That about sums it up. Basically people are angry that an RPG or MMO for that matter requires that you actually DO something to gain anything.
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Guild Wars 2 - Heart of Thorns |OT| Welcome to the Jungle...
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That about sums it up. Basically people are angry that an RPG or MMO for that matter requires that you actually DO something to gain anything.
Guild Mission Reset happened.
Easy Missions:
PvP: Win 1 Stronghold match in 30 minutes.
PvE: Guild Trek
Medium Mission:
PvE: Guild Rush: Devourer Burrow
Hard Mission:
PvE: Guild Rush: Bear Lope
I'm only mentioning because while there's a PvP mission up, and it doesn't require a guild team to do, we can probably do it over and over again at least once per night. Although I don't know if there's any cost to attempting it?
Easy Missions:
PvP: Win 1 Stronghold match in 30 minutes.
PvE: Guild Trek
Medium Mission:
PvE: Guild Rush: Devourer Burrow
Hard Mission:
PvE: Guild Rush: Bear Lope
I'm only mentioning because while there's a PvP mission up, and it doesn't require a guild team to do, we can probably do it over and over again at least once per night. Although I don't know if there's any cost to attempting it?
I think one of the reasons is that HOT is too expensive... should be U$ 30 for ppl who bought the full game... i wanna play but i refuse to pay U$ 50 .
"should be U$ 30"?
The devs have worked on this for a long time. What I have heard from guildies is that the new zones are incredible. The "Quality of Life" changes are great. The new guild stuff is great. They worked hard for a long time to give us a huge expansion that they will keep updating for free.
And it "should be" some other amount of money than what they ask for? They are not even asking for a lot. It's a standard game price. It's the exact same both in digital form and physical form as both WoW's and FFXIV's latest expansions here in Sweden. And those are subscription games!
The idea that it should be cheaper for people owning the base game is so strange to me. Why would it be? Has anyone ever done that? Serious question, because I've played a lot of games with expansions and can't remember a single one I got cheaper for owning the base game. Quite the opposite in fact. It's most often bundled with the base game for obvious reasons and new people get the whole thing cheaper than my original purchase + expansion. It's the way it works. Things get cheaper over time.
I'm fine with people saying it's too expensive for them. The value is very subjective of course. If you don't think you'll get 50 dollars worth of content, you don't buy it. Fine.
I'm not fine with people saying it "should be" cheaper. The devs have the right to decide what their work is worth.
The devs have worked on this for a long time. What I have heard from guildies is that the new zones are incredible. The "Quality of Life" changes are great. The new guild stuff is great. They worked hard for a long time to give us a huge expansion that they will keep updating for free.
And it "should be" some other amount of money than what they ask for? They are not even asking for a lot. It's a standard game price. It's the exact same both in digital form and physical form as both WoW's and FFXIV's latest expansions here in Sweden. And those are subscription games!
The idea that it should be cheaper for people owning the base game is so strange to me. Why would it be? Has anyone ever done that? Serious question, because I've played a lot of games with expansions and can't remember a single one I got cheaper for owning the base game. Quite the opposite in fact. It's most often bundled with the base game for obvious reasons and new people get the whole thing cheaper than my original purchase + expansion. It's the way it works. Things get cheaper over time.
I'm fine with people saying it's too expensive for them. The value is very subjective of course. If you don't think you'll get 50 dollars worth of content, you don't buy it. Fine.
I'm not fine with people saying it "should be" cheaper. The devs have the right to decide what their work is worth.
Zero cost in attempting.
PepperedHam
Member
How do the new zones run compared to the old ones? My machine is getting kind of old but I'm able to run out in the old zones in 40-55ish fps, are the new ones more taxing?
Kos Luftar
Member
After watching woodenpotatoes Verdant Brink video (uploaded today) we will have to organize guild events to try and max out VB meta event.
I really want to try out fighting the boss he shows at the end of the video, so freaking cool.
I really want to try out fighting the boss he shows at the end of the video, so freaking cool.
They are more taxing, I have an old GTX260 and had barely slowdowns in the old zones, only in big bosses mobs of people and in the expansion zones my framerate has tanked. The zones have a lot of verticallity and detail and its shows.
