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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks

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D

Deitus

Member
birdchili said:
yeah... it was the monthly i was talking about...

i'm not sure how you're playing, but i was nowhere near 100k karma at 60. i assume you're doing all the achievements all the time for that level karma?. i've spent some, and "order of magnitude" is an exaggeration, but i certainly haven't earned anywhere near that much karma all game so-far (basically just exploring and "playing the game" at my own speed).

getting karma in the amounts you need for endgame purchases seems to favor the "check every box"-style of gameplay, that's all.
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Up until 2 weeks ago, Achievements gave 0 karma, so that certainly isn't where I got my karma. I've pretty much just been playing how I feel like, exploring the world, clearing out zones, and doing story quests along the way. Can't say I've done anything that gives tons of karma, I've barely done any dungeons, and I've done zero grinding.

It is important to note that before they rewarded karma for daily/monthly achievements, the only way to get lots of karma was to grind. So it was already set up to reward one specific playstyle. Now that you can get karma from achievements, you can get it without mindless grinding. It does take a little bit of checklisting to get done, but it's generally fairly easy to accomplish.
 
W

Winnie the Pimp

Member
Thanasis Deitus said:
Up until 2 weeks ago, Achievements gave 0 karma, so that certainly isn't it. I've pretty much just been playing how I feel like, exploring the world, clearing out zones, and doing story quests along the way. Can't say I've done anything that gives tons of karma, I've barely done any dungeons, and I've done zero grinding.

It is important to note that before they rewarded karma for daily/monthly achievements, the only way to get lots of karma was to grind. So it was already set up to reward one specific playstyle. Now that you can get karma from achievements, you can get it without mindless grinding. It does take a little bit of checklisting to get done, but it's generally fairly easy to accomplish.
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This is true, i found that when i play as i normally would for like 1-2 hours i already ALMOST got my daily achievements done, sure it then takes maybe a little detour here for another event there that i wouldn't have done otherwise but yeah, entirely doable without too much of a hassle
 
A

arimanius

Member
Moondrop said:
Yes, step 3 is the problem. You can't burn your dodges preemptively unless you know when or from where the thief is going to strike.

As a warrior, I can raise my shield after the thief starts his chain. As a ranger, I'm learning to use my traps to signal the thief's movements. This provides time and position information I can use to dodge appropriately.

I don't know engineer, but I would try some type of ranger-like strategy combined with fleeing.
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Thanks. Next time I'll save my dodge for after I get stunned. Maybe toss a freeze or poison grenade before hand.
 
oktarb

oktarb

Member
Been hitting a better stride recently. Got up to level 57 with my Elementalist and level 34 with my Warrior. Decided to try out an Engineer and got to level 25.

Seems to me that the Engineer is a button crazy class. Seems like I push a billion more buttons than my Elementalist or Warrior. Offers great flexibility is play style or vibe but man I get button overload. On the reverse side my Warrior is super easy and get get a tad boring. The Elementalist falls in between these two.

Crafting can be an insane way to level if you have the money for mats.
 
B

birdchili

Member
Boss Doggie said:
Karma jugs are one of the best additions in the game. Also gives an incentive to do monthly.
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the karma rewards for doing the checklist stuff should be *less* than the rewards for actually running quests. something "extra" for those who want to maximize everything.

having a single achievement that gives more of the most important currency in the game than a normal player has accumulated through a huge amount of normal play is frustrating and discourages me from playing how i want: spoiler-free, and in a more immersive mode (it drives me a bit nuts that my avatar insists on making stupid comments every time i get an achievement - yuck).

"i knew i'd achieve this"... yes i know... you just harvested onions. good for you.
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
arimanius said:
Thanks. Next time I'll save my dodge for after I get stunned. Maybe toss a freeze or poison grenade before hand.
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Just gotta mention again, as a thief with a heart of gold, if you have anything that can set us on fire it might help out quite a bit. Our basic heal stealths us and removes burning so it's a single undo, but if you can burn again following that, well, in my case I tend to just panic and run away. I hate fire.
birdchili said:
the karma rewards for doing the checklist stuff should be *less* than the rewards for actually running quests. something "extra" for those who want to maximize everything.

having a single achievement that gives more of the most important currency in the game than a normal player has accumulated through a huge amount of normal play is frustrating and discourages me from playing how i want: spoiler-free, and in a more immersive mode (it drives me a bit nuts that my avatar insists on making stupid comments every time i get an achievement - yuck).

