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Guild Wars 2 |OT3| Two Week Updates, One Box, Zero Subscriptions
- Thread starter Retro
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Does Mrs. Retro know you're picking up this Retor dame?
That's the exact opposite of what they should be doing.
There essentially exists two opposing storytelling methods in Guild Wars 2. First is the Personal Story where you are Tyria's savior, right hand of Trahearne and directly responsible for reuniting Destiny's Edge and getting all of the racial heroes to work together to defeat Zhaitan. The other is the Living Story where you're present and recognized for your contribution, but are very clearly not the central character. The narrative instead has formed around Scarlet as the focus, with Rox and Braham, Marjory and Kasmeer, and the so-cute-I-think-I-just-got-diabeetus Taimi (who Xeris noted last night is more adorable than Vanellope von Schweetz, who exists in a world actually made of sugar) serving as the heroes we 'help'.
The problem is that the Personal Story is frozen in time, while the Living Story is working on the assumption that Zhaitan is dead and there are new problems to deal with. If you put the focus on the individual character being all-important and special (i.e. the central hero) then the story has to stop at points so the players understand and engage in their own story (otherwise, new players would log in and the Living Story would suddenly be all about things they've done already). It means the story can't evolve without making lots of concessions.
That's how you end up with garbage like the weird transition from Post-Cataclysm WoW (2010) where Deathwing is an imminent thread, then going to Outland (2007) to deal with the Burning Crusade even though you've never resolved the Deathwing plot, then to Northrend (2008) where Arthas exists, back to Post-Cataclysm WoW where he does not but Deathwing does and has been patiently waiting, then Pandaria where Deathwing is no longer a threat but Garrosh (who you have been helping all through WotLK and Cataclysm) is suddenly the villain. Not to mention the next expansion takes you back to Outland but in the past, where Garrosh is still the main villain because Time Travel, so he can create a different Horde than the one that basically set the entire Warcraft story in motion in the first RTS game.
I apologize to anyone who read the previous paragraph and is now cross-eyed. Metzen gonna Metzen.
The Living Story flies in direct opposition to that sort of convoluted, static story telling. Which is why any expansions we see for GW2 will probably not limit player access to new areas like Cantha or Elona; they've spent too much time making sure the old world feels alive to just pause it and go somewhere else. But I digress.
There's also something to be said for the expense; every line of dialogue would have to be recorded 10 times per language; GW2 currently supports English, French and German text and voice, with Spanish in text only (not to mention they'll probably be adding Chinese to that list before the end of the year). That much VO is expensive, and could be better spent on a core cast of characters everyone will see rather than one character that a theoretical 1/10th of the population sees. It also means those characters can be vastly more interesting (Marjory and Kasmeer's relationship, which I'm shocked hasn't received more attention) and the story can have much deeper meaning (if only because you're experiencing everything from multiple points of view).
The player also experiences a loss of agency when their character is taking actions he or she wouldn't want them to take, but has to for the purpose of the story. If we want any kind of interesting storytelling, it means ArenaNet will have to write our characters doing a lot of things that are beyond our control, that maybe our characters wouldn't do. Presenting players with multiple choices in terms of story direction is simply too expensive and a waste of resources in a game this large, and again goes back to sacrificing resources for little gain.
Not to mention that it also creates a strange situation where everyone is The Hero. When everyone is special, no one is, which leads to a weird sense that the player is basically interchangeable with any other player. While pulling the focus away from the Personal and onto the Living does essentially the same thing, the Personal Story approach comes at the expense of gallons and gallons of paint trying to keep up the charade that it doesn't, and that You, yes, You are still the One Great Hero and Savior of Tyria.
I have no doubt that trying to reconcile these two incompatible states of the game's storytelling is something that has been discussed often and at great length within ArenaNet. I would even go so far as to say that it's probably the biggest high-level design-related problem they've had to solve, and one we'll probably see them solve it this year, if only because it will be harder to change later on (especially after the China launch).
