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[Ferrio]

You put way more effort getting your awesome dragon sword from an end-game area than that level 30 did.

You don't need awesome dragon sword the 4th to complete the dungeon. Just a level appropriate items.

Not to mention, when you were level 30, you already did all of that work to be geared for that dungeon.

So after you complete dungeons you just stop getting item/weapons? Also, ya you put in the work at lvl 30, and the dungeon gave you lvl 30 items in return as your reward. Now it's giving you lvl 80 items, and it expects you to have worked to be able to earn them.

 

[Deitus]

Uh how? They have the exact same options.

Not all of the same options. Again, no access to level appropriate heart vendors or crafting materials.

You're only weaker cause you're not getting new gear. There's TP, there's drops, there's boss fights, there's trading among guildies, there's cultural vendors, there's regular vendors. There's magnitudes of ways to get gear that's still your current level... if you're ignoring them then that's on your head.

There's no punishment going on for doing the lower levels. They are punishing you for ignoring natural gear progression.

That's fine, but the natural gear progression is inherently different depending on how you level up. If you only play in level appropriate areas, you can rely on drops and heart vendors to keep your gear up to date. If you are in a low level zone, you get some level appropriate drops, but most are still low level, and nothing a heart vendor sells is worthwhile to you. You pretty much have to rely on trading post to get decently geared because chances are the majority of level appropriate drops are going to be unusable by your class, and the ones that aren't won't have the stats you want.

Weaponsmiths and Armoursmiths scale with you. What they sell, is always perfect for your level, even if it is plain.

Just because the first time you looked at one, they only sold Level 5 gear/weapons, for example, doesn't mean they're ALWAYS selling Level 5 gear. If you go back at level 50, they have level 50 gear and weapons.

The idea being, even if you powerlevel via crafting to 60, you can easily (and comparatively cheaply) get full armour and weapons for your level, before even leaving the city. And they don't even cost karma, just silver/copper, which is easy to get if you're a crafter.

Not many people realize this.

Guys, it's always trivially easy to get decent armor for your level. Just talk to the main armorsmith in a city or whatever. It will always be level appropriate.

That's great and all, but do they sell anything besides generic white items that only have base attack/armor? Because there's a huge difference between a level 30 white item, and a level 30 green with +Power +Precision and a rune/sigil attached.

 

[kayos90]

And that argument is wrong, or at least totally subjective and up to the language.

The only difference in our arguments is that scaling should be done separately on gear and character level, because gear and character level are not necessarily dependent upon each other.

It does not make sense, and it is not preferable, to most players to have adventured for 80 more hours than someone else, and their awesome chainsaw sword they got from a dragon underperforms some level 30's worn bronze sword, and the sole reason for that is because you're a higher level.

Scaling is cool, and I totally want it, but there still needs to be some sense of long-term progression. What I'm talking about isn't even empowering people. It's making them exactly as competent as an appropriately geared lower level.

No, it's not. And no I'm not wrong. I told you it wasn't about what's wrong or not. It's about what the definition is. If you're going to keep throwing out words such as "I'm wrong" and such then I'm not going to have a proper discussion about this. Why bother having a proper discussion if the other party isn't willing to engage in a proper rhetorical discussion. I don't care to see eye-to-eye with some who is throwing a ball at a brick wall hoping that it sticks.

 

[leng jai]

Quote. For. Expletive. Emphasis.

It really is a race to the bottom right now in the game, with people stressed to 100%, level 80, get best gear. There's no journey, it's all destination.

I've had the game since launch and am only at level 19 with no alts. I feel like I've been playing at a reasonable rate as well.

 

[Varna]

Nuh uh! It takes one trip to your local armorsmith

I hate using plain generic armor though.

 

[BrettWeir]

Some players seem to be forgetting that this game is going to be around for a few years. You don't need to nail down 100% today or tomorrow.

1000000000000000 x this. I cant believe people are already bitching about grinding for temple gear. Jesus....the game is brand new.

