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Guild Wars 2 |OT| Buy Once, Sub Never, Fun Forever

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"And exploration and Story Quests. Sometimes there's things that aren't tied to a heart or DE which are like an open world little dungeon, many of these things with treasure rewards at the end. There's an organ to be found where if you play the GW2 theme, it opens up a treasure for you. There's another organ in Ebonhawke you can play, but I don't know what it does yet and what triggers it."


He's pretty much talking specifically about Renown Hearts/Dynamic events, not the exploration/jumping puzzle aspects which he's praised.
 

TheYanger

Member
And exploration and Story Quests. Sometimes there's things that aren't tied to a heart or DE which are like an open world little dungeon, many of these things with treasure rewards at the end. There's an organ to be found where if you play the GW2 theme, it opens up a treasure for you. There's another organ in Ebonhawke you can play, but I don't know what it does yet and what triggers it.

Yeah, those are done too. If you mean wandering the world doing things that don't actually do anything at all, there's very little of that, and you can do that in any game. I mean, there's that guy that played the 2nd level of Bubsy 3d 1000 times or whatever, that doesn't mean it's something I should aspire to. Exploration is part of 'doing' a zone, it's done. The topic at hand was 'quest' variety (quests being DE/s and Hearts), and there is none. It's awful. That was my original point. The fact that people keep bringing up other things doesn't diminish that point.

He's pretty much talking specifically about Renown Hearts/Dynamic events, not the exploration/jumping puzzle aspects which he's praised.

^ this. If they would add more of this and add no more escorts and kill wave quests, I'd be a very happy camper.
 

Morokh

Member
If we want to drop it to vanilla you can take out Arenas even, I didn't include mists stuff because it adds a few more.

Arenas AND Battlegrounds weren't there at launch, the first unofficial Wow Battleground was called Booty Bay, and it ruined everyone's day.
 

Ashodin

Member
Your post can easily be said for you as well, except that I've presented arguments for my points and nobody who disagrees really has. Whatever, going to bed. The game might not have subs, but if Anet doesn't address the basic issues with the game nobody will be playing it in 6 months (before you get all pissy, nobody means significantly less, not LITERALLY nobody).

Actually, the reason I don't post myself is because I'd rather not entangle myself in long diatribes, which is why I made that huge post about a lot of the concerns in the game.

I don't particularly enjoy the fact that you are on record thinking the people in here are generally stupid and/or aren't smart enough to respond to your criticisms. It's just that we know you are obstinate in your rebuttals that trying is akin to talking to a brick wall.

There are people who agree with you on certain things, if only because they are ignoring the good things about the game (that syndrome where only negatives show up for you psychological factor), or agreeing with you just to agree. If any of them have any opinions otherwise, I'd love to hear it.

I find it interesting to think you think people are going to not play it in 6 months when anything could happen between then and now, and the game hasn't even been live for a month yet. The first month is always a leg-stretcher for any MMO, where they fix problems and seal exploits that an alpha team or even Beta Weekend Events can't find. Every MMO goes through this.

And dungeons are particularly hard because much like in WoW's early days, PUGing them was extremely inefficient because people were getting a handle on how the game plays and works.

The exact same thing is happening here.

I would rather say that the people I've been grouping with lately has had no trouble at all doing the Explorable modes of Ascalonian Catacombs, Caduceus Manor, and so forth. The reason a lot of people (which is not 90%, I don't know where you got that statistic) are bemoaning them is because they're difficult. Especially in a group with random people.
 
Finally got the experience survivor achievement after banging my head for the past few days figuring out why the bar doesn't move. I just need to salvage a couple more items and then I got all the monthly achievements completed, but damn that was an annoying achievement to complete (though I heard it gets easier to do at lvl 80 which I'm not). Oh well, I can finally do the fun stuff now like dungeon runs and WvW.
 

Ashodin

Member
Finally got the experience survivor achievement after banging my head for the past few days figuring out why the bar doesn't move. I just need to salvage a couple more items and then I got all the monthly achievements completed, but damn that was an annoying achievement to complete (though I heard it gets easier to do at lvl 80 which I'm not). Oh well, I can finally do the fun stuff now like dungeon runs and WvW.

