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GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY |OT| ...Who?

D

Dram

Member
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/08/04/guardians_of_the_galaxy_co_writer_nicole_perlman_vs_director_james_gunn.html
Marvel’s latest film, Guardians of the Galaxy, has been a runaway hit, earning more than $90 million in its opening weekend. Critics are also enamored, lauding the movie for its quirky humor, which subverts the genre’s usual self-seriousness, and its taut and clever script, which was co-written by Nicole Perlman and director James Gunn.

As several outlets have pointed out, though, “co-written” is perhaps not the most accurate term for how Perlman and Gunn divided their duties. Perlman—the first female writer credited on a Marvel film—spent more than two years combing through the obscure Guardians comics and drafting the film’s initial story. Gunn, known for helming offbeat hits like Super and Slither, then did an expansive rewrite, which he claims gave the film its irreverent sensibility and major character arcs. This co-writing-without-collaboration isn’t a novel situation in Hollywood, but Perlman and Gunn have given differing descriptions of their contributions to the final script.

According to the BuzzFeed piece, Perlman’s script did have a good story—good enough for Marvel to green-light its production—but that story doesn’t seem to be the one that ended up on screen. Gunn’s rewrite changed the major villain of the film, added several crucial secondary characters, and reshaped the dialogue to fit his comedic vision. Perlman hasn’t disputed those changes; in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter she noted that Gunn “definitely bumped the humor up and added some characters and deepened the scenes.” Her phrasing, though, implies that Gunn was merely honing her template, and that the central story and characters were entirely her creation.

Gunn has pointedly contested that premise. In the BuzzFeed profile, he acknowledges that “the original concept” was in Perlman’s treatment, but states that “the story and the characters—those were pretty much re-created by me.” In a roundtable interview transcribed by FilmDivider, he went even further, maintaining that “in Nicole’s script everything is pretty different … the story is different, there’s no Walkman, the character arcs are different, it’s not about the same stuff. But that’s how the WGA works. They like first writers an awful lot.”

As Sady Doyle tweeted, there’s definitely some have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too cognitive dissonance occurring when Guardians is billed as the first Marvel movie written by a woman and the director is “constantly, publicly thrashing her script.” But Gunn, by all accounts, did write the majority of Guardians as it’s seen on screen, and Perlman, for her part, hasn’t suffered from a dearth of publicity. That’s as it should be—her work was fundamental to the film’s creation. A cynic could say that Marvel has trumped up her role to bask in PR praise, but I prefer the optimistic take: that Perlman’s credit, though marred by Gunn’s petulance, is a rare and deserved triumph that indicates slow headway in a male-dominated industry.
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T

teiresias

Member
Pai Pai Master said:
I dunno I think you're just not supposed to care that much. Stuff like the Kree are super important to Marvel canon, just not that important in the movies as yet. The film just kinda expects you to roll with it and not worry about it.
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One of the problems I had with the film, as someone not very versed in Marvel canon beyond X-Men (and even then very little), was since the film didn't want me to "worry about" who the Kree were nor did it want me to "worry about" Xandar or the Nova Corp and what they were, I had absolutely no attachment to why Ronan was doing what he was doing (specifically in targeting Xandar). It just made the antagonist a flat "big bad" with very little interesting going on with him.
 
M

Mighty Chin

Banned
teiresias said:
One of the problems I had with the film, as someone not very versed in Marvel canon beyond X-Men (and even then very little), was since the film didn't want me to "worry about" who the Kree were nor did it want me to "worry about" Xandar or the Nova Corp and what they were, I had absolutely no attachment to why Ronan was doing what he was doing (specifically in targeting Xandar). It just made the antagonist a flat "big bad" with very little interesting going on with him.
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I can agree with that. A little more meat would have helped that conflict.
 
A

Alcoremortis

Member
Dram said:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/08/04/guardians_of_the_galaxy_co_writer_nicole_perlman_vs_director_james_gunn.html
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I honestly don't think it matters what percent or whatever of either's script was original/used in the film/funny/whatever.

Gunn wouldn't have even gotten the opportunity to do a rewrite if Perlman's script hadn't been good to start with. The end product was successful and was also Gunn's rewrite. They're both pretty, no need to fight about it.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
teiresias said:
One of the problems I had with the film, as someone not very versed in Marvel canon beyond X-Men (and even then very little), was since the film didn't want me to "worry about" who the Kree were nor did it want me to "worry about" Xandar or the Nova Corp and what they were, I had absolutely no attachment to why Ronan was doing what he was doing (specifically in targeting Xandar). It just made the antagonist a flat "big bad" with very little interesting going on with him.
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I don't think the depiction of Ronan needed complexity, not did Xandar, but against what they are in the comics they're pretty underwhelming. The Kree for sure could have used a bit more exposition, considering their importance moving forward in the MCU and as something to contrast Ronan against.
 
