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Guild Wars 2 |OT3| Two Week Updates, One Box, Zero Subscriptions
- Thread starter Retro
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Complistic
Member
I appeared to have ruffled the hawks feathers 
I can see both sides of the "temporary value " argument now.
I can see both sides of the "temporary value " argument now.
Not to go completely off the rails, but it's a Textural issue. I'll drink fruit juice, and like fruit-flavored things, but the actual fruit itself is repulsive to me, even the smell of raw fruit kind of makes me gag. In the same way, tomato sauce, soup and ketchup are perfectly fine, but raw tomato (or very large chunks of it) are a no-no for me.
Likewise, I like some kinds of meat; bacon (well done, any bit of white or pink is bad, I'd rather it be black than pink), small bits of chicken, fish... but the texture of red meat is a complete turn off.
I was a picky eater as a kid; I've gotten only slightly better as an adult. Believe me, I know how weird it is, I've been hearing it all my life.
Kos Luftar
Member
Arken needs to post that Quggan Cake. It looks delicious.
I'm not quite sure I know who the post is addressing, so I'm not quite sure if I should respond or not. But I will because I am vain and love to ramblepost, I guess.
Honestly, I've rarely been critical of temporary content itself. It's really that I'm just curious about anet's definition of temporary/permanent content and how it clashes with the rabid internet definition. My rambleposts are more thought thrown out rather than pointed criticism.
I don't mind what they do, as long as they make it good. When an update is sloppy or feels incomplete, it gives me less and less faith in the quality of the next update. There are ups and downs, and I know that comes from the fact that there are different teams working on it, but I will say that one drawback (for anet) of putting out bi-weekly content is that one bad update really can turn off players for good, even with the knowledge that there's another update just around the corner.
The sharpest, most personal criticisms I have are as follows:
1) The story is atrocious. I no longer have faith in them to write a complete, satisfying arc.
2) By focusing on bi-weekly content, I do feel as though they are ignoring existing content. I've been proven wrong with this, but there are times when I feel that certain issues are being completely dropped to put in a new mini-game. The hearts and living world events now seem downright silly next to a lot of the newer content.
3) Personally, the focus on achievements feels like a lazy way of making a player feel accomplished. These are role playing games. The more you put bars in my face, the more I'm taken out of the game.
I think the point that all of these break down to is that sometimes it feels like the game lacks focus. Four teams, different writers, events changing every two weeks. It sometimes feels less like a living world and more like a traveling circus. Part of me still wonders if the living story update schedule was planned from before release. Did they think that the base game they created was enough content to last till an expansion? Their wording about it makes me wonder. That thought, however, is less of a criticism and more of a question of pure curiosity.
My shift towards a desire for an expansion rather than living story actually comes out of a desire for more living story, as odd as that may seem, Part of me feels like the current world isn't really built for it. It's as if there's two games here, and maybe that's the point. As I've constantly said, I've never played MMO's before, so I have no idea how they separate in world content with "end-game" content.
But really, as pointed as these seem, they are really only minor issues in a sea of love that I actually do have for the game. I've never played a game for a year in my life, and I think that really does speak volumes as to how interested and invested I am. Part of that is GAF Guild, but honestly, a lot does come from the game itself. And I do actually like the living story, and I fully understand that if I don't like one update, I can always just wait two weeks and find something new. The fruit analogy is not lost on me. I'm constantly curious about where this goes, and don't mistake my few criticisms with being "fed up" or completely tired of the game, because I'm not. I'm merely curious as to where it's going to go, and curiosity is one part fear that it will not live up to expectations.and two parts excitement that it is becoming something truly unique. (which it is)
Honestly, I've rarely been critical of temporary content itself. It's really that I'm just curious about anet's definition of temporary/permanent content and how it clashes with the rabid internet definition. My rambleposts are more thought thrown out rather than pointed criticism.
