Support NeoGAF

[XeroSauce]

How is it coasting through lower level content?

Did you coast through explore mode at 35 with level 35 gear? No? Then why would it be different?



Yes, that sums it up. "BOOHOO YOU HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH GEAR," and then people in this thread saying don't buy karma gear while leveling, just save it up. Lol.

Yea exactly.

Since peopel are saying that you DON'T have to keep up with karma gear from level 40, level 60 etc. and just save up..then why do you get punished for it for going back to a LEVEL 30 content area that you've already completed/outleveled?

My earlier question still stand though.

 

[Einbroch]

I just did AC as a level 34 with all my gear being below level 30. It was hard, but I don't think I pulled my group down. So I don't think you'll be pulling down your friend.

If the argument is you don't like scaling period, that's fine and perfectly valid. But expecting to get upgrades from a level 35 instance at level 80 without level 80ish gear is just silly to me because the instance essentially becomes a level 80 instance.

 

[kayos90]

To answer your question, you will always get drops relative to your level. So whatever you were getting in the zone you're at, unless you're playing in a higher level area, is what you'll get.

Edit: The whole scaling is that it's meant to punish you across the board if you're punished for where you are now. If you're lvl 80 with lvl 70 gear doing a lvl 80 zone you should be punished.

If you go to a lvl 40 zone, your gear should reflect your position in lvl 80 number wise. Meaning, your gear would be lvl 35. This is the whole point of scaling. Just because you're going to a lower level doesn't mean you're exempt from being punished. If you do have gear adequate to reflect your level for playing in a certain area, why should it be any different for a situation that is proportionalized to a lower level?

Now granted, there is a huge flaw with this type of scaling system design wise. It only reflects scaling in terms of number. Anything that doesn't do with numbers gets thrown out of the equation. Such as the availability of skills and traits etc. So.... yeah. I don't know if I like that or if it's a good design but I consider it to be a flaw.

ALSO, the differing perspectives of scaling was never based on being right or wrong. It's about preference. You either like ANet's view or you don't. Simple as that. My whole purpose was to disprove why your idea of scaling is not considered scaling in ANet's terms. If it didn't come across like that then I'm sorry. If I made assumptions on your stance and ANet's stance then I apologize for that well.

 

[GatorFan]

People are crying about scaling because they are used to WoW and want a free ride. This is a different game...get over it. I'm having fun questing in a newbie area and being scaled down. Killing everything with ease.

 

[PatzCU]

EDIT: My question is, if you are a level 80 going into a level 30 dungeon with level 70 gear, what kind of gear drops? Level 30, level 70, or level 80?

You are getting Level 80 gear, so you ARE being rewarded, but you are also being challenged for going into that dungeon with gear that isn't up to speed with your level.

 

[Dina]

Oh no, we have to maintain our gear. What a crime.

I've found that maintaining my leveling gear is a tad harder in this game since it's mostly dependent on drops. Sure I can make some nice staffs with Artificer and Amulets with Jeweler, but that is only a few slots covered.

The rest I have to find through sheer luck since quest-rewards are just coins (except zone clear and a personal story quests), or buy it through the TP. If you can't want to TP, or maybe it's down again, you're stuck with getting lucky drops or hopyfully a helping guildee with more luck.

And to add on top of that, there are a lot more item types then the average MMO, so the chance of getting a item for a needed slot, on top of having desirable stats, is less than in other MMO's.

I don't mean this negative per se, but getting proper leveled items without stepping into the Trading Post every five levels isn't as easy as you all are making it out to be.

 

[fluffydelusions]

To answer your question, you will always get drops relative to your level. So whatever you were getting in the zone you're at, unless you're playing in a higher level area, is what you'll get.

The whole scaling is that it's meant to punish you across the board if you're punished for where you are now. If you're lvl 80 with lvl 70 gear doing a lvl 80 zone you should be punished.

If you go to a lvl 40 zone, your gear should reflect your position in lvl 80 number wise. Meaning, your gear would be lvl 35. This is the whole point of scaling. Just because you're going to a lower level doesn't mean you're exempt from being punished. If you do have gear adequate to reflect your level for playing in a certain area, why should it be any different for a situation that is proportionalized to a lower level?