It's actually extremely easy to do at Level 80. The only really hard part is WvW kills, unless you are in a good tangle of people often.
 

putarorex

Member
I've got my engineer to 80 and cooking and hunstman to 400. I am going to start playing alts now because I find the end-game zones frustrating. I love exploring in the game but the mob density and respawn times in Orr mean I end up playing in zergs, which I find dull. It is just a race from one event to another, punctuated by seizure-inducing spam fests. If I find something interesting in the zone, I get left behind and the rapid respawns kill me. Occassionally I find a smaller group but the focus on karma in the end game means they eventually end up tagging along in some zerg. I still have a good number of zones I haven't completed yet so an alt should be fun. I suppose I could also try some of the later level dungeons.
 
It's actually extremely easy to do at Level 80. The only really hard part is WvW kills, unless you are in a good tangle of people often.

The only aggravating part was finding out that changing zones resets the amount which I only found out recently. Does the reward scale by any chance or is it all the same?
 

Ashodin

Member
The only aggravating part was finding out that changing zones resets the amount which I only found out recently. Does the reward scale by any chance or is it all the same?

It's the same. Mystic Coins are used for various recipes (including making Exotic Weapons, which will help you out doing content).

Right now they've implemented Coin recipes that let you get some money back (and a chance at a portable mystic forge)!

I personally use the coins for Exotics, then sell them on the trading post for money right now. It's one of the best ways to infuse your gold amount so you can save up for T3 cultural pieces (which I have yet to see people wearing, which I probably think because it's extremely expensive), other gear from the trading post you need, or using it for siege weapons in WvW.
 

Audioboxer

Member
Looks like trading post is down? How much is Night Shade Dye worth, and should I sell it? Got it on my level 4 character, the money might help me out at a lower level?
 

etiolate

Banned
"And exploration and Story Quests. Sometimes there's things that aren't tied to a heart or DE which are like an open world little dungeon, many of these things with treasure rewards at the end. There's an organ to be found where if you play the GW2 theme, it opens up a treasure for you. There's another organ in Ebonhawke you can play, but I don't know what it does yet and what triggers it."


He's pretty much talking specifically about Renown Hearts/Dynamic events, not the exploration/jumping puzzle aspects which he's praised.

Even exempting those type of things (and I don't see why they're exempt), there's still way more variety than vanilla WoW.

-Kill Waves
-Escort

But then

-Bunny Food Heart
-Snowballs at Kids
-Stealth Mini-Game
-Chicken stealing
-Breaking up Fights
-Dousing Drunks
-Find Hiding Children
-Devourer Mating
-Beer Drinking
-Luring Crabs into Crates
-Protest
-Food Tasting
-Conversational Dialogues
-Math Problems
-Chess
-Siege Target Practice
-Put Out Fires
-Feed Animals, etc
-Solve Riddles

I'm half awake, so there's probably more than that. Even traditional ones like "bring me harpy feathers" offer twists involving bundle weapons that give you special abilities and a way to pluck feathers from stealth instead of kill n collect.
 
Well, back from vacation and can't wait to start playing again. I'm assuming everybody is 80, heh?

I'll be able to really start playing this upcoming week and I see no distractions (besides regular stuff) so hopefully I'll be able to catch up!
 
"We're actually hanging in there against henge >.<"

They actually changed the scoring, so ticks only happen once every 15 minutes instead of every 5 minutes. The scores look closer than they actually are.
 

Zafir

Member
Actually, the reason I don't post myself is because I'd rather not entangle myself in long diatribes, which is why I made that huge post about a lot of the concerns in the game.

I don't particularly enjoy the fact that you are on record thinking the people in here are generally stupid and/or aren't smart enough to respond to your criticisms. It's just that we know you are obstinate in your rebuttals that trying is akin to talking to a brick wall.

There are people who agree with you on certain things, if only because they are ignoring the good things about the game (that syndrome where only negatives show up for you psychological factor), or agreeing with you just to agree. If any of them have any opinions otherwise, I'd love to hear it.

I find it interesting to think you think people are going to not play it in 6 months when anything could happen between then and now, and the game hasn't even been live for a month yet. The first month is always a leg-stretcher for any MMO, where they fix problems and seal exploits that an alpha team or even Beta Weekend Events can't find. Every MMO goes through this.

