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Guild Wars 2 - Heart of Thorns |OT| Welcome to the Jungle...

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Morokh

Member
I still haven't bought HoT, but I'm thinking about it but I'm reading up on the current WvW scene and... well I'm not reading good stuff. Can anyone give a confirmation on whether WvW sucks or is it hyperbole?

WwW is indeed in a sorry state right now

Supposedly their big WwW overhaul didn't ship with HoT, while the new maps did, and they are still working on it and we don't have any more details than 'sometimes this year'

You might want to check when word about that gets out if there is still a WwW community for this game by then.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
While the leaders will discuss it in advance of the missions this Saturday, my suggestion off the bat for Guild Missions is to choose a hard time at which we will call it a night and put up a last call for the lotto. I'm thinking 10:30PM EST should be this time. If we can blaze through our missions (i.e. it's a "quick week" with the assortment) then so be it, if not, it is at the discretion of whoever is leading missions that week which ones are completed, favoring "Hard" first, etc.

In particular, please bear in mind that not being able to get every possible commendation for the week is a small sacrifice for the occasion once a week for the officers to get as many people through those missions we do organize as possible. And of course as everyone has already noted it made complete sense to now allow Guild Missions to be launched at any time by any member.

With regard to the lotto in particular, I am making a small change in that I will always ensure we never have a jackpot under 60g regardless of how many tickets are purchased. As I'm sure is obvious to those who know the rules of a lottery, the fewer people that enter, the greater chance you have per ticket for the full pot.

I am interested in a newbie run of the raid this weekend if there are any who are willing to help! Kos, I don't know what time you were thinking but I haven't tried it yet myself.
 

I've never raided in other games. This is effectively the first MMO that I've been really in to. (I played other MMOs but not enough to say that I know anything about them at all.) So yeah, maybe the people who tried raids in WoW are jaded about it but this is new and fun to me and I'm really enjoying getting my ass kicked by hard fights. :D

The raid is very forgiving in terms of DPS and build requirements, and you can effectively play whatever you want (provided it's not completely terrible but that's true for everything in this game, not just raids). There will be no build requirements BS because this is Guild Wars 2 and that's not going to change. (Slapping a trinket or two with toughness on it to hold aggro doesn't count as a build requirement. That's barely anything at all and it costs next to nothing)

We've already seen 10 guard Vale Guardians, 10 revenant Vale Guardians, 5 man Vale Guardians, 6 man Gorsevals... only the 1% of players are going to be able to pull this off if they never screw up but that also means that the other 99% of players can do whatever they want, screw up a couple times, and still find success if they put the effort in to learn their class and learn the encounter.

Raids are good and fun and anyone can reasonably do it if they put in the effort. Y'all need to stop hating if you're not even going to give it a chance just because something unpleasant happened to you in another game.
I dont poop in a sock. :( I'm a very hygienic individual

Maybe it's not for everyone but that's OK. WvW's player base has never been the majority of GW2 players, it isn't for everyone either but they're getting a significant amount of attention soon, why isn't anyone mad about that
 

Proven

Member
Sorry it took so long to respond to this.

I wanted to collect my thoughts instead of replying right away.

You might have had a different time in other games, but I still have days where I remember the troubles I had trying to play my specific setup of my Paladin in WoW. In that game, I wanted to play a certain style, a certain way, but the top tier content (raiding) would not allow me to be that way. I always pushed for it; even when it wasn't viable. All of the guilds I had been in (including the one where I had a lot of IRL friends) really discouraged me from playing that way, saying "it's not optimal" "it's not viable" and so forth. This lead me to play the game in the way I didn't want to, but I wanted to still raid, so it had to be done.

So when GW2 started to get into that, especially with DnT (a notable hardcore MMO guild in other games) fine-tuning the raid for ArenaNet in the beginning, I thought the same things were going to emerge here. I would be forced into playing something I didn't like, to change up the way I had enjoyed playing or worse, entirely be left out because I didn't "prepare for the raid" enough by having a specific stat set of gear, or what-have-you.

That type of drama, even though it didn't affect me personally, affected me by bringing back those thoughts and feelings from long ago. I had an aversion to the idea of even logging into the game if it was going to devolve into pigeonholing-nightmare-schedule-pocalypse.

I absolutely hate discussions of "meta" this and "meta" that. Nothing makes me more turned off than trying to figure out the max numbers of a specific build or what extra % I can get out of this ability. All of that stuff drives me nuts, and raiding naturally drives conversation toward that.