Yeah...I was disappointed doing the last dungeon (level 80) and I got some thing that gives you 3 random items or whatever. I got crap gear I'm talking less than level 20

 

[Einbroch]

The fact remains that if you enter a dungeon at level 80 it is now a level 80 dungeon, no matter what the number in the corner says. Because it is level 80, you should have level 80ish gear.

 

[Fivefold]

People are just not used to having to actually always play the content, they see low level content as an obstacle you have to cross, not as, you know, the game you play.

You notice this kind of thinking a lot in this thread, with folks saying that they're just gonna save their karma for when they are 80, etc... Which is pretty much the dumbest thing you can ever do in this game unless you're a hardcore power leveler (you get super nice good looking cheap karma gear from heart vendors all game, and karma rewards go way up once you hit 80, so you're not saving any relevant amount).

 

[kayos90]

I've found that maintaining my leveling gear is a tad harder in this game since it's mostly dependent on drops. Sure I can make some nice staffs with Artificer and Amulets with Jeweler, but that is only a few slots covered.

The rest I have to find through sheer luck since quest-rewards are just coins (except zone clear and a personal story quests), or buy it through the TP. If you can't want to TP, or maybe it's down again, you're stuck with getting lucky drops or hopyfully a helping guildee with more luck.

And to add on top of that, there are a lot more item types then the average MMO, so the chance of getting a item for a needed slot, on top of having desirable stats, is less than in other MMO's.

I don't mean this negative per se, but getting proper leveled items without stepping into the Trading Post every five levels isn't as easy as you all are making it out to be.

Yup. A major flaw that rears its head because of ANet's view of scaling. There are a lot of flaws that stands out due to design choices. lol.

 

[XeroSauce]

You are getting Level 80 gear, so you ARE being rewarded, but you are also being challenged for going into that dungeon with gear that isn't up to speed with your level.

The fact remains that if you enter a dungeon at level 80 it is now a level 80 dungeon, no matter what the number in the corner says. Because it is level 80, you should have level 80ish gear.

Okay, then is fine then. If the loot is level 80, then you are "essentially" playing a level 80 dungeon, and therefore you should be punished for not equipping properly.

The content is level 30, but the rewards are level 80, so yea. If you got level 80 rewards with any old gear without being punished for it, then you can abuse lower-level dungeons/areas for loot, that wouldn't make sense.

 

[Hawkian]

People are just not used to having to actually always play the content, they see low level content as an obstacle you have to cross, not as, you know, the game you play.

You notice this kind of thinking a lot in this thread, with folks saying that they're just gonna save their karma for when they are 80, etc... Which is pretty much the dumbest thing you can ever do in this game unless you're a hardcore power leveler (you get super nice good looking cheap karma gear from heart vendors all game, and karma rewards go way up once you hit 80, so you're not saving any relevant amount).

Agreed heartily...

 

[thetrin]

Yea exactly.

Since peopel are saying that you DON'T have to keep up with karma gear from level 40, level 60 etc. and just save up..then why do you get punished for it for going back to a LEVEL 30 content area that you've already completed/outleveled?

My earlier question still stand though.

This is exactly why I said saving your karma is bad advice like 5 pages back. People jumped on me about it, and this is why.

You get karma all the time after 80. Saving your karma is a waste, and you miss out on good gear. Don't listen to people who say that, because it's bad advice. It was bad advice 5 pages ago, it is bad advice now, and for the foreseeable future, it will still be bad advice.

And for christ's sakes, don't listen to people who got to 80 doing dolyak runs and cooking on how you should spend your hard earned karma. Spend the karma on good upgrades, have an easier time, and enjoy the content. Karma is not a finite resource. Saving it is not worth the pain.

 

[inky]

People are just not used to having to actually always play the content, they see low level content as an obstacle you have to cross, not as, you know, the game you play.

You notice this kind of thinking a lot in this thread, with folks saying that they're just gonna save their karma for when they are 80, etc... Which is pretty much the dumbest thing you can ever do in this game unless you're a hardcore power leveler (you get super nice good looking cheap karma gear from heart vendors all game, and karma rewards go way up once you hit 80, so you're not saving any relevant amount).