I don't mind what they do, as long as they make it good. When an update is sloppy or feels incomplete, it gives me less and less faith in the quality of the next update. There are ups and downs, and I know that comes from the fact that there are different teams working on it, but I will say that one drawback (for anet) of putting out bi-weekly content is that one bad update really can turn off players for good, even with the knowledge that there's another update just around the corner.
The sharpest, most personal criticisms I have are as follows:
1) The story is atrocious. I no longer have faith in them to write a complete, satisfying arc.
2) By focusing on bi-weekly content, I do feel as though they are ignoring existing content. I've been proven wrong with this, but there are times when I feel that certain issues are being completely dropped to put in a new mini-game. The hearts and living world events now seem downright silly next to a lot of the newer content.
3) Personally, the focus on achievements feels like a lazy way of making a player feel accomplished. These are role playing games. The more you put bars in my face, the more I'm taken out of the game.
I think the point that all of these break down to is that sometimes it feels like the game lacks focus. Four teams, different writers, events changing every two weeks. It sometimes feels less like a living world and more like a traveling circus. Part of me still wonders if the living story update schedule was planned from before release. Did they think that the base game they created was enough content to last till an expansion? Their wording about it makes me wonder. That thought, however, is less of a criticism and more of a question of pure curiosity.
My shift towards a desire for an expansion rather than living story actually comes out of a desire for more living story, as odd as that may seem, Part of me feels like the current world isn't really built for it. It's as if there's two games here, and maybe that's the point. As I've constantly said, I've never played MMO's before, so I have no idea how they separate in world content with "end-game" content.
But really, as pointed as these seem, they are really only minor issues in a sea of love that I actually do have for the game. I've never played a game for a year in my life, and I think that really does speak volumes as to how interested and invested I am. Part of that is GAF Guild, but honestly, a lot does come from the game itself. And I do actually like the living story, and I fully understand that if I don't like one update, I can always just wait two weeks and find something new. The fruit analogy is not lost on me. I'm constantly curious about where this goes, and don't mistake my few criticisms with being "fed up" or completely tired of the game, because I'm not. I'm merely curious as to where it's going to go, and curiosity is one part fear that it will not live up to expectations.and two parts excitement that it is becoming something truly unique. (which it is)
More details on SAB:
Also, Dragon Season is tweeting that there will be more ways to get the Mr. Sparkles mini, and to not blow a bunch of money getting them on eBay... we'll see what happens.
Josh Foreman said:
Also, Dragon Season is tweeting that there will be more ways to get the Mr. Sparkles mini, and to not blow a bunch of money getting them on eBay... we'll see what happens.
Aww... only two colors this release. Well, at least I will have time to get more than one of each.
Yeah, Red is World 3, Purple is World 4. All we're getting in this update is World 2 (which we already saw parts of with the Rapids preview in April)... though I would bet on a preview of World 3 too, just without a way to get the red weapons.
Any tips for a SAB noob? I had just started GW2 when the first one hit, so I mostly ignored it in favor of exploring the world. I'd like to snag a couple of the skins.
If we ever were to get an expansion, it'd be a ways off and likely focus on another region with its own issues. Namely Elona and Joko. Apparently dragons ain't shit to the Palawa. But honestly, the quicker ANet shelves the dragons, the happier i am. I want more GW style stuff; politics, Mad gods, etc.
If we ever were to get an expansion, it'd be a ways off and likely focus on another region with its own issues. Namely Elona and Joko. Apparently dragons ain't shit to the Palawa. But honestly, the quicker ANet shelves the dragons, the happier i am. I want more GW style stuff; politics, Mad gods, etc.
Complistic
Member
fear the monkeys
Kos Luftar
Member
Can you guys stop being excited about SAB because I am not excited about it at all and I feel left out.
Hate to be the one to break this to you Kos, but every update from now till the end of time is going to be replacing your skillbar with other skills. NO MORE ENGINEER SKILLS FOR YOU!
Complistic
Member
kos doesn't play anyway. He just likes to tell the kids to get off his lawn.