No it doesn't quite sum it up. The whining might be excessive but there are plenty of questionable design decisions that people are rightfully upset about. Being dismissive of all the complaints doesn't help. It's clear that there are a lot of people who find the Hero Point system tedious and unnecessarily long.
You can easily argue that the price is too high. Wasn't the base game $60? What warrants HoT to be only $10 less? There's nowhere near the content in this expansion compared to the full game.
Kos Luftar
Member
Neph, none of what you said warrants a 0/10 review.
DigitalHoax
Neo Member
There is a ton of content included with this expansion, people are complaining that there's actually too much to do causing them to have to play the game to unlock the elite skill sets. I have never seen such a whiny community that actually complains they have to actually play the game.
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
Yup hero points is the biggest complaint because many are locked behind needing groups. Verdant brink has already been empty on many occasions so far which isnt good.
Many people will just move on once they realise its group stuff.
Its a weird design and was not needed. What was the need for hero points needed to be so tough ? U have world events and things in the open world for that.
Locking basic progression behind group is really bad and thats why many people are pissed and anyone can try and fight against it saying its fine. But it isnt. The change wasnt needed or warranted and will just drive people away from them zones once the hotness wears off.
Many people will just move on once they realise its group stuff.
Its a weird design and was not needed. What was the need for hero points needed to be so tough ? U have world events and things in the open world for that.
Locking basic progression behind group is really bad and thats why many people are pissed and anyone can try and fight against it saying its fine. But it isnt. The change wasnt needed or warranted and will just drive people away from them zones once the hotness wears off.
Thats true, its like they learned nothing for all the backlash agaisnt last story mission being the Story Mode of the last dungeon.
I suppose in the future hero points that are behind Group events will be changed.
Spehornoob
Member
I wonder if perhaps it was a slight marketing mistake for ANet to market the elite specs as almost a change of profession rather than just a new or unique trait line.
I hear a lot of things like "I don't want to play Necromancer, I want to play Reaper" when people discuss the Elite Spec acquisition. I guess I can understand it, but I just see the Elite Specs as just new options for builds for my character, rather than anything identity changing. It also probably helps that I'm not dying to use Bersker on my Warrior main (though I'll tinker around with it eventually).
So I don't mind the hero point grind at all. I kind of wish the event XP in the new areas was buffed a little bit, especially since a lot of them take a while. One thing I like about leveling in GW2 is that every event you do fills up a nice chunk (five percent or so) of your XP bar. I kind of wish it felt that way when leveling mastery. But it's hardly anything that tarnishes the experience to a huge degree for me.
I'm really, really enjoying this expansion. The narrative is fantastic and I think the map and event design is absolutely incredible. I'm not saying it's all perfect and everything, but I think the sheer amount of vitriol going toward it right now is somewhat unwarranted.
Edit: I also don't doubt that a future patch will make the hero points solo-able. I've never had much of a problem getting them so far, but I can easily see it becoming an issue. My guess is they made it difficult so people didn't zerg everything like crazy in just a few minutes, and they'll make it more solo-able once the population dies down a bit.
I hear a lot of things like "I don't want to play Necromancer, I want to play Reaper" when people discuss the Elite Spec acquisition. I guess I can understand it, but I just see the Elite Specs as just new options for builds for my character, rather than anything identity changing. It also probably helps that I'm not dying to use Bersker on my Warrior main (though I'll tinker around with it eventually).
So I don't mind the hero point grind at all. I kind of wish the event XP in the new areas was buffed a little bit, especially since a lot of them take a while. One thing I like about leveling in GW2 is that every event you do fills up a nice chunk (five percent or so) of your XP bar. I kind of wish it felt that way when leveling mastery. But it's hardly anything that tarnishes the experience to a huge degree for me.
I'm really, really enjoying this expansion. The narrative is fantastic and I think the map and event design is absolutely incredible. I'm not saying it's all perfect and everything, but I think the sheer amount of vitriol going toward it right now is somewhat unwarranted.
Edit: I also don't doubt that a future patch will make the hero points solo-able. I've never had much of a problem getting them so far, but I can easily see it becoming an issue. My guess is they made it difficult so people didn't zerg everything like crazy in just a few minutes, and they'll make it more solo-able once the population dies down a bit.
appletoasty
Member
I was skeptical on the fractal changes but I think I like it. The loot is still god awful but it's fun and feels like way less of a time commitment now, even if I do the same number of fractals as before.