Except you get like 400 karma at most per event at level 80, while the armor we are talking about is 42k karma a piece, so that's 100 events you have to do per piece at level 80 if you spent it all. When I got to level 80 I had 47k karma spending about 3-4k in the way. People are telling others to save most of their karma because you level so fast in the game that what the karma vendors offer you is going to be obsolete that very same day, not because the low level content is unimportant. And in the end you'll probably want some of the level 80 exotic gear and wished you'd saved some along the way. You can get to level 80 and do the dungeons (not explorable mode) mostly with found gear just fine.

It's more of a warning for folks who want the gods armor than a rule. It's definitely not dumb advice and has little to do with what is being discussed here.

 

[JustProgress]

It's not punishing because you ARE SCALED.

HOLY FREAKING SHIT. ARE PEOPLE NOT READING AND UNDERSTANDING?

YOU ARE BEING SCALED. Do you guys know what scaled means?! If you are not having your stats, items, and levels brought down across all things then YOU. ARE. NOT. BEING. SCALED. What's the point of calling it scaling if you're not going to be scaled. Stop trying to assert that your view is right and call it scaling. IT'S NOT SCALING.

Fuck it. I give up. You guys don't understand the definition of scaling. This is stupid.

I think it's because people are arguing that the scaling should be changed. You can't answer with "well, scaling".

 

[CornBurrito]

Oh no, we have to maintain our gear. What a crime.

But save your karma for the very end.

Also wouldn't you having more trait points in general balance out the scaling of your armor?

 

[thetrin]

I think it's because people are arguing that the scaling should be changed. You can't answer with "well, scaling".

They want it to be changed so that your gear isn't scaled, which is silly. What is the point of scaling if you're only scaling innate stats?

But save your karma for the very end.

Fuck it. I'm spending my karma on gear now. I have no problem grinding karma later. I enjoy events. I'll do them until I'm blue in the face.

 

[JustProgress]

So why are people outraged? Makes sense to me.

Take this for example. If you had a level 50 sword at level 50 and went to a level 50 dungeon, you wouldn't be scaled. Say at level 80 you only have a level 72 weapon and go back to that level 50 dungeon, you are now worse than you were when you first visited.

They want it to be changed so that your gear isn't scaled, which is silly. What is the point of scaling if you're only scaling innate stats?

You can scale the equipment just not below the level of the zone. I tried to explain it above

 

[CornBurrito]

Fuck it. I'm spending my karma on gear now. I have no problem grinding karma later. I enjoy events. I'll do them until I'm blue in the face.

I completely agree by the way.

 

[thetrin]

I completely agree by the way.

Word. *high-five*

Take this for example. If you had a level 50 sword at level 50 and went to a level 50 dungeon, you wouldn't be scaled. Say at level 80 you only have a level 72 weapon and go back to that level 50 dungeon, you are now worse than you were when you first visited.

I don't see how that's unfair. The point of scaling is to make everything scale to your level, and remain a challenge. If you're not up to date on your gear at 80, you're not up to date at 80, plain and simple.

I don't think anyone would have a problem if things scaled up instead of players scaling down.

 

[Hawkian]

Take this for example. If you had a level 50 sword at level 50 and went to a level 50 dungeon, you wouldn't be scaled. Say at level 80 you only have a level 72 weapon and go back to that level 50 dungeon, you are now worse than you were when you first visited.

But the dungeon drops level 80 gear (cue another three page carousel)

Hawkian the Blade online with fresh GAFO invites for all who might want them

 

[kayos90]

I think it's because people are arguing that the scaling should be changed. You can't answer with "well, scaling".

I'm not arguing that "well, scaling." If I did then I suck and I failed to portray my stance clearly. My point was to explain why ANet's scaling is the more definitive version of scaling than another's. Rather, it's more detailed since it includes more variables into the mix.

 

[JustProgress]

But the dungeon drops level 80 gear (cue another three page carousel)

Hawkian the Blade online with fresh GAFO invites for all who might want them

So you shouldn't be able to get 80 gear if you don't already have it? Or is the argument, you can level down to 50 with crappy 70ish gear then get 80s?

 

[kayos90]

So you shouldn't be able to get 80 gear if you don't already have it? Or is the argument, you can level down to 50 with crappy 70ish gear then get 80s?

The point is that you have gear that is not proper for your level and the zone that is designated for your level. Why should this be the case in a lower level scaled situation?

 

[JustProgress]

The point is that you have gear that is not proper for your level and the zone that is designated for your level. Why should this be the case in a lower level scaled situation?

