you just spewing stuff

 

[kiguel182]

21% in Greece! I guess we need to increase it in order to pay our debts....

Well, it's 23 per cent in Portugal for non-essential stuff. So yeah.

 

[Slayven]

Sales tax in Nova Scotia is 15%.

The struggle is real.

I thought it was tough factoring 8%

 

[Kuga]

It's painful, but defaulting and rebuilding a more feasible economy with a non-EU monetary system seems preferable to the crushing debt and austerity measures that will haunt the country indefinitely.

I sincerely hope that Greek citizens are shielded from some of the fallout - they don't deserve this sort of economic devastation caused by their government and the EU.

 

[kitch9]

If they leave it will start an avalanche that will hurt all of Europe.

The big economies of the EU are just sucking the shit out of the little guys anyway.

That's good apparently because everyone wins.

Or something.

 

[Embearded]

Well, it's 23 per cent in Portugal for non-essential stuff. So yeah.

Its 23% in Greece too, sorry my bad.

Non essential is a fucking joke! Ok its 11% for food but what about soap for example?
Also, they should tell us the definition of essential. If they mean what we need in order to get on our feet every morning and produce for their fat asses, yes only food is essential.

 

[thechristoph]

A country isn't going anywhere, spread that stuff out.

This is going to sound really stupid, but I wonder what kind of financial disaster it would take for a country to cease being a country.

 

[Damaniel]

This is going to sound really stupid, but I wonder what kind of financial disaster it would take for a country to cease being a country.

I'm not sure that there is one. The worst case of hyperinflation ever recorded (the Hungarian peng&#337 didn't end Hungary, nor did Zimbabwe's hyperinflation end it. Countries will generally always keep on going regardless of economic circumstances - the quality of life of its citizens isn't always guaranteed to be great though.

 

[LoveCake]

I feel sorry for the Greek people, as they are NOT to blame, the people that are to blame are the original Greek politicians that took Greece into the Euro & then racked up huge debts because they then had low bond rates, why these people have not been brought to justice is beyond me, they should at least be charged with fraud & treason, what they did was criminal.

However, i am interested to see how it is going to end, it is one hell of a game of brinksmanship.

 

[ICKE]

IMF Halts Its Bailout Talks With Greece Amid Lack of Progress

The International Monetary Fund said it was halting bailout talks with Greece in a stark signal of its exasperation about a lack of progress toward a deal to avert a Greek default, as European leaders suggested negotiations were nearing their endgame.

“There are major differences between us in most key areas,” said IMF spokesman Gerry Rice in an unusual public statement aimed at heightening pressure on the left-wing government of Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras.

“There has been no progress in narrowing these differences recently,” he said. “Thus, we are well away from an agreement.” He added that the IMF team negotiating with Greece had been pulled out of Brussels, though the fund remained ready to resume talks. “The ball is very much in Greece’s court right now,” he said.

Greece needs a deal to unlock aid before the end of the month when it is otherwise set to default on a 1.6 billion euro ($1.8 billion) repayment to the Washington-based IMF.

That could trigger capital controls and possibly push Greece out of the euro zone, with unpredictable consequences for financial markets and the European economy.

-Reuters
-WSJ

It doesn't look too good at the moment. I think we are going through the rabbit hole.

 

[Savitar]

Unless Greece is taken care of repeatedly it's going to happen.

Everyone knows they don't got the cash to keep going.

 

[Drifters]

So this basically fucks the EU.. and then in turn fucks the rest of the world right? Can't wait.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

This really sucks for the EU.

Spain and/or Italy could be next.

 

[Frankfurter]

Why would Spain and Italy be next? They have incredibly low interest rates on their bonds.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

This is going to fuck up all markets. I hate globalization.