-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
- Status
That's how OT threads tend to work, some of the excuses also tend to be jawdroppingly stupid. Use DIY arguments outside of an OT would get you chewed up but hey, it's a safe-zone in here.
From now on, anyone complains about sounds or music in any game I'll just tell them to make their own. Most games allows you to change sounds, so hey it's valid. For all 10,000+ sounds.
OT circle jerks is the best thing about Gaf.
Gonna fill mine up with Star Wars music.
PenguinPoacher
Member
Guess what? A lot of people that play MMOs don't give a shit about the music. I don't think I ever have my game volume up unless I am in a dungeon and I probably couldn't tell you what one in game song sounds like. I either have the TV going if I am questing or music playing if I am pvping.
But this thread is basically people whining about irrelevant shit because no developer actually reads this thread. So instead of talking about different trait builds or quests lets just fire up another post to bitch.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
A handful of people happened, is all. That's all it takes.
flyinpiranha
Member
Music is an OPINION. it's not a 'fact'. I personally enjoy the music. Somebody mentions that you can change it and now it's a 10 hour job sorting through Beiber records?
How is that even a reasonable jump in conversation?
aliencowz7
Member
To be perfectly fair, even though I agree with the vast majority of your complaints you do present your opinions in a bit of an abrasive manner. You can't really be surprised that people might get defensive over it.
I don't mean to say that you are doing anything wrong, just that I wouldn't really be super surprised be the reaction it provokes.
PenguinPoacher
Member
Some of your complaints are jawdroppingly stupid.
Hahaha, oh God. This is embarassing. The guy's even swearing now.
If it's "irrelevant shit" and "people don't give a shit about the music", then move on and stop trying to pick a fight with the guy with ad hominem attacks just because he doesn't enjoy the game you do. He's free to say and complain about whatever the hell he wants to, and if you don't feel comfortable with that, then maybe you should leave this thread.
Who would've thought trying to discuss a game in that game's OT would be frowned upon? The more you know.
Yes, it's an opinion. His opinion. I never said otherwise. Why did you guys jump on him for stating his opinion in the first place? Care to explain?
I don't even agree with the guy's opinions, but I have to defend him because he's not doing anything wrong. He has the right to state how he feels about the game.
Unfortunately I do know that every single GAF MMO OT heads in this "you can't say anything bad about our game!" direction eventually. It's inevitable, apparently.
MoonLightWave
Member
edit:nvm
Audioboxer
Member
That is definitely true, but I'm not necessarily looking for it replicated in that sense. If I want WoW, I play WoW. I'm looking critically at my GW2 experience.
There are simply parts of WoW (and other MMOs - I'm simply most familiar with WoW), that the GW2 developers didn't really need to try and radically change/remove/add to.
My simple point (yet it's not really simple technically) is the actual levelling process in GW2 is not meeting my needs as much as I thought it would. I don't feel like I'm ever really progressing in the leaps I did when I played WoW. People can tell me it changes massively at 60+ or even maybe 50, but that's too late. I don't want to feel like level 1 up to level 60.
Zyrusticae
Banned
Um, are you guys just completely ignoring the karma vendors? Because they have unique armor and weapon skins all over the place (changes with every level tier, too - that is to say, every 10 levels).
That aside, I still don't understand the complaints about progression. I got some pretty badass traits leveling up, in addition to finding plenty of gear upgrades (ESPECIALLY when I would go up a grade), and leveling is fast enough that you have time to do plenty of experimentation.
It might be because I enjoy messing around with my build and doing so much experimentation that I don't find it getting stale. Playing on the RP server helps a bunch, too. But I also wanted to see how much it affected me in WvW (and it does - A LOT. 14k damage sniper shots ftw), which served as a big incentive on its own. (It's worth noting, however, that I'm trying specifically to wean myself away from the "skinner box" mindset that makes me chase after a carrot on a stick all the damn time.)
If none of this works for you, and the minute-to-minute gameplay is not engaging enough, then yeah, I'd say the game just isn't going to be your thing. No harm in that, and you likely got your $60 out of it already anyways. Me, I hit 80 awhile ago and still have a lot to do before I reach world completion, and I'm enjoying it. I play this alongside other things, too (mostly PSO2), which helps to keep things fresh.