Personally, I'd like to see the Personal Story removed or trimmed down substantially; keep the racial stuff as a sort of extended tutorial, with new cosmetic rewards that make you want to do it. In the Horizontal Progression CDI, somebody suggested opening up the Racial skills to all players; that'd be a great way to unlock them without having to create a lot of new work. You'd wander the world and find the various racial personal stories and at the end of each chapter you get one of that race's skills. That means everyone gets to see these little story snippets and getting a new skill actually has something cool attached to it.
Yes, and she also knows that I make it a point to have a nightly engagement with a couple named Mel and Drew. To be honest though, I think I'm only involved because they forget to buy new batteries for their strange, humming device.
I got the impression from NPC dialogue that dreaming a dragon is unique to player characters and Caithe. There are sylvari out in the world that are following their own dreams though the only ones I can think of are a warden somewhere in Caledon that dreamed of joining the wardens and everyone's favourite greatsword-wielding necromancer dreaming of cleansing Orr.
Not really related but I realised that if characters from the personal story are being kept out of the living world to avoid conflicts there's not much chance of Malyck popping up again.
I got the impression from NPC dialogue that dreaming a dragon is unique to player characters and Caithe. There are sylvari out in the world that are following their own dreams though the only ones I can think of are a warden somewhere in Caledon that dreamed of joining the wardens and everyone's favourite greatsword-wielding necromancer dreaming of cleansing Orr.
Not really related but I realised that if characters from the personal story are being kept out of the living world to avoid conflicts there's not much chance of Malyck popping up again.
Yes, but whatever the Sylvari experience is later incorporated into the Dream, as a sort of collective consciousness (not so much a hive mind but a sort of racial awareness of the world's harmony). I can't remember if Sylvari still see the dream after being 'born', I think they do though. It's also possible that Scarlet is one of those characters who saw the Dragon too.
Also, Scarlet supposedly mentions Malyck by name in the Tower of Nightmares, but only if you've selected that biography option). Whether it's a hallucination or not, I can't say.
She did but she's just taking the piss because she knows I want to know what's going on with him.
Rather have them seperate pve from wvw and balance gvg within the wvw meta. Dont see them devoting time just for gvg only meta.
Don't Sylvari see part of their destiny in their dream? As one of your options, you have to pick what you saw. That defines your "Wild Hunt". There's two possibilities: Either Scarlet is actually fulfilling her wild hunt or she's rejecting it. Personally, I think she doesn't like her fate and is rejecting it, but the way "What Scarlet Saw" was written made it really difficult to set that up.
But yeah, they really really really need to figure out how they're going to deal with the personal story. Just cut it or incorporate it.
But yeah, they really really really need to figure out how they're going to deal with the personal story. Just cut it or incorporate it.
Retro I think you're misunderstanding what I meant.
The game needs to explain why the player characters are much more powerful than Destiny's Edge or any militia from any race (Charr have fucking three).
This is on a "whole world" level.
Explaining how you yourself are special to other people is a Personal Story thing. It's about the bonds and friendships you build.
Also my thoughts on Scarlet
I feel like the Marionette is a test run for building her own Elder Dragon.
Why? Because I think Scarlet's true goal is the destruction of the Elder Dragons through sheer power and obliteration. She doesn't care that she will tear apart Tyria to do it, she just wants
.
We will reap the harvest of her plans, in the worst possible way.
SIDE NOTE
I want the professions explored more within the world/story. How did Guardians come to be? etc.
The game needs to explain why the player characters are much more powerful than Destiny's Edge or any militia from any race (Charr have fucking three).
This is on a "whole world" level.
Explaining how you yourself are special to other people is a Personal Story thing. It's about the bonds and friendships you build.
Also my thoughts on Scarlet
I feel like the Marionette is a test run for building her own Elder Dragon.
Why? Because I think Scarlet's true goal is the destruction of the Elder Dragons through sheer power and obliteration. She doesn't care that she will tear apart Tyria to do it, she just wants
the nightmares to stop
We will reap the harvest of her plans, in the worst possible way.
SIDE NOTE
I want the professions explored more within the world/story. How did Guardians come to be? etc.
