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Guild Wars 2 |OT3| Two Week Updates, One Box, Zero Subscriptions
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Deleted member 10571
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Those SAB tracks are so great. Can't wait for more Super Adventuring.
User Name Here
Member
Welp, see you guys in-game next year lol.
I don't know how things work at ArenaNet, but I'd take Colin's blog post over side questions from a Redditor's fluff piece, even if it is with Mike O'Brien. Colin is the Creative Director, so I would expect him to be much more hands-on with the game than the Head of the Company.
Even if new skills are off, there's still the potential for new traits. And don't forget that the skills we have now are still functional when the context changes; new content means new ways to fight.
I still stand by my original launch statement; having your skills locked and tied to weapons allows you to commit them to memory and then instinctively use them. For example, the Twisted Minions have a sort of healer / debuffer / support / tank thing going on with Menders, Horrors, Reavers and Nightmares, respectively. There's a very specific way you approach those fights unless you're in a zerg, and knowing what skills you have lets you focus on what all of those enemy types are doing.
It's very hard to track, but the next time you guys play, try to actually pay attention to how quickly you hit the buttons without having to really think about them. At a certain point, you just... do it, without really having to think that "3" is "Skill A"
Except it IS negligible, since it's ONLY weapons at the moment. I could see your argument being more valid if it was Armor along with it.
It makes more sense for ArenaNet to do a power creep slowly to the max again, rather than dump everything all at once. We all get a chance to get there.
If I wasn't on the completely opposite coast, I totally would. It's first-come, first-serve so you don't even need PAX tickets to get in. If I lived anywhere nearby I'd seriously have considered driving up there to see it.
GrizzNKev won the GAF Bingo and won tickets to PAX, I dunno if he'll duck out to visit the ANet show, but he was really into it before launch (as I recall, he wanted to focus on his education so he wasn't able to play much).
Jest Chillin
Member
He's talking about the inclusion of it as a whole. Thus far it's been a slow addition but once the gear comes in, the difference will be considerable with that alone. Head, shoulders, chest, hands, legs, feet will be enough of a difference that it will be noticeable.
They can only creep that if they put some artificial barrier only introducing 1 to 2 pieces of gear at a time and then giving those multiple avenues of acquisition before the next 1 to 2 pieces come out. At that point it would feel like a painfully slow addition.
My point is that a lot of this stuff is time-gated, and the weapons themselves are account-bound. Meaning, you are earning them at the rate of everyone else (roughly) and will get there just about the same time. Some a little before, some a little after, but the difference of time will be moot.
This is just harkening back to ascended gear being added in general. Everyone bitches because they have to "regear" again, but this is the only time. They're not going to add another tier of gear (at least at this time).
User Name Here
Member
That's good and all, but I'd still rather swap out skills for an entirely new function that is set within the play style of the weapon I use. Or have both the new traits and skills in this case.
That will still hold true if you can swap out skills though. You would just have to re-commit the new skills to muscle memory.
I honestly would prefer these changes take place via Traits, so that you're only changing one or two skills on your weapons rather than just shuffling in an entirely new batch. I also think that, rather than new skills, traits should be tasked with changing the functionality of skills outright. I've been saying since before launch; mathy traits (10% damage, +15 Toughness, 20% chance to...) need to go away and be replaced by traits that actually mix up the mechanics (block now becomes a reflect, gain clones on dodge, etc.).
True, but I don't believe that you'll swap out all 5 skills for something different; if that's the case, it's much more likely they'll just add a new weapon (either one that profession previously didn't use or an entirely new weapon class). So it would be something like changing one skill, maybe two.
Jest Chillin
Member
A lot of the complaint comes down to acquisition though. I've never personally had a problem with Ascended but I'm also not a Min-Maxer. The largest problem with Ascended initially was that it required Fractals while Exotic had multiple paths. With the weapons, we're in the same boat again (for now) where Weapons and certain materials being Account Bound again forces players to one path. And it will most likely happen again with Gear if they make that Account Bound.
Yes, crafting is relatively easy but from what I saw it's going to take quite a bit of farming to acquire everything to level to 500 and then to craft the weapons. That was previously fine for Legendaries since they were optional unique skins. Once stats come into play.. it starts to bother people. It's only a slight annoyance right now when the stat boost is small but once Gear hits, if there is still only one specific path, it becomes more bothersome to people since the Stat difference is no longer negligible.