Yeah, that really sucks. I ended up in a similar situation in Monster Hunter, although it was more my fault. Basically, with Tri and 3U, when my friends and I played together we always played what weapon set we want, tuning our playstyles for the monster and for a bit of synergy with each other. But because you're fighting the same monsters anyway, we didn't care about being suboptimal. Monster Hunter is first, a very hard game to be absolutely optimal in, and second, a game where no one expects you to be close to optimal, just viable. GW2 blindsided me a bit when the dungeon meta became Berserker, and so many people jumped on it because, from my point of view, they mostly disliked dungeons for both their trash mobs and general length of encounters. People wanted to get in and get out quickly instead of savoring the combat in double the time. I will admit, it did also look like they were going at a frequency much higher than any person plays Monster Hunter, and the overall game of GW2 is easier than Monster Hunter.

Things changed for me when 4U came out. Basically, my friends ended up having more time to play than me, but their schedules aligned and mine didn't. So they played more with me, always played together, and from there they began to optimize at a higher level than before. They sped through the ranks. They spent their off time specifically farming certain monsters to get a new armor set ready. It could just be that they were directly using the experience from the previous games, but the end result was that when I did play with them, I felt mostly superfluous. They were inching more towards optimal, although it didn't seem that they could see it. And me being essentially underleveled meant that I wasn't having much fun seeing them complete a quest together I wouldn't be able to even take for a while longer, and then show up trying to speed me through a bunch of quests just so I could be on their level, but then I'd still have the weapon/armor grind to go through to actually get to that raw stat level that they wouldn't stick around for. And they already had more time to grind than me, so the only way I'd catch up is if I looked up upgrade trees and specifically grinded for only one weapon and armor set and funneled everything into one direction.

So I said fuck it. I played at my own leisure. I played with strangers. I collected every single weapon set I could and took my time doing it. And I started saying no to them alternatingly carrying me through fights before throwing me in over my head on one of their much harder quests, and trying to force me to catch up. I eventually lost interest in the game because even the single player started getting on my nerves on a level that Tri never did, and not being able to harmoniously play with my friends still left a hole in my heart that was almost as bad having negative experiences with them. But if another game comes out and a similar situation develops then I won't hesitate to cut and run even sooner. I have the time I have, and I'll play the game I way I want to play. If I really value getting something done, then I'll alter myself if even temporarily so that it can get done.

But, GW2 is a lot like Monster Hunter in ways. There are many paths to being viable. And I'm not about to replace my gear with toughness just because the stat isn't valued in one out of three modes of the game. That said, if I do finish a build with low toughness on a class soon then I'll join in on the newbie raid tomorrow night. I'd bring my Reaper to tank otherwise, but people probably don't want to see me approaching 3K total Armor.
 
I am interested in a newbie run of the raid this weekend if there are any who are willing to help! Kos, I don't know what time you were thinking but I haven't tried it yet myself.

I still haven't tried it yet and would like to give it a shot if you'll have me.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
I still haven't tried it yet and would like to give it a shot if you'll have me.

I probably come in to do the newbie raid run if you guys planning on it tomorrow evening.

I'm willing to help a newbie raid run this weekend if I'm available when it's scheduled.

Hey Hawk.
I was thinking of doing it right after the GMs.

I won last weeks mini lottery, correct?

Discounting Apple and Spiritfox as maybes that would be 5 folks.
 
If I'm available, I'll join the newbie raid. I'm sick of trying and failing with pug groups, but I won't hesitate to get another shot at it.
 

Ashodin

Member
I'm in for the newbie raid too.

Deposit/compact bags button too close. Anet realized this was an issue when a streamer complained about it. They are working on a solution. Not coming next Tuesday but coming soon (still need to test it).

Calling it now: a button that compacts separate and away from the gear icon.
 
The raid is very forgiving in terms of DPS and build requirements, and you can effectively play whatever you want (provided it's not completely terrible but that's true for everything in this game, not just raids).

Really? I wonder what changed then, between "Miktar, your build and the way you play is not suited for raids", and now this?

I quit raids, and GW2 mostly, because all the people I enjoyed playing with were telling me that the way I play (which got me to max Fractals), wasn't "good enough" (inbetween the lines).

So now I'm a bit confused.


That didn't come out right, and wasn't mean to be directed at apple.
 
Which is bullshit really, since when I tried the raid I was never being carried. My damage output was more than sufficient (I used DPS meters), and I was rarely the first to die, I could usually outlast everyone.

Eh, this is why raids fuck up communities. Whereas before, doing things was a group activity, overcoming odds, learning to play together, raids are the MOBA skill trench of MMOS. When shit goes wrong, gotta find that first scapegoat not doing everything by the Big Book of Meta as written by whichever guild is currently hot shit.
 
Really? I wonder what changed then, between "Miktar, your build and the way you play is not suited for raids", and now this?

I quit raids, and GW2 mostly, because all the people I enjoyed playing with were telling me that the way I play (which got me to max Fractals), wasn't "good enough" (inbetween the lines).

So now I'm a bit confused.

Did anyone actually say that to you?
 
