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[Kingbrave]

...holy shit you almost got me

??
I really do have epilepsy...

 

[Ferrio]

If it is a g700 D) then I have the same problem. I think the only option is to use set point to make your mouse keys correspond to keyboard keys and then bind those in GW2.

That's what you have to do. Keybind it to weird shit you'd never use.

 

[Deitus]

The way downgrading is designed, it lets you enjoy the challenge of all the parts of content on any level and still get relevant drops. It also makes upgrading your gear relevant and important regardless of your level - and makes it possible with the scaling drops.

I can see how it can be irritating to be less effective in a technically superior gear, but if that wasn't the case then either you'd be op (if they toned down the gear scaling linearly) which removes the challenge, or it would make all those sweet drops you get absolutely pointless for anything except your current-level zone, which would ultimately make the gear progression in lower level content completely irrelevant.

Let's say you're rocking a lvl 40 exotic weapon in a lvl 30 zone on your lvl 60 character and you feel a little bit underpowered. Then you find a level 60 fine weapon. All the stats on the weapon are better than on your old weapon since the level difference is big enough to make up for the quality difference. You eqip it and you're happy you found an upgrade. If the lvl 40 exotic was downgraded to lvl 30 and the new lvl 60 blue was also downgraded to 30, firstly it would create an even more counter-intuitive case of a superior weapon being actually worse than the logically inferior weapon, but more importantly it would make the new drop feel much less rewarding.

If you wanted to maximise effectivenes, you'd have to manage multiple sets of equipment for multiple levels - keep some oranges for lvl 35, maybe have a set of lvl 40 yellows but still those lvl 35 oranges would be better than lvl 40 yellows in a zone that downgrades you to 35... Basically, until you would have completed a full endgame set of lvl 80 items you'd have to keep low lvl shit and manage all that to maximise effectiveness. And that would be a clusterfuck.

TL;DR: There's no simple solution to the issue and there's always a price. The fact that you get weaker in low lvl zones if you don't keep your equipment up to date is the cheapest and ultimately the most intuitive price of all the possible prices for the ability to ejoy all the content in an MMO on a max level toon.

Unless someone has a fucking brilliant solution that would deal with all the issues - but so far no one seem to have it in this thread.

Thank you for this. When you put it this way I defintely see why the system really has to be the way it is... even if there are times when that doesn't suit the way I'm playing. I think the previous few pages of arguments got way too heated, and people were just being way to quick to be dismissive.

It seems a little counter-intuitive at times that a game where everything you do gives you experience, and one where you are actively encouraged to level in low level areas would then turn around and say "If you aren't leveling in level appropriate areas, expect to have to go out of your way to make up the difference in your gear." But I get why it has to be that way, and I agree that the alternative could have some really negative consequences.

 

[XeroSauce]

??
I really do have epilepsy...

Hope everything is alright. What level are you at?

 

[CornBurrito]

That's what you have to do. Keybind it to weird shit you'd never use.

alright. Time to keybind it all to random shit.

 

[etiolate]

The combat is no more complex or demanding than any other MMO. Just like you claim you learn the dance steps, so will players learn the dance steps of the encounters in GW2 fights.

Hrm. Not exactly. The combat is certainly more demanding and active. Whether the encounters will be more complex or not is left to be decided. I do believe the community will ultimately figure out strategies that make the dungeons easier, but if that's so then it shows that the PVE isn't mindless.

 

[Winterblink]

Did they do some sort of rollback today? My gf's character had some unexplored points on her map that she knew she'd done earlier, and when she logged in was basically in a place she was an hour before logging off. Really strange, and she remembers being in an area with someone else attacking NPCs and stuff so it wasn't just some disconnect.

 

[kayos90]

Thank you for this. When you put it this way I defintely see why the system really has to be the way it is... even if there are times when that doesn't suit the way I'm playing. I think the previous few pages of arguments got way too heated, and people were just being way to quick to be dismissive.

It seems a little counter-intuitive at times that a game where everything you do gives you experience, and one where you are actively encouraged to level in low level areas would then turn around and say "If you aren't leveling in level appropriate areas, expect to have to go out of your way to make up the difference in your gear." But I get why it has to be that way, and I agree that the alternative could have some really negative consequences.