I don't like that they want fractals to be the instanced 5-man PvE but they give very little experience. (RIP dungeons) I wasn't doing anything in core Tyria other than fractals and Halloween stuff. I did maybe 10 over the weekend and I was just about halfway through my first mastery when I was done last night. Zzzz
I don't like that they want fractals to be the instanced 5-man PvE but they give very little experience. (RIP dungeons) I wasn't doing anything in core Tyria other than fractals and Halloween stuff. I did maybe 10 over the weekend and I was just about halfway through my first mastery when I was done last night. Zzzz
Definitely should.
Yeah no costs, no limits. We will have to rethink guild missions in general to some degree, in that while we will definitely continue to have Saturday night mission parties/Sunday night makeups for some chunk of whatever is available, we shouldn't shy away from putting guild groups together at any time if there's a willing group.
We did some Treks last night with just about 6 or 7 people hunting (Treks now give mission rewards) and it was a lot of fun.
shysaursoft
Member
Every single MMO I've ever played, has this vocal minority kvetching on forums, reddit, metacritic, etc. It's nothing new, nor warrants much attention. Sure there are valid complaints, but the subset of people who express those complaints as whiny Yelp-style reviews, banging their fists on the table, demanding the devs fix it naow, don't give out enough respect to warrant their opinions being respected.
WoW's (small, vocal) whiny community almost made me hate the game for having such a community, even though it's not the game's fault. It took me a while to figure out the proper way to handle the situation, but it helps to remember that 1000 people bitching on a forum, don't represent the opinion of the 10+ million people who play.
Excessively or perpetually negative people are boring, and tiring, and the internet gives them too much attention so they get into the habit of thinking that negative opinions = truth. And nobody better dare say their special snowflake opinion is wrong or invalid, because they have "valid complaints!", even if they're expressing it like a four year old during a tantrum.
To be fair, it's usually the *same* bunch of people who complain, from launch till the day they finally move on. So that loud, vocal, but ultimately pointless and meaningless negative lump you find attached to any game, seems to be an unfortunate byproduct of giving everyone a platform from which to scream. I'm okay with people doing their thing, if they want to be negative, complain, call the devs lazy, etc. But I dislike it when that attitude becomes cancerous and virulent. But I digress.
tl;dr; Whiners gonna whine, regardless of how valid a complaint they have. If it's a valid complaint, it's likely common knowledge already, so the whiners are just adding superfluous noise so they can feel heard, and share some of their pain at not having the fun they think they deserve. Can be ignored.
If there is a system, people will abuse it. Metacritic, Steam and amazon user review scores have always been at the whim of an entitled community that loves to dogpile and abuse any system. Sometimes its funny schadenfreude, when it's a game "everyone" has issue with, and sometimes it's just dumb children (and man-children) doing dumb things, thinking they're being clever. It can be safely ignored too, I feel.
If you find your VB kinda empty, zone out and in again, and it'll (usually) put you in a more populated instance.
I think a pretty legitimate complaint is that you can't even really use some of the elite specs in any meaningful way until you cap them out--and you can't cap them out until you've played a not insignificant portion of the new content.
It's not an issue of unlocking everything now but rather that the things you do need to unlock aren't the sorts of things people want to dedicate a shitload of time to and would rather reap the benefits immediately. It's doubly bad for people that focus on WvW as it takes nearly 30-40 hours to just max out your elite spec if you focused on WvW. That's... I dunno. It's a long time. I don't blame people for not bein' down with grinding that out.
Like I think people whining about mastery unlocks are kinda silly. It's the primary leveling mechanic for the expac. You could argue that it's not communicated well and it doesn't feel as good as actual level-ups, but it's a fairly subjective thing. I just know I'm not looking forward to slogging through all the Hero Point challenges (that can't be solo'd from the sounds of things) just to unlock and play Herald appropriately when it's the primary thing that attracted me to Revenant in the first place.
Finished the story this morning. Overall a very significant improvement from where GW2 has come from.
