I don't think Lunar or Retro were arguing that anyone out there is intentionally attempting to ruin the experience of others by participating, just as the groups that yelled at me for interrupting their fights weren't doing so to make me feel shitty. It's a side effect. If "obviously those are the ideal conditions and cannot all be met every single time," stuff like that comprises the "other times."
This is an issue I am very sympathetic toward, because while I may disagree about its appropriateness on the WvW maps, I fully acknowledge that the GvG-fights-in-BLs "scene" is simply not for me and I'm not particularly qualified to comment on their experience. While I'm not sure I accept the proposition that WvW is a sandbox, I do feel that as long as the self-contained actions of others aren't hampering my own enjoyment, I don't mind at all. It has simply been my subjective experience, in the two instances in which I had interaction with them at all, I was made to feel pretty shitty. In neither event did I have a clue what was going on. The first, which was months ago but definitely in NA primetime, was just a 1v1 duel with tons of people hidden watching behind the windmill. Not recognizing it as a duel I just saw an opportunity for two easy kills and I'm pretty sure I was on my Ele and straight up Rode-the-Lightning into the midst of their fight. Then the whooole group I didn't see streams out from behind the windmill and starts yelling at me for interrupting, plenty with all caps and the expected slurs, plus lots of instructions ("go around, this area is for duels right now, etc."). The second more recent instance was with a full-on GvG match that I interpreted as just a bizarrely placed battle between the two other servers. Once again I didn't understand what I was looking at until I was being told that I had screwed it up.
In both instances, I apologized, went on my way and remembered to avoid the area for the rest of my session. But internally I did feel pretty shitty, on the one hand because I inadvertently messed up some people's fun, and on the other because I did so simply by, from my perspective, following the intended conventions of the game mode unaware of specially imposed rules. It's an identical sensation to minding your own business in Queensdale, rolling around and happening upon a champ to solo, then being yelled at for screwing up the train. Or completing the Warmaster event in Cursed Shore and accidentally depriving the farmers of their embers. The argument seems to hinge a lot on "who are you to tell others how to play?" but in all of these instances, it was groups of players telling me how to play for failing to acknowledge that their activities relied on ignoring the self-explanatory design of the game in favor of customized restrictions.
Of course I can't hate on all GvG, or all farmers, or any broad swath or types of players for these experiences. They are merely the outlying negative consequences of contradicting intended design- again, even if 97% of the time those consequences are mitigated by proper etiquette and civil behavior. I really don't have anything against the communities as a whole, or necessarily even against the individuals to whom I apologized, but I hope this provides a little perspective.
In any event, it is certainly comforting to me that the Obsidian Sanctum, which always struck me as far more intended for these sorts of "anything goes" situations detached from the main aims of WvW, has been chosen as the future home for the bouts.
This is an issue I am very sympathetic toward, because while I may disagree about its appropriateness on the WvW maps, I fully acknowledge that the GvG-fights-in-BLs "scene" is simply not for me and I'm not particularly qualified to comment on their experience. While I'm not sure I accept the proposition that WvW is a sandbox, I do feel that as long as the self-contained actions of others aren't hampering my own enjoyment, I don't mind at all. It has simply been my subjective experience, in the two instances in which I had interaction with them at all, I was made to feel pretty shitty. In neither event did I have a clue what was going on. The first, which was months ago but definitely in NA primetime, was just a 1v1 duel with tons of people hidden watching behind the windmill. Not recognizing it as a duel I just saw an opportunity for two easy kills and I'm pretty sure I was on my Ele and straight up Rode-the-Lightning into the midst of their fight. Then the whooole group I didn't see streams out from behind the windmill and starts yelling at me for interrupting, plenty with all caps and the expected slurs, plus lots of instructions ("go around, this area is for duels right now, etc."). The second more recent instance was with a full-on GvG match that I interpreted as just a bizarrely placed battle between the two other servers. Once again I didn't understand what I was looking at until I was being told that I had screwed it up.
In both instances, I apologized, went on my way and remembered to avoid the area for the rest of my session. But internally I did feel pretty shitty, on the one hand because I inadvertently messed up some people's fun, and on the other because I did so simply by, from my perspective, following the intended conventions of the game mode unaware of specially imposed rules. It's an identical sensation to minding your own business in Queensdale, rolling around and happening upon a champ to solo, then being yelled at for screwing up the train. Or completing the Warmaster event in Cursed Shore and accidentally depriving the farmers of their embers. The argument seems to hinge a lot on "who are you to tell others how to play?" but in all of these instances, it was groups of players telling me how to play for failing to acknowledge that their activities relied on ignoring the self-explanatory design of the game in favor of customized restrictions.
Of course I can't hate on all GvG, or all farmers, or any broad swath or types of players for these experiences. They are merely the outlying negative consequences of contradicting intended design- again, even if 97% of the time those consequences are mitigated by proper etiquette and civil behavior. I really don't have anything against the communities as a whole, or necessarily even against the individuals to whom I apologized, but I hope this provides a little perspective.
In any event, it is certainly comforting to me that the Obsidian Sanctum, which always struck me as far more intended for these sorts of "anything goes" situations detached from the main aims of WvW, has been chosen as the future home for the bouts.