The idea of ranged level zones aren't really the same as in MMOs as in this game. They're essentially saying that once you're 80, any level-zone will act like a lvl 80 zone. The only reason those numbers exist is because they want to prevent people from wandering in a higher level zone and getting roflstomped. At least, this is how I perceive it to be.

 

[V_Arnold]

Except the fact that because of everyone's "idea" of how dungeons should be because of the holy trinity, they have no idea how dungeons should work without it. Which is why so many people say the dungeons are hard. The game doesn't work the same way other MMOs work.

You have to think outside the box for a lot of the encounters.

Holy Trinity works because there is a coherent aggro system in the game. In Guild Wars 2, it does not seem like it is coherent, or that it is in place at all. So... it turns into the PVP mimic encounter that EVERYONE hated in WoW, in TOC. You all know which one I am talking about.

 

[Ferrio]

Hrm. Not exactly. The combat is certainly more demanding and active. Whether the encounters will be more complex or not is left to be decided. I do believe the community will ultimately figure out strategies that make the dungeons easier, but if that's so then it shows that the PVE isn't mindless.

I think proper use of combo fields might help a lot in boss fights. As well as people picking traits/utilities that compliment the team.

 

[Kingbrave]

Hope everything is alright. What level are you at?

I'll be fine, but thanks.

I think I'm 37 or 38...

 

[Weltall Zero]

Sorry for being late to the scaling argument, but I wanted to throw my two cents. The very first time I heard about scaling in GW2 and how it would work, I entirely assumed that if you had crappy gear for a level 80, you'd be downscaled to a crappy geared level 30. In fact, it's the exact same thing WoW does with everything that has a "rating" attached, like critical and dodge. As you go up in level, the same amount of rating yields less critical and dodge percentage, so in that sense you are becoming "weaker". It doesn't have to make literal sense, simply understand the mechanic is there to force you to keep your gear updated, and move on. An RPG, much less an MMO, can't function without this mechanic.

Also, unrelatedly, once guesting is implemented and I reach a decent level, I expect to go dungeoneering with you like crazy, Hawkian.

 

[Koeta]

Video of my issue with the boss who doesn't want to die (could be spoiler to some)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtV7mDxfCEM&feature=youtu.be

I'm thinking of waiting out the hour his Determined buff lasts, and seeing if I can kill it lol.... sadly

 

[kayos90]

Holy Trinity works because there is a coherent aggro system in the game. In Guild Wars 2, it does not seem like it is coherent, or that it is in place at all. So... it turns into the PVP mimic encounter that EVERYONE hated in WoW, in TOC. You all know which one I am talking about.

We're not saying the Holy Trinity doesn't work. We're saying that this game doesn't want to do that. Just because it doesn't adhere to the trinity doesn't mean it's bad.

 

[V_Arnold]

We're not saying the Holy Trinity doesn't work. We're saying that this game doesn't want to do that. Just because it doesn't adhere to the trinity doesn't mean it's bad.

You do not need holy trinity to have coherency, but you definitely need an aggro system.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Video of my issue with the boss who doesn't want to die (could be spoiler to some)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtV7mDxfCEM&feature=youtu.be

I'm thinking of waiting out the hour his Determined buff lasts, and seeing if I can kill it lol.... sadly

He was only invulnerable for a short while for me at that particular location. He also transported to 3 other parts in the room Took a while but eventually he went down.

 

[kayos90]

You do not need holy trinity to have coherency, but you definitely need an aggro system.

Why do you need an aggro system?

 

[Koeta]

He was only invulnerable for a short while for me at that particular location. He also transported to 3 other parts in the room Took a while but eventually he went down.

Yeah this is my second time fighting him, and the first time he ported to the left side and was shooting rockets at me lol, now he is at the bottom and nothing I do changes the fact he is there, shooting that npc over and over and over.

 

[Arksy]

It's not bad. In my mind, this is how it breaks down.