I will say that, even though the Mastery gating on story mission 14 is now removed, you may want to consider holding off a bit longer on finishing the story. The final mission involves a very long encounter that appears to have a few different ways it can break, forcing a full encounter restart each time you run into one (or in some cases multiple restarts). Might want to hold off until you see this mission mentioned in upcoming patch notes. When working it is a very satisfactory conclusion to the story, but has the potential to be a real buzzkill at the moment.
I will say that, even though the Mastery gating on story mission 14 is now removed, you may want to consider holding off a bit longer on finishing the story. The final mission involves a very long encounter that appears to have a few different ways it can break, forcing a full encounter restart each time you run into one (or in some cases multiple restarts). Might want to hold off until you see this mission mentioned in upcoming patch notes. When working it is a very satisfactory conclusion to the story, but has the potential to be a real buzzkill at the moment.
shysaursoft
Member
It's been exactly three days since launch, and people are still complaining they can't max out Elite spec, finish the story, get all masteries, or 100% the new maps, all in one weekend.
I know people are in a hurry, but dayum.
Though I guess perhaps this is GW2's fault for being so easy, quick to level, accommodating to alts: people have come to expect everything to be fast and now. Except Yakslapper.
I know people are in a hurry, but dayum.
Though I guess perhaps this is GW2's fault for being so easy, quick to level, accommodating to alts: people have come to expect everything to be fast and now. Except Yakslapper.
Finished the original story this weekend, planned on playing the new stuff never got there.
Hitting season 2 story,having a lot of difficulty there too.
The last mission in the original story line is almost unsoloable. On the bridge with 3 or 4 dragons and mods that heal and aoe like shit.
Sighs many angry moments this weekend
Hitting season 2 story,having a lot of difficulty there too.
The last mission in the original story line is almost unsoloable. On the bridge with 3 or 4 dragons and mods that heal and aoe like shit.
Sighs many angry moments this weekend
I'm in the UK so playing off peak for SBI but VB has still been packed for me every time. When are you seeing it empty??
appletoasty
Member
There's apparently some weirdness with the megaservers, it's dropping too many people into new maps instead of populating old ones so a lot of people are seeing empty maps way more often than they should. Zoning out and zoning back in (going to character select and logging in again) seems to fix it though.
shysaursoft
Member
I'm wondering this myself, because the entire point of megaserver is that maps will never (from the point of view of the player) be empty. And if it IS empty, you get asked to move to a populated map.
I think VB is just so big, a lot of people think it's emptier than it is, because players can be so spread out vertically.
That might explain it. Hope they iron that out soon then.
I honestly think elite specs shouldn't have been a thing people have to work towards--especially with how they completely change the role of some classes. Like you can't even really play Daredevil all that effectively until you get to the Grandmaster traits that change your dodges.
Druid literally does nothing useful until you pump a handful of points into it. Only a handful of the elite specs are really any good out of the gate without dedicating a decent amount of time into them, and that's just... not very fun, I guess?
It'd be one thing if you started at lower level and could choose to invest in them earlier, but I dunno. From the sound of things it's just not fun to unlock it slowly when GW2 is more or less reliant on you having your full kit at level 80.
You're obviously not reading the complaints properly. 90% of the complaints are about the Hero Point system and the fact you can't play your Elite spec for hours (which is the main selling point of the expansion for many people). Most people are okay with the mastery system in general, aside from the fact that some of it is tired directly to the Hero Challenges.
Dalibor_San
Member
Is there still room to join the guild GAF?
If by any chance there is, I would like to be Invited:
Adamarisa(Level 30 Revenant) or Rexar Hellscream(level 80 Warrior)
I was on a long break from the game so I'm overwhelmed and don't know what to do anymore, I have a level 80 and then some characters at level 20-30(due to the exp level potion item you get with the birthday gift)
If by any chance there is, I would like to be Invited:
Adamarisa(Level 30 Revenant) or Rexar Hellscream(level 80 Warrior)
I was on a long break from the game so I'm overwhelmed and don't know what to do anymore, I have a level 80 and then some characters at level 20-30(due to the exp level potion item you get with the birthday gift)
shysaursoft
Member
I've seen people complain about the Hero Point system, the story, the mastery system, the map design, the specialization design, seen pages and pages of complaints about the Fractal changes, about legendary crafting. There is no lack of complaining on the internet dude. You should know.
