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[Flatbread]

I like greg K reviews in general, he takes it seriously and is level headed.

My issue is these two reviews in particular and the level of difficulty he played it at. Being an experienced gamer when I see 4 or 5 levels of difficulty I choose the one below the highest. If the game has 3 levels then i choose the middle. In general I think this will best match my playing skill with the opponent and give me the best experience.

When I played brute force I constantly used the skills of the four guys and found the ai to be quite good and tough. Several sections would have been alarmingly tough if I had not done that. Yet greg k in his reviews said you never needed to do that, (having played some of the levels later on normal I agree with him) and led me to believe that he blew by the game in normal mode which is quite easy for an experienced gamer.

In his halo 2 review he said the game is too short, Im playing it on heroic and finding the game is quite good in length, im dying frequently and will take me 15 hours plus to complete at my present rate. If I had chose the normal length I would be apt to agree with him, but knowing my skill level I immediately went above it to give myself a good challenge. Now some of my friends who play games casually died often on normal in halo, and had trouble completing many of its parts, I could see them struggling mightly on normal, and the length of the game would be much longer then the 8 hours that some of you are reporting.


Now I know most gamers play at normal, but most gamers dont have the skills of me or greg k who reviews games for gamespot. Wont the length be much longer for most gamers because they have to repeat areas much more? I know its the case for me on heroic. He doesnt seem to take this to account in his reviews and i had much different experiences then he did because I matched my skill level more appropiately.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I played Halo 2 on heroic and I still didn't like the campaign. However, nothing that I disliked would have changed based upon difficulty level. The weapon system and mechanics would still be top notch, while the level design would have still irked me and the plot would always be a kick to my crotch.

Normal is where the core game should be, in any game. If it wasn't, then it shouldn't be called normal. If you're a game reviewer and you suspect that your skill level is rendering the game too easy for you, then you need to be objective and view the game from a less experienced perspective. If there is time, play in multiple difficulties to get a better feel.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Well, I won't really touch on the reviews or Brute Force for that matter but I'll reiterate a point I made yesterday regarding Halo 2. The default difficulty in Halo 2 is just way too damn easy. Playing on normal doesn't even feel right. Heroic should've been the default, imo. On heroic, the enemies are smarter, more numerous, more ferocious, and generally more unpredictable. It makes the whole single player experience much, much more enjoyable.

 

[Flatbread]

I played Halo 2 on heroic and I still didn't like the campaign. However, nothing that I disliked would have changed based upon difficulty level. The weapon system and mechanics would still be top notch, while the level design would have still irked me and the plot would always be a kick to my crotch.

Normal is where the core game should be, in any game. If it wasn't, then it shouldn't be called normal. If you're a game reviewer and you suspect that your skill level is rendering the game too easy for you, then you need to be objective and view the game from a less experienced perspective. If there is time, play in multiple difficulties to get a better feel.

isnt one of the reasons of giving 4 difficulty levels is to get away from the mentality of a core game that matches all playing skills? I was strictly talking about the length of the game as a complaint in his halo 2 review, not anything else.

 

[Rhindle]

Excellent post, I couldn't agree more.

I also do not understand people who pick up a game and rush through at break-neck speed, choosing the shortest possible path and a dumbed down difficulty setting -- all in order to be able to whine and moan about how short a game it is. You know who you are, and you only have yourself to blame if you are getting value for your money. It's pretty sad that some people get more satisfaction out of complaining (or bragging) about their completion time than they do from taking the time to explore, experiment and truly experience a game.

 

[teepo]

STOP ASSUMING WHAT LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY HE PLAYED IT AT SHESH

 

[Flatbread]

STOP ASSUMING WHAT LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY HE PLAYED IT AT SHESH

I question him saying the game is short, when im finding it to be good length for an action game (approximately 15 hours). In my post you will see that im not finding the same things he is when playing these games, although I dont know it my guess is that he played it on normal.