 

[Ashodin]

I'm reading the past few pages of the thread and I'm glad this discussion resolved itself.

To prevent future misunderstandings and lay it out in a simple manner:


If you are wearing Level 80 gear at L80, you will be "geared" for any challenge the game scales you down for.

If you are wearing Level 70 gear at L80, you will be "undergeared" for any challenge.

This is because the game scales you and considers your L70 gear at L30 challenges to be "Level 25 gear". This is why you take more damage or deal less. You have to maintain your gear instead of saving for something better. My entire character's progression to Level 80 was buying pieces here and there at karma vendors.

Buying pieces at karma vendors or heartkarma vendors is where you get the unique skins (which a lot of people are frustrated with not finding in this thread) and the stats you need to progress more efficiently

Exactly like thetrin said, DO NOT listen to advice from those who have powerleveled themselves - they have ignored the natural progression of the game to get straight to end-game, which is not the reason to play the game in the first place.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Ferrio]

Not all of the same options. Again, no access to level appropriate heart vendors or crafting materials.

But they've been getting drops along the way, as well as the TP (which is up), and level completition items etc. There's no lack of gear available.

 

[Littlegator]

You don't need awesome dragon sword the 4th to complete the dungeon. Just a level appropriate items.



So after you complete dungeons you just stop getting item/weapons? Also, ya you put in the work at lvl 30, and the dungeon gave you lvl 30 items in return as your reward. Now it's giving you lvl 80 items, and it expects you to have worked to be able to earn them.

totally possible situation

1) spend effort gearing for AC, has badass gear at level 30, do AC
2) craft to level 50, go straight back to AC, be detrimental to your team

You still can't defend this. It's horseshit that leveling by crafting is encouraged but punished, and you know it.

 

[Ferrio]

totally possible situation

1) spend effort gearing for AC, has badass gear at level 30, do AC
2) craft to level 50, go straight back to AC, be detrimental to your team

You still can't defend this. It's horseshit that leveling by crafting is encouraged but punished, and you know it.

1. You've crafted. I assume you've crafted... GEAR?!
2. Okay let's say you only took cooking, and a craft that you can't even use gear from. You're still crafting 20 levels without doing anything else, so I assume you have this huge stack of cash. There's vendors around that will sell you gear, and there's the trading post that has DIRT CHEAP items.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

 

[Ghost23]

Would this setup be able to run GW2 at max settings with a decent framerate?

i7-3610
Nvidia gtx 675m 2GB (it's a laptop)
16GB Ram

 

[Hawkian]

totally possible situation

1) spend effort gearing for AC, has badass gear at level 30, do AC
2) craft to level 50, go straight back to AC, be detrimental to your team

You still can't defend this. It's horseshit that leveling by crafting is encouraged but punished, and you know it.

Actually, you putting it like that really solidified in my mind that the way they're doing it is best.

At level 50, wearing level 30 gear, you shouldn't be able to do just as well as you did at 30 but get level 50 gear.

How you got from 30-50 is totally irrelevant to the challenge faced in a dungeon!

Everybody listen to Ashodin he's a Guardian.

 

[Ashodin]

totally possible situation

1) spend effort gearing for AC, has badass gear at level 30, do AC
2) craft to level 50, go straight back to AC, be detrimental to your team

You still can't defend this. It's horseshit that leveling by crafting is encouraged but punished, and you know it.

You're acting as if there's a shortage of gear somewhere, especially with karma readily available, and low level gear is probably a couple silver at most from the trading post.

Are you looking for a reason to argue this point?

 

[shysaursoft]

That's great and all, but do they sell anything besides generic white items that only have base attack/armor? Because there's a huge difference between a level 30 white item, and a level 30 green with +Power +Precision and a rune/sigil attached.

Obviously, random drop greens or karma greens with runes on them, are going to be better than the "plain" whites the vendors sell. The vendors aren't there to make you uber, they're there to give you the utter minimum required, for cheap. But slap some good sigils/runes on them, and you're good to go until you get a better drop, which is perfectly functional without breaking anything in the balance.