Cons of not having a holy trinity:
- Difficult to direct user experiences in tightly controlled encounter based environments (instances) and thus limits the design choices you can implement into your dungeon.

Pros:

Everything else! It really shines in outdoor PvE and incredibly so in PvP! It makes the game one of the most incredible PvP games outside a moba.

 

[Littlegator]

Actually, you putting it like that really solidified in my mind that the way they're doing it is best.

At level 50, wearing level 30 gear, you shouldn't be able to do just as well as you did at 30 but get level 50 gear.

How you got from 30-50 is totally irrelevant to the challenge faced in a dungeon!

Everybody listen to Ashodin he's a Guardian.

I'm not actually understanding your words here.

Are you saying a level 30 with 30 gear should be worse after he gains 20 levels by crafting? What if he gains a couple levels by exploring cities? What if he runs through zones to harvest nodes? They're legitimate options for playing that don't involve combat or loot drops.

Anet built a game that provides multiple options for how to play and how to level up. A very limited scope of those options involves getting loot. Thus, scaling your current gear relative to your current level is not logical.

But it's OK, I was gone for a meeting and enough people said I'm wrong without giving reasons, so I've lost the argument now.

 

[ArtistDude88]

Now that the Trading Post is finally here, I find myself absolutely disappointed.

Not with the TP itself, but with the retards posting items on it. I can't make money selling ANYTHING because people are posting prices 1 copper above vendor price. Which is also stupid because it costed them a few copper to even post it on there in the first place.

So I might as well just vendor every piece of gear I get :\

 

[fluffydelusions]

Yeah this is my second time fighting him, and the first time he ported to the left side and was shooting rockets at me lol, now he is at the bottom and nothing I do changes the fact he is there, shooting that npc over and over and over.

Could be the weapon you are using maybe but I'm not sure. I remember I tried attacking him with melee and it wouldn't work. OR it could be just the quest bugged out lol. I think I used a rifle though pretty much.

 

[V_Arnold]

Why do you need an aggro system?

Considering it is 2:20 am here, I would fall asleep before I would finish writing my post about why we need a coherent aggro system in an MMO which involves fights between x number of players and y number of mobs. But if I have time for it tomorrow (and others do not explain it instead of me until then), I will get back to you

 

[Ferny]

Now that the Trading Post is finally here, I find myself absolutely disappointed.

Not with the TP itself, but with the retards posting items on it. I can't make money selling ANYTHING because people are posting prices 1 copper above vendor price. Which is also stupid because it costed them a few copper to even post it on there in the first place.

So I might as well just vendor every piece of gear I get :\

It will even itself out over time. The fact that it wasn't up for a week or so has a lot to do with it but once supply gets up there, the prices will drop on most items.

 

[Belfast]

Hmmm... let's see? Do I want a game that is consistently challenging (if sometimes frustrating) in its dungeon design or one where I can faceroll every dungeon until I get to the loot pinata at the end, rinse/repeat?

 

[kayos90]

I'm not actually understanding your words here.

Are you saying a level 30 with 30 gear should be worse after he gains 20 levels by crafting? What if he gains 5 levels by exploring cities? What if he runs through zones to harvest nodes? They're legitimate options for playing that don't involve combat or loot drops.

But it's OK, I was gone for a meeting and enough people said I'm wrong without giving reasons, so I've lost the argument now.

This tells me that either you didn't read their posts or you fail to understand explanations. Again.

 

[Arksy]

Hmmm... let's see? Do I want a game that is consistently challenging (if sometimes frustrating) in its dungeon design or one where I can faceroll every dungeon until I get to the loot pinata at the end, rinse/repeat?

None of the dungeons I've encountered so far in GW2 have been frustrating or overly difficult. Even in the explorable modes. That may be because of my guild or it may be due to design. Hard to tell on my end. (Arah, SE, AC and CM) still scratching the surface though...

 

[Deitus]

The idea of ranged level zones aren't really the same as in MMOs as in this game. They're essentially saying that once you're 80, any level-zone will act like a lvl 80 zone. The only reason those numbers exist is because they want to prevent people from wandering in a higher level zone and getting roflstomped. At least, this is how I perceive it to be.