I could be wrong, but more importantly is why the descrepency. These forums are now littered with halo negatives of the campaign is to short, and greg k synapses says the campaign is short, im not finding that to be the case.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

isnt one of the reasons of giving 4 difficulty levels is to get away from the mentality of a core game that matches all playing skills?

Yeah, but there is a lowest common denominator of skill and there is a setting that has always been called an approximation of normal. These are supposed to go together.

If a reviewer claims that a game is too easy or short on normal, then we have to hope that they are being responsible and taking into account their own skill level, if above average.

 

[teepo]

I question him saying the game is short, when im finding it to be good length for an action game (approximately 15 hours). In my post you will see that im not finding the same things he is when playing these games, although I dont know it my guess is that he played it on normal.

I could be wrong, but more importantly is why the descrepency. These forums are now littered with halo negatives of the campaign is to short, and greg k synapses says the campaign is short, im not finding that to be the case.

i beat the game at around 10 hours on heoric. maybe 12. that's pretty damn short.

 

[DCharlie]

For Halo 2, they need to split out the score into two

A score for people who will NEVER play multiplayer (9.0)
A score for people who will play the game on line (9.8)

or maybe that's what they did , and said, "HEY lets average that out" ?

 

[TTP]

I agree with all has been said.

Yet, I think part of the problem are the developers themselves. I don't like when I'm given the option of which difficulty level to play. If I choose the easy/normal one from the beginning I'm afraid to miss the most of the enjoyment. If I choose the hard/very hard fram the beginning one I'm afraid to be kicked in the ass 'cos I'm "not ready yet".

Best solution is to just have a well calibrated difficulty curve. Look at Mario, Metroid or Zelda. None of them has a difficulty level setting. That's how I like games to present themselves.

 

[LukeSmith]

STOP ASSUMING WHAT LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY HE PLAYED IT AT SHESH

Not an assumption. Bungie said that all the reviewers played the game on normal who were brought out to the this review site. (It was in one of their weekly updates).
Stop yelling.

 

[Amir0x]

For Halo 2, they need to split out the score into two

A score for people who will NEVER play multiplayer (9.0)
A score for people who will play the game on line (9.8)

or maybe that's what they did , and said, "HEY lets average that out" ?

I'd slant the score even more.

A score for people who will NEVER play multiplayer (8.0)
A score for people who will play the game on line (9.8)

 

[DCharlie]

"I'd slant the score even more.

A score for people who will NEVER play multiplayer (8.0)
A score for people who will play the game on line (9.8)"

i'd add a proviso to that...
i'd say the first half of the SP is a 9.5, but the second half is an 8.0

I thing 8.0 for SP would be incredibly harsh.
Imagine if this was a brand new game , or a PS2 new release... it would easily be in the 9's.

 

[Andy787]

I'd slant the score even more.

A score for people who will NEVER play multiplayer (8.0)
A score for people who will play the game on line (9.8)

I'd slant the score even more

A score for people who will NEVER play multiplayer (5.5)
A score for people who will play the game on line (9.5)

 

[border]

I wouldn't have any major problems except that Kasavin isn't really consistent with what he has said in the past. In other games, he specifically mentions that higher difficulty modes add to replay value -- but not so with Halo 2 (which has co-op and higher difficulties to encourage extended play). In other reviews, 10 hours is "standard length for an action game", but it's not enough for Halo 2...

 

[DCharlie]

"A score for people who will NEVER play multiplayer (5.5)"

oh PLEASE that is HORSESHIT and you know it.

 

[DCharlie]

"I wouldn't have any major problems except that Kasavin isn't really consistent with what he has said in the past."

what gets me about his Xbox reviews is that he starts with negatives and then ends with a mild good point.

e.g. (paraphrasing)

"You can create games in multiplayer that don't work and are totally pointless - but you can create your own games"

it's big negative, followed by almost apologetic sounding positives. I have no qualms with his score, but the review text of Xbox games on GS just stink.