Honestly no they don't and that would be the worst thing they could do. Let ME determine why I'm special. That was one of the things I liked least about TSW, ToR and games like them. I prefer the game to make me feel like my story is mine, not like everyone is doing the exact same thing as I am. With the way things are now, GW2 makes it seem like I'm determining my own fate and renown in the world. Not as much as EQ did perhaps, but a damn site better than most modern MMO's. Until it becomes the Traherne show, it's easy to suspend disbelief that 10,000 other people are doing the same thing. After? Well, that's one of the major reasons people hate that section. It's no longer their story. I really don't want that feeling from level 1 on.
Also, you're making an assumption that we ARE more powerful than Destiny's Edge. Nothing I've seen in game implies that. Remember, they themselves took on a dragon and almost won. Us as players took out a dragon along with an entire army at our side.
The tl;dr of all of that is your way takes away player agency and forces us to play the story they write. If I want that I'll read a book or play a single player rpg.
Guardians came to be because a bunch of people wanted to guard other people and developed the skills to do so. Do we really need explanations for why there's thieves and engineers?
You seem kinda angry.
I just think there needs to be explanations of why players have to be the ones to solve the world's problems. Besides the fact that we're actual people behind our avatars, I mean.
Remember that everyone in the world is a good guy. Is it not so bad that players are told the reason why we have so much power and control over our abilities (way more than any NPC has, besides Destiny's Edge) is because of reasons?
I understand you want it to be "your story". I also see the need to explain why player agency is the ONLY agency. We can't count on NPCs to come bail us out (see: dungeons) because we're the ones who make the difference. But WHY are we the only ones? This is what I want to see answered.
That's all.
And there could be so much more added to professions. Thieves Guild, for instance, or a Guardian Training Hall, or an Engineer Think Tank (with explosions)!.
Hell even the goddamn part of your sheet that says "Dignity, Ferocity, etc" means nothing. I want these things to matter.
I think that is quite literally basically the story behind the playable characters in FFXIV:ARR...maybe. Substituting their lore of course.
It really bugs me that we have those three traits, and they're utterly worthless.
The reason for each one of my 22 characters for why they decided to be heroes is different. Some are doing it for fame, some for revenge, some are blown by the wind from event to event. Hell, some of em would join Scarlet if they could and one or two are outright gibbering insane. You're telling me that any game could write a story for why we're the Big Damn Heroes (tm) and encompass all that? I'm not even convinced that we're even all that more powerful than an equally seasoned npc from a lore perspective. Mechanics-wise yes, but look at some of the people we meet along the way. All of the mentors storywise seem to be at our level or a little better right up until Claw Island.
Noisy Ninj4
Member
This is a bad idea that might sound like a good idea. Attempting to further explain why people are able to do amazing things breaks has been attempted in many stories to their detriment. Look at Star Wars. Does the medichlorians thing help the story or improve the world? No, it does not.
The temperament system could use some love, though. Or just be removed.
My point is I don't want the game getting to the point where "we've destroyed every evil villain and here comes the next one for the grinder"! and the villains are just fucking stymied at why some neighborhood snotnose thief and his pals can take him down.
One of the best approaches to addressing player agency in an MMO came from Wrath of the Lich King.
In the final fight against the Lich King, he outright states every single challenge he sent against the Horde and the Alliance were to make YOU and your friends stronger, so that he could KILL YOU and make his greatest champions. That's right, the big bad actually acknowledged that the players were the strongest thing in existence, and took measures to obtain you as his prized possessions.
GW2 does not address that you have taken down THREE collaborations of Scarlet's forces, address that you, the pact, Destiny's Edge and your friends took down Zhaitan, address the fact that you put a stop to the plague in Kessex, address the fact that we will eventually stop Scarlet.
We take no responsibility for our actions, we get no acclaims for our deeds, and instead we slink back into the shadows until our assistance is needed again, with which the NPCs struggle until we show up, even at the most basic level for dynamic events.
I know what you're thinking - that if these weren't true, it wouldn't really be a game - events could complete themselves and none be the wiser. But I say that it doesn't have to be that way. I say the events SHOULD be random who wins, instead of the default "sliding scale". If you show up, the enemies need to take note of it, shout "we're going to need more reinforcements!" and let you feel like yes, you are skilled and they have to take notice of that.