S

SketchTheArtist

Member
Dram said:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/08/04/guardians_of_the_galaxy_co_writer_nicole_perlman_vs_director_james_gunn.html
Click to expand...

They're creating drama where there is none. Perlman wrote the structure of the story (How the character's meet, their goals, their basic journey and probably the flow/pacing and Gunn refined it with more details surrounding the characters, their personality, the dialogue, etc. It's a team effort. Both have always said that it was a dual effort with Kevin Feige supervising the whole thing as he does with all Marvel movies. Also, some actors added some input on their own characters.

Again, just looking for something to write about to have more clicks. Boring.
 
M

mugurumakensei

Member
SketchTheArtist said:
They're creating drama where there is none. Perlman wrote the structure of the story (How the character's meet, their goals, their basic journey and probably the flow/pacing and Gunn refined it with more details surrounding the characters, their personality, the dialogue, etc. It's a team effort. Both have always said that it was a dual effort with Kevin Feige supervising the whole thing as he does with all Marvel movies. Also, some actors added some input on their own characters.

Again, just looking for something to write about to have more clicks. Boring.
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Pretty much.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
SketchTheArtist said:
They're creating drama where there is none. Perlman wrote the structure of the story (How the character's meet, their goals, their basic journey and probably the flow/pacing and Gunn refined it with more details surrounding the characters, their personality, the dialogue, etc. It's a team effort. Both have always said that it was a dual effort with Kevin Feige supervising the whole thing as he does with all Marvel movies. Also, some actors added some input on their own characters.

Again, just looking for something to write about to have more clicks. Boring.
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Yeah I've watched pretty much every interview from both of them and there's nothing unreal about this. When either are asked about who is responsible for x or y scene they respectably mention it was the other persons idea and what they brought to the film.
 
N

nomis

Member
SketchTheArtist said:
They're creating drama where there is none. Perlman wrote the structure of the story (How the character's meet, their goals, their basic journey and probably the flow/pacing and Gunn refined it with more details surrounding the characters, their personality, the dialogue, etc. It's a team effort. Both have always said that it was a dual effort with Kevin Feige supervising the whole thing as he does with all Marvel movies. Also, some actors added some input on their own characters.

Again, just looking for something to write about to have more clicks. Boring.
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While it's definitely true to say "Gunn wouldn't have gotten the chance if Perlman's work wasn't any good", it's completely discounting the movie that Gunn ingeniously wrote to say that he "refined it", "it" being "wrote all of the character's personalities and dialogue" when that is the complete criteria on which the movie succeeds at it's goals with the audience. He may as well have been handed a plot outline by Marvel that said "Use this infinity gem and these five leads". That plot outline isn't exactly a tour de force.

If Gunn has any misgivings it's because he's billed second when he took what was probably a paint by numbers Marvel script like Thor: The Dark World (that was apparently safe enough for them to at least greenlight), and made a STORY out of it.
 
S

SketchTheArtist

Member
nomis said:
While it's definitely true to say "Gunn wouldn't have gotten the chance if Perlman's work wasn't any good", it's completely discounting the movie that Gunn ingeniously wrote to say that he "refined it", "it" being "wrote all of the character's personalities and dialogue" when that is the complete criteria on which the movie succeeds at it's goals with the audience. He may as well have been handed a plot outline by Marvel that said "Use this infinity gem and these five leads". That plot outline isn't exactly a tour de force.

If Gunn has any misgivings it's because he's billed second when he took what was probably a paint by numbers Marvel script like Thor: The Dark World (that was apparently safe enough for them to at least greenlight), and made a STORY out of it.
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I don't know how it went down specifically, but based on her interview, she was hired to look into taking a new Marvel property to the big screen. Working on a story outline and then a first draft went a long way into proving GOTG had big screen potential and actual legs as a new series of movies (along with all of its product lines trickling down from the movie).

I believe it is totally Gunn's movie though. His imprint is all over it. But Perlman's work on it made it so it was a very solid foundation. She gave it its initial structure and Gunn gave it its heart. Teamwork yo.
 
D

Dalek

Member
Akainu said:
Just saw it. It was alright.

I liked Turtles more.
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hhn.gif
 
C

Cynar

Member
Akainu said:
3 seconds of action from Splinter in Turtles was better than every bit of action in Guardians. I mean the Turtles themselves were at least a bit charming in their own ways to me. I at least liked Groot.

Even Shredders paper thin character was better than anything from Ronin(?).
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Were you watching the original turtles and comparing it to guardians? I can't see your comparison with Michael bays.
 
S

soepje

Member
Will be seeing it tonight with some people who really want to see the movie. Not expecting much of it, the humor in the trailer was pretty terrible and that raccoon can just die already imho. But who knows, perhaps i'll be pleasantly surprised.
 