Yeah, but as I said above then you're at a disadvantage from your level 50 self assuming you were geared properly.

 

[shysaursoft]

I think it's because people are arguing that the scaling should be changed. You can't answer with "well, scaling".

People often want the things they don't like, to be changed. Doesn't mean it's a good idea for the whole.

 

[Fivefold]

This is exactly why I said saving your karma is bad advice like 5 pages back. People jumped on me about it, and this is why.

You get karma all the time after 80. Saving your karma is a waste, and you miss out on good gear. Don't listen to people who say that, because it's bad advice. It was bad advice 5 pages ago, it is bad advice now, and for the foreseeable future, it will still be bad advice.

And for christ's sakes, don't listen to people who got to 80 doing dolyak runs and cooking on how you should spend your hard earned karma. Spend the karma on good upgrades, have an easier time, and enjoy the content. Karma is not a finite resource. Saving it is not worth the pain.

A good post.

This weekend (when the TP was up for a reasonable time), I managed to fully equip my level 30 necro, including accessories, rings and gems, plus a few pieces of karma armor to round up my build. Man, when I went got out of Ebonhawke to kill stuff it was almost like a different game. Did AC, had a great time, I felt challenged, but certainly not to the point of frustration, had such a great time I pretty much forgot about leveling.

The game certainly rewards you if you play it to the fullest, don't gimp your fun by trying to rush to the fun part when there's no fun part, just fun whole.

 

[Spookie]

And once again, your fallacy is in the idea that "under-geared" exists. The game is far too complex of a beast to shoehorn every character into a role where having level-matching gear is necessary.

You can be undergeared. My ele was under geared and getting CRUNCHED by mobs because it's a piss weak class as it is without my 20 levels below gear. Putting in new items and gems allowed me to cull mobs in half the time.

 

[Littlegator]

The point is that you have gear that is not proper for your level and the zone that is designated for your level. Why should this be the case in a lower level scaled situation?

Because gear level is independent of character level.

 

[kayos90]

Yeah, but as I said above then you're at a disadvantage from your level 50 self assuming you were geared properly.

Yes. Sorry. I must've missed an assumption. Why exactly is this bad?

Because gear level is independent of character level.

While your gear level might be independent of your character level in the sense that you can wear whatever you want as long as you meet the level requirement, the concept and idea that you're not geared properly for your level remains. if you're not geared properly for your level, then you're not going to be geared properly for any level you scale down to.

People often want the things they don't like, to be changed. Doesn't mean it's a good idea for the whole.

The same applies for vice versa.

 

[Fivefold]

Except you get like 400 karma at most per event at level 80, while the armor we are talking about is 42k karma a piece, so that's 100 events you have to do per piece at level 80 if you spent it all. When I got to level 80 I had 47k karma spending about 3-4k in the way. People are telling others to save most of their karma because you level so fast in the game that what the karma vendors offer you is going to be obsolete that very same day, not because the low level content is unimportant. And in the end you'll probably want some of the level 80 exotic gear and wished you'd saved some along the way. You can get to level 80 and do the dungeons (not explorable mode) mostly with found gear just fine.

It's more of a warning for folks who want the gods armor than a rule. It's definitely not dumb advice and has little to do with what is being discussed here.

It has everything to do with what's being discussed here. Low level karma gear is the easiest way to keep your gear up-to-date, and a lot of people are ignoring it and having a lesser leveling experience, while trying to save for a vanity endgame armor that even with the savings, will take a lot of farming to attain anyway.

 

[Deitus]

Say for instance someone leveled up to 60 doing only 1-30 content. That's fully possible in this game, and in theory not discouraged in any way.

But now at level 60 they don't really have access to level 60 gear in the way a level 30 player has access to level 30 gear. If they've never done any level 50+ hearts, they can't use heart vendors to gear up, and they won't have level 50+ crafting materials dropping to be able to craft level 50+ gear. They can still get the occasional level appropriate drop, and buy level appropriate items on the trading post, but the fact remains that they have less available options for properly gearing up than a player who exclusively plays content at their level.

I'm kind of in this boat (okay, I'm only 10-15 levels ahead of the content I'm playing). I haven't really had any problems where I feel like I'm undergeared, largely because smart play trumps stats except in extreme stat differences.