And dungeons are particularly hard because much like in WoW's early days, PUGing them was extremely inefficient because people were getting a handle on how the game plays and works.

The exact same thing is happening here.

I would rather say that the people I've been grouping with lately has had no trouble at all doing the Explorable modes of Ascalonian Catacombs, Caduceus Manor, and so forth. The reason a lot of people (which is not 90%, I don't know where you got that statistic) are bemoaning them is because they're difficult. Especially in a group with random people.

No, a lot of us never moaned about the dungeons being difficult. A lot of us moaned that they just aren't balanced. When you have trash mobs more difficult than bosses, and mid bosses more difficult than end bosses and so on, you know you've got balancing issues.

I actually really like the rest of the game(bar spvp, but that's another matter entirely), hell some of the dungeon bosses are rather challenging and fun, so I'm not blind hating despite popular belief.
 

Ken

Member
What do you guys think is the most fun light armor class for PvE? Almost done fully gearing my Warrior and don't really want to return to my Guardian yet so I'm looking for a fun light armor class to play.
 

Zafir

Member
What do you guys think is the most fun light armor class for PvE? Almost done fully gearing my Warrior and don't really want to return to my Guardian yet so I'm looking for a fun light armor class to play.
Mesmer probably has the most interesting mechanics.
 

arimanius

Member
What do you guys think is the most fun light armor class for PvE? Almost done fully gearing my Warrior and don't really want to return to my Guardian yet so I'm looking for a fun light armor class to play.

I have altitis and Mesmer is my highest class(level 30). It plays different than any of the other classes IMO.
 

Won

Member
What do you guys think is the most fun light armor class for PvE? Almost done fully gearing my Warrior and don't really want to return to my Guardian yet so I'm looking for a fun light armor class to play.

I think they all suck. Stick to the Guardian!

Can't decide on a light class myself. :/
 

Flunkie

Banned
Just started out. Like it so far, as it's my first big title MMO. Any tips on combat? I keep wanting to play it like an action RPG and get my fingers confused trying to move and use my skills simultaneously.
 
I get a definite sense of power progression from going up in gear grades (masterwork -> rare, rare -> exotic), as even when I'm downleveled, I still notice I'm killing things a lot faster than I used to at that same level.

This is my experience too. While it's fun to be massively over levelled in a RPG and just kill an entire town, it also takes away the sense of dread. I noticed that it's difficult for me to chat in GW2 - It's because im constantly participating and using my own skill.


Last night in Brisban, a camp was taken over by Bandits, but it was not an event so they kept respawning. As a lvl 41, I was still downscaled but thanks to my exotic weapon, my elite, and the upgrades on my weapons I feel confident that I killed a lot faster. It was immensely more satisfying and fun than the combat in any MMO I've played before, because the majority of the win came from me, and not from an exchange of stats with me as a passive chatting participant.



I freaking adore this game. I don't care what I do, as long as the game gives me a reason to kill stuff with other players. That is all these games end games are.


Also, I would like to point out that plenty of MMOs have had an mentality were you would hit a cap, drop subscription until new content/expansion and then resub. I believe that millions of players are doing that.

I also believe that the fabled alternative, is not better. I get the sense that a lot of people who do the raid game of WoW, while addicted to it, also hates it.

You should only play it as long as it's fun. Forever fun can't exist and never have. If you had fun playing, then nothing is wasted. It's a strange attitude to me, to become dissapointed that it would not be fun after it was excerted. I believe you get a lot of really fun game for your money when you buy GW2 contra other games. They always said they didn't want a carrot on a stick.



And finally there is plenty of end game. It's fine if you don't think it's worth it, or if it's not motivating you. It shouldn't have to with carrot-on-a-stick-uber-items. You should just play it because you wanna log in and kill stuff with your friends. If you don't want to do that after getting to 80, then that's fine. You've had your fill. But that is not the same thing as saying as there weren't a cake. There is plenty of cake. Lots of people will hopefully enjoy getting all the achievements, 100% ing zones, learning all the crafting recipes, making a name for themselves in WvW, mastering sPvP, crafting legendary weapons, playing different characters with different stories, races, factions and classes.