 

[Andy787]

"A score for people who will NEVER play multiplayer (5.5)"

oh PLEASE that is HORSESHIT and you know it.

Hahaha, can't accept another person's opinion, eh? Well, maybe I'll make a thread tomorrow and better explain myself, that should be entertaining. But right now I'm too tired :'(

 

[Amir0x]

i'd add a proviso to that...
i'd say the first half of the SP is a 9.5, but the second half is an 8.0

I thing 8.0 for SP would be incredibly harsh.
Imagine if this was a brand new game , or a PS2 new release... it would easily be in the 9's.

I think that while harsh, it's appropriate. The single player campaign actually adds very little new to the Halo formula, and overall is fairly generic. It has impressive cinematic qualities and definitely knows how to build a climax, but it fails to hold up its end of the bargain with its build up. Similarly, while the level of repetition in levels has definitely been improved over Halo 1, it's still lacking in a fundmental area of artistic direction and design (layout), something a game like Metroid Prime (although admittedly focusing much more on closed in areas) has perfected.

 

[DCharlie]

"Hahaha, can't accept another person's opinion, eh? Well, maybe I'll make a thread tomorrow and better explain myself, that should be entertaining. But right now I'm too tired :'("

he he. I have more than a fair share of qualms about single player, i found it disappointing in all, but to call it a *slightly* above average game or more precisely, a 5.5 on GS game is just absolutel horse shite! come now.... have a look at the calibre of games that score 5.5....


You are placing this in the same bracket of Knights apprentice, Dukes of Hazard, Driv3r,

Is Halo 2 really in there???

 

[DCharlie]

"The single player campaign actually adds very little new to the Halo formula, and overall is fairly generic"


my beef is that it does add to the formula

Spoiler

for the first 5 stages, right up until the ruins level, then it just basically becomes Halo 1

and as a result is disappointing.


However, whilst it's disappointing, to say that it's an average game or generic would be way wide of the mark IMO.

Generic, especially, would be harsh - what are you comparing to ? I'm a big FPS PC buff and i still think it knocks most PC FPS into a cocked hat.

"but it fails to hold up its end of the bargain with its build up'

Partially agreed on this... it holds up it's end of the bargain until

Spoiler

the ruins level and then it's like they ran out of time. The direction in which the story has went is particularly worrying

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

I think that while harsh, it's appropriate. The single player campaign actually adds very little new to the Halo formula, and overall is fairly generic. It has impressive cinematic qualities and definitely knows how to build a climax, but it fails to hold up its end of the bargain with its build up. Similarly, while the level of repetition in levels has definitely been improved over Halo 1, it's still lacking in a fundmental area of artistic direction and design (layout), something a game like Metroid Prime (although admittedly focusing much more on closed in areas) has perfected.

Funny you bring Metroid into this right after complaining about the Story.....cause you know Metroid's Story oWNZ ALL STORIES!

GOTTA LOVE THAT HOT LOCK ON ACTION TOO BABY!!!

i need to use DCharlie's "HORSE SHIT" in the "artistic direction and design (layout) comment about how halo's isnt perfect and metroid's is.

 

[LukeSmith]

Funny you bring Metroid into this right after complaining about the Story.....cause you know Metroid's Story oWNZ ALL STORIES!

GOTTA LOVE THAT HOT LOCK ON ACTION TOO BABY!!!

i need to use DCharlie's "HORSE SHIT" in the "artistic direction and design (layout) comment about how halo's isnt perfect and metroid's is.

Don't forget the amazing stories are being told by SCANNING THINGS WITH THE VISOR.


scanning is the new storytelling.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

i dont know, the levels oppossed to the ones you speak greatly of DC seem pretty good to me and they bring you out to an Open area afterwards.....i mean.

Spoiler

there were only like 2 levels i can think of that describe what your talking about. the part where u first become the arbitor, and then the return to the library, but other than that, everything is out in the Open. and I think its good they put in those 2 levels, it adds balance.....imo.

peace

 

[Amir0x]

Funny you bring Metroid into this right after complaining about the Story.....cause you know Metroid's Story oWNZ ALL STORIES!