So that Mini Mr. Sparkles...someone bought one for $1,000 USD:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Mini-Mr-Sparkles-only-in-Germany-Confirmed/
Some dude on reddit has said he's dropped $800 USD on minis and another $800 on other stuff thus far through gems to gold. And yet people still question how ANet could be profitable...
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Mini-Mr-Sparkles-only-in-Germany-Confirmed/
Some dude on reddit has said he's dropped $800 USD on minis and another $800 on other stuff thus far through gems to gold. And yet people still question how ANet could be profitable...
That's nuts and kind of disgusting. It's a virtual mini pet in a video game, jesus christ.
I do fear that in game stores merely prey on... certain types of behaviors, whether intentional or not.
People have dropped thousands on single TF2 hats before. Don't let anyone try to tell you that cosmetics aren't profitable in gaming when people drop 10 years worth of MMO subscriptions in a single transaction.
Oh, I know. Cosmetics are insanely profitable, and I've always found it pretty disgusting. Valve has made it their priority to make this type of money off of all of their games.
But we all buy extraneous things. I guess I can't judge too much.
of course it is intentional. These types of games have been fine tuning techniques to get more out of their customers.
I appeared to have ruffled the hawks feathers
I can see both sides of the "temporary value " argument now.
I should probably have mentioned: while certain phrasing that the two of you have used definitely helped me crystallize my thoughts on this topic, I wasn't personally addressing either of you. Indeed, the sentiment you are describing is something I've heard in plenty of other members of the guild, and throughout the internets.
Boiled down to its most simplistic, I think the concept would read: "I don't really get where this is going; I'm not sure it'll keep holding my interest."
This engenders a debate where the two sides would be "don't worry, it's going to a good place- it'll hold your interest" and "yeah, it's going to a bad place, it won't hold your interest."
But my position would be to reject the premise entirely. Holding your individual interest long-term- especially continuously over the long term- isn't a particularly relevant part of ArenaNet's design methodology, and most important is not tied to NCSoft's overall business strategy.
I think these can be rough concepts to digest. For one, on some level every gamer wants every game they play to be endlessly interesting to them personally. If it's going to evolve over time, we want it to evolve to be more like the game we want it to be and focus less on things we don't care about or dislike. For another, it's a bit of a depressing reality that business sense has to drive content to any degree- but this is a market where it's pretty tough to turn a profit after a year at all, let alone maintain a generally high level of quality at the same time.
I was going to give some examples of the fruit thing as it has already applied in practice with LS releases, but this is already getting long. So I'll just say this: my tip for avoiding present and future frustration would be a slight change in perspective. Rather than wondering whether or not Guild Wars 2 is going to be able to keep holding your interest, you should just expect it not to. I didn't expect GW2 to hold my continuous interest as long as it already has. Rather than attempting to work out some kind of cohesive design strategy that doesn't seem at all clear, focus on whether or not you're enjoying yourself at any given moment of gameplay- and stop playing if the answer comes back no.
And if, say, that incredibly terrible release does come that makes you give up on the game "for good," there's absolutely nothing stopping you from saying screw it one year later and booting the game back up to see how it feels.
Aaaaanyway, to get pragmatic for a minute, Lunar- I think I can probably help with the seemingly opaque definitions of temporary and permanent that ArenaNet bandies about. As they use them:
Temporary: temporary content is limited to the scope of a single release or arc. It will make it clear to the player base that it's not going to be around for long- typically, the "last day available" will be known as soon as the content is announced, or within a few days thereafter. Such content, even if repeatable for enjoyable rewards, is typically "completable" in some concrete sense. When it's gone, it's gone- either temporarily or forever. The Molten Facility, Super Adventure Box, and Queen's Gauntlet are all good examples of temporary content.
And of course, temporary content can become permanent content, a la the MF and AR becoming Fractals, or mini-games joining the daily rotation.