I must be fortunate, then, considering I have many gripes about the game - dungeon balancing, bugged events out the ass, the "zerg quotient" turning otherwise challenging events into cakewalks, some questionable class balance issues, AWFUL FoV and view distance, unnecessary amounts of CC on higher-level mobs, repair costs in WvW, which itself is definitely a terrible way to make money... but none of these are core gameplay issues, which sounds like the issue for some folks here.
Really, it's not a cop-out to just say "this game is not for me". I've said that about plenty of games (SWTOR, TSW, AoC, even WoW for me) and I have no qualms about just getting up and moving on to something I actually enjoy. No skin off my back!
That aside, I still don't understand the complaints about progression. I got some pretty badass traits leveling up, in addition to finding plenty of gear upgrades (ESPECIALLY when I would go up a grade), and leveling is fast enough that you have time to do plenty of experimentation.
It might be because I enjoy messing around with my build and doing so much experimentation that I don't find it getting stale. Playing on the RP server helps a bunch, too. But I also wanted to see how much it affected me in WvW (and it does - A LOT. 14k damage sniper shots ftw), which served as a big incentive on its own. (It's worth noting, however, that I'm trying specifically to wean myself away from the "skinner box" mindset that makes me chase after a carrot on a stick all the damn time.)
If none of this works for you, and the minute-to-minute gameplay is not engaging enough, then yeah, I'd say the game just isn't going to be your thing. No harm in that, and you likely got your $60 out of it already anyways. Me, I hit 80 awhile ago and still have a lot to do before I reach world completion, and I'm enjoying it. I play this alongside other things, too (mostly PSO2), which helps to keep things fresh.
I must be fortunate, then, considering I have many gripes about the game - dungeon balancing, bugged events out the ass, the "zerg quotient" turning otherwise challenging events into cakewalks, some questionable class balance issues, AWFUL FoV and view distance, unnecessary amounts of CC on higher-level mobs, repair costs in WvW, which itself is definitely a terrible way to make money... but none of these are core gameplay issues, which sounds like the issue for some folks here.
Really, it's not a cop-out to just say "this game is not for me". I've said that about plenty of games (SWTOR, TSW, AoC, even WoW for me) and I have no qualms about just getting up and moving on to something I actually enjoy. No skin off my back!
flyinpiranha
Member
You are absolutely batshit insane and hell bent on just shitting on the game.
Here is the EXACT post that was posted in response to your music post:
Read the very first line. Go ahead, I'll wait. You criticized the music and somebody offered an option because he understood not all music caters to everyone.
First of all. Read above, nobody jumped and then he went into some crazy ass rant that it takes 10 hours with pop music to make a soundtrack that will detract from his already terrible time with the game.
Second of all, it isn't "you guys". Everybody in here is a single person who has an opinion. Some people disagree with his, what's the problem with that?
PenguinPoacher
Member
What he is doing isn't discussing the game. I'm sorry though I thought the OT was for maybe discussing different stuff to do in game or actually talking about builds/classes. According to you though its just people arguing back and forth. Carry on!
And I also explained why it's a poor substitute.
Did you see that large post of arguments I made? Did you also notice people cherry picking what they could defend?
The problem isn't disagreeing with him. I disagree with him. But, again, I'm not jumpin on him with ad hominem attacks and claiming he's not entitled to the right to state his opinions.
He stated his opinions, hoping that others would disagree or agree with him cordially in a discussion.
Instead, what he got was this:
If you can't see what's wrong with that, then I don't know what to tell you.
Hmm...I had a lot of fun being a Greatsword Guardian and the utilities aren't too terrible; stability is awesome at later levels.
Engineer was kind of boring to me. Don't know why. Maybe it was too much pressing 1 with grenade kit or having too high expectations for the flamethrower.
If I had to guess, play Guardian if you want to be a CC/boon machine at high levels and play Engineer if you want a varied and adaptable play style.
flyinpiranha
Member
Poor substitute for something YOU don't like. I like the music. Leave it. I saw your large post of arguments and I've seen many people disagreeing with all aspects from visuals, music, to gear ... where is the cherry picking?
I can't refute everything you typed because I'm not high level and I haven't experienced this terrible, abysmal, horrible sounding, tread of un-fun that you seem compelled to keep playing.
I'm enjoying the game, as are MANY others but for some reason anytime that is brought up as a reason to look past some of the more idiotic design decisions it isn't acceptable.