GOTTA LOVE THAT HOT LOCK ON ACTION TOO BABY!!!

i need to use DCharlie's "HORSE SHIT" in the "artistic direction and design (layout) comment about how halo's isnt perfect and metroid's is.

I'm not surprised that you lack the capacity to appreciate quiet, understated player-driven storylines, but let me elaborate on my position.

First of all, I only heralded Metroid Prime's superior level design and artistic direction, and said nothing about its storyline. If you can't seperate one compliment about a game from another, that is not my problem.

Secondly, if we must discuss Metroid Prime's storyline, then I'm game. Metroid Prime's story was all about reward for effort, something Halo can't even begin to comprehend. You mock the games intelligent scan system, yet if you participated in it it not only revealed an engrossing and appropriately desperate storyline, but it also lent itself to the feeling of isolation and intensity that makes Metroid games so great. However, I am not going to hate on your opinion since obviously this is not for everyone. What makes Metroid Prime great is hardly the storyline, after all.

But yes, in terms of artistic direction of level layout there is virtually no competition whatsoever. Metroid Prime's levels are filled with organic, brilliantly laid out sub sectors and caverns. Every inch of the levels ooze with artistic competence and frankly harkens to a sort of genre mastery that we rarely get to see in gaming. Halo 2's levels are vast and impressive in their own right, but are lacking in the sort of close attention to detail and wildly imaginative layout that Metroid Prime is. In Metroid Prime, nearly every last part is filled with secrets for you to find, a door to be opened later, a tunnel to reach further down the line. It is this sort of ingenuity that lends itself to Metroid Prime's superior single player, and to me it's no competition.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

I'm not surprised that you lack the capacity to appreciate quiet, understated player-driven storylines, but let me elaborate on my position.

First of all, I only heralded Metroid Prime's superior level design and artistic direction, and said nothing about its storyline. If you can't seperate one compliment about a game from another, that is not my problem.

Secondly, if we must discuss Metroid Prime's storyline, then I'm game. Metroid Prime's story was all about reward for effort, something Halo can't even begin to comprehend. You mock the games intelligent scan system, yet if you participated in it it not only revealed an engrossing and appropriately desperate storyline, but it also lent itself to the feeling of isolation and intensity that makes Metroid games so great. However, I am not going to hate on your opinion since obviously this is not for everyone. What makes Metroid Prime great is hardly the storyline, after all.

But yes, in terms of artistic direction of level layout there is virtually no competition whatsoever. Metroid Prime's levels are filled with organic, brilliantly laid out sub sectors and caverns. Every inch of the levels ooze with artistic competence and frankly harkens to a sort of genre mastery that we rarely get to see in gaming. Halo 2's levels are vast and impressive in their own right, but are lacking in the sort of close attention to detail and wildly imaginative layout that Metroid Prime is. In Metroid Prime, nearly every last part is filled with secrets for you to find, a door to be opened later, a tunnel to reach further down the line. It is this sort of ingenuity that lends itself to Metroid Prime's superior single player, and to me it's no competition.

ROOFLECOPTERS

you're a funny guy.

<Edit>

honestly I dont feel like battling it out cause its 5 am and I am tired as hell, so im gonna just let gamespot NUMBERS do the talking

Halo 9.7 = metroid prime 9.7

halo 2 9.4 > metroid prime 9.1

OOOOH GAMESPOT-OWNED.......SCORE #s REALLY DO MATTER. YOU AM CRYING!

 

[Amir0x]

ROOFLECOPTERS

you're a funny guy.

Way to completely skip over the points in favour of incompetence.

 

[DCharlie]

Spoiler

I loved the first arbiter level, but the later level ploughing through the flood became old real quick.

Actually, thinking about it , i think you are right! the last few levels are pretty kick ass! The cov. homeworld level is pretty good too.