Permanent: permanent content is not tied to the duration of a specific release. It will have no slated "end date" and be accessible in some fashion for the forseeable future. How it's accessed and how often may well vary, but permanent content is always an answer to "what can I do in-game today?" independent of the current LS release. Dungeons, Guild Missions, and Invasions would all be grouped under this definition.
A lot of the confusion stems from the fact that this kind of content is not literally permanent in the geological sense. Eventually, we'll figure out in the storyline how to plug up Scarlet's portals for good. But that's merely one example out of many the dev team have already suggested. Maybe a Guild Bounty will turn double agent in the Living Story and no longer be an available target. Maybe a Fractal will be corrupted and changed into a related but completely different form from that point forward. Colin even alluded to a potential LS event completely blowing up an existing dungeon and something new springing up in its place. And of course, the cannon traps in AC path 2 were once "permanent content," but no luck finding them any longer... though she still has to build the new ones herself.
It might seem like an opaque distinction but from reading their usage of the terms carefully I'm pretty confident in these definitions.
Loving the confidence... I shall see you in the Halls of Tribulation brother
SE1 the path with the golems? We've tried it a few times and considered adding it to the nightly rotation, but we've never had a run go smoothly. Are you suppose to solo-pull the golems somehow?
Hoooooo man you need to run it with us.
Each of those golems has a shiny gear box inside *_* They're the best part.
Reflections and condition cleanses are the most important aspect of that fight. We head into the tunnel to bottleneck them but it's nowhere close to a solo-pull situation. E is the most important to get first, then F, then T.
edit: Just to clarify as to how valuable this path is, SE1 can be easily run in under 15 minutes by a group that knows what it's doing.
Jest Chillin
Member
I'm GOING to get a Green Weapon this time for sure. Yellow.. well Yellow might take some time.
User Name Here
Member
What's the story on magic find conversion?
You'll be able to click on any piece of gear that has MF on it and change it to any other type of gear of your choosing and it then account binds.
Kos Luftar
Member
Why does everyone think that I don't play anymore?
Also, hawk-bot has gone haywire, way too much writing.
I think I would enjoy SAB way more of it was just jumping and I could use my engineer or warrior skills to traverse the zones quicker.
I think the clock tower JP is a million times more fun than SAB.
Also, hawk-bot has gone haywire, way too much writing.
I think I would enjoy SAB way more of it was just jumping and I could use my engineer or warrior skills to traverse the zones quicker.
I think the clock tower JP is a million times more fun than SAB.
Jest Chillin
Member
Retro must've hacked his programming.
Pumpkin King
Member
So... Is COF P3 that bad? It is the last one I need there, the COF P1 party I just was in had no interest. Someone said "good luck." I'm hereby recruiting for COF P3 tomorrow night. That 4k achievement chest is calling my name. Every point counts.
On a side note, I did the gate on P1, kind of forced lol. Wasn't bad, I took too long but no one died, and I had no idea what I was doing. Good times I'm slowly learning as an ele, move my ass. Not moving = not living.
Thanks to everyone who did some dungeons with me tonight.
Edit: Just noticed I was member'd.
On a side note, I did the gate on P1, kind of forced lol. Wasn't bad, I took too long but no one died, and I had no idea what I was doing. Good times
I'm slowly learning as an ele, move my ass. Not moving = not living. Thanks to everyone who did some dungeons with me tonight.
Edit: Just noticed I was member'd.
Pumpkin King
Member
So, you're in?!
CoF 3 has two annoying parts:
1.) Torches at the beginning. This used to be worse when you simultaneously had to light 5 but now it's only 3. Have to do this while dealing with imps and whatnot.
2.) There is a puzzle of sorts where you have to avoid explosions in a tunnel. This leads to a room with some turrets and enemies. This means if one person makes it and 4 die, they cant wp if he gets in combat with them.
3.) The boss takes awhile to kill because he goes invuln a lot.
1.) Torches at the beginning. This used to be worse when you simultaneously had to light 5 but now it's only 3. Have to do this while dealing with imps and whatnot.