Basically you can shit on the game all you want (it's an opinion) but if somebody disagrees and defends the game they enjoy (an opinion) it's fanboy drivel? What kind of logic is that? All this thread is, is people arguing opinions but when they're positive it's "MMO OT people logic lulz" or "Fanboy alertz"
That's not even remotely everybody, it's been mostly logical discussion. If you think every alternate opinion that isn't Sethos Ethos is "attacking him" then I'm not sure what to tell you either.
Gear: People have stated crafting and that they don't see what he's mentioning
Music: Others like it and posted how to get around it if you need so
Leveling: Others like it and it's varied
Art: He's pretty much alone on this that I can see as most enjoy the visual look of the game
Read the thread after he posted his info. Nobody attacked, they may have disagreed but you're seeing something I don't. In fact going back to see if I missed anything most people agree with him but the good outweighs the bad.
It seems there are a few here who just can't accept that people enjoy the game and are creating this false sense of martyrdom for people so 'brave' to stand up against the positive tyranny of "That MMO OT crowd" ... lol
Good for you. Not everyone feels the same way, though, and they're free to continue posting wherever they want to.
I'm not saying it's everybody either. I'm just calling out those who are.
I only disagree (I think) with the initial "oh yeah, like I'd want to play rock and pop music" aspect of the soundtrack discussion. Seems a bit disingenuous. I doubt anymore meant to suggest one should play rock or pop music in place of what's there. What a better way to ridicule a feature than by laughing it off via a, frankly, absurd use of the feature. The following clarification about the potential tedium of getting a custom soundtrack to feel right in place of a lacking standard soundtrack seems like it could have been the initial response.
In all honesty, no matter what build, I think Null Field, Decoy, and Blink are absolute musts for the utility slots in PvP.
As far as the Shatter burst build, it's more about focusing on the Power + Precision traitlines, with the remaining 10-20 points divided to either Toughness/Vit or getting more Mind Wrack damage, plus reduced shatter recharge time, in the Illusion tree. The key talent in this build is as you say, Deceptive Evasion to pop out a clone each time you dodge. Combine that with Precision's 1s Vigor each time you crit, and the Vitality trait that gives you 5s of Vigor to all allies when you shatter illusions, and you'll have no problem generating clones for shatter skills, even without using Staff or Mirror Images.
Well, he said the game was 'awful'. When you think something is awful, one assumes you dont touch it and move on. You dont get to max level, you dont play it much at all.
You also dont get offended by people having criticisms of your criticisms. Thats the whole point eh? its not the sermon on the mount, its opinions v opinions.
Its also cute cause he is the one getting very defensive about his opinions. Yet somehow its 'the herd' or whatever you call it, that is 'the problem'. Part of being critical, is being able to take criticism.
You also dont get offended by people having criticisms of your criticisms. Thats the whole point eh? its not the sermon on the mount, its opinions v opinions.
Its also cute cause he is the one getting very defensive about his opinions. Yet somehow its 'the herd' or whatever you call it, that is 'the problem'. Part of being critical, is being able to take criticism.
Yeah, it seems that the hardcore wow crowd already got bored of the game and are having fun in this thread until Mists of Pandaria comes out.
I am also having fun with the slow profession, I'm playing with my gf. Our goal is to get to level 80 and some exotics to go about wvw.
Well, for me, at a certain point with a character you come to realize from that point on until 80, you will be doing the same type of heart quests, probably the same kind of DE's, fighting enemies with the same 3-4 skills, and crafting marginal upgrades. Traits are great when you have them all, but while lvl'ing up they are only small bonuses.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Ya, I mentioned this a few times but nobody cares.
Is actual game discussion now only happening in the GAFGuild forums then? Can we please stop this nonsensical crap?
Wait, lemme start a better topic. Asura are best race. Discuss.
I'm not completely convinced with regard to this "your first MMO will always be the best" statement. After all, it was my third mmo (WoW) that I loved most, after my first (CoH) and second (FFXI).
Hari Seldon
Member
I'm playing a thief, I have no idea how I should be allocating my talent points. Just putting them all into the crit tree thing. Talent trees could use a little work as it just seems like a generic stat booster thing. Also, when do I get a real permanent stealth?
It's because these games require a great investment of time. People get too attached.
