The problem with mmos has been 'game starts at end game' syndrome >_< Its like the days of /played you took to get there was.... like another game.
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Guild Wars 2 |OT| Buy Once, Sub Never, Fun Forever
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The problem with mmos has been 'game starts at end game' syndrome >_< Its like the days of /played you took to get there was.... like another game.
It did and it is, but that doesn't mean it needs content to do once you 'beat' the game, that only exists because people are paying for access months after release and need to be able to do something
And, it does have continuous content: there is World vs World and sPVP. There is A LOT more game here than there was in Guild Wars 1, although I do miss its much better PVP options
Azzurri
Member
That to me sounds like a cop out excuse. So will market it as a MMO, along with what everything "p2p" has, but don't complain when there's nothing to do at lvl 80, because you don't pay a monthly fee.
Now, GW2 is a great game, but the "endgame" for me seems pretty weak as of "now"
Ploid 3.0
Member
I didn't follow GW2 much before release but I knew about the gear being pretty much even for everyone with higher rewards being cosmetic. I kinda like that no one is forced to do such things just to be able to hang in with people on pvp stuff. It sounds like a good thing. If it wasn't focused on PVP so much I guess it would be kinda crazy to do it like this. Think of it as the prestige stuff people go after in COD.
Endgame is indeed awful. I have absolutely zero motivation or incentive to level up another profession to 80. In fact, after hitting endgame, I'm not even sure WHY I bothered leveling up to 80 on my warrior in the first place. I mean you're constantly fucking down leveled for the vast majority of content, you're automatically up-leveled for WvW and sPvP. The dungeons are awful and simplistic and the only reward after grinding them out 10-30 times is for some cosmetics that don't even appear in sPvP, only in WvW.
I'm still having a great time with GW2. Just taking my time, exploring all the zones, trying to level up my main crafts. I just don't feel a rush to grind to the highest level. I'm just enjoying the exploration and trying out the crafts and other professions. My highest level is only 38 and my alt is 19 so there is tons for me to do still.
End game is PvP right? I don't understand what else is different from other MMO's. I played WoW got to lv80 which was max at the time, and did dungeon grinds for better gear to make me kill things easier. In GW2 I now can grind dungeons for better looking gear, but its always going to be a challenge - in the very least much more than WoW/TOR ect. I'm honestly complexed when people argue about no end game, because from my short time with WoW/TOR and getting to max level or you did was grind instances at the end. If you don't like getting better stats on items that's a completely different issue and a personal preference. I much more enjoy GW2 approach to awesome looking cosmetic awards.
As a side point: I never raided in WoW cause quite frankly, I had no idea how to go about doing it. The game made no effort to even show me how I could find people to start it with or what it actually was. It was just dungeon finder over and over until I got bored and was like 'well that was a fun 2 months, no more.'
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the game isn't very good. I think the combat is interesting, and I love the visuals and music, but it just isn't a very satisfying package on the whole.
I'll still get my guy up to level 80, just because I'm having a decent amount of fun exploring the cool looking environments, but I don't imagine I'll stick around after that. That's fine, though, I guess, because the game isn't asking for a subscription. I'm sure I'll check it out again when they release an expansion.
It's not really about an end game for me, it's just that the game has zero sense of progression. You never really feel like you're getting stronger. You can get better at your class, which is cool, but you never feel like your character's power is actually increasing.
Right, as opposed to what? Comparing to wow, its just a treadmill, awful dungeons and repeating them endlessly for more gear and tokens so you get get higher level gear to get into higher ilvl content so you can get more tokens.... its the same shit. The only difference is GW2 doesnt have the stupid dragonballification of character power.
Tragicomedy
Member
For all you people bitching about us guardians:
I'm a mesmer with maxed out artifice crafting. That makes me a unique snowflake...
...except that I'm a human.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think a big problem the game is having for a lot of people initially is that it's not WoW, but it's been judged as WoW except designed all wrong.