Instead we get enemies scaling up in power, more spawning, etc, without regards to why except WE know that they're doing it because of how many people are at one event at one time.
What I'm asking for is pretty hard to implement. It's not something any MMO has undertaken because it's really hard to see from a technical standpoint.
What I'm asking, in its bare essence, is acknowledgement of our deeds. We are not given enough credit / not given enough options to take credit for the things we have done beyond a couple of "oh yeah, you were there" mentions from NPCs.
You might counter me and say yes, well what if I don't want to be recognized, what if my Thief McStealstab wants to remain in the shadows, doing work without being noticed? That's fine, this is why OPTIONS are options, and are needed.
This is also why player-generated content is going to be the king of future MMOs, because when the players can set themselves up as the government, or the bastion of hope on the corner of badlands and civilization, it will make much more of an impact on general "worth" that players feel is in their character.
This is kind of a non-answer since you're not really responding to my post at all. I'll respond to as best I can, given what I have to work with.
First, I don't think the player characters are that much more powerful; as Xeris pointed out, Destiny's Edge almost took down Kralkatorrik on their own. 5 people and one wolf almost took down a dragon, and it seems likely if Logan hadn't bailed out it probably would have worked. For the player, it took an army (itself a conglomeration of three large organizations), airships and a huge campaign to maybe kill one.
I also don't think the player character is special, meant to be special, or should be special, if only for the fact that there's literally millions of them. See the last three paragraphs of my post and maybe respond to that?
My first thought is that it's straight from The Secret World with their whole lightning bug thing you swallow which gives you powers / ability to revive. It just strikes me as unnecessary to have narrative reasons to designate players from NPCs. There doesn't need to be an explanation for everything, and more often than not trying to do so ends up just being distracting (see also: Midi-chlorians)
See?
That's not addressing player agency, it's only pretending it exists. Arthas says that to literally everyone; not only are there the 20 people in your raid, but the hundreds, thousands or perhaps millions of players who get to that cut scene. It's the same as a quest giver who begs you to get his grandmother's pocketwatch from the old farm or the guy asking for iron scraps to repair the bridge in Redridge. It's only pretending that you're making a difference, but 5 seconds later someone is coming by and he's asking for that pocket watch again, or 10 years later the bridge is still collapsed.
Because we alone didn't; the approach they've taken with the Living Story has been that all players are participating, helping out the central characters (Braham, Rox, etc.). You've never been declared the Leader, Great Hero, General, Commander, etc., because the goal is to have all of the players forming a sort of army on their own. The focus has been on Rox as Rytlock's liason, Marjory and Kasmeer as Logan's agents and Braham along for the ride.
The players in GW2 are basically the police, firefighters and armed forces of Tyria. Most of the time it's a thankless job in dangerous situations, and more often than not somebody at the top of the chain of command takes credit for it. The alternative approach (again, read my original post) is a world where everyone is the Savior of Tyria, which makes earning that title the equivalent of getting your driver's license.
These are the exact same things, you just want them to say "Oh no, look out, it's <character name>!" when they do it. Pretty sure some bandits already shout "I'm gonna need some help here!", by the way.
In this scenario you describe, you do realize that there will still be a small handful of well-known characters and hundreds or thousands of disposable nobodies, right? EVE is very similar to this, with millions of players doing things every day, but only occasionally there's a major power play or inside job. And EVE also isn't trying to tell a story in the same way either.
Of all the amazing things that could come of Player-generated content, you've decided to focus on the least interesting aspect of it.
Okay I get it. Maybe it's my hold over from previous MMOs where you are special has trained me to think that you're supposed to be this way.
If everyone is not supposed to be special, then what in the game is supposed to encourage the player to immerse themselves in the world? If my actions don't matter because there's 10,000 other people who will just make the action happen anyway, what's the point?