And that's perfectly reasonable, mind you.
obv
Now it sounds like you are getting worked up. You have got to be joking me, if you honestly believe a complaint aimed towards a game can be defended with that fact that, 'you can just do it yourself'. Apparently I'm crazy for wanting some nice sounding music that compliments the zones and areas made by the developers because I, you know, paid for the game. Apparently I need to search high and low for what will probably be days to find music befitting on each area and something that stands out - Dropping my techno / rock / pop into an area will probably yield the exact same problem I'm complaining about: Music not fitting the zones, doesn't feel immersive. I don't want 'my' music blurting through a game if I want to immerse myself.
Yes it's a great OPTION but you simply cannot use it as a shield to defend the game's music.
I paid for a product, I expect certain things and if they aren't up to standard I'll point it out - Simple as.
However you just take everything to your heart apparently, you must feel a very strong bond to this game as you seem to get very touchy. I stopped playing the game, now I'm just airing a lot of criticism ... In the OT ... a thread specifically made for the game. If it bothers you that much just put me on ignore or stop looking at my posts. You are more than welcome to reply but that hissy fit bandwagon attitude is just a bit too much.
Enjoy your game, please. However when people start to counter-address my arguments in that odd attitude of "Oh he just doesn't understand" and make counter-arguments that I simply don't agree with. Also posts where they call your criticism dumb because they simply don't agree ... Oh.
However when people start using the most crazy ass arguments to defend certain points, then it just becomes a bit of a joke.
Sorry, but female norn are best chars.
:edit: Haven't been able to make an asura whose face didn't look busted :/. But then again I thought the same regarding sylvari and someone posted a nice screenshot of a very cool looking one, so...
Zyrusticae
Banned
Huh.
That's weird, because I've never had this problem. There's enough variety in every zone that I rarely (can't say never - obviously there's some repetition in there) felt like I was retreading the same content again. Some of the hearts and DEs are really clever, too, which helped to spur me on.
Also, "3-4 skills" seems entirely disingenuous... unless you're playing some kind of borked class where there are only 3-4 useful skills in the whole lot. I frequently switch between hammer and GS on my warrior, and I use everything I have. Perhaps a class switch is in order?
Well, this is a foregone conclusion.
All will serve the Asura in good time.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Damn this game is shockingly dull, progression feels like i'm pulling teeth.
How do you feel about not having a secondary ranged weapon? I'm using GS/rifle, and I'm not sure I could live without having a rifle on me all the time.
flyinpiranha
Member
I guess we'll just agree to disagree. It's probably one of those situations where I picture you frothing at the mouth hating it and you picture me in my GW2 cosplay defending while in reality we're both level headed and you're chillin' at home while I'm at work right now ...
What I would like to know if it's worth it to spend Karma pre-30ish on items and such. I will probably be a slow leveler but I keep hoarding Karma not knowing how much the Karma train will flow later on.
What I would like to know if it's worth it to spend Karma pre-30ish on items and such. I will probably be a slow leveler but I keep hoarding Karma not knowing how much the Karma train will flow later on.
I say go for it, I hear it's pretty easy to earn Karma later on.
flyinpiranha
Member
Cool. I'm so much of a hoarder based on past MMO's where every little dime/point/token was needed so it's tough to break that mindset with this one.
Hopefully the new PC build tonight goes smooth and I'll be playing again shortly! Too long of a break IMO.
You and me both.
Here's a good rundown: PVE centric players will find GW2 ultimately a shallow experience perhaps worth the cost of buying upfront but with no real longevity. PVP afficionados may find the game more appealing in the long-term because they play games for completely different reasons.
I enjoyed the presentation and exploration of the game, but found the leveling pace way too fast (wish I could have turned off crafting xp) and the dungeons lacked a strong mechanical teamwork structure to make them appealing on a strategic level. As a pve player that does coop with a friend the game just has no longevity..but I don't hate it for that. The actual world zones were very well designed but the games pace really minimized how much time I got to spend in them at the appropriate level.
The reason for the antagonistic aspects of discussion in mmo threads is that mmos rely on player base levels to function well. If there's a strong sentiment of negativity it has a chance to hurt the longterm prospects of a game some people are attached to.
Id say the games community/devs over hyped the quality of their pve content and design depth to draw a broader player base. Financially this helped them but eventually pvp is the mode that will retain players.
TLDR: Decent pvp game, fun but shallow pve game. People get angry cus mmos are serious business.
I enjoyed the presentation and exploration of the game, but found the leveling pace way too fast (wish I could have turned off crafting xp) and the dungeons lacked a strong mechanical teamwork structure to make them appealing on a strategic level. As a pve player that does coop with a friend the game just has no longevity..but I don't hate it for that. The actual world zones were very well designed but the games pace really minimized how much time I got to spend in them at the appropriate level.