Also, you don't earn them at the same rate as others at all. Everyone has the same time cap, yes. Not everyone devotes the same amount of time to the same type of things.
What? Did you watch the livestream? She specifically went through all of the materials and explained how varied the acquisition methods are;
Bloodstone Dust - Champion loot bags
Dragonite Ore - Temple chests, Mega Bosses, keeps and castles in WvW
Empyreal Fragments - Dungeons, Mini-dungeons, JPs, Camps and Towers in WvW
Globs of Dark Matter - Salvaging Exotics (only source)
Thermocatalytic Reagent sold by vendors
It looks like there's another material or two in there that she kind of purposely avoids mousing over too, so there may be more. It seems like the only aspect of the game that doesn't net you some of these new materials is sPVP, for obvious reasons. But it hardly seems like anyone is being forced down 'one path'.
Ascended Gear, especially being phased in slowly like this, just means there's something new to do if you want to do it; with the exception of Agony Resist, there's not that much different between someone with all possible Ascended slots filled and someone who has one or two (for example, I get by just fine with one ascended ring, which was a random drop). It's something new to do that isn't something you can or need to finish quickly.
It's a carrot. A gear grind. A tiny, extremely inconsequential one, but it is one nonetheless. Personally I felt they got away with it when they introduced the ascended rings for fractals since those were tied to progression in fractals, and they also really focused on finding new ways to deliver them after fans were pretty upset.
However, this seems like doubling down on the aspect that people don't like, and that's just strange. And once people catch up on weapons, they'll introduce armor which starts the whole gear treadmill they strove to avoid in the first place. Doesn't bother me since I'm not a min-maxer, but I think this time we can say they went back on their word, even if just a little bit. I just don't like tying colors to stats because I am a child and I like pretty colorful things.
However, this seems like doubling down on the aspect that people don't like, and that's just strange. And once people catch up on weapons, they'll introduce armor which starts the whole gear treadmill they strove to avoid in the first place. Doesn't bother me since I'm not a min-maxer, but I think this time we can say they went back on their word, even if just a little bit. I just don't like tying colors to stats because I am a child and I like pretty colorful things.
The stream is starting to make some noise, nothing but music yet though!
Welcome Address 1:00-1:30PM PDT (4-4:30pm EDT)
Sneak Peek Play Session 1:30-3:00PM PDT (4:30-6:00pm EDT)
Panel: “The Living World of Guild Wars 2″ 3:30-4:30PM PDT (6:30-7:30 EDT)
Honestly, out of everything, this is the only thing that bothers me in the slightest.
Maybe I'm just ultra-casual, but I'm not in any rush to max crafting to 500 or load up all my characters in Ascended gear. I'll probably get it eventually, but it doesn't impact my gameplay noticeably (skill is still more important than stats) any more than my exotic trinkets that could be Ascended do.
It's a minor statistical gain any way you want to look at it, a hard-but-not-Legendary-hard tier of equipment that everyone conflagrates into a shitstorm and starts throwing around terms like 'gear treadmill' and 'loot grind'. Just like Ascended Accessories, which nobody even thinks about anymore.
Welcome Address 1:00-1:30PM PDT (4-4:30pm EDT)
Sneak Peek Play Session 1:30-3:00PM PDT (4:30-6:00pm EDT)
Panel: “The Living World of Guild Wars 2″ 3:30-4:30PM PDT (6:30-7:30 EDT)
Honestly, out of everything, this is the only thing that bothers me in the slightest.
Maybe I'm just ultra-casual, but I'm not in any rush to max crafting to 500 or load up all my characters in Ascended gear. I'll probably get it eventually, but it doesn't impact my gameplay noticeably (skill is still more important than stats) any more than my exotic trinkets that could be Ascended do.
It's a minor statistical gain any way you want to look at it, a hard-but-not-Legendary-hard tier of equipment that everyone conflagrates into a shitstorm and starts throwing around terms like 'gear treadmill' and 'loot grind'. Just like Ascended Accessories, which nobody even thinks about anymore.