I personally have no problem with level capping in zones so that they remain a challenge. I was never really enchanted by the WoW paradigm of getting a character to 80 then wandering around the game content as a god, smiting things. It wasn't really interesting. I'd rather have the entire game world remain relevant in terms of forcing me to actually play, rather than kill with my pinkie finger.
The purpose of getting stronger in the game is to gate the higher level zones so you can't just walk to the end of the game as soon as you start. You have to be careful about how you progress, and you need to do some stuff in the current area in order to be ready to survive the next one. Aside from the fact that when you go into a lower level cap, you keep skills, traits, specialties, and gear. You ARE more powerful than a vanilla player in lower level zones. You're just kept generally competitive.
I never saw Anet advertising this as just an MMO. At various points, they specifically stated it was a cross between a single player PC RPG and a multiplayer RPG, meant to straddle the line. The fact that there's no subscription means the treadmill isn't artificially lengthened to keep people playing. One problem I've seen a lot of players exhibit with this game is attacking it voraciously like WoW, trying to power level to 80 as fast as possible to "get to the real game", never realizing they were passing the real game by on the way there.
The powering through to 80 then getting angry that there's no clone of WoW's endgame also may be missing the point that even WoW today is not vanilla WoW. Some of the comments I see around the net, feel as if players are comparing a game that just started, and hasn't had any content drops or expansion, to WoW in its current state.
I do kind of agree with comments to the effect that for the time being, WvWvW is the 'endgame' once you get to 80 and have a full understanding of the game system, how your class works, and good gear. It's understandable if the game loses its appeal for those who just don't like the type of world vs world in this game, or don't like the sports-like PVP. I don't think that alone means it's bad game. But it's definitely not what a lot of players came in expecting.
Which is kind of weird. The aggregate opinion oft seems to be that it's a bad game because it simultaneously is too much like WoW ("these quests are just like WoW anyway") and not enough like WoW ("why is there no end game? Why can't I be 80 in every zone?")
I personally have no problem with level capping in zones so that they remain a challenge. I was never really enchanted by the WoW paradigm of getting a character to 80 then wandering around the game content as a god, smiting things. It wasn't really interesting. I'd rather have the entire game world remain relevant in terms of forcing me to actually play, rather than kill with my pinkie finger.
The purpose of getting stronger in the game is to gate the higher level zones so you can't just walk to the end of the game as soon as you start. You have to be careful about how you progress, and you need to do some stuff in the current area in order to be ready to survive the next one. Aside from the fact that when you go into a lower level cap, you keep skills, traits, specialties, and gear. You ARE more powerful than a vanilla player in lower level zones. You're just kept generally competitive.
I never saw Anet advertising this as just an MMO. At various points, they specifically stated it was a cross between a single player PC RPG and a multiplayer RPG, meant to straddle the line. The fact that there's no subscription means the treadmill isn't artificially lengthened to keep people playing. One problem I've seen a lot of players exhibit with this game is attacking it voraciously like WoW, trying to power level to 80 as fast as possible to "get to the real game", never realizing they were passing the real game by on the way there.
The powering through to 80 then getting angry that there's no clone of WoW's endgame also may be missing the point that even WoW today is not vanilla WoW. Some of the comments I see around the net, feel as if players are comparing a game that just started, and hasn't had any content drops or expansion, to WoW in its current state.
I do kind of agree with comments to the effect that for the time being, WvWvW is the 'endgame' once you get to 80 and have a full understanding of the game system, how your class works, and good gear. It's understandable if the game loses its appeal for those who just don't like the type of world vs world in this game, or don't like the sports-like PVP. I don't think that alone means it's bad game. But it's definitely not what a lot of players came in expecting.
Which is kind of weird. The aggregate opinion oft seems to be that it's a bad game because it simultaneously is too much like WoW ("these quests are just like WoW anyway") and not enough like WoW ("why is there no end game? Why can't I be 80 in every zone?")