Still, it feels wrong to me that the scaling system basically punishes you for doing low level content when it's supposed to be designed to make low level content more fun. Basically, if leveling up without a comparable gear upgrade makes you weaker, then every level earned in an area lower than your level will make you weaker. And every bit of experienced earned from an activity that doesn't provide you with new equipment (points of interest, vistas, achivements other than dailies/monthlies, cooking, etc.) is actually detrimental rather then beneficial. I can't say I like that philosophy.

 

[shysaursoft]

The same applies for vice versa.

That goes without saying. But the amount of people who think "add more guns" is solid design, outnumber the people who actually know what the hell weapon balance is.

But now at level 60 they don't really have access to level 60 gear in the way a level 30 player has access to level 30 gear. If they've never done any level 50+ hearts, they can't use heart vendors to gear up, and they won't have level 50+ crafting materials dropping to be able to craft level 50+ gear. They can still get the occasional level appropriate drop, and buy level appropriate items on the trading post, but the fact remains that they have less available options for properly gearing up than a player who exclusively plays content at their level.

Weaponsmiths and Armoursmiths scale with you. What they sell, is always perfect for your level, even if it is plain.

Just because the first time you looked at one, they only sold Level 5 gear/weapons, for example, doesn't mean they're ALWAYS selling Level 5 gear. If you go back at level 50, they have level 50 gear and weapons.

The idea being, even if you powerlevel via crafting to 60, you can easily (and comparatively cheaply) get full armour and weapons for your level, before even leaving the city. And they don't even cost karma, just silver/copper, which is easy to get if you're a crafter.

Not many people realize this.

 

[shysaursoft]

Post de-double. Poop.

 

[Piecake]

A good post.

This weekend (when the TP was up for a reasonable time), I managed to fully equip my level 30 necro, including accessories, rings and gems, plus a few pieces of karma armor to round up my build. Man, when I went got out of Ebonhawke to kill stuff it was almost like a different game. Did AC, had a great time, I felt challenged, but certainly not to the point of frustration, had such a great time I pretty much forgot about leveling.

The game certainly rewards you if you play it to the fullest, don't gimp your fun by trying to rush to the fun part when there's no fun part, just fun whole.

Yea, gear right now is so stupidly cheap that its silly not to upgrade by using the TP. Pently of gear is being sold only 1c above the vendor price. After youre done, just vendor it (or salvage) and you only lost 1c

 

[mackaveli]

about the scaling thing,

All I'll say is are you guys who are lets say lvl 70-80 doing lvl 30 content with a friend really getting owned?

I can go into any zone as a lvl 80 (and I just hit lvl 80, before when I was only maybe 5-10 levels higher then the zone I was still doing well) that is 70 or below and totally wreck mobs and pretty much take on 4 mobs as once as a ranger and not even worry about dying.

I do the CM dungeon quite a bit as it takes 15 minutes or so and you get 13silver and some loot and the dungeon is a piece of cake.

I even did the CM explorable dungeon as a lvl 50 with 4 other people less then 50 and scaled to 45 and yeah it was hard but we passed it and I didn't think I was punished.

And the exp you gain from mobs, waypoints, point of interest, etc., are higher when you kills these mobs in areas that are 1-10, 15-25, 30-40, etc, I don't see the problem.

If you were getting crappy exp etc., then I would argue but the fact is you are getting exp that is dependent on your level makes it so you can do these low level areas that are still a challenge and level up accordingly.

Don't see the problem.

 

[inky]

It has everything to do with what's being discussed here. Low level karma gear is the easiest way to keep your gear up-to-date, and a lot of people are ignoring it and having a lesser leveling experience, while trying to save for a vanity endgame armor that even with the savings, will take a lot of farming to attain anyway.

Well, that depends on the player honestly and has only been a problem due to the TP not working. People are talking like the only way to getting to 80 without buying karma gear is doing Dolyaks over and over which is simply untrue and greatly exaggerated. I never did any of those things, saved most of my karma and didn't have a lesser leveling experience at all. It is still good advice to save most, if not for the exotic gear, for the level 70-80 hearts at least because items become more and more expensive.

It's not only "vanity gear" either, it's level 80 exotic gear with better base stats, exactly what you need for going back to those dungeons people are talking about. Even with a full exotic level 80 gear explorable mode is going to kick your ass, that is the point. It is going to cost you either karma or a ton of gold and if you spend it all along the way either in micro upgrades or other stuff then you are going to have a lesser post-level 80 experience when going back to lower level areas, exactly why some people are complaining here They just don't know because they haven't got there yet.