I *get* that some people are impatient and want their full Elite spec the instant they log in. I'm okay with working towards it, like levelling a new class in an MMO xpac. I'm used to having to play the game to get the things.
I *get* that some people are upset. I just don't have to care, or think that screaming expletives on a forum is a valid way to express that they are upset.
Almost every single post you've made in the GW2 threads over the last three years, barring a handful of rare outliers, has been a negative about the game in some way. You've basically done nothing but expressed constant and perpetual unhappiness with the game, that you still play regularly. I don't know how much of it is a "I'm a cool dude" act, and how much is legit, but there's enough of it that even if it was a half-half split, that's more than enough wet blanket to put me off. So pardon me if I don't give your opinions much weight.
I get that. I'd be surprised if Anet didn't adjust the rate of HP acquisition over the next week. It's only been *three days*, patches have generally been about critical issues.
I saw the Elite specs as levelling a new class somewhat, so for me the time investment to get them fully unlocked seems okay. But I do understand why others want it to be faster. In the end, Anet will decide what to do.
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
The precursor track is a joke tho. It was advertised as a eoic journey to ur legendary not just collecting shit loads of materials etc which at the end of the day if brought seperate cost more than buying the legendary outright from tp.
I wouldn't really call n epic journey as collecting materials.
Other than precursor track n gated hero challenges (not all) the expansion is a huge plus. They just need to tweak some things
How else are they supposed to express their complaints? Write a litter to Anet? There's plenty of well written complaints on the official forums that clearly outline the issues the have with game.
I suppose you take the opinion of the posters that froth of every little aspect of the game 24/7 very seriously then. It goes both ways, and this thread in general already has a enough people who praise basically everything about it.
It's absolutely not different than leveling for 10 levels in another MMO to unlock all your new skills, yet I don't see anyone throwing a tantrum when it's done like that.
Atrophis said:
I'm from europe as well, and there was many times where verdant brink and the auric basin felt completely empty, I tagged up at several unmarked events to try to attract some people and almost nobody showed-up.
It's the main thing that might have hindered my personal progress during the week-end, and my only complaint so far.
In comparison in the same times Orr looked like a Mall on Black Friday.
There might be some issues with people being busy with Halloween and Tyria masteries; but there is definitely something off.
Cause seeing your guildmates on your minimap, and realizing they are not in the same map as you most of the time doesn't seem right ... xD
shysaursoft
Member
So, because well-written complaints exist, that makes it okay for people to act like assholes, tell devs to go kill themselves, etc?
Also, you're saying that in a thread about a game, which has people who are here because they play and enjoy the game, there's too many people who speak positively of the things they're enjoying about the game, and that's somehow... bad? Needs to be balanced with salt and vinegar, because... balance? The fug?
You're weird.
I got that yesterday. I believe megaserver is supposed to try and hook you up with guildies so I guess it is a bit bugged at the moment.
I think there's a fundamental difference between how elite specs work and leveling up another 10 levels. Like if you opt not to use the elite spec you are just as powerful as you ever were but if you do want to use your elite spec you're basically less effective than other people.
It's especially annoying--for me--when it comes to elite specs that radically change how the class is played. Which is a great many of the specs. For example: I wanna play a druid but almost none of my skills will actually work until I have everything unlocked. That's kinda annoying.
Want to know the what is wierd about the complaints about the HP for the specs? You can get most of them pretty quickly if you group (Something that is foreign to mmos lately.) and actually focus on getting them. Hell, once you have updraft training you probably can do them all in a day. Besides a few, of course.
We need to have guild day to focus on just getting those points.
Now look at that, more content that will bring a guild/community together.
We need to have guild day to focus on just getting those points.
Now look at that, more content that will bring a guild/community together.
appletoasty
Member
Quickly skimmed through the last 5 pages to make sure everyone was invited, I think I caught them all...
You 3 have been invited, next time you log in press G to open the guild panel, accept the invitation, and remember to represent if you want to see guild chat
Just invited you two, welcome!
There's plenty of space left so no worries for anyone else out there looking for an invite.
You 3 have been invited, next time you log in press G to open the guild panel, accept the invitation, and remember to represent if you want to see guild chat
Just invited you two, welcome!
There's plenty of space left so no worries for anyone else out there looking for an invite.