NobleXenon
Member
Hey, does anyone have any details on how the down-leveling works stats wise? I know I should have taken a picture of my character's stats at level 5 and compare it to now as he is down-leveled to level 5 with level 80 armor, weapons, accessories with all of the upgrades applied to it. Then there are also all the traits that I selected and spec'd out. It feels like I'm more powerful in stater zones than when I first played there. It could be that I'm a much better player but I was just wondering if it wasn't just me.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Caudecus Manor is fast and easy (Queensdale). You can even pug it and the loot is good, including 3 or 4 chests.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Falls are my greatest downfall. A good 70% of my deaths are from falls where I was like "I can totally make this jump!"
CM story mode (good exp at later levels) and CoF Exp speed run.
Ghost Eater path in AC is easy once you know what to do
My end game experience in a previous MMO was a lot of: ask for room on instance run -> have gear inspected by party leader -> be rejected because I didn't have the necessary gear. You know, usually the one that you buy with tokens from that dungeon. I was a tank, so it wasn't even that they were being mean to me just because, I really needed better gear or if not the fights were really tough and not fun for anyone involved.
I decided to craft my own (which was basically the 4th best set of the end game options) because it was the path of least resistance that didn't require sitting outside spamming LFG for hours on end with poor results.
To craft it, other than getting my profession to high level and the usual stuff, I needed seals and rare crafting emblems (and I do mean rare, like think 1/100 chance to get it from a gathering node, maybe even less). The seals -of which I needed 6- were on a 7 day cooldown. There was an option to craft lower and medium quality seals, then exchange a bunch of them for the top tier. So low end seals were on a 24h cooldown, I needed 5 of these to get a medium one, which were on a 3 day cooldown, of which I needed about 7 to get a superior one. You do the math.
There was a high level area I could run for some rewards too, which was a good option for getting B tier gear. The way it worked was: get a group to do a set of prerequisite missions that should take you about 4-5 hours, then you get the repeatable quests that you can do once every 12hrs or so. The problem was, very few people if any at all were doing the prerequisite missions or wanted to help you with those.
Just to give you an example, I would spam LFG every once in a while to do these missions while I was on, and I managed to craft a full set of the previously mentioned gear before I got to finish the prerequisite missions with other people. Getting a 5 man team consisting of a tank, buffer, 2 DPS and heals is harder than you think, especially if there are other tanks like you competing for that one spot.
I must admit the gear hunt was an OK incentive to keep me connecting back into the game, maybe 15 minutes, maybe a couple of hours, but I did so consistently for about 3 months. The downside to this was that after buying the expansion, the instance cluster, the high level Raid, then 3 months of game time, I only manged to complete the story (skipping a lot of the content with no incentive to do lower level stuff) did about half of the token-giving instances no more than one time each, and never, ever got in a group to try the raid. That was overall more money than I paid for GW2.
I play more than most people I think, I have over 200hrs on GW2 already, but I'm no hardcore MMOer and never will be. While there are things from the other games I do enjoy, looking back to GW2 I am glad it is the way it is, faults and all. Even then, this game already has people asking for a specific class and a specific trait line to do token farming. It's just the way it is with super hardcore people I guess, just a mentality you can't give up. (Not that there isn't some sense to this method, but kinda shitty cookie cutter mentality nonetheless).
I just hope ANET distance themselves even more from the basics established by other games and try to have more variety AND direction in the coming months. In bunch of aspects there are only half way there and it shows.
I decided to craft my own (which was basically the 4th best set of the end game options) because it was the path of least resistance that didn't require sitting outside spamming LFG for hours on end with poor results.
To craft it, other than getting my profession to high level and the usual stuff, I needed seals and rare crafting emblems (and I do mean rare, like think 1/100 chance to get it from a gathering node, maybe even less). The seals -of which I needed 6- were on a 7 day cooldown. There was an option to craft lower and medium quality seals, then exchange a bunch of them for the top tier. So low end seals were on a 24h cooldown, I needed 5 of these to get a medium one, which were on a 3 day cooldown, of which I needed about 7 to get a superior one. You do the math.
There was a high level area I could run for some rewards too, which was a good option for getting B tier gear. The way it worked was: get a group to do a set of prerequisite missions that should take you about 4-5 hours, then you get the repeatable quests that you can do once every 12hrs or so. The problem was, very few people if any at all were doing the prerequisite missions or wanted to help you with those.