Bottom line, the advice has always been: "be smart about karma because it's a valuable currency", not "hoard every bit of it at the expense of your character" like people are implying.

 

[Ferrio]

Say for instance someone leveled up to 60 doing only 1-30 content. That's fully possible in this game, and in theory not discouraged in any way.

But now at level 60 they don't really have access to level 60 gear in the way a level 30 player has access to level 30 gear. [ If they've never done any level 50+ hearts, they can't use heart vendors to gear up, and they won't have level 50+ crafting materials dropping to be able to craft level 50+ gear.

What?

They can still get the occasional level appropriate drop, and buy level appropriate items on the trading post, but the fact remains that they have less available options for properly gearing up than a player who exclusively plays content at their level.

Uh how? They have the exact same options.

I'm kind of in this boat (okay, I'm only 10-15 levels ahead of the content I'm playing). I haven't really had any problems where I feel like I'm undergeared, largely because smart play trumps stats except in extreme stat differences.

Still, it feels wrong to me that the scaling system basically punishes you for doing low level content when it's supposed to be designed to make low level content more fun. Basically, if leveling up without a comparable gear upgrade makes you weaker, then every level earned in an area lower than your level will make you weaker. And every bit of experienced earned from an activity that doesn't provide you with new equipment (points of interest, vistas, achivements other than dailies/monthlies, cooking, etc.) is actually detrimental rather then beneficial. I can't say I like that philosophy.

You're only weaker cause you're not getting new gear. There's TP, there's drops, there's boss fights, there's trading among guildies, there's cultural vendors, there's regular vendors. There's magnitudes of ways to get gear that's still your current level... if you're ignoring them then that's on your head.

There's no punishment going on for doing the lower levels. They are punishing you for ignoring natural gear progression.

 

[Artanisix]

People are just not used to having to actually always play the content, they see low level content as an obstacle you have to cross, not as, you know, the game you play.

...No? I enjoy the exploration modes and I enjoy the challenge of it. Where are all these crazy assumptions coming from. I just don't agree with how I'm now weaker than I was at 35 when tackling AC Exploration. I don't agree with the idea that you could be properly geared for a dungeon, and then you go and quest a little, gain some levels, change none of your gear and now you are somehow not geared for a dungeon. That's backwards to me, and nowhere does the game explain that to their players.

And once again, AC tokens (which is the whole point the majority of people are playing explore mode) doesn't even reward level 80 gear. It's level 60 gear.

Still, it feels wrong to me that the scaling system basically punishes you for doing low level content when it's supposed to be designed to make low level content more fun. Basically, if leveling up without a comparable gear upgrade makes you weaker, then every level earned in an area lower than your level will make you weaker. And every bit of experienced earned from an activity that doesn't provide you with new equipment (points of interest, vistas, achivements other than dailies/monthlies, cooking, etc.) is actually detrimental rather then beneficial. I can't say I like that philosophy.

Yep.

 

[shysaursoft]

I'll say it again, just to reiterate: weaponsmiths and armoursmiths in cities, scale with your level. They sell level appropriate gear, for your level. You can always get base (slightly plain) gear for your level, for relatively cheap. No karma needed.

...nowhere does the game explain that to their players.

This is the one I can agree with. The things the game does NOT explain to players, could fill a book. I've seen people in large guilds, not realize you can build.... banners. That give you bonuses to XP and mat harvesting.

Guild Wars 2 does lack more hands-on stuff, more visual indicators of things. But it's nothing you can't figure out by paying attention. But since most players are just glued to the minimap, chasing POI to POI...

I once saw a player whining in map chat for 30 minutes about not knowing how to get to a vista point... when the entrance to the cave to get there, was six feet to his right. But no, he was affixed to the vista point in front of him, and only a straight line to it would be acceptable. Exploring? Taking your time to look around? That's for chumps. RACE TO 80, COMPLETE, CONSUME!

Pleh

EDIT: Half the time I see people failing at anything in Guild Wars 2, it's because they're incompetent. Not because the game is hard, or obfuscates things. But, given enough time, they'll learn. Or they'll quit. Either way, the problem sorts itself out. I'm not saying things can't be designed better, but a lot of people tend to whine first, learn second.