It's horseshit that leveling by crafting is encouraged but punished, and you know it.

You live in an alternate reality.

 

[markot]

Would this setup be able to run GW2 at max settings with a decent framerate?

i7-3610
Nvidia gtx 675m 2GB (it's a laptop)
16GB Ram

probably

 

[kayos90]

Would this setup be able to run GW2 at max settings with a decent framerate?

i7-3610
Nvidia gtx 675m 2GB (it's a laptop)
16GB Ram

That processor is quadcore yes? How many GHz?

 

[Arksy]

The dungeons are easily the weakest parts of the game. Say what you want about the holy trinity, it at least gives defined structure and roles allowing greater design choices for the instance. It also gives people more guidance on what they're supposed to do.

 

[Divvy]

I gotta say. I love the hidden little dungeons you find by wandering around and exploring. Just beat the Provernic Crypt.

 

[kayos90]

The dungeons are easily the weakest parts of the game. Say what you want about the holy trinity, it at least gives defined structure and roles allowing greater design choices for the instance. It also gives people more guidance on what they're supposed to do.

They've done away with the designated roles and opted for doing damage with the class that you want to play with and taking care of yourself. This means that there's a greater focus on the class' gameplay rather than the predesignated role of tank, dps, and healer. The focus is different. Whether that suits your taste is a different matter altogether though.

 

[Ghost23]

That processor is quadcore yes? How many GHz?

It's a 3rd generation i7 if that helps at all. I'm pretty sure the GHz is 2.3-3.3

 

[kayos90]

It's a 3rd generation i7 if that helps at all. I'm pretty sure the GHz is 2.3-3.3

Not bad. I'm not sure if you'll be running 60 but you should run the game fine.

 

[Arksy]

They've done away with the designated roles and opted for doing damage with the class that you want to play with and taking care of yourself. This means that there's a greater focus on the class' gameplay rather than the predesignated role of tank, dps, and healer. The focus is different. Whether that suits your taste is a different matter altogether though.

There are some good systems in place liked the downed state as well as rolling and dodging as well as positional strategy, but there's no reason why you couldn't do that within a trinity system. I do think that the trinity system is better for small scale instanced PVE but not for the world mobs. I just have not had a good experience with the dungeons in this game compared to a game with a trinity system. (For the record done about 4 of them, AC, CM and SE. Done a few explorable mode wings in at least two.)

 

[shysaursoft]

The dungeons are easily the weakest parts of the game. Say what you want about the holy trinity, it at least gives defined structure and roles allowing greater design choices for the instance. It also gives people more guidance on what they're supposed to do.

Pity it also made for decades of horrible, horrible groups, with ranged dps sitting mashing their rotation macro, tanks not keeping aggro, healers getting blamed for everything, and then the entire group wiping because nobody actually knows the encounter, and blaming each other for everything that went wrong, because person X didn't have the exact right gear build according to Y template website....

And let's not forget, not being able to find a healer or tank for hours, because nobody wants to suffer the abuse of the rotation derp-ps.

It's easy to forget all the bad, when you're nostalgic for the good bits you're cherrypicking. (And vice versa, I know).

 

[Hawkian]

I'm pretty sure the GHz is 2.3-3.3

Huge range there :/

 

[Ferny]

What the hell has this thread become?

 

[kayos90]

Huge range there :/

I thought he factored in OC but then I realized... there's no K. lol.

What the hell has this thread become?

Madness. Sorry.

 

[V_Arnold]

They've done away with the designated roles and opted for doing damage with the class that you want to play with and taking care of yourself. This means that there's a greater focus on the class' gameplay rather than the predesignated role of tank, dps, and healer. The focus is different. Whether that suits your taste is a different matter altogether though.

Uhm, yeah, except that the dungeon design has the consistency and the complexity of a 2004 MMO. While WoW has skyrocketed in 5-man quality in the past years, thanks to the defined structure of its so-hated-Holy Trinity. If I were an Anet lead designer, I would scream, freak out, and devote every inch of my free time into understanding what makes dungeons great and replayable with a solid structure, and I would adapt it ASAP.