"i knew i'd achieve this"... yes i know... you just harvested onions. good for you.
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Forgive me but I'm gonna have to go ahead and say this is nonsense :-/
1) When the jugs/dungeon rewards were added, nothing was removed, nor were any rewards changed. More ways to get karma were just provided.
2) Saying the rewards for doing the checklist stuff "should be less than the rewards for actually running quests" doesn't really mean anything at all. At present, the reward is more than you get for doing 5 high-level events; it's less than you get for doing 13 high-level events. But it's pretty moot because you get the karma for doing the events too, and in fact can clear out almost all of the dailies while doing them.
2) A "single achievement that gives you more than a normal player has accumulated through a huge amount of normal play" is a pretty odd complaint since you don't lose out on the karma you made through the "normal" play. You just get more karma, or you don't if you don't want to do your dailies.
3) What do you mean by "spoiler-free," and how are daily achievements spoilers?
4) They did a good job of making the things in the daily achievement things that you are very likely to do during a typical play session anyway. The current daily set is kill, kill variety, gathering, and doing events. It's beyond me how you could possibly avoid hearing your character make the achievement voice exclamations just because karma wasn't given to you as an ultimate reward. I will say gladly that the voice comments should just be able to be turned off altogether, that has nothing to do with karma.
5) Karma isn't the most important currency in the game. Karma isn't close to the most important currency in the game. That would be gold by a massive margin, or potentially gems, since you can buy gem store items or gold with them. What you can get with karma is useful, beneficial, in some cases aesthetic, and very, very limited.
 
A

arimanius

Member
Hawkian said:
Just gotta mention again, as a thief with a heart of gold, if you have anything that can set us on fire it might help out quite a bit. Our basic heal stealths us and removes burning so it's a single undo, but if you can burn again following that, well, in my case I tend to just panic and run away. I hate fire.
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hmm, I'd have to equip the flamethrower kit for that and besides keep defense I don't know how well that works. Heard mostly bad things about the flamethrower.
 
B

birdchili

Member
Hawkian said:
2) Saying the rewards for doing the checklist stuff "should be less than the rewards for actually running quests" doesn't really mean anything at all. At present, the reward is more than you get for doing 5 high-level events; it's less than you get for doing 13 high-level events. But it's pretty moot because you get the karma for doing the events too, and in fact can clear out almost all of the dailies while doing them.
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it's a game-design complaint. i don't think that getting 45,000 karma for doing a monthy "achievement" is in-proportion with the other ways that the game doles out karma, that's all. it encourages exactly the kind of "play a certain way" gameplay that anet railed against when they discussed the design of this game.

Hawkian said:
3) What do you mean by "spoiler-free," and how are daily achievements spoilers?
4) They did a good job of making the things in the daily achievement things that you are very likely to do during a typical play session anyway. The current daily set is kill, kill variety, gathering, and doing events. It's beyond me how you could possibly avoid hearing your character make the achievement voice exclamations just because karma wasn't given to you as an ultimate reward. I will say gladly that the voice comments should just be able to be turned off altogether, that has nothing to do with karma.
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it's more this specific monthly that granted such a huge karma boost. i'm not getting monthlies since the way i've been playing makes it impossible that i'll ever get a monthly.

Hawkian said:
5) Karma isn't the most important currency in the game. Karma isn't close to the most important currency in the game. That would be gold by a massive margin, or potentially gems, since you can buy gem store items or gold with them. What you can get with karma is useful, beneficial, in some cases aesthetic, and very, very limited.
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fair enough. karma feels like the rpg currency. gold feels like gems/real money.
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
lmao, does someone actually say "I am the master of life" on achievement get?

birdchili said:
it's a game-design complaint. i don't think that getting 45,000 karma for doing a monthy "achievement" is in-proportion with the other ways that the game doles out karma, that's all. it encourages exactly the kind of "play a certain way" gameplay that anet railed against when they discussed the design of this game.
Click to expand...
Here's where I think we're diverging. You're looking at it as though to achieve the daily or monthly you stop whatever you're doing- things you enjoy- and go do completely separate things you don't enjoy for the sake of the achievement. However, ArenaNet's approaching the rewards for daily/monthly achievements with three things in mind: rewarding you for doing things you're already doing anyway, encouraging you to do things you might not have tried, and providing you more ways to get rewards.