In my mind, I don't think of being a level 80 in a level 80 zone, I just think I'm a character in a zone. My own level has in most instances been completely ignorable thus far. I will notice I'm getting level ups, and then go spend my trait/skill points appropriately, but other than I haven't really been focused on "Gotta hurry to X level to do Y" or "I can't play here because I'm too high level". And it's been great.

But I'm also level 42 wearing level 20ish gear, and apparently that's bad. Apparently I would have been better served avoiding all of those things I did that gave me a bunch of experience. If I had avoided all of this stuff, I would probably still be wearing all of the same gear I'm wearing now, it would just be drastically stronger. I dunno, it just feels like the opposite of how I've been playing up until now. Instead of constantly fretting over what level I am, I have to constantly fret over what level gear I have equipped. I see why it's that way, but its a little frustrating, and it does somewhat take away from the experience.

You do not need holy trinity to have coherency, but you definitely need an aggro system.

There is an aggro system. It's just not simplified in the form of "how big is your aggro bar".

 

[ArtistDude88]

It will even itself out over time. The fact that it wasn't up for a week or so has a lot to do with it but once supply gets up there, the prices will drop on most items.

I don't want prices to drop, I want them to raise!

 

[V_Arnold]

There is an aggro system. It's just not simplified in the form of "how big is your aggro bar".

Then friends and groups will naturally evolve into versions of holy trinity for endgame, simple as that. Because that will remain to be the most effective way to handle it. Assuming that the threat valuse of skills and classes are consistent and can be memorized without addons/tooltip changes.

 

[Deitus]

I don't want prices to drop, I want them to raise!

I think crafting materials will probably raise in price in the next few days. Keep in mind, people have been stockpiling items to sell on the trading post, while people who wanted to level crafting just went out and farmed it in the absence of a way to buy it. As a result, supply is much higher than demand for the time being. However, with the majority of players now moving past the starting zones, the supply of low level crafting materials should steadily increase, while the demand probably won't decrease as many players have probably not started crafting yet. That's my theory anyway.

There are some items that just aren't going to be marketable though. For sure, cloth and leather will always be more valuable than ore and wood, because of how easy it is to gather materials with gathering tools.

 

[etiolate]

I think proper use of combo fields might help a lot in boss fights. As well as people picking traits/utilities that compliment the team.

Yes, from what I've seen combo fields make a big difference. I always adjust traits, weapons and utilities when I go into a dungeon.

When I first went into Ascalon Catacombs as a Mesmer, I was running Greatsword and Staff, with Decoy, Radiation Field, and Signet of Inspiration. The Signet was to supposedly use its activate function and share my boons.

Going through the dungeon, I realized I wasn't getting enough boons to help out the group. Then there were the Ranger mobs that presented their own issue. I then changed my setup to Staff and Scepter/Focus, with Mirrored Feedback replacing Signet of Inspirations. This allowed my Feedback bubble and my iWarden to nullify the Rangers, and my temporal curtain to pull mobs away from each other.

Versus the final boss, I dropped the Focus for Pistol as it was an easier interrupt and the iDuelist projtectile finishers worked better with Guardian and my own Chaos combo fields. Feedback wasn't as useful in this situation, so I changed it to Blink to get out of foefire instantly.

Stacking light fields and smoke fields to create condition removals, heals and blinds is very effective. My chaos fields apply confusion for extra damage, but can easily buff my melee allies with Chaos Armor which can grant multiple life saving boons.

 

[leng jai]

Is it just me or is the weapon swapping unresponsive half the time?

 

[etiolate]

Then friends and groups will naturally evolve into versions of holy trinity for endgame, simple as that. Because that will remain to be the most effective way to handle it. Assuming that the threat valuse of skills and classes are consistent and can be memorized without addons/tooltip changes.

No, mobs have different aggro rules. Some mobs will stop at the nearest target doing the most damage to them while other mobs follow rules that makes them go after the target farthest from them. Another mob might target anyone with the most conditions on them. It's not a straight "threat" level.