 

[Arksy]

Uhm, yeah, except that the dungeon design has the consistency and the complexity of a 2004 MMO. While WoW has skyrocketed in 5-man quality in the past years, thanks to the defined structure of its so-hated-Holy Trinity. If I were an Anet lead designer, I would scream, freak out, and devote every inch of my free time into understanding what makes dungeons great and replayable with a solid structure, and I would adapt it ASAP.

I echo this. Having a very defined way of how a player is going to play something allows you to really get the point of a dungeon, to give a 'rails' experience to a player in a much more efficient way.

It is revolutionary in PvP as it seems balanced around that and it makes it one of the most engaging PvP games in terms of MMOs ever made but dungeons is where the lack of holy trinity ultimately falls flat.

 

[Ghost23]

Huge range there :/

That's literally what it says on XoticPC's website for the laptop...

3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3610QM (2.3GHz - 3.3GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP

 

[kayos90]

Uhm, yeah, except that the dungeon design has the consistency and the complexity of a 2004 MMO. While WoW has skyrocketed in 5-man quality in the past years, thanks to the defined structure of its so-hated-Holy Trinity. If I were an Anet lead designer, I would scream, freak out, and devote every inch of my free time into understanding what makes dungeons great and replayable with a solid structure, and I would adapt it ASAP.

Your statement makes no direct retorts about my comments and it reads like an exclusive statement. I'm not sure what your intent in posting this was as a result... Are you trying to say dungeon design in GW2 sucks and as a result, my argument is invalid?

 

[shysaursoft]

Uhm, yeah, except that the dungeon design has the consistency and the complexity of a 2004 MMO. While WoW has skyrocketed in 5-man quality in the past years, thanks to the defined structure of its so-hated-Holy Trinity. If I were an Anet lead designer, I would scream, freak out, and devote every inch of my free time into understanding what makes dungeons great and replayable with a solid structure, and I would adapt it ASAP.

If you turned this game into WoW, or its dungeons into WoW dungeons, I would hate you for the rest of my life. Don't we have ENOUGH WoW and derivatives?

 

[kayos90]

I'm confused....

 

[Ashodin]

The dungeons are easily the weakest parts of the game. Say what you want about the holy trinity, it at least gives defined structure and roles allowing greater design choices for the instance. It also gives people more guidance on what they're supposed to do.

Except the fact that because of everyone's "idea" of how dungeons should be because of the holy trinity, they have no idea how dungeons should work without it. Which is why so many people say the dungeons are hard. The game doesn't work the same way other MMOs work.

You have to think outside the box for a lot of the encounters.

When I was running Twilight Arbor with guildies two days ago I thought it was a pretty hard, but fun dungeon. The encounters are MEANT for you to figure them out like a raid, and not just tank and spank everything easy. The second boss of the zone is proof of this.

When the group starts working together and laying down heals and support abilities, or laying down fields together to smash enemies, the game really feels good. Teamwork really shines through when those moments happen, and I've NEVER felt that way about just five people working together, only in certain raid moments in WoW. So kudos to ArenaNet for doing that.

 

[Ferny]

Uhm, yeah, except that the dungeon design has the consistency and the complexity of a 2004 MMO. While WoW has skyrocketed in 5-man quality in the past years, thanks to the defined structure of its so-hated-Holy Trinity. If I were an Anet lead designer, I would scream, freak out, and devote every inch of my free time into understanding what makes dungeons great and replayable with a solid structure, and I would adapt it ASAP.

No way, no way, no way. Listen I loved WoW but all that dungeons became were little 30-40 minute runs for loot points and gold. It became super easy to just spam a couple buttons with little to no difficulty. I ran AC and while I died many times, it was easily the most fun i've had in a dungeon in a long, long while and I ran it with a PUG! No one left, no one yelled at one another, no blame on anyone else, it was fantastic. I don't even know how many dungeons I got into in WoW and not one word was even said in chat. It was way too easy and I'd rather die a bunch of times in a challenging dungeon, than have it turn into what WoW's dungeon environment has become.