I'm curious as to what the "certain way to play" the achievements require is. As far as the dailies, if you're not killing things, killing a variety of things, gathering, and doing events, you're limiting yourself to an already very narrow slice of what the game has to offer. With regard to the monthlies, if you never wanted to step foot for a single minute into WvW, then yes, you wouldn't be able to get them done, but it's quite a token amount of time asked of you to get that aspect complete, and the other requirements seem to rotate to encourage a variety of activities for all players, as well as encouraging participation in time-limited in-game events. This month, you have to do dungeons for your monthly- an achievement I filled in without even realizing it, because that's how I play on a nightly basis anyway.

The most crucial aspect of all this to remember is that none of the achievements, nor a single point of karma whatsoever, is required to play and enjoy the game. I think there may be a misinterpretation taking place, and it's one I've seen before, that "play however you like" translates to "no matter how you play, you will be equally rewarded." So you can't get jugs of karma without doing the daily/monthly achievements, but you also can't get Shards of Zhaitan without doing the Arah dungeon explorable mode. You can't get your Pact unique weapon without completely the Personal Story. You can't obtain a legendary without putting the enormous amount of time, gold, karma, and effort required into the mystic forge to make one.

Whichever of these things you choose to do is "playing however you want." In this particular case, the dailies and monthlies aren't actually even the only ways to obtain karma, which again isn't even required. You can also do dungeons (added in the same update as the jugs) or grind events for it, which previously was the only option available at all.

I hope this clarifies a little- it's certainly a matter of perspective, but I can't for the life of mine understand how offering additional rewards for the dailies/monthlies is encouraging one particular type of playstyle or another.
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Pro-tip: Stockpile jugs in your bank until one of your characters needs something with karma. Pop a Karma Boost with that character and eat 'em all.
 
B

birdchili

Member
Hawkian said:
With regard to the monthlies, if you never wanted to step foot for a single minute into WvW, then yes, you wouldn't be able to get them done, but it's quite a token amount of time asked of you to get that aspect complete, and the other requirements seem to rotate to encourage a variety of activities for all players, as well as encouraging participation in time-limited in-game events. This month, you have to do dungeons for your monthly- an achievement I filled in without even realizing it, because that's how I play on a nightly basis anyway.
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the way you play is good for getting karma then:)

the way i have been playing (no wvw or dungeons yet) is *really crappy* for getting karma. with "a token amount of time" doing stuff i don't normally do, i'd have several times the amount of karma that i have already.

that makes it sound to me like karma is *best* earned by ensuring you do your monthlies. by far.

this is ok, of course... but it make karma-getting very-much an achievements thing rather than an immerse-yourself-in-anet's-world thing.

Hawkian said:
The most crucial aspect of all this to remember is that none of the achievements, nor a single point of karma whatsoever, is required to play and enjoy the game.
Click to expand...

oh. i know that:) i'm level 63. i hated every second of my bloodthirsty, murderous, meandering rampage through the countryside:)
 
R

rohlfinator

Member
birdchili said:
that makes it sound to me like karma is *best* earned by ensuring you do your monthlies. by far.

this is ok, of course... but it make karma-getting very-much an achievements thing rather than an immerse-yourself-in-anet's-world thing.
Click to expand...

Just doing the daily every day gets you more than the monthly, and the dailies are not difficult or something you have to go out of your way for.

Getting karma used to be a "farm a series of DEs over and over and over" thing, so this is a vast improvement.
 