Just to give you an example, I would spam LFG every once in a while to do these missions while I was on, and I managed to craft a full set of the previously mentioned gear before I got to finish the prerequisite missions with other people. Getting a 5 man team consisting of a tank, buffer, 2 DPS and heals is harder than you think, especially if there are other tanks like you competing for that one spot.
I must admit the gear hunt was an OK incentive to keep me connecting back into the game, maybe 15 minutes, maybe a couple of hours, but I did so consistently for about 3 months. The downside to this was that after buying the expansion, the instance cluster, the high level Raid, then 3 months of game time, I only manged to complete the story (skipping a lot of the content with no incentive to do lower level stuff) did about half of the token-giving instances no more than one time each, and never, ever got in a group to try the raid. That was overall more money than I paid for GW2.
I play more than most people I think, I have over 200hrs on GW2 already, but I'm no hardcore MMOer and never will be. While there are things from the other games I do enjoy, looking back to GW2 I am glad it is the way it is, faults and all. Even then, this game already has people asking for a specific class and a specific trait line to do token farming. It's just the way it is with super hardcore people I guess, just a mentality you can't give up. (Not that there isn't some sense to this method, but kinda shitty cookie cutter mentality nonetheless).
I just hope ANET distance themselves even more from the basics established by other games and try to have more variety AND direction in the coming months. In bunch of aspects there are only half way there and it shows.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
How do people craft wondrous items D:
voodoopanda
Member
Guild Wars 2 works out for me because my favorite part of MMOs has always been exploring and questing, along with the social element. Never really cared about loot, aside from appearance. The joy of making numbers bigger has just never sunk its talons into me. WoW, the MMO I played the most, I usually tried to do every quest I could find in a zone before moving to the next, even if they were grey and gave no XP. Once I hit cap, I continued doing the high level zone quests. I'm the kind of player who goes really slowly and does things like talk to every single NPC in an area. I even read every quest text in WoW. Running an instance was fun maybe the first ~3 times, but once I saw everything and did the instance quests I lost interest in doing them over again, regardless of what kind of loot they dropped. I also don't have a problem with taking long breaks from a game. Right now I think I'm at about 20% map completion, and the amount of time I play has slowed down, so I have a long road ahead of me. Wouldn't be surprised if new content patches come out before I hit 100%.
But my style definitely seems like a minority compared to everyone else I've ever played MMos with haha.
But my style definitely seems like a minority compared to everyone else I've ever played MMos with haha.
AC ghost eater was fun. Dont think ill do it a whole lot again since other dungeons just offer more incentive for me, but id definitely like to complete the other paths.
So yea, I think dungeons, completing the map, and alts will keep me busy for a while. if i get bored or worn down, ill take a break. Simple
So yea, I think dungeons, completing the map, and alts will keep me busy for a while. if i get bored or worn down, ill take a break. Simple
Thanks!
NobleXenon
Member
I'm similar too. I'll talk to and follow every NPC to see what they do at certain times (which in this game may trigger DEs). I'll read books that are just laying around to get lore. I'll explore every nook and cranny possible (which in this game results in chests). I'm also a completionist. I'll make sure to get all of my titles in this game like I did with GW1 (I have GWAMM+ as well as Champion of the Gods), collect every dye on my main, etc.
I don't know if I'll ever hit 80 personally. I work too often as of late. I do feel like the sense of progression in terms of power just isn't that, but meh, whatever. If I do hit 80, I hope to do some random stuff with GAF. Otherwise, it is finishing zones 100%.
This is the downside of being f2p now. I don't feel the urge to play when I'm tired or beat from work. So, I don't. With other MMOs, I wouldn't want to waste my subscription.
This is the downside of being f2p now. I don't feel the urge to play when I'm tired or beat from work. So, I don't. With other MMOs, I wouldn't want to waste my subscription.
Mr. Luchador
Member
You see I don't mind that at all. Days when I'm tired after work I can actually wind down instead of grinding out with a highly strung guild that pretends they're elite! Can just dip in and out when I feel like it.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Crown symbols are the ones with titles.