 

[LeCapitan]

I thought he factored in OC but then I realized... there's no K. lol.



Madness. Sorry.

Probably the "turbo".

Spoiler

only half joking

 

[kayos90]

Probably the "turbo".

Spoiler

only half joking

Oh.... Well shit. Didn't know that.

 

[Ashodin]

No way, no way, no way. Listen I loved WoW but all that dungeons became were little 30-40 minute runs for loot points and gold. It became super easy to just spam a couple buttons with little to no difficulty. I ran AC and while I died many times, it was easily the most fun i've had in a dungeon in a long, long while and I ran it with a PUG! No one left, no one yelled at one another, no blame on anyone else, it was fantastic. I don't even know how many dungeons I got into in WoW and one word was even said in chat. It was way too easy and I'd rather die a bunch of times in a challenging dungeon, than have it turn into what WoW's dungeon environment has become.

Exactly! This isn't WoW, you have to think outside of WoW mentality. The way they did dungeons isn't the ONLY way.

And one other thing - all the dungeons I did was regardless of what build I was using. All I had to do was flip a utility on here or there (hence utility) and it made encounters easier.

I even flipped to Greatsword / Staff for the heals and long-range if I needed to hang back. You have to change up your solo style to a group style when you're grouping. It's just that simple.

 

[Koeta]

Having an issue with a boss fight, he has gone invulnerable for about 10 minutes now and just wont die, nothing I can figure out to do to make him die... boss name is:

Spoiler

Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan

 

[Hawkian]

Gotta say, I've only done AC in Story Mode twice (and did very well and loved it, once with an almost-pug) and one of the explorable paths (and got our asses beat and loved it). It's exactly the kind and level of challenge I like and I hope for more.

 

[Kingbrave]

No way, no way, no way. Listen I loved WoW but all that dungeons became were little 30-40 minute runs for loot points and gold. It became super easy to just spam a couple buttons with little to no difficulty. I ran AC and while I died many times, it was easily the most fun i've had in a dungeon in a long, long while and I ran it with a PUG! No one left, no one yelled at one another, no blame on anyone else, it was fantastic. I don't even know how many dungeons I got into in WoW and not one word was even said in chat. It was way too easy and I'd rather die a bunch of times in a challenging dungeon, than have it turn into what WoW's dungeon environment has become.

This is how I feel. I may of died a ton and spent 30 silver on repairs but I loved every minute of AC. I've only ran it once and it was worth it.

 

[kayos90]

Having an issue with a boss fight, he has gone invulnerable for about 10 minutes now and just wont die, nothing I can figure out to do to make him die... boss name is:

Spoiler

Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan

I haven't fought that boss, I don't think, and it sounds like a glitch to me. That or maybe something else. Sucks to hear that though.

 

[CornBurrito]

Oh goddamnit... so GW2 isn't recognizing some of the buttons on my Logitech mouse. I'm not sure how to fix this one.

 

[Vodh]

The way downgrading is designed, it lets you enjoy the challenge of all the parts of content on any level and still get relevant drops. It also makes upgrading your gear relevant and important regardless of your level - and makes it possible with the scaling drops.

I can see how it can be irritating to be less effective in a technically superior gear, but if that wasn't the case then either you'd be op (if they toned down the gear scaling linearly) which removes the challenge, or it would make all those sweet drops you get absolutely pointless for anything except your current-level zone, which would ultimately make the gear progression in lower level content completely irrelevant.

Let's say you're rocking a lvl 40 exotic weapon in a lvl 30 zone on your lvl 60 character and you feel a little bit underpowered. Then you find a level 60 fine weapon. All the stats on the weapon are better than on your old weapon since the level difference is big enough to make up for the quality difference. You eqip it and you're happy you found an upgrade. If the lvl 40 exotic was downgraded to lvl 30 and the new lvl 60 blue was also downgraded to 30, firstly it would create an even more counter-intuitive case of a superior weapon being actually worse than the logically inferior weapon, but more importantly it would make the new drop feel much less rewarding.