Lord of the Rings Online was a game that just came to a halt. I believe the community was overall nicer for being a smaller, but also because it was not as tedious and drawn out. The cool thing about the cosmetic carrot-on-a-stick items of guild wars is that they are optional. they wont make you owned in PvP like they would in games like WoW. you got plenty of options with 250+ three layered dyes and transmutations to make yourself a great looking character if you dont feel like doing that stuff. But there is stuff for you to do, if you want to.



GW2 is being faithful to how Guild Wars 1 did its end game, but it's just expanded exponentionally. It's not going to satisfy you if you want World of Warcraft. It's not a seperate pass time to have it's raids. But bloody hell, this game kicks my balls every time I log in. Every freaking time. I feel a sense of place in this game, i've not felt since Planetside and BF1942. Perhaps the early days of Left 4 Dead. As far as an online games It's wonderful. I really look at it as an online game, because I am so bored and unimpressed about what MMOs have become. I don't even think GW2 is the direction other MMOs need to go in. MMOs needs to get back into sandboxing, SWG style and do what normal games cant. Get out of the cohesive, singular streamlined linear progression and storytelling.

GW2 like GW1 stands on its sidelines, still saying fuck you to dungeons and dragons and board games and dice rolling. It don't want the gear dependency, the treadmill of other MMOs. It doesn't care, and I am glad. I'm glad, because GW2 for both better and worse does not need to do what those other games are doing. WoW is still a great game, and its out there as strong as ever if you want more of that.
 

Piecake

Member
I've got my engineer to 80 and cooking and hunstman to 400. I am going to start playing alts now because I find the end-game zones frustrating. I love exploring in the game but the mob density and respawn times in Orr mean I end up playing in zergs, which I find dull. It is just a race from one event to another, punctuated by seizure-inducing spam fests. If I find something interesting in the zone, I get left behind and the rapid respawns kill me. Occassionally I find a smaller group but the focus on karma in the end game means they eventually end up tagging along in some zerg. I still have a good number of zones I haven't completed yet so an alt should be fun. I suppose I could also try some of the later level dungeons.

Frostgorge sound is awesome. Orr sucks balls unless you are with a group, and then it just sucks less balls

So yea, go to Frostgorge Sound

I personally use the coins for Exotics, then sell them on the trading post for money right now. It's one of the best ways to infuse your gold amount so you can save up for T3 cultural pieces (which I have yet to see people wearing, which I probably think because it's extremely expensive), other gear from the trading post you need, or using it for siege weapons in WvW.

You need a mystic coin for exotics? Is it an actual recipe? bit confused on the whole mystic forge thing. Thought the only way to get exotics was just random chance if you just chuck 4 rares in there
 

pyrandes

Member
What do you guys think is the most fun light armor class for PvE? Almost done fully gearing my Warrior and don't really want to return to my Guardian yet so I'm looking for a fun light armor class to play.

Ive been having a crapload of fun on my mesmer.

Elementalist can be imteresting; the affinity swap system definitly takes the place of normal weapon swaps, and i can see some interesting strategy brewing from knowin what situations call upon the right affinity.

Ive been meaning to try a necro as well. I have one started but havent dove in yet.

------------------

Having not played for 2-3 days, im jonsong for some playtime now. Probably thinking CoF story when i get home from my 4-5 hr drive.
 

KingKong

Member
Like I said before, my main issue with DEs (hearts are usually pointless and are mainly used to get people to hang around ans hopefully do the events that come up) is the low level of interactivity and the zerg

So for example, the most enjoyable DE I had was when one person started an event where just me and him had to light a fire to attract a griffon and fight it . This was exciting and kind of difficult. If there were 15 people fighting it, it would have been a joke

Just yesterday I had an interesting (on paper) event chain: protect NPC until he summons a giant scorpion, then go clear out an area to free the charr stuck in a cave, then go rescue the prisoner nearby and escort them back to the cave. Now that sounds awesome and it was pretty fun but 1) the zerg made this super easy and unsatisfying and 2) modern day WoW would have had the player pilot the giant scorpion, which this game cant do
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
Has there been any word on ArenaNet adding a first person view? I also wouldn't mind the camera pivoting from the shoulder as opposed to the lower back.
 