Zyrusticae
Banned
I get a definite sense of power progression from going up in gear grades (masterwork -> rare, rare -> exotic), as even when I'm downleveled, I still notice I'm killing things a lot faster than I used to at that same level. This is because at lower levels the higher grades of gear simply did not exist (rare doesn't really become a thing until level 60), so you're downleveled to whatever the zone is but with the higher-grade gear (and traits).
That being said, once you're full-up on level 80 exotics, there is indeed little further power progression to be made. As far as I'm concerned, this is a good thing. The gear treadmill lost its motivating effect on me once I became aware that I was just becoming a victim of the skinner box. Actually, it eventually become actively demotivating when I realized that I was playing more for the numbers and less for the actual experience of playing the game.
There are still going to be folks who play for the numbers (and always will be, most likely), but I can't help but shake my head when folks do it at the expense of their own gaming experience. It really isn't worth the hassle.
That being said, once you're full-up on level 80 exotics, there is indeed little further power progression to be made. As far as I'm concerned, this is a good thing. The gear treadmill lost its motivating effect on me once I became aware that I was just becoming a victim of the skinner box. Actually, it eventually become actively demotivating when I realized that I was playing more for the numbers and less for the actual experience of playing the game.
There are still going to be folks who play for the numbers (and always will be, most likely), but I can't help but shake my head when folks do it at the expense of their own gaming experience. It really isn't worth the hassle.
Yea, i went back to a lowbie zone wearing rares (not even runed up either) and i was destroying things really quickly
If youre not owning a lowbie zone, chances are that your gear is simply not up to date. gear matters a lot
That's not a downside of the game - more like an issue with your own perspective.
Well, whatever. It's not an "issue". It's just easier to put away and forget about.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Are you not able to play cross server yet? My friend just got the game but stormbluff is full
Not yet. They are going to eventually put this in, but they're trying to get stabilized populations before that happens.
Just a note: Your friend won't be able to play WvW with you if you both are on different servers. Right now, as far as I know, ANet is still offering free server transfers so your friend can take advantage of that as soon as Stormbluff opens up.
You should play games because you want to play them at that moment and not because of some sense of guilt over not playing them.
Since the Chef Outfit is on Promotional sale, I'm going to try to make some extra gold on the TP and buy it through the conversion. It's like 1g67s for the 560 gems it costs right now.
Since the Chef Outfit is on Promotional sale, I'm going to try to make some extra gold on the TP and buy it through the conversion. It's like 1g67s for the 560 gems it costs right now.
njean777
Member
This right here, I played WOW for about a year and I do not want that treadmill mentality ever again. It was fun, but if I am not playing WOW, I do not want it. I like the way GW2 is. (except the weapon crafting, its a little confusing to me).
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Okay now I want to make a Whispers character (probably my mesmer) because of Tybalt Lightpaw.
ZackusMaximus
Banned
I'm going to level up artifacting on my charr mesmer just to be more specialer than you.
Tragicomedy
Member
Dangit! And it's super easy, too. :/
hockeypuck
Member
C'mon Anet, when I craft three consecutive Rare heavy armor sets (lvl 35, 50, 65), at least make the third set look somewhat different. Getting the exact same gladiator skin for the third time was disappointing. Doesn't bode well for my next Rare set.
It's like, on the one hand, you understand it's a solid game (good combat and presentation), and that it succeeds at what it's trying to do (put player skill to the forefront so that one finds success as they get better at the game), but somehow you come to the conclusion that it's not good.
I think you meant to say it wasn't a good MMO, in whatever definition the genre carries in your mind. Though that requires more assumption on my part and I'm not going to go put words in your mouth. Regardless, from only your post itself, I see nothing but conflicting statements that should actually support your claims, but instead they refute them.
I've hit a snag with huntsman in the 50s. I think I'm gonna drop it for chef even though I already invested so much money and time.
At the 50 range on Huntsman or at level 50 items for Huntsman?
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