The level cut into the mountains with the stream running through, though, particularly stinks.

i think my main reason to be disappointed is that the early levels, especially the earth level and the cable cutting Arbiter level were just so kick ass, that going back to the Halo-style level hurt quite a bit.

And the story hasn't really advanced much - Earth is still about to be attacked, etc etc...

I personally get the feeling that half way through this, the Xb2 dev kits arrived and the focus shifted somewhat - i mean, why shoot your load on an earth based Halo 2 when you can throw it on the Xb2 and REALLY push some scenarios? / at the same time!

 

[Rlan]

I've played through about 3 levels at the moment, quite good, but those graphical errors during the cutscenes are really REALLY annoying.

I'm no graphics whore, but everything we had seem up until the game came out looked fantastic with no errors, and then we're getting 3 layers of Master Cheif, and a glitchy looking Mr. Bumpmapped-Face phasing in and out, and Soldiers popping out of nowhere.

It doesn't seem to happen

Spoiler

During the Covenant scenes, surprisingly,

, but it sure happens a lot during the others.

That in itself would have brought down the notches for the game if I were reviewing it. It just makes the 'experience' seem a bit crap.

Also,

Spoiler

The first Covenant mission has those samey corridors again, going up and up in a twist, and the ruins level also has a lot of Desa-Vu. Please tell me it gets better :\

 

[Amir0x]

Halo 9.7 = metroid prime 9.7

halo 2 9.4 > metroid prime 9.1

OOOOH GAMESPOT-OWNED.......SCORE #s REALLY DO MATTER. YOU AM CRYING!

I am fallen!

 

[DCharlie]

"I've played through about 3 levels at the moment, quite good, but those graphical errors during the cutscenes are really REALLY annoying."

there is something very very odd about the graphical errors ....

If i play the PAL version, i see very few of them...
if i play the USA version, i see them VERY OFTEN
If i play the JPN version, i see them every now and then...

it's fecked up, something is wrong... not sure what though....

What possible reason is ther for the PAL version to work better (and no , it's NOT running from my HD )

 

[Rlan]

But I am using the PAL version :\

 

[DCharlie]

weird - i wonder if there is some random factor (how much cheese you have eaten or something like that....???? the days price of fish, or level of norweignen leather imports?)

 

[Do The Mario]

Spoiler

Halo 2’s single player campaign is one of the finest gaming moments I have had in a long time! The only level I didn’t love was the first arbiter level however it did have some awesome sections!

I also believed that the flood were handled much better then in Halo

I can’t believe people didn’t enjoy it –

 

[DCharlie]

agreed on your final point DTMario.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Spoiler

Halo 2’s single player campaign is one of the finest gaming moments I have had in a long time! The only level I didn’t love was the first arbiter level however it did have some awesome sections!

I also believed that the flood were handled much better then in Halo

I can’t believe people didn’t enjoy it –

Spoiler

not only were they handled better, but thier AI is like 100000000000000000 X better than it was in Halo

 

[DCharlie]

Spoiler

as long as it's not getting stuck on scenary...

 

[shpankey]

i beat the game at around 10 hours on heoric. maybe 12. that's pretty damn short.

i call bullshit

 

[Do The Mario]

agreed on your final point DTMario.

Spoiler

Yup you don’t have to fight wave after wave of flood for 10 minutes straight like in Halo, each individual flood is also more powerful then in halo. To be honest Halo 2 has made me intrigued to know more about the flood.

Towards the end of the game there were some very intense Flood battles and none of them drag on like in the original.

I don’t have Xbox live just yet (when I move house soon I will) but I still consider Halo 2 single player to be the finest gaming experience I have had this gen.

Also I can’t wait to play some Co-Op, I was considering using my old RF switch TV to provide a second screen for system link co-op.


What the hell do I need to set up a system link?

 

[DCharlie]

"i beat the game at around 10 hours on heoric. maybe 12. that's pretty damn short.
i call bullshit"

Exact same time for me too...

it's even shorter when cooping too.