If you wanted to maximise effectivenes, you'd have to manage multiple sets of equipment for multiple levels - keep some oranges for lvl 35, maybe have a set of lvl 40 yellows but still those lvl 35 oranges would be better than lvl 40 yellows in a zone that downgrades you to 35... Basically, until you would have completed a full endgame set of lvl 80 items you'd have to keep low lvl shit and manage all that to maximise effectiveness. And that would be a clusterfuck.

TL;DR: There's no simple solution to the issue and there's always a price. The fact that you get weaker in low lvl zones if you don't keep your equipment up to date is the cheapest and ultimately the most intuitive price of all the possible prices for the ability to ejoy all the content in an MMO on a max level toon.

Unless someone has a fucking brilliant solution that would deal with all the issues - but so far no one seem to have it in this thread.

 

[Hawkian]

This is how I feel. I may of died a ton and spent 30 silver on repairs but I loved every minute of AC. I've only ran it once and it was worth it.

Now that you know you can beat it it'll be much easier and you actually make pretty mad bank doing it when you don't have to repair that often. I'll run it later with you if you want.

Unless someone has a fucking brilliant solution that would deal with all the issues - but so far no one seem to have it in this thread.

I have no qualms describing the solution implemented in-game as brilliant. If I have to spend some silver to get my gear up to par before heading into a dungeon it's a pretty trivial, literal price to pay considering what you get for completing one.

 

[LeCapitan]

Oh goddamnit... so GW2 isn't recognizing some of the buttons on my Logitech mouse. I'm not sure how to fix this one.

If it is a g700 D) then I have the same problem. I think the only option is to use set point to make your mouse keys correspond to keyboard keys and then bind those in GW2.

 

[Ashodin]

For those asking if Level 80 gear drops in lower level zones. Yes it does. Gear always drops according to your level, not the level of the zone. Even doing Caduceus Mansion was giving me good drops. It's just how it works.

 

[Kingbrave]

Now that you know you can beat it it'll be much easier and you actually make pretty mad bank doing it when you don't have to repair that often. I'll run it later with you if you want.

That'd be cool. No worries though. I had a seizure this morning so I've not been on.

 

[Proven]

I feel like the main argument is a lack of structure. While the bosses have been called simple, and I haven't done enough of the dungeons to refute this point, they're that way for now because the usual structure is gone and they're depending on the emergent grouping gameplay to buoy things while they figure out what changes need to be made. Figure out how to succeed at these dungeons, how deal with them without being able to straight "tank 'n' spank" all the time, figure out what parts are and aren't fun. Then they'll be able to figure out how to take them to the next level.

I will say that people who switch up utilities and traits to become more group oriented for a dungeon or PvE event are the best people in the world and I always watch their backs. I seem to be the only person who does group condition removal outside of accidental light fields from guardians and necromancers.

For those asking if Level 80 gear drops in lower level zones. Yes it does. Gear always drops according to your level, not the level of the zone. Even doing Caduceus Mansion was giving me good drops. It's just how it works.

In my experience, it's a combination. I go back to Queensdale, and I get both level 1-10 gear, and level 80 gear. This means if I'm alone, I get extra stuff I can salvage for the tier 1 crafting materials without having to deal with farming resource nodes all the time, and if I'm playing with a lower level friend, half of my drops will be something they can possibly use. And I still get level 80 drops mixed in. So, it's the best of both worlds, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[CornBurrito]

If it is a g700 D) then I have the same problem. I think the only option is to use set point to make your mouse keys correspond to keyboard keys and then bind those in GW2.

Mine is a G700. Sorta glad (in a way) that someone else has this problem. I guess I'll just keybind some of the non working buttons.

 

[Hawkian]

That'd be cool. No worries though. I had a seizure this morning so I've not been on.

...holy shit you almost got me