Jest Chillin
Member
I did watch the livestream. However it seemed that crafting certain parts required certain mats. So to use what you've listed as an example, let's say I need Empyreal Fragments. I don't run dungeons or mini-dungeons. I like JP's but I've beat them all and don't like farming them generally. That leaves me with Camps and Towers in WvW and while I do enjoy WvW, I don't like to spend all of my playtime doing WvW exclusively and when I do participate in a lot of WvW, my Camp and Tower flipping would limit my acquisition rate by factors out of my control like Commanders plans/whims and strength of our opposition.
That would put me in a disappointing position. Legendaries are similar in that they force certain activities for certain mats for specific weapons. However Legendaries don't offer any statistical advantage, or at least didn't.
Now I acknowledge fully that as of this patch the stat difference isn't huge. Where the concern comes is when the Gear gets patched in. If Anet uses the same crafting system/rules then the stat difference becomes much larger. When compared to Exotics which can be bought from the TP, dropped from DE's, dropped from lvl 80 or higher mobs, purchased with Karma, or purchased with Dungeon tokens and all of which offer the same stats... it's a considerably more narrow path for Ascended.
The difference is you're looking at the Weapons in a Vacuum while others are looking at how the weapon crafting is implemented and applying it to the eventual gear. Which is going to have a noticeable stat gap between Fully Ascended vs. Fully Exotic.
User Name Here
Member
Yeah, I see what you mean. That's actually a better idea than just stat modifiers / "chance to trigger X" and it makes sense if you look at what they've done later in GW1.
I'm sure that's probably what they're going to do. If so, I hope they add some kind of "weapons bag" at some point.
I still want to have the option to swap out weapon skills though.
Yeah, the difference here is that nothing in the game requires you to be in the very best gear. There's no enrage timers or gating that says you can't enter this content AT ALL unless you have X gear. Your skill as a player and how you use your abilities far outweighs a small stat increase. I'll get an Ascended weapon when I get to it, the great thing is this will reward people for doing Jumping Puzzles and Minidugeons, something which people have largely ignored because you only get greens and blues. Now though blues and greens will be exciting to get AND the addition of these new materials will make you actually want to go do them. The different types of content becoming more rewarding should be what you all take from this, not the minimal stat increase that doesn't matter and will be there waiting for you when you get there.
The path is certainly more narrow right now for weapons versus other types of ascended, BUT with time they'll add more avenues to acquire the items. It's not like your only option for the next half a year will be crafting and a rare drop. They'll add them to other parts of the game, but like last time that will take some time. In regards to armor, I think they'll add 1-2 pieces at a time as they have in the past so that way you don't get overwhelmed with the amount of stuff you can acquire at once.
Kos Luftar
Member
Are we sure we cannot transmute specific colours to a desired stat distribution?
User Name Here
Member
Yeah, that was a great idea.
Live stream is starting!
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2
(Edit: Okay, maybe not yet; they showed the crowd but then cut back to the logo)
I'm sorry, but dungeons, mini-dungeons, JPs and two of four structures in WvW is a pretty wide range of activities for a material type. I mentioned I'm pretty casual, but I get in a dungeon or two a week, maybe a JP if it's a daily, and a little WvW every Friday night. It doesn't feel narrow to me, and unlike Ascended gear being limited only to Fractals, this method touches on just about every aspect of the game, and where it doesn't the other material types do.
Honestly, if you're just out killing champs, doing JPs and playing the game like you normally would, you're going to be getting these materials. If you want to farm them, you don't even have to do the same thing or stay in the same area repeatedly to do so. The presence of these new rewards may also encourage people to try something they don't usually do (but not so narrow that they have to do something they dislike). I really don't see the problem here.
Also, where this any other MMO, it would be "Please Raid or fuck off, thank you."
Get an invisible bag. Even a little 10 slot one should be enough for every weapon type, even on a warrior.
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2
(Edit: Okay, maybe not yet; they showed the crowd but then cut back to the logo)
I'm sorry, but dungeons, mini-dungeons, JPs and two of four structures in WvW is a pretty wide range of activities for a material type. I mentioned I'm pretty casual, but I get in a dungeon or two a week, maybe a JP if it's a daily, and a little WvW every Friday night. It doesn't feel narrow to me, and unlike Ascended gear being limited only to Fractals, this method touches on just about every aspect of the game, and where it doesn't the other material types do.