Also, Heroic seems easier than last time - is it experience, or is it actualy easier?

"What the hell do I need to set up a system link?"

a link up cable for 2 xboxes... a hub plus a load of straight LAN cables for more than 1 Xbox.

We played monthly Halo nights around my place , but now , even if we do H2 nights, we'll probably link up over internet and have the voice chat added. The net code is too damned slick to describe - i've seen ZERO lag so far. Nothing. It's like every game has been played over a lan in my house. Shockingly good.

 

[ElyrionX]

But yes, in terms of artistic direction of level layout there is virtually no competition whatsoever. Metroid Prime's levels are filled with organic, brilliantly laid out sub sectors and caverns. Every inch of the levels ooze with artistic competence and frankly harkens to a sort of genre mastery that we rarely get to see in gaming. Halo 2's levels are vast and impressive in their own right, but are lacking in the sort of close attention to detail and wildly imaginative layout that Metroid Prime is. In Metroid Prime, nearly every last part is filled with secrets for you to find, a door to be opened later, a tunnel to reach further down the line. It is this sort of ingenuity that lends itself to Metroid Prime's superior single player, and to me it's no competition.

I completely agree with this. I have yet to play Halo 2 (will do that after my exams are over) but I highly doubt that Metroid Prime can be topped in this area. MP's environment is truly stunning and I doubt that we will see anything that even comes close to it this gen.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

But yes, in terms of artistic direction of level layout there is virtually no competition whatsoever. Metroid Prime's levels are filled with organic, brilliantly laid out sub sectors and caverns. Every inch of the levels ooze with artistic competence and frankly harkens to a sort of genre mastery that we rarely get to see in gaming. Halo 2's levels are vast and impressive in their own right, but are lacking in the sort of close attention to detail and wildly imaginative layout that Metroid Prime is. In Metroid Prime, nearly every last part is filled with secrets for you to find, a door to be opened later, a tunnel to reach further down the line. It is this sort of ingenuity that lends itself to Metroid Prime's superior single player, and to me it's no competition.

I can agree with this except that when comparing MP to Halo 2 in the level design department, it doesn't work. MP has to be more densely packed with details due to the 'extreme' amount of backtracking the game design requires. A game like Halo 2 is constantly hurtling you forward in an epic adventure spanning a huge space of territory. Metroid Prime, by design and tradition, seeks to hold you captive in a much smaller adventure in which you'll be revisiting (a lot!) areas by choice and by design.

Halo 2's (single player) level design = very fucking beautiful tapestry spanning miles and miles from end to end.

Metroid Prime's level design = highly polished and densely detailed landscape painted on a relatively small conveyor-belt upon which you will travel back and forth, poring over new details as you go to reach its end.

Or something like that.

I'm so high right now...

Time to go back to Live...

The difference is enough to make clear that they cannot be compared fairly, IMO.

 

[DCharlie]

"Time to go back to Live...
The difference is enough to make clear that they cannot be compared fairly, IMO."

ole!

no one would put Counter strike up vs. Metroid, so why would an online heavy game like H2 be up against MP2?

As great as i'm sure MP2 is , it isn't an FPS as well...

 

[_Angelus_]

I thought Metroid Prime was excellent. No reason to see why things would change in its sequel. The Halo series has been awesome as well this generation.

It still baffles the hell out of me how people have this mindset of loving one while ripping the helll out of the other. Both games are going to make 2004 a heck of a good year in gaming.

It sorta brings it down though when I come on here and read some of the venom being spread by folks who lunge out at one or both of the games. Sometimes I feel compelled to enter a thrad and debate,but one thing I have learned is you *CANNOT* change or enlighten a person's mind...well not on the internet anyways.

It bothers me though,Metroid and Halo are going to put a nice stamp on the 128 generation of gaming when its all said and done. And yet it'll also be remembered as two of the most controversial games because people somehow couldn't stop and enjoy atleast one of these games without making snide comements about the other.

Its like Mario and Sonic all over again.