There was direct talk about how I like to play a specific build and armour set (Celestial) wasn't going to cut it, and that because I wasn't really willing to change my stat set, it'd be okay if I didn't want to participate in raids anymore.

It was just bad timing and bad communication (since ironically, the day I got the message was the day I started planning to get an entirely new Ascended set with better suited stats, had DPS meters installed to make sure I was pulling my weight, etc)..

Honestly, I should have just stayed away from raids. I did several years of it, and history is repeating itself.

Fuck. All I wanted was more dungeons to play with friends, coop content that doesn't involve putting goddamn lucky charms on shit.
 
Is really a super hassle for you guys to run, a condi or dps or tank build of your choice? No one in the guild ever asked me to run specific set of skills. I just chose what I heard was successful from other groups and tried to get as close to it without spending any crazy amount of gold.

You guys need to chill the fuck out, judging the GW2 scene based on your previous experience and not the actual experience of trying it out for yourself.

It was bad enough when random people would drive by shit on the game on this thread but now members of our community do this on a daily basis like they have to fill some kind of quota.
 
You guys need to chill the fuck out, judging the GW2 scene based on your previous experience and not the actual experience of trying it out for yourself.

mR1JuIo.gif
 

nataku

Member
What the hell Cox, why would you send me an email saying I have the Zeus Trojan/bot. At nearly midnight, too. I can't detect it at all, and now I'm all paranoid about it.

Looks like I get to look forward to formatting my PC this weekend. I'll be too paranoid about it now.
 
You, Retro and Ashodin.

You said " judging the GW2 scene based on your previous experience and not the actual experience of trying it out for yourself".

Exactly what part did I not try for myself, if you wouldn't mind explaining.

I don't think we need to chill, I think you need to stop and think before commenting on shit you know jackall about.
 

xeris

Member
You said " judging the GW2 scene based on your previous experience and not the actual experience of trying it out for yourself".

Exactly what part did I not try for myself, if you wouldn't mind explaining.

I don't think we need to chill, I think you need to stop and think before commenting on shit you know jackall about.

The funny thing he doesn't realize is he just proved y'alls point.
 
You said " judging the GW2 scene based on your previous experience and not the actual experience of trying it out for yourself".

Exactly what part did I not try for myself, if you wouldn't mind explaining.

I don't think we need to chill, I think you need to stop and think before commenting on shit you know jackall about.
The raid not general GW2.
 
....

I've done the raid. Several times.

So what the hell are you talking about?
Talking about the complaining that goes on this thread day in day out about the raid. There is probably more posts about how you guys hate the raid then there are actual combined raid attempts.
 
Talking about the complaining that goes on this thread day in day out about the raid. There is probably more posts about how you guys hate the raid then there are actual combined raid attempts.

You're right. There should be zero discussion about the raid, issues with it, the impact of it on the culture and community, its design, what it holds for the future of the game, etc.

You're full of it, Kos. You do realize that, right?

But keep backpedaling on your insinuation that the only people who complain are ones who haven't done the raid.

I am after all, the game's worst critic, having done nothing but slam it since day 1, right? :p
 

xeris

Member
Talking about the complaining that goes on this thread day in day out about the raid. There is probably more posts about how you guys hate the raid then there are actual combined raid attempts.

You don't actually read this thread do you? You just kinda randomly post and see what sticks. Or is it that the swag you've gotten has bought you off so you feel like you have to defend the game no matter what?
 
You're right. There should be zero discussion about the raid, issues with it, the impact of it on the culture and community, its design, what it holds for the future of the game, etc.

You're full of it, Kos. You do realize that, right?

But keep backpedaling on your insinuation that the only people who complain are ones who haven't done the raid.

I am after all, the game's worst critic, having done nothing but slam it since day 1, right? :p

You guys starting to sound like that guy who used to complain about SAB all the time.

Going to do a noobie raid run tonight with GAF?

You don't actually read this thread do you? You just kinda randomly post and see what sticks. Or is it that the swag you've gotten has bought you off so you feel like you have to defend the game no matter what?
The more shirts I get the more defending I'll do. It's the agreement between Colin and I.
 

xeris

Member
The more shirts I get the more defending I'll do. It's the agreement between Colin and I.

You do realize you can get banned from NeoGAF for being a paid shill right? I mean it's nice you admit it and all, but really you might not want to admit that publicly.
 
You do realize you can get banned from NeoGAF for being a paid shill right? I mean it's nice you admit it and all, but really you might not want to admit that publicly.

I wouldn't go that far. Kos has never been a paid shill for the game, and has done his fair share of kvetching in the past. I think he's just taking the mickey.
 

xeris

Member
I wouldn't go that far. Kos has never been a paid shill for the game, and has done his fair share of kvetching in the past. I think he's just taking the mickey.

Eh, Kos has never been serious about anything to the point where I've learned not to believe word one that he says. If he says the sky is blue I'd want two other people to verify it.
 
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