Honestly, if you're just out killing champs, doing JPs and playing the game like you normally would, you're going to be getting these materials. If you want to farm them, you don't even have to do the same thing or stay in the same area repeatedly to do so. The presence of these new rewards may also encourage people to try something they don't usually do (but not so narrow that they have to do something they dislike). I really don't see the problem here.
Also, where this any other MMO, it would be "Please Raid or fuck off, thank you."
Get an invisible bag. Even a little 10 slot one should be enough for every weapon type, even on a warrior.
We don't know if it's possible but nothing suggests that you can't based on how the system works currently. You'd just need two of the same weapons obviously.
New Anniversary Trailer: http://youtu.be/rkPwxUu6kSI
(Don't get too excited though, it's just the Chinese trailer in English, but it's still pretty cool.)
(Don't get too excited though, it's just the Chinese trailer in English, but it's still pretty cool.)
Jest Chillin
Member
I have no issue with the method in how it brings more attention to the lesser played aspects of the game. I just feel that in making Ascended acquisition more complicated and involving, the side effect is splintering the playerbase performance no matter how trivial a splinter it may seem. While I'm not a Min-Maxer, there is definitely content whose difficulty is greater or lesser depending on statistical spread and even class tools (i.e. The Gauntlet).
I understand that it's likely Anet will add more ways to acquire the gear but in the meantime there will be a performance gap and seeing as how I can't imagine them introducing Gear piecemeal (meaning they'll most likely add all slots at once) that means a large performance gap for an unknown period of time until they add those other avenues of acquisition.
People are theorizing that you may be able to transmute the look of one Ascended Stat Combo to another but I don't think it's been confirmed or denied yet.
The funny thing is your argument structure isn't all that different from the "if you want it, then Raid" argument in that because your particular playstyle works fine, you're finding it hard to see the viewpoint from others. I don't play like you, you don't play like Hawkian, and Hawkian doesn't play like Arken. I understand that there is a spread of activities but the spread doesn't cover each material equally and each material isn't equal in each weapon type. Yes that's better than the standard Raid for Gear MMO but it's a step closer to that than it is to Exotic acquisition and not everyone is ok with that.
Having such a system for Skins is fine but once stats are in the mix, then there's going to be a segment of the player base that is bothered by it.
Kos Luftar
Member
Is stream running because all I see is the Anniversary Bash banner and music is playing? I am on a shitty 3g connection so I am not sure if i am just seeing that because my connection sucks or the show has not started yet.
From the Official Forums:
No, they've cut to the crowd a few times, but so far just music and the title screen.
Josh Foreman said:
No, they've cut to the crowd a few times, but so far just music and the title screen.
Still a banner.
Stream is showing the new Anniversary Trailer now, so.... progress, I guess. Ready your it'shappening.gifs.
Edit: Mike O'Brien just took the stage, here we go!
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2
FYI, I'll be posting tidbits from the stream as we go, since Jira is at an appointment and can't watch, so expect this thread to move fast as news breaks.
Something big is being announced right now.
- Open world challenge, that requires strategy and tactics, not zergs.
- New version of Tequatl the Sunless.
Edit: Mike O'Brien just took the stage, here we go!
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2
FYI, I'll be posting tidbits from the stream as we go, since Jira is at an appointment and can't watch, so expect this thread to move fast as news breaks.
Something big is being announced right now.
- Open world challenge, that requires strategy and tactics, not zergs.
- New version of Tequatl the Sunless.
New Taco needs +80 people, apparently.
New Shockwave attack needs to be jumped over, gets taller as his health drops.
Fight is now timed, and Taco has a buff that makes him invulnerable if you don't take it off with the turrets. Turrets need to be kept up or you can't even damage him.
LFG will be in the September 17th Update (Finally)
New Shockwave attack needs to be jumped over, gets taller as his health drops.
Fight is now timed, and Taco has a buff that makes him invulnerable if you don't take it off with the turrets. Turrets need to be kept up or you can't even damage him.
LFG will be in the September 17th Update (Finally)
Jest Chillin
Member
Yup.. they made the mechanics unable to be ignored. Good move.
If I were to propose something for gathering the materials (and since they're all just arbitrary numbers anyway...why are we settled on "it takes 1 x to make this"?)...
