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Guild Wars 2 |OT| Buy Once, Sub Never, Fun Forever
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shigsy
Member
You know what that's called? NOT SCALING. When you have shit like that, that defeats the point of scaling. If you're not going to have your gear scaled, why scale you at all? Scale everything, or not scale anything at all.
Scaling is for the purpose of equating proportionality in lower levels. If you have gear 10 levels under than what the zone says and you got a lower zone. You should have that same proportion/disadvantage applied to you. What you're describing is not scaling at all.
Lupin3
Targeting terrorists with a D-Pad
Thanks, will look for it next time I log in.
Maybe you just forgot to mention it, but that's just a minion of jormag called The Claw of Jormag. The real Jormag is not in the game, but you can see his tooth in Hoelbrak
Maybe you just forgot to mention it, but that's just a minion of jormag called The Claw of Jormag. The real Jormag is not in the game, but you can see his tooth in Hoelbrak
Yea, you are right.
"Oh God," we're reading, you just don't understand that we disagree on the method of scaling going on. I can't even buy level 80 gear with the tokens from this dungeon, WHY is my gear being downscaled disproportionately with the token gear? Go ahead and drop only level 60 gear then and scale my gear down to that if anything, not all the fucking way to 80. I still wouldn't approve of that form of scaling but it'd be less of a mess than the current one in place. The vast majority of people doing these dungeons on EXPLORE MODE are going to be doing it for the tokens so it should be scaled appropriately for the reward.
THIS is the exact problem. It's completely unintuitive along with the rest of the dungeon experience. It's like, oh I'm making progress getting better gear and traits but oh! Wait! If you have godly gear at 35 but only average gear at 45, you're now weaker than you were before! Awesome!
It's not like the dungeons are EASY at 35 with 35 gear. It's still a challenge. Punishing players for progressing through the game and doing older content is ass-backwards, especially when you have people IN THIS VERY THREAD saying not to worry about keeping your gear up-to-date and to save up your karma.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Littlegator
Banned
I'm not sure I follow how I'm the one ignoring 10 levels of progression. Crafting wouldn't give xp if it wasn't a viable method to gain levels. Anet wouldn't say that you can get to level 80 without combat if it wasn't viable. There's no ignoring of progression going on. There's just 10 levels that were achieved by doing something that does not give loot.
Here I'll just quote myself.
Or, specifically, the algorithm:
Gather the item level. If character is dual wielding, use minimum weapon level.
If item level is greater or equal to character level, drop gear at character level (maybe +1 or +2)
Else, drop gear at item level, up to +1 or +2.
in c++, granted it's going to look pretty abysmal writing such simple logic:
Code:
int weaponlvl = /*insert item level*/;
int charlvl = /*insert character level*/;
if (weaponlvl >= charlvl)
{
//roll drops for character level
}
else
{
//roll drops for gear level
}There would be incentive to upgrade your gear... for your level? I mean it's quite obvious that your level 45 gear shouldn't be scaled UP to accommodate you in a level 60 area.
Your point doesn't even apply to my "stupid" crafting scenario. You're not crafting to level 45 and expecting to do level 45 content, you're crafting to level 45 and expecting to do level 35 content, where you were already at. Also, crafting costs money. No, you can't afford better gear after your spending money.
They're not punishing you for going through the game and doing older content. The whole point of scaling is that you can go back and it'll be a challenge across all levels. Hence the point of SCALING. If you don't like it then you have a problem with the concept of scaling. There's nothing wrong with how they implemented it.
Code:
int weaponlvl = /*insert item level*/;
int charlvl = /*insert character level*/;
if (weaponlvl >= charlvl)
{
//roll drops for character level
}
else
{
//roll drops for gear level
}This is bad programming for scaling. So you're saying that I'll be getting lvl 30 drops for doing a lvl 30 dungeon even though I'm lvl 80? That's not scaling. That's like going back and doing old content in WoW.
Whew, thought I just got the shit spoiled out of something hugeMaybe you just forgot to mention it, but that's just a minion of jormag called The Claw of Jormag. The real Jormag is not in the game, but you can see his tooth in Hoelbrak
Awesome. I just joined the Priory but haven't done any missions past the initiation mission (the last mission in the 3-factions storyline). I was a little worried because everyone was saying how you NEED to play the Order of Whispers, and I don't like the look of the Priory specific armor, but the Priory made more sense for my character. It sounds like this is exactly the right faction to pick for me.
Littlegator
Banned
No, it's not bad programming. If you're level 80 with level 60 gear, you'll get gear for level 60 (or 61 or 62), no matter what content you're doing. I mean what do you expect, level 80 gear?
EDIT: Oh, and here's another improvement. Add to the algorithm a consideration for area level, and don't drop any gear below the area level.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
The hardest battle in this game is fighting the Trading Post Maintenance
How is it not punishing if you are WEAKER at 45 than you were at 35? Not even same strength, flat out weaker. That's not appropriate scaling, that's just stupid. 35 dungeon content at 35 is already challenging. Scaling you down to 35 if you have higher ilvl compared to the dungeon does not make content faceroll or not challenging. Wtf.