 

[Littlegator]

I'm not arguing that "well, scaling." If I did then I suck and I failed to portray my stance clearly. My point was to explain why ANet's scaling is the more definitive version of scaling than another's. Rather, it's more detailed since it includes more variables into the mix.

And that argument is wrong, or at least totally subjective and up to the language.

The only difference in our arguments is that scaling should be done separately on gear and character level, because gear and character level are not necessarily dependent upon each other.

It does not make sense, and it is not preferable, to most players to have adventured for 80 more hours than someone else, and their awesome chainsaw sword they got from a dragon underperforms some level 30's worn bronze sword, and the sole reason for that is because you're a higher level.

Scaling is cool, and I totally want it, but there still needs to be some sense of long-term progression. What I'm talking about isn't even empowering people. It's making them exactly as competent as an appropriately geared lower level.

 

[Hawkian]

Guys, it's always trivially easy to get decent armor for your level. Just talk to the main armorsmith in a city or whatever. It will always be level appropriate.

 

[thetrin]

There's no punishment going on for doing the lower levels. They are punishing you for ignoring natural gear progression.

Exactly what I was saying.

 

[Ferrio]

Scaling is cool, and I totally want it, but there still needs to be some sense of long-term progression. What I'm talking about isn't even <i>empowering</i> people. It's making them <i>exactly as competent</i> as an appropriately geared lower level.

But you're asking to be given something free that lvl 30 had to work for. That level 30 had to invest money/time/whatever to get lvl 30 weapons to run that dungeon. Just because you're higher level doesn't mean you shouldn't have to put in the same time/effort to be properly geared for a dungeon. You should always treat a dungeon as if it's YOUR LEVEL, because that's what it essentially is.

 

[Varna]

On the level scaling topic... that does kind of suck.

I agree that you should have decent gear to handle dungeons. They are meant to be challenging and for the more experienced players. But the thing about this game is that you level so damn fast. It's really hard to keep up with all the upgrades.

I don't know what a possible solution could be unfortunately.

 

[staticneuron]

I'll say it again, just to reiterate: weaponsmiths and armoursmiths in cities, scale with your level. They sell level appropriate gear, for your level. You can always get base (slightly plain) gear for your level, for relatively cheap. No karma needed.

It matters where you are as well because some vendors sell above your level. So you cannot just go to "any" vendor and expect them to be within range.

I once saw a player whining in map chat for 30 minutes about not knowing how to get to a vista point... when the entrance to the cave to get there, was six feet to his right. But no, he was affixed to the vista point in front of him, and only a straight line to it would be acceptable. Exploring? Taking your time to look around? That's for chumps. RACE TO 80, COMPLETE, CONSUME!

I play with 5 characters, all different races and all different starting area's. The worst imo was metrica province. There is one area, you need to go to the complete opposite side of the map to find a portal. Awesome when I found out, horrible when doing several sucide runs trying to figure it out.

 

[Littlegator]

But you're asking to be given something free that lvl 30 had to work for. That level 30 had to invest money/time/whatever to get lvl 30 weapons to run that dungeon. Just because you're higher level doesn't mean you shouldn't have to put in the same time/effort to be properly geared for a dungeon. You should always treat a dungeon as if it's YOUR LEVEL, because it is.

You put way more effort getting your awesome dragon sword from an end-game area than that level 30 did.

Not to mention, when you were level 30, you already did all of that work to be geared for that dungeon.

Actually, I want you to find anyone who is competently geared without spending karma. It doesn't happen. You clear areas, you fight bosses, you do events, but shit doesn't matter. You're just going to keep getting those acolyte gloves and shortbows that you can't use on your warrior anyways.

If they want people to maintain gear, they should put better channels in for getting gear you can use.

 

[speedpop]

Some players seem to be forgetting that this game is going to be around for a few years. You don't need to nail down 100% today or tomorrow.

 

[shysaursoft]

Some players seem to be forgetting that this game is going to be around for a few years. You don't need to nail down 100% today or tomorrow.

Quote. For. Expletive. Emphasis.

It really is a race to the bottom right now in the game, with people stressed to 100%, level 80, get best gear. There's no journey, it's all destination.

 

[Hawkian]

It's really hard to keep up with all the upgrades.

Nuh uh! It takes one trip to your local armorsmith