B

birdchili

Member
rohlfinator said:
Getting karma used to be a "farm a series of DEs over and over and over" thing, so this is a vast improvement.
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yeah maybe... but karma went from this abstracted currency that somehow represented the goodwill of the people for all of your (very brave and heroic) deeds to something that comes in jars for filling in a checklist somewhere in the game interface.

one of the neat things about this game is this huge open world they've created with all this stuff going on all over the place. this kind of rewards system works against immersion.
 
oktarb

oktarb

Member
Hawkian said:
Pro-tip: Stockpile jugs in your bank until one of your characters needs something with karma. Pop a Karma Boost with that character and eat 'em all.
Click to expand...

Someone should spend many hours combing through and gathering Pro-tips and adding them to Page 1. You know someone...not me..someone cooler.
 
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Wallach said:
Male Norn of course. Sometimes he also says "Greatness... I am BECOMING GREATNESS!" even though all you did was shoot a rabbit or something.
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You make me want to start devoting time to my Ranger sooner rather than later
birdchili said:
yeah maybe... but karma went from this abstracted currency that somehow represented the goodwill of the people for all of your (very brave and heroic) deeds to something that comes in jars for filling in a checklist somewhere in the game interface.

one of the neat things about this game is this huge open world they've created with all this stuff going on all over the place. this kind of rewards system works against immersion.
Click to expand...
Now I see what you meant about immersion. The concept of in-game NPCs giving you karma solely for doing specific tasks for them has been abstracted out, definitely, and I mourn its loss as well. I just think it's a worthy sacrifice in exchange for adding more ways to obtain karma to the game.
 
W

Wallach

Member
leng jai said:
What we need is more mid-tier shit to spend Karma on.
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Yes, I think the karma sinks that exist below level 80 are a pretty big failing of the itemization in the game. There needs to be way more unique skins associated with karma that roll out right from the starter zones. Most players are trained from the early game to just ignore heart-based karma vendors because the skins were as plain as dropped gear and they carried the same stats, and it leads people to miss the unique skins that are sparsely spread through some of the later zones.

There also needs to be a lot more stuff to buy with karma at 80, though. It was a very well normalized currency back when there wasn't anything to spend it on. Now it falls from the sky, making me wonder how they'll ever get to introducing things of proper worth now that level capped players have hundreds of thousands of it piling up.
 
L

Lone_Prodigy

Member
As one of those RPG players who hoards his money/karma until endgame, mid-level karma items mean nothing to me. Drops are as good or better than anything I purchase, so why spend for it?
 
L

leng jai

Member
Wallach said:
Yes, I think the karma sinks that exist below level 80 are a pretty big failing of the itemization in the game. There needs to be way more unique skins associated with karma that roll out right from the starter zones. Most players are trained from the early game to just ignore heart-based karma vendors because the skins were as plain as dropped gear and they carried the same stats, and it leads people to miss the unique skins that are sparsely spread through some of the later zones.

There also needs to be a lot more stuff to buy with karma at 80, though. It was a very well normalized currency back when there wasn't anything to spend it on. Now it falls from the sky, making me wonder how they'll ever get to introducing things of proper worth now that level capped players have hundreds of thousands of it piling up.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I've got 200k karma and 25 jugs with nothing to spend it on. The fact there is one level 80 karma set from the vendors is a joke especially considering it's not even good.
 
R

Retro

Member
Lost Shores Event Schedule:
Something is stirring in the Sea of Sorrows – and we want to make sure that you are not missing out, so here is a schedule (without spoilers) for you, so you can plan ahead:

On Friday November 16th at noon PST (20:00 GMT / 3PM EST) the weekend will kick off with an Event in Lion’s Arch that you don’t want to miss. This will trigger events in other parts of Tyria as well.

On Saturday November 17th at noon PST (20:00 GMT / 3PM EST), another phase will kick in.

Each phase is triggered by a special event, but you will be able to enjoy additional content afterwards even if you cannot make the kick-off time. There is one exception:

The event will culminate in a big Finale on Sunday November 18, make sure you will not miss it. This will be a onetime only event chain that will run multiple hours, and it will kick off at noon PST (20:00 GMT). Again, this will only run once, so make sure you will be there! There will be plenty of content available to enjoy that will remain permanently in the world as a result of the outcome of this event on Sunday.