Activities give 10:1 in their preferred material. Still random amounts and such, yada yada, just inflate the numbers. It makes progress clear and measurable and not (so) reliant on RNG luck. Also make a 5:1 conversion to a trade-able version of each material.
Players don't end up being forced to be well-rounded, yet will obviously be rewarded well for doing so. And unless there is an order of magnitude difference in activity "funness"/speed, things should generally even out across the player base. But if a player wants to JP 24/7 until they puke they will still get where they would like to be.
Activities give 10:1 in their preferred material. Still random amounts and such, yada yada, just inflate the numbers. It makes progress clear and measurable and not (so) reliant on RNG luck. Also make a 5:1 conversion to a trade-able version of each material.
Players don't end up being forced to be well-rounded, yet will obviously be rewarded well for doing so. And unless there is an order of magnitude difference in activity "funness"/speed, things should generally even out across the player base. But if a player wants to JP 24/7 until they puke they will still get where they would like to be.
Nothing in the game requires exotics over rares, yet exotics are still easy to acquire. One of the entire purposes of this game was that joining the power plateau was not a grind like other games. This isn't going to be true anymore. And because - like you just pointed out - none of the content is balanced around this gear, there's actually no reason for us to be handed that grind. It's literally just because they want some shit for you to grind for months. That's the gap they have between legendaries and exotics that they needed to fill, the amount of grind it took.
Kos Luftar
Member
This is the difficulty I like not the difficulty that they are introducing in SAB.
Can't wait to get a chance to play this new version of Taqo. Hope they up the rewards a bit as well.
Can't wait to get a chance to play this new version of Taqo. Hope they up the rewards a bit as well.
Jest Chillin
Member
Taco is going to make people cry so hard for at least a week or two.
At 75% Taco has a new "Vortex" ability that drags you underwater to a special sort of 'room'; you have to swim up to a portal in order to escape or you get killed.
Overhauled rewards; nothing drops from trash mobs, everything drops from the boss.
He drops new ascended weapons, and a new Ascended re-skin exclusive to this fight.
Taco mini too
Different kinds of difficulty. This requires coordination and tactics, SAB TM is a completely different kind of sadistic, trial-and-error style difficulty... and that's optional to boot.
Overhauled rewards; nothing drops from trash mobs, everything drops from the boss.
He drops new ascended weapons, and a new Ascended re-skin exclusive to this fight.
Taco mini too
Different kinds of difficulty. This requires coordination and tactics, SAB TM is a completely different kind of sadistic, trial-and-error style difficulty... and that's optional to boot.
Jest Chillin
Member
New rewards for Taco. He has a chance to drop Ascended Weaps with a skin unique specifically to him.
Nothing new going on now, they're getting a second group of attendees ready to try Taco again.
To summarize for the new page:
- Taco is getting a revamp on September 17th:
- LFG will be going in September 17th as well!
To summarize for the new page:
- Taco is getting a revamp on September 17th:
- The fight involves a lot more coordination; turrets need to be kept up to remove poison clouds and a buff that makes him invulnerable.
- Supposedly you'll want 80+ people to beat him. Two groups at the show haven't been able to beat him so far, but they're probably not on their characters with their gear and skill setups and whatnot.
- There's a phase where you need to defend batteries charging the Mega Laser. You can use Dragon Bash-esque Jump Pads to move around the area quickly.
- Taco has a new ability ("Vortex") that drags people underwater; you have to escape to the surface or drown. He also creates waves that have to be jumped over, which increase in height as his health drops.
- The fight is now timed as well, and more waypoints near the fight become contested to prevent rez-rushing.
- New rewards include Ascended Gear, as well as a unique skin specific to that fight and a Taco mini.
- Supposedly you'll want 80+ people to beat him. Two groups at the show haven't been able to beat him so far, but they're probably not on their characters with their gear and skill setups and whatnot.
- There's a phase where you need to defend batteries charging the Mega Laser. You can use Dragon Bash-esque Jump Pads to move around the area quickly.
- Taco has a new ability ("Vortex") that drags people underwater; you have to escape to the surface or drown. He also creates waves that have to be jumped over, which increase in height as his health drops.
- The fight is now timed as well, and more waypoints near the fight become contested to prevent rez-rushing.
- New rewards include Ascended Gear, as well as a unique skin specific to that fight and a Taco mini.
- LFG will be going in September 17th as well!
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