Kayo-kun

Member
Me and a few other gaffers tried to clear an AC explore run today but had some hard time trying to help Tzark defend the essence collectors (or whatever they were called) in the room with burrows. Does anyone have any tips on how to approach this specific room or the dungeon in general? We were all over level 35, but I still got the feeling that it was harder than it was supposed to be.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
It's like, on the one hand, you understand it's a solid game (good combat and presentation), and that it succeeds at what it's trying to do (put player skill to the forefront so that one finds success as they get better at the game), but somehow you come to the conclusion that it's not good.

I think you meant to say it wasn't a good MMO, in whatever definition the genre carries in your mind. Though that requires more assumption on my part and I'm not going to go put words in your mouth. Regardless, from only your post itself, I see nothing but conflicting statements that should actually support your claims, but instead they refute them.

Yeah, it's kind of tough. The combat is novel, and I think it can be pretty cool, but that's only in the context of an MMORPG. Outside of the context of the MMORPG genre, I don't think anyone would praise the combat, because it's really not all that great. It took standard MMO combat, greatly increased the tempo, and required players to constantly be circle strafing, dodging, and cycling through weapons or attunements. It then got rid of aggro mechanics as well as any reliable way to tank or heal, making the end result rather chaotic in PvE.

I guess my problem is that the game presents itself as a fairly standard MMORPG, but it doesn't have the progression aspects that make MMORPGs so satisfying. Obviously this is just my opinion, but loot progression, ability progression, encounter progression (being able to defeat more and more difficult enemies) are a big part of what makes the gameplay of MMORPGs fun to me. That stuff really just doesn't exist in Guild Wars 2 despite the fact that, on the surface, it looks like a pretty standard MMORPG (levels, hotkey abilities, stats, loot with varying rarities and attributes, dungeons and bosses, etc.).

To me, it feels like the teams working on the gameplay and the teams working on the world and PvE content didn't speak to each other. They obviously spent the majority of their resources making PvE content and building the world, but it's quite obvious at the same time that PvE is not the focus of the gameplay. It's really strange in my opinion.
 
So I come from a background of Everquest, WoW and a bunch of different FTP MMO's. I am absolutely loving GW , but my main gripe so far is, in my opinion, it feels like there is a huge disconnect in the community and social part of the game. I am sure this will change once I actually get into a guild and get to a higher level, but compared to traditional mmo's everyone just seems to keep to themselves and I don't feel that community aspect like I have in previous games despite hundreds of people all over the place.

Everything else has been great though. I love the questing, events, and zone completion. I have yet to feel like I can't find anything to do or struggle and stay up all night just to get that next level.
 

Llyranor

Member
Yeah, it's kind of tough. The combat is novel, and I think it can be pretty cool, but that's only in the context of an MMORPG. Outside of the context of the MMORPG genre, I don't think anyone would praise the combat, because it's really not all that great. It took standard MMO combat, greatly increased the tempo, and required players to constantly be circle strafing, dodging, and cycling through weapons or attunements.
I don't think that's fair to just say "it's good enough... I guess.... for a MMORPG". Actually, my favorite part of the game is sPvP, where the combat shines shines the most for me. I love the combat's reliance in fairly equal parts on both the action component, and the usage of skills. Combines action and 'RPG' in a balanced way that really tickles my gameplay bones. sPvP doesn't feel MMORPG at all, too, so for me the combat stands out on its own merits.
 

Ricker

Member
Me and a few other gaffers tried to clear an AC explore run today but had some hard time trying to help Tzark defend the essence collectors (or whatever they were called) in the room with burrows. Does anyone have any tips on how to approach this specific room or the dungeon in general? We were all over level 35, but I still got the feeling that it was harder than it was supposed to be.

It is harder then it's suppose to be...don't fret it and do what most people do after a few try,forget about it and move on,unless you want a high repair bill or you like a challenge...you need 4 other people that try all kind of combination to make it work...if you find PuG like that,you are lucky...

The GAF guild seem to have some people who make it,maybe they can share their tips,especially those that say it's easy... ;)
 

Kayo-kun

Member
It is harder then it's suppose to be...don't fret it and do what most people do after a few try,forget about it and move on,unless you want a high repair bill or you like a challenge...you need 4 other people that try all kind of combination to make it work...if you find PuG like that,you are lucky...