Who is saying that? That always happens on the internet for everything, obviously it's not okay but who outside of Anet forum moderators takes those types of posts seriously? At this point everyone else just filters that nonsense out. I don't see how that invalidates all the reasonable people who are genuinely disappointed in the game.
No, what I'm saying is that there's always enough people frothing over the game and that the issues mostly get glossed over in this thread comparatively speaking.
shysaursoft
Member
Now this dude gets it.
Every time I've been stuck on a group HP, I just asked in map chat if anyone else needed it, and within minutes there'd be 10+ people there.
Never said it did. People who are dissapointed are dissapointed. People with valid complaints and issues, have valid complaints and issues.
There are ENOUGH people who take that dissapointment and try to make sure everyone ELSE is as dissapointed as they are.
I don't think issues get glossed over in this thread. Compared to the official forums or reddit, sure, this thread is a "nicer" place to be, because the culture here is more about playing and enjoying the game, not just harping on about it and how bad it is. That's why I'm here, and why many people feel comfortable posting here.
But if this thread became a non-stop bitchfest? Fuck that, and that noise. EVERY TIME there has been a MAJOR issue with the game, there has been conversation about it here. People have managed to talk about the issues WITHOUT resorting to the kind of vitriol you see on the official forums, or reddit. Look at how often Moondrop and I were on opposite sides of the fence, but we never once resorted to attacking each other.
Now, here's something I do take issue with. You saying that "there are enough people frothing over the game", as if anyone with a positive opinion is somehow a rabid fanboy, and their enjoyment is thus totally invalid and their thoughts on the game don't matter because, I dunno. Why *are* you so against people just having a good time? Why must everything with you be only about complaining about what's wrong?
I have a list as long as my arm of things that bug me about GW2 at the moment. If that list gets too long, I'll probably stop playing the game. I did that with WoW. I did it with many games. But so far, GW2's "cons" list doesn't outweigh the "pros". And usually, the negatives list grows shorter as patches arrive. Anet is still "on track" in my book, though that's an opinion and subjective.
If you think the game is THAT bad, perhaps you're playing the wrong game?
Anyway, I disagree that a community thread for a game should be equal parts honey and piss. A little piss is unavoidable, sure. But many people (you included, in my book), are pissing in your own front yards with little care for who you hit. And the only time you're not taking the piss, is when you're defending your right to take the piss, all while pissing over those who call you on it.
You're free to do it, of course. And I'm telling you how I feel about it.
Apparently my old 50 Guardian was hacked by Chinese gold farmers and the account is unrecoverable, since I can't find my serial number. Since nothing of value was lost other than personal progress, I bought the Ultimate pack and started over. Playing a Charr thief and loving the dual-wield dagger setup.
10/10 post. Would rate again.
The kind of people who throw a shitty review out of spite because they got angry at something in the game, which is exactly what started this whole conversation.
Sure, and how many 10/10s did it get? Same principle. If a game is getting abnormally high amount of 0/10s then it obviously did something to trigger that type of behaviour. It doesn't just come out of nowhere, so while the score is skewed negatively it still gives an indication that a lot of people are unhappy with it.
shysaursoft
Member
User-reviews are a poll. And a poll is not an accurate representation unless it polls everyone involved. User-reviews are not, in any way, representative of anything, other than a statistically problematic small subset.
And if 4chan gets involved, the result is meaningless period.
You're arguing the semantics and validity of metacritic user reviews. I hope you realize that. That'd be like thinking that just because a product gets 4/5 starts on Amazon, it *must* be good, and perfect for anyone, anywhere, forever.
More importantly, I have to wonder: have *you* left your user-review score for HoT on Metacritic yet?
shysaursoft
Member
Regarding Hero Points:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/for...ero-Point-Feedback-Merged/page/54#post5659286
Regarding "empty" expansion maps:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/for...ero-Point-Feedback-Merged/page/54#post5659286
Regarding "empty" expansion maps:
Kos Luftar
Member
Don't worry about user-reviews, I doubt ANET uses meta critic score to dole out bonuses to its employees.
Leng, did you not enjoy getting hero points with me and SpiritFox? :-(
Leng, did you not enjoy getting hero points with me and SpiritFox? :-(
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