S

Showaddy

Member
SketchTheArtist said:
I don't know how it went down specifically, but based on her interview, she was hired to look into taking a new Marvel property to the big screen. Working on a story outline and then a first draft went a long way into proving GOTG had big screen potential and actual legs as a new series of movies (along with all of its product lines trickling down from the movie).

I believe it is totally Gunn's movie though. His imprint is all over it. But Perlman's work on it made it so it was a very solid foundation. She gave it its initial structure and Gunn gave it its heart. Teamwork yo.
Click to expand...

I remember that Feige had already ordered the script to be re-written by someone else before Gunn got involved in order to add humour to the script and generally refine it so it was probably a long way away from being ready.

The McGuffin was involved from the start though because I remember the original scripts tagline revolving around it. One things for sure is that Gunn will want sole credit for the sequel so he'll write the whole thing from scratch himself.
 
B

Baron von Loathsome

Member
RobotNinjaHornets said:
I was at a pub last night and they played Escape once and Hooked On A Feeling twice.

I think they may have seen this.
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My nearest Barnes and Noble clearly had Awesome Mix Vol. 1 on during a visit the other evening. When I arrived, they were playing "Come and Get Your Love," and both "Cherry Bomb" and "Escape" had been played by the time I left.
 
S

soepje

Member
soepje said:
Will be seeing it tonight with some people who really want to see the movie. Not expecting much of it, the humor in the trailer was pretty terrible and that raccoon can just die already imho. But who knows, perhaps i'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Ok, i take it back. This movie was quite entertaining after all.
 
Christopher

Christopher

Member
This would work better as a series IMO the fleshing out of these characters and their space adventures would be a very good watch.

I just felt everyone was very underdeveloped as you had to share screentime with so many characters.
 
J

Jibber Hack

Member
Just saw the film at an AMC with a packed theater. Not surprising it would take back the spot from Turtles.

Also, I think that I enjoyed this movie more than anyone else in the theater.
 
D

Dalek

Member
I'm eagerly awaiting the day when people look back at this film and assume Guardians were always A-Listers and that this movie was a no-brainer to make with no risk whatsoever.

Like every other Marvel Studios movie.
 
N

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Dalek said:
I'm eagerly awaiting the day when people look back at this film and assume Guardians were always A-Listers and that this movie was a no-brainer to make with no risk whatsoever.

Like every other Marvel Studios movie.
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I'll tell my grandchildren the tale of the glory that was Marvel, how they took the world by storm by releasing Iron Man, and building up to a never before seen movie event called The Avengers, and after that dust had settled, they released a movie based on a comic book literally nobody had heard of featuring a talking raccoon, a walking tree, a greenskinned assassin, a blue-skinned warrior and an '70s music half-alien, while Warner Bros was trying to convince fans the world wasn't ready for Wonder Woman.
 
L

Lone_Prodigy

Member
GotG is now the biggest movie of the summer (beating Transformers, Maleficent, and X-Men) and the 3rd highest grossing domestic movie of the year (behind The Lego Movie and Captain America 2).

Great for the movie, but kind of a disappointment for theatres. GotG's $251M take pales in comparison to last summer's biggest movie Iron Man 3 with $409M. In a year where we've had a new Transformers, X-Men, Spider-Man, ticket sales are down.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Lone_Prodigy said:
GotG is now the biggest movie of the summer (beating Transformers, Maleficent, and X-Men) and the 3rd highest grossing domestic movie of the year (behind The Lego Movie and Captain America 2).

Great for the movie, but kind of a disappointment for theatres. GotG's $251M take pales in comparison to last summer's biggest movie Iron Man 3 with $409M. In a year where we've had a new Transformers, X-Men, Spider-Man, ticket sales are down.
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I mean... Iron Man 3 is the 6th highest grossing movie of all time. There isn't going to be one of those every year, so I don't really think that's a trend.

2015 has Avengers, Bond, Jurassic Park, Fast 7, the last Hunger Games, Ant-Man and ends with Star Wars. It's going to be WAY up on this year.
 
L

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Sheroking said:
I mean... Iron Man 3 is the 6th highest grossing movie of all time. There isn't going to be one of those every year, so I don't really think that's a trend.

2015 has Avengers, Bond, Jurassic Park, Fast 7, the last Hunger Games, Ant-Man and ends with Star Wars. It's going to be WAY up on this year.
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The total box office for Summer 2014 is $3.6B with one week to go. Last year it was $4.9B, and in every year since 2007 box office receipts have totaled at least $4.1B.

Maybe people are getting franchise fatigue (Transformers 4 made $100M less than Transformers 3) or they're getting tired of the theatre-going experience. Next year should be a good litmus test.
 
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