We will give you more details once we get closer to the event, but wanted to give you an early heads up so you can plan accordingly.(source)
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BrettWeir

BrettWeir

Member
leng jai said:
Exactly. I've got 200k karma and 25 jugs with nothing to spend it on. The fact there is one level 80 karma set from the vendors is a joke especially considering it's not even good.
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Just hold onto it. Guild Wars is one of those games where you need to look to the future. ANet will add more things...it's just a matter of when. I'm sitting at 780k karma, 11 jugs, and no way am I thinking about a Legendary. The requirements for them are definitely a "long haul" achievement for me.

The same thing that goes for karma goes for other things in game as well. I'm almost at 1000 Badges of Honor. I'm just saving them because the WvW medium armor all looks like total trash to me. They are bound to add more rewards down the road. May as well stock up!
 
R

Retro

Member
Lulubop said:
Uh, I got kicked from the Guild. Not sure if it's a bug.
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You may have gotten removed during the last culling. It's nothing personal, we just try to clear out the inactives to make room for the more active players waiting in GAF-Overflow. Our logic has always been "If you're playing, you'll notice you were kicked, and if you're not playing why would you care?".

Whisper any of the officers for an invite; Ferny, Hawkian The Blade, Gojira, Ashodin Venteal, Professor Retro, or Nephenee Reginleif.
 
L

Lulubop

Member
I'm on all the time though, usually running dungeons with gafers.

I'll pm someone though.

Edit: Went into a different zone, and now I'm back in. Weird.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Lulubop said:
Uh, I got kicked from the Guild. Not sure if it's a bug.
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People in Lion's Arch were reporting earlier that they were being removed from guilds or the guild screen was empty. I imagine they introduced a bug in the patch from a few hours ago, or it has something to do with the current ongoing maintenance.
 
M

Morokh

Member
Lone_Prodigy said:
As one of those RPG players who hoards his money/karma until endgame, mid-level karma items mean nothing to me. Drops are as good or better than anything I purchase, so why spend for it?
Click to expand...

Part of the lvl 80 gearing in this game is how your toon looks and with transmutation you can get a level 2 piece of gear and make it a top of the line lvl 80 piece of gear and some of the mid level armors have a unique look to them, so it wouldn't be a waste to buy one, and stash it when it outlived it's usefulness.

It would at least add some additional variety, which wouldn't hurt, cause if you stick with looted items, you usually look kind of the same all the way through lvl 80.
 
E

etiolate

Banned
Yeah there's some bug with guilds right now. It still shows fellow GAFfers in Gold text for me, but my guild page is empty.
 
W

Winnie the Pimp

Member
Morokh said:
Part of the lvl 80 gearing in this game is how your toon looks and with transmutation you can get a level 2 piece of gear and make it a top of the line lvl 80 piece of gear and some of the mid level armors have a unique look to them, so it wouldn't be a waste to buy one, and stash it when it outlived it's usefulness.

It would at least add some additional variety, which wouldn't hurt, cause if you stick with looted items, you usually look kind of the same all the way through lvl 80.
Click to expand...

What about items that you buy from regular heart/karma vendors then? Are those at least a LITTLE unique looking or is it only the REALLY expensive stuff that gives a different look?
 
M

Morokh

Member
Winnie the Pimp said:
What about items that you buy from regular heart/karma vendors then? Are those at least a LITTLE unique looking or is it only the REALLY expensive stuff that gives a different look?
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There are some yes (more weapons than armor pieces it seems) and more are always welcome.

You have something like 4-5 unique looking karma sets for each armor category while leveling, some are re-used for early 80 gear, some are unique.
 
nicoga3000

nicoga3000

Saint Nic
I've decided that I really enjoy running dungeons. It's a LOT of fun when you have a group that understands the idea of group play. When you have people running solo builds and treating EVERY encounter like a tank and spank...Not so much.
 
S

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
The boss from Sorrow's Embrace story-mode might be the most fun MMO boss I have ever encountered because it's the only one that doesn't play like an MMO boss.
 
L

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
IPoopStandingUp said:
Children on the east coast and the unemployed.
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Unless children can run home, start their computers, and log on within 10 minutes, they kinda miss out too. It's really like the unemployed and 4 year olds here. I suppose Europeans can get on at what, 9-10pm-ish? What about Asia and most of the Americas?
 
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