The reason for the antagonistic aspects of discussion in mmo threads is that mmos rely on player base levels to function well. If there's a strong sentiment of negativity it has a chance to hurt the longterm prospects of a game some people are attached to.
Id say the games community/devs over hyped the quality of their pve content and design depth to draw a broader player base. Financially this helped them but eventually pvp is the mode that will retain players.
TLDR: Decent pvp game, fun but shallow pve game. People get angry cus mmos are serious business.
You get about 350 karma per event on Orr. You need 42k karma per piece of exotic gear.
^I think the game is alright as a purely PvE player. I do wish they made the dungeon grind for armor less steep; I just want to fill out my virtual wardrobe.
PenguinPoacher
Member
From what I have read, crafted gear is so cheap on TP right now that saving your Karma until your 80 is the best option. I believe the legendary weapon requires like 250k karma.
I believe I spent some on getting my Ranger to 80 and didn't have enough for 1 of the Orr pieces. On my Elementalist I am leveling now I am gonna save it all and just check the TP every 5 levels.
500k+
We have tons of active members in the Overflow guild who can't get into GAFGuild proper because we hit the 500 account limit. A decision was made to remove people below a certain number of achievement points (200, which you can practically get in your sleep) to weed out the inactives. My 60 year old father who can only play on the weekends is over 400, so there's really no excuse for being that low except you're inactive.
We made an announcement about it, but one of the officers jumped the gun because he was sick of seeing good people languish in the Overflow. However, the plan was always to kick everyone below that threshold and then invite them back when they asked. At no point was this "Kick everyone who isn't awesome" or some 'elitist' crap like that; it's simply the only metric we have since they don't track last login (yet).
If you're an active player, you're in the game enough to know you were kicked out and get an invite back; if you're inactive, you'd never notice. This was always our strategy.
As for people 'boycotting' the thread, the OT simply moves too quickly and derails far too often for us to constantly monitor it for little snippets of guild-related questions or info. We would like to actually play the game, rather then sort through the thread looking for anyone asking questions. We created a great OT to do that for us, and lead people to more info for a reason, so we wouldn't have to constantly hang out in the thread all day. A lot of us put a lot of work into it (especially getting it under GAF's insanely low character limit) and it was not a solo effort. That's why we're all kind of pissed it was flippantly negated.
We have the GAFGuild site for a reason; to help GAFers who are playing the game, have one easily sorted place to answer questions and to give us some measure of control over trolling / bullshit that we don't have here to prevent drama.
If you're playing GW2 and you're part of GAFGuild, you should be on GAFGuild.com already.
We've only had one bit of drama and zero politics. We kicked a member because we were constantly getting whispers from other members that he was dropping into their mumble conversations and just generally being obnoxious. He was approached several times by other officers (I myself was not involved) and continued with the behavior. A decision was made to boot him from the guild and ban him from Mumble. He felt he wasn't given adequate warning and while we disagree and the ban remains in place, we discussed it last week and we're going to try and make sure people are being treated fairly.
The people running GAFGuild do talk to each other; we have an officer section on the forum and we have weekly meetings in Mumble just to discuss stuff that's been going on.
A month after release the OT is moved to the community section and becomes the de-facto community thread, so there wouldn't really be a point to a community thread just for the guild. Rather than crowd up the OT with guild business and the more focused discussions, we decided to have a community site where we can create event calenders (that members can RSVP to), post questions in more easily sorted forums (we have discussion threads for every profession) and foster an active community.
On top of that, there are lots of Non-GAFers who want to play; people waiting to be approved who lurk, friends and family of members, old guildmates. At no point did we ever say "You must have a GAF account to get into the GAFGuild." We try to give priority to GAFers when possible (for example, when we reached 500 members my wife opted out so a more regular GAFer could get in).
And honestly, the OTs for MMOs are always a clusterfuck and people asking questions are usually drowned out by bullshit (thus, the "I am not posting here any more, but if you're actually playing the game and not just trolling, here's my info" posts).
Make sure you're checking Karma vendors, as a lot of them in an area will sell a matching armor 'set' that meshes aesthetically. For example, my wife grabbed this from Kessex Hills (and one vendor in Gandaran Fields);
- Status