I agree with the scaling-'haters'. It's stupid and counter-intuitive.
It should just downgrade your stats to the level you were before, as in the level required in that particular dungeon and area. Your level 50 stats are now level 35 stats. Your level 42 sword now has the stats of a level 35 sword, same with your level 28 pants and level 48 amulet. In fact downgrading is a better mechanic then pure scaling because it makes more sense.
A more muscular warrior at level 45 should not be weaker with a level 35 stick then a less muscular warrior at level 35 with the same stick.
I mean, a (now more experienced) craftsman asked to make one of his earlier works for a client using the same tools he used back then suddenly doesn't become less gifted at the task just because he is using an older brush.
Terrible analogies, but whatever. It's a stupid mechanic and it should be fixed.
It should just downgrade your stats to the level you were before, as in the level required in that particular dungeon and area. Your level 50 stats are now level 35 stats. Your level 42 sword now has the stats of a level 35 sword, same with your level 28 pants and level 48 amulet. In fact downgrading is a better mechanic then pure scaling because it makes more sense.
A more muscular warrior at level 45 should not be weaker with a level 35 stick then a less muscular warrior at level 35 with the same stick.
I mean, a (now more experienced) craftsman asked to make one of his earlier works for a client using the same tools he used back then suddenly doesn't become less gifted at the task just because he is using an older brush.
Terrible analogies, but whatever. It's a stupid mechanic and it should be fixed.
Littlegator
Banned
EXACTLY. Making your level 80 with an ilvl72 greatsword into a level 30 with an ilvl 30 greatsword doesn't make the content easier. It makes it just as challenging as an appropriately geared level 30.
It's not punishing because you ARE SCALED.
HOLY FREAKING SHIT. ARE PEOPLE NOT READING AND UNDERSTANDING?
YOU ARE BEING SCALED. Do you guys know what scaled means?! If you are not having your stats, items, and levels brought down across all things then YOU. ARE. NOT. BEING. SCALED. What's the point of calling it scaling if you're not going to be scaled. Stop trying to assert that your view is right and call it scaling. IT'S NOT SCALING.
Fuck it. I give up. You guys don't understand the definition of scaling. This is stupid.
Your entire point is hinged on the meaning of the word 'scale' and that we do not grasp it.
Do you not understand gameplay? Do you not grasp that not everything has to be taken at absolute literal value in a videogame. Do you not see how this is a weird, strange and counter-intuitive mechanic? Let the meaning of the word scale go and take a step back, it'll come to you.
That's my point. You guys don't understand scaling so this argument has gone literally nowhere.
I've discussed exactly why it's done. The game punishes you for being under geared across the board, no matter what level you're scaled down to. This promotes maintaining your equipment to appropriate levels and allows for a natural gear progression. t's not counter-intuitive, it's exactly dead simple. If you're undergeared you get punished no matter the circumstance, that's about as simple as it gets.
dorkimoe
Member
I could use some help with crafting. Most of my stuff is grey so I'm no longer getting xp, and the discovery thing is just confusing to me. Is there a site that shows what parts I need to put into discovery to discover something? I put in 2 pieces then I have nothing else to put in, It would help to know what 3-4 pieces i need
Then explain to me why I need to be punished if I decide to do early game content. If I'm helping my buddy quest in his starter zone or help him slog through AC, why do I need to be punished more then people at the 'proper' level and item level range? Aren't I doing something worthwhile already?
http://www.gw2db.com/ helped me tons. Find your crafting profession, check your level, buy everything you need to discover stuff you haven't found out yet.
Okay. I'm going to try one last time. If you're using lvl 45 gear in a lvl 60 zone, should you be punished/bet put at a disadvantage?
You're not being punished for doing early gear content. You're being punished for not maintaining your gear. You'd get the exact same thing if you were lvl 60 in a lvl 60 zone with lvl 50 gear. If you're ignoring gearing up properly, then you should get docked for it. Just because you're doing earlier content doesn't mean you should suddenly be exempt for that rule, especially when the drops you obtain would be your level.
You're having a very hard time grasping this since it's very different than any other MMO. You are scaled to that dungeon level, and that means everything... your good and bad.
You should have more skills available, and be better traited than your noobie buddy, so you are not being disproportionately punished, just scaled
I am level 80 and even though I'm scaled down to a level 51 area I am in right now I have an easier time than people just leveling up. Shorter cooldowns, more passive abilities, etc. Of course, I try to keep my gear appropriate to my level as well. If I had all level 60 gear still is the same as trying to progress through a level 15 area naked. That makes sense because it means I'm just not paying attention to my gear.
Good lord cooking is amazing fun.
But help. I'm drowning in peach pies.