2.) There is a puzzle of sorts where you have to avoid explosions in a tunnel. This leads to a room with some turrets and enemies. This means if one person makes it and 4 die, they cant wp if he gets in combat with them.
3.) The boss takes awhile to kill because he goes invuln a lot.
gamergirl85
Member
Thanks for all the dungeon runs had fun tonight
Pumpkin King
Member
Thanks for all the dungeon runs had fun tonight
I'm glad you had some good dungeon runs <3
Thanks for the tips Levyne! And thanks for taking those blossoms down tonight. Also, you listed 3!
Feel free to join in tomorrow night. 2 of the 3 have never run P3.
Robert Hrouda was laid off.
It's sad he's unemployed, but this is fantastic news for Guild Wars 2. Robert was behind most of the terrible boss design in Guild Wars 2. Some examples: The two fractals he worked on were swamp and underwater, and he designed the karka queen fight in the Southsun Cove meta event.
It's sad he's unemployed, but this is fantastic news for Guild Wars 2. Robert was behind most of the terrible boss design in Guild Wars 2. Some examples: The two fractals he worked on were swamp and underwater, and he designed the karka queen fight in the Southsun Cove meta event.
Karka Queen wasn't too bad, but eeeh... .yeah having two of the worst fractals on record doesn't help your case.
Shame he's unemployed now. That situation is never fun.
We discussed Robert's dismissal earlier in the thread. He was a good guy, fun to talk to, and whether you liked the content he worked on or not, it's unfortunate that he's gone. He may have done some of the more unliked content, but he also did a lot of the core dungeons which are quite good.
The good news is, he has a game like Guild Wars 2 on his resume. That should ensure he doesn't stay unemployed for very long.
The good news is, he has a game like Guild Wars 2 on his resume. That should ensure he doesn't stay unemployed for very long.
He also was responsible for the overhaul to AC, which turned it from useless garbage to one of the best dungeons in the game. Looking at the rest of the content, I don't see how this is good news either way. It's not like there's a glut of good designers making PvE content that just need more exposure.
Oddly enough, I enjoyed all of those things. All of Robert's content was obtuse and challenging, but in a good way. He actively worked against stuff like waypoint rushing and button mashing.
Most people in this thread and on reddit really seemed to like him.
It's true he slightly improved later on, but most of his work was awful. The living story teams completely shamed him with their boss design. The Aetherblade and Molten Alliance dungeons were ages ahead of the two worst fractals, karka queen and even Ascalonian Catacombs revamp. Even Scarlet's Playhouse wasn't very impressive since it mostly rehashed old mechanics.
Chances are the people who worked on the good living story dungeons and fractals will now take up Robert's spot as lead dungeon designer. That's great news.
Chances are the people who worked on the good living story dungeons and fractals will now take up Robert's spot as lead dungeon designer. That's great news.
That is odd. Most people agree that the swamp and underwater fractals are the simplest and easiest, and the karka queen got blasted on the forums as a huge disappointment with no real mechanics.
It has bad boss design. The actual dungeon is fine, but both bosses at the end have practically no mechanics outside of a few red circles and giant health pools — the quintessential examples of everything wrong with Guild Wars 2's bosses.
I feel kind of uncomfortable reading these comments that basically say "Yay, someone got fired and has to deal with a major life-changing situation, but this video game I play will theoretically get better." I think it's a little uncouth to be celebrating Robert's dismissal, whether you think it's good or bad for the game overall. Try to remember we have ArenaNet employees who read the thread (and at least one who posts irregularly) and that he's also a part of GAFGuild... just sayin', there's peoples' lives involved with this game.
Swamp is awkward. In the hands of a competent group with good navigational skills it can go really fast. In the hands of most players, it takes forever. Plus as said above, it has poorly designed bosses. :\
If they're successfully working in one area they're not going to be all that hasty to move them out of that environment to work on a different area of the game. This is not as likely to happen as you think.
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