 

[Proven]

Yes, from what I've seen combo fields make a big difference. I always adjust traits, weapons and utilities when I go into a dungeon.

When I first went into Ascalon Catacombs as a Mesmer, I was running Greatsword and Staff, with Decoy, Radiation Field, and Signet of Inspiration. The Signet was to supposedly use its activate function and share my boons.

Going through the dungeon, I realized I wasn't getting enough boons to help out the group. Then there were the Ranger mobs that presented their own issue. I then changed my setup to Staff and Scepter/Focus, with Mirrored Feedback replacing Signet of Inspirations. This allowed my Feedback bubble and my iWarden to nullify the Rangers, and my temporal curtain to pull mobs away from each other.

Versus the final boss, I dropped the Focus for Pistol as it was an easier interrupt and the iDuelist projtectile finishers worked better with Guardian and my own Chaos combo fields. Feedback wasn't as useful in this situation, so I changed it to Blink to get out of foefire instantly.

Stacking light fields and smoke fields to create condition removals, heals and blinds is very effective. My chaos fields apply confusion for extra damage, but can easily buff my melee allies with Chaos Armor which can grant multiple life saving boons.

Bam. This. So much.

 

[Deitus]

Then friends and groups will naturally evolve into versions of holy trinity for endgame, simple as that. Because that will remain to be the most effective way to handle it.

Yes, they will evolve into versions of the holy trinity, in which all players play all three roles in the trinity to varying degrees.

Assuming that the threat valuse of skills and classes are consistent and can be memorized without addons/tooltip changes.

Well that's the problem isn't it. The way that the aggro system is implemented, there isn't a simple "this skill increases aggro by 40 points." That's why I said the aggro system isn't just simplified into bars. Enemies will determine who to attack based on a number of factors, including who is doing the most damage, who is closer, and who is the easiest to kill. I just don't see that the system will become predictable enough to be reduced to rote memorization or bar watching, and that's by design.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Just hit 400 in jewel craft and the entire system really annoys me. My PvE build would benefit from healing/condition/toughness items but for whatever reason that combination doesn't exist when there's no reason it shouldn't (it actually is available in PvP). The system would be much better if each gem represented 1 specific stat and you could mix/match 3 in the high level gear, rather than limiting us to 6 gems with 3 attributes most of which include power.

 

[Jobacca]

Is the patch download supposed to take 5 years? Been downloading since 2pm CDT and Im at 30% :/

 

[Deitus]

Is the patch download supposed to take 5 years? Been downloading since 2pm CDT and Im at 30% :/

That sounds like you are redownloading the whole client. How large of a file have you downloaded so far? And how many total files are there to download?

Have you recently moved the .exe? Because this would cause it to redownload. If you want to move the file to a new directory, you need to make sure to move the .dat file as well.

 

[Varna]

So basically it looks like GW2 is going to keep running fairly bad (compared to AMD) on high end Nvidia (kepler) hardware.

I got this response over at Guru3D from a Nvidia rep

As we acknowledge on the site (http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/art...vers-released/), negative SLI scaling may occur on Kepler cards because GW2 is heavily CPU-bound. Our driver team will continue to work with ArenaNet to develop performance improvements, but our options at present are limited because of that CPU limitation.

Based on my own tests, regardless of which GPU you own, the best advice I can give is to OC your CPU and watch as the FPS increases dramatically. If you're running 2 or more Keplers I would do the OC, then test your frame rate to see if SLI is beneficial.

I have my i5-2500k running at 4.7GHZ.

 

[Ferrio]

So basically it looks like GW2 is going to keep running fairly bad (compared to AMD) on high end Nvidia (kepler) hardware.

I got this response over at Guru3D from a Nvidia rep



I have my i5-2500k running at 4.7GHZ.

Guess one of the few times I can actually be glad I have AMD. That said... I still get 20-30fps in WvW

 

[Jobacca]

I just bought it. Thought the CD took care of it. Downloading 6,119mb, 250kbs, 153,800 files remaining.

That sounds like you are redownloading the whole client. How large of a file have you downloaded so far? And how many total files are there to download?