The GAF guild seem to have some people who make it,maybe they can share their tips,especially those that say it's easy... ;)

Easy? Haha thats a good one. Maybe if the party members are around level 80 and have high end gear.
 

KingKong

Member
It is. That's just meant to convey that Anet can certainly make riding giant scorpions possible in GW2. It just (probably) isn't there right now.

....Yes, because it is dynamic events and not instanced zones, which was my point. I'm sure they can make a vehicle in the game, but they can't make a vehicle for one person in a dynamic event
 
Ok so for someone that will be starting out (as soon as the download's done) :

- what would generally be considered one of the best experiences for novices as far as class and race are concerned? (i do NOT have very much gaming time on my hands so i probably won't get around to different twinks etc. right away)

- is there some content for 2-3 players? i heard a lot of people either solo or are in larger guilds but what if you only have like 2 or 3 friends to constantly play with?
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
So I come from a background of Everquest, WoW and a bunch of different FTP MMO's. I am absolutely loving GW , but my main gripe so far is, in my opinion, it feels like there is a huge disconnect in the community and social part of the game. I am sure this will change once I actually get into a guild and get to a higher level, but compared to traditional mmo's everyone just seems to keep to themselves and I don't feel that community aspect like I have in previous games despite hundreds of people all over the place.

Everything else has been great though. I love the questing, events, and zone completion. I have yet to feel like I can't find anything to do or struggle and stay up all night just to get that next level.

I think this is because that, outside of dungeon runs, grouping is just so passive. All of the people milling about in the world may as well just be NPCs, honestly. There's really not much benefit to actually creating a group with other players. You can see this in the way abilities work to. I don't think any beneficial abilities are targeted in this game. They are either self-only or effect everyone within a certain area. You can't target heal a player, or cast a buff on them to help them out. Hell, my revive ability on my Elementalist doesn't even let me choose which party member I revive.

I think they took their passive angle to such an extreme that it actually discourages social interaction.
 

Ashodin

Member
Me and a few other gaffers tried to clear an AC explore run today but had some hard time trying to help Tzark defend the essence collectors (or whatever they were called) in the room with burrows. Does anyone have any tips on how to approach this specific room or the dungeon in general? We were all over level 35, but I still got the feeling that it was harder than it was supposed to be.

Easy? Haha thats a good one. Maybe if the party members are around level 80 and have high end gear.

First question: Is all your guys gear near their level? If not, why not? The game scales based on Level. If you're Level 35, and your gear is Level 20, you're not going to do very much. Go buy some Karma gear, you'll get it back later easy.

Second question: Are you communicating where the burrows are showing up on the fight? You should be marking the burrow with a target sign, and then trying to fight enemies on top of it for melee to hit the burrow and the gravelings. Have the melee fight directly on top of the burrow, so they don't miss on swings.

Third question: Are you trying to destroy all the burrows or just hold out the fight? You can destroy burrows at the beginning of the fight, but then past 50% the fight needs to become damage control and slowing down enemies becomes your priority (using chill, cripple, etc) while you keep them off Tzark.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think that's fair to just say "it's good enough... I guess.... for a MMORPG". Actually, my favorite part of the game is sPvP, where the combat shines shines the most for me. I love the combat's reliance in fairly equal parts on both the action component, and the usage of skills. Combines action and 'RPG' in a balanced way that really tickles my gameplay bones. sPvP doesn't feel MMORPG at all, too, so for me the combat stands out on its own merits.

Fair enough. I'll admit that I really don't like instanced PvP, so this game's PvP isn't something I've done a whole lot of.

I'm mainly talking about the PvE combat, which is new and different in many ways, but overall I don't think it's that great.
 

docbon

Member
Easy? Haha thats a good one. Maybe if the party members are around level 80 and have high end gear.

The high end gear just gets scaled down. Traits can make a big difference though.

The biggest help for our team was having two engineers with the extra grenade + increased grenade range trait slamming two different mounds with our AOE attacks so that none of the hatchlings could get out alive. The rest of the group beat on any other mounds that appeared, along with the bigger gravelings. Had a few moments where a graveling or two would beat on the essence collector, but it was a real smooth run for the most part.
 

Moobabe

Member
I read the "we've changed end game forever" blog post and rolled my eyes slightly - I'm still being forced to grind stupid amounts for max level gear...
 
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