Eat them. Eat them all. Drown in that sweet, sweet pie!!
lol I know the feeling I have way too much food after getting my cooking to 400. I'll be transfering over to the GAF server tonight and joining GAF-overflow. Level 80 Necromancer named Windylisk. Will bug someone for an invite later.
Littlegator
Banned
And once again, your fallacy is in the idea that "under-geared" exists. The game is far too complex of a beast to shoehorn every character into a role where having level-matching gear is necessary.
Anet's vision with this game is that you can do whatever the hell you want. If that involves things that don't give loot, then should be no punishment.
No, you missed his point. YOUR point is that we're not taking the definition of scaling literally enough, but OUR point is that progressing as a character can make your character worse.
Cramming the entire game into a simple division sign is not viable when it is so complicated.
Also, arguments go nowhere. That's the nature of arguments.
EDIT: And please don't kick me from the guild for posting this in the thread. I stopped talking in guild chat, but this is still the pertinent conversation in the thread.
Alright, I'm serving my head on a silver platter for you. I made the mistake of bringing this argument over to the Guild chat in-game. I apologize for that poor display and I recognize that it was in poor taste and a mistake. Luckily I caught myself before it got out of hand and I apologized for my behavior. However, I will make this notice, if someone does what I just did and does not apologize for creating a drama of similar situations, I will proceed with kicks. If you recognized your misbehavior it's a different story. Just a notice.
Under-geared DOES exist, I can't' believe that's being argued at all. You can do whatever the hell you want, but ANET has never said it's a free ride. You can't ignore the whole gear part of your character and pretend that you shouldn't be "punished" for it.
Progression is more than just your level, it's also maintaing gear appropriate for your level. You're ignoring that completely.
I understand your point completely. I'm not saying I don't understand them. If I didn't understand them then why would I be making a retort? Making a retort without understand your opponent's position is poor rhetoric. I understand your stance. I'm saying that your stance is not what scaling is. The word your is interchangeable with his.
Guild chat is not the same thing as talking in OT. LOL. You must think I'm an idiot who lacks sense. Come on. Everyone should know these two domains are exclusive with its own rules.
Also, arguments DO go somewhere. You saying that is making me recognize your inability to conduct proper rhetoric and discussion.
Hmm, right. I suppose you're right, but it still feels a bit weird to me. Usually no-one does low level content except for completion's sake or to help other people out with hard quests or dungeons. If I do, it's either to satisfy my own desires (completion's sake) or others (helping people). Still doesn't feel like that deserves a harder challenge then a level 35 toon with level 35 gear, but I suppose that is the downside to pure scaling.
The entire reason for scaling to exist is that low-level content can still keep its challenge even if you are higher, but if you're not careful (or do not know this mechanic exists, which I fear is the majority since it's also not explained anywhere else) you might end up with an even harder challenge and wonder why that level 35 toon with level 35 gear is doing more damage even though you have more skills to play around with.
edit: something else. Since people find AC trash so hard, this Reddit post helped me immensely. Worth reading through if you're going AC. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/zeasu/dungeon_strategy_ascalonian_catacombs_story_mode/
The former.
So why are people outraged? Makes sense to me.
The whole argument is stasis.
Essentially, other people's idea of scaling doesn't align with ANet's idea of scaling. That's where the shift lies.
I think because it's so different that people have a hard time wrapping their head around it. Like an example someone put, was if they went into a dungeon at lvl 30, with lvl 30 gear... then went into it at lvl 40 with that same gear.. it'd be harder and that's unfair. Which it's not unfair and it's how it should be, but it's a foreign concept to people.
XeroSauce
Member
Okay, here is why I don't like this:
As a level 80 with level 70 gear:
You were already level 30, so you've already done anything a level 30 would have to do.
You SHOULD be punished for doing level 80 content with level 70 gear.
You should not be punished for doing level 30 content with level 70 gear, just because you decided to gain a few more levels. It makes it seem less desirable to go help your lower-level buddies because all of a sudden you have to work your butt off to get level 80 gear, just to do level 30 content without penalties, which isn't right.
You were already level 30, so you've already done anything a level 30 would have to do.
You SHOULD be punished for doing level 80 content with level 70 gear.
You should not be punished for doing level 30 content with level 70 gear, just because you decided to gain a few more levels. It makes it seem less desirable to go help your lower-level buddies because all of a sudden you have to work your butt off to get level 80 gear, just to do level 30 content without penalties, which isn't right.
^ I think that's the problem people are having.
EDIT: My question is, if you are a level 80 going into a level 30 dungeon with level 70 gear, what kind of gear drops? Level 30, level 70, or level 80?
dorkimoe
Member
thank you ill take a look
How is it coasting through lower level content?
Did you coast through explore mode at 35 with level 35 gear? No? Then why would it be different?
The dungeons don't have to drop gear at your level, they can drop gear at your minimum ilvl instead or something else. Hell AC explore drops tokens only for level 60 gear.
Yes, that sums it up. "BOOHOO YOU HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH GEAR," and then people in this thread saying don't buy karma gear while leveling, just save it up. Lol.
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