Have you recently moved the .exe? Because this would cause it to redownload. If you want to move the file to a new directory, you need to make sure to move the .dat file as well.

 

[Out of Working Order]

Well, for some reason I just couldn't get into Warcraft, but am really enjoying this.

I think it's the events that you can get involved in at the spur of a moment. And the art. I love the look of the Black Citadel and the surrounding areas (I haven't ventured far yet, so I hope the rest is just as good).

 

[Deitus]

I just bought it. Thought the CD took care of it. Downloading 6,119mb, 250kbs, 153,800 files remaining.

Oh yeah, that explains it then. I bought it digital, so I'm not sure exactly how they implemented the physical version. But that does seem like you are downloading the full client. Perhaps someone who bought the physical version can confirm whether or not its supposed to work that way.

It sucks to have to download all of that, when a simple install from a DVD would have gotten that done in a fraction of the time (though there would still be no small amount of patches to download). But if you are sure the game data didn't install in another location, I guess just let it keep going, because at least you can know for sure that it will work.

 

[Arksy]

I really hope ArenaNet can get the game under control sooner rather then later. I want to see some of the awesome stuff they have planned for us. The base game and the potential it holds is just immense. At the moment I'm just playing the TP when it's up, in between crafting dyes and farming Cursed Shore. It's great stuff.

EDIT: And of course, WvW, whenever I can get in.

 

[Kingbrave]

Well, for some reason I just couldn't get into Warcraft, but am really enjoying this.

I think it's the events that you can get involved in at the spur of a moment. And the art. I love the look of the Black Citadel and the surrounding areas (I haven't ventured far yet, so I hope the rest is just as good).

That is one of the things I like. I like to just goof around and go look at the whole zone and uncover the blurry part of the map, and I love it when the npc's run up to you and get a de started.

 

[Jobacca]

Oh yeah, that explains it then. I bought it digital, so I'm not sure exactly how they implemented the physical version. But that does seem like you are downloading the full client. Perhaps someone who bought the physical version can confirm whether or not its supposed to work that way.

It sucks to have to download all of that, when a simple install from a DVD would have gotten that done in a fraction of the time (though there would still be no small amount of patches to download). But if you are sure the game data didn't install in another location, I guess just let it keep going, because at least you can know for sure that it will work.

What the heck is the 2nd disc for in the physical copy?

 

[BattleMonkey]

It's not bad. In my mind, this is how it breaks down.

Cons of not having a holy trinity:
- Difficult to direct user experiences in tightly controlled encounter based environments (instances) and thus limits the design choices you can implement into your dungeon.

Pros:

Everything else! It really shines in outdoor PvE and incredibly so in PvP! It makes the game one of the most incredible PvP games outside a moba.

WvWvW is fun, but the Spvp is no fun because of the lack of trinity frankly. The whole team play aspect feels tossed out the door and it makes it extremely unfriendly for PUG play, it's basically focused on hardcore team play who can actually coordinate. Good for them, but it locks out the fun for a huge portion of the population who are not interested in team esports competitive stuff

No, mobs have different aggro rules. Some mobs will stop at the nearest target doing the most damage to them while other mobs follow rules that makes them go after the target farthest from them. Another mob might target anyone with the most conditions on them. It's not a straight "threat" level.

Even other MMOs with aggro mechanics built in, do similar stuff with alternate aggro encounters for players to adapt too. Difference here is that the entire game has no real aggro rule set and it's random luck at figuring it outside of the big boss encounters that people repeat and learn.

 

[Complistic]

So I found a guard in ebonhawke that is guarding the door to the crystal desert. Me thinks that'll be the entrance to the update/expansion.

 

[Arksy]

WvWvW is fun, but the Spvp is no fun because of the lack of trinity frankly. The whole team play aspect feels tossed out the door and it makes it extremely unfriendly for PUG play, it's basically focused on hardcore team play who can actually coordinate. Good for them, but it locks out the fun for a huge portion of the population who are not interested in team esports competitive stuff

It is pug unfriendly I'll give you that but sPVP was designed to be hardcore. Maybe they should put a pug only version in or something.