There are items to chase, armor to collect, minis, etc. These are "game"y items added to the world for the player to invest themselves in. The story happening around them (yea, entirely around the bubble of the player) is interesting and intriguing, but I feel like my character is just a cog in the wheel to keep the narrative going. I get "slices" of the content to keep and call my own, achievement items, etc, but I personally don't feel like there's any permanence to my character or his allies after something major happens. No one's died except Theo Ashford, and he wasn't even close to the players. I consider the major people we interact with to get things done (Braham, Rox, et al) our "friends".
I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here any more, and I get the idea that I'm alone on my thinking - so I will stop trying to voice my opinion about a subject which I'm clearly either A) misunderstood or B) being ganged up on.
If everyone is not supposed to be special, then what in the game is supposed to encourage the player to immerse themselves in the world? If my actions don't matter because there's 10,000 other people who will just make the action happen anyway, what's the point?
There are items to chase, armor to collect, minis, etc. These are "game"y items added to the world for the player to invest themselves in. The story happening around them (yea, entirely around the bubble of the player) is interesting and intriguing, but I feel like my character is just a cog in the wheel to keep the narrative going. I get "slices" of the content to keep and call my own, achievement items, etc, but I personally don't feel like there's any permanence to my character or his allies after something major happens. No one's died except Theo Ashford, and he wasn't even close to the players. I consider the major people we interact with to get things done (Braham, Rox, et al) our "friends".
I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here any more, and I get the idea that I'm alone on my thinking - so I will stop trying to voice my opinion about a subject which I'm clearly either A) misunderstood or B) being ganged up on.
The problem is, other games have tried it your way. Many of us have played those other games and found them lacking in player agency. One of the things that draws me to GW2 is I can ignore the living story if I want and go chase personal foozles. Put another way, I can live in the world. Star Wars Galaxies, EQ, and some others did it better to some extent, but they had different problems.
That's not to say things should be totally open and player created. So far the ones that have been closest to that were probably UO, Darkfall, Shadowbane, and, arguably, City of Heroes. All of those descended into some level of anarchy that became strait out un-fun. Be it the lord of the flies experience of Darkfall and Shadowbane or the xp exploit missions that everyone flocked to in CoH, they all suffered from a lack of guidance.
To put it simply, the xeris manifesto for MMO develoopment is set up the world, give me a flow of interesting things to do if I choose, and leave me be to go at it how I want.
That's not to say things should be totally open and player created. So far the ones that have been closest to that were probably UO, Darkfall, Shadowbane, and, arguably, City of Heroes. All of those descended into some level of anarchy that became strait out un-fun. Be it the lord of the flies experience of Darkfall and Shadowbane or the xp exploit missions that everyone flocked to in CoH, they all suffered from a lack of guidance.
To put it simply, the xeris manifesto for MMO develoopment is set up the world, give me a flow of interesting things to do if I choose, and leave me be to go at it how I want.
It's a big, beautiful world that is constantly changing, sometimes in really interesting ways and sometimes not, but always changing. It's also fun as hell, but I think you're looking for more narrative reasons than just "because it's fun."
But that's not true at all; there are events that you can trigger on your own or with a very small number of people. Vyrance and I wrapped up the Modnir events alone last night, and a few weeks ago my brother and I did the entire zone, pushing from the first few camps all the way to the end. Our actions did matter, and made action occur.
See also Operation Tidal Sword, the Orr Clearing event, every time we spawn the Karka Queen and the rest of SBI comes rushing in.
C) Playing the victim card? Nobody's attacking you (Xeris' post doesn't come across as 'angry'), and we're trying to respond to your posts as best as we can. If you want to have a discussion on narrative styles and/or the Living Story vs. Personal Story, we can do that (and we've been trying to do that), but all you've been doing is sort of nebulously complaining that the game doesn't celebrate your achievements as an individual.
I don't know maybe I'm just being weird today. I love the game and it totally is fun. I'm just looking for something more that I can't figure out what it is from the game.
And you're right Retro, I'm just complaining about something I don't even understand very well, which is not the best way to start a discussion, as I'll just get more and more frustrated trying to express a point that even I don't entirely know what it's about.
I'm not trying to be a victim - I'm just realizing that what I'm trying to say isn't possible to say in the first place. So I'd rather not draw out more comments from the rest of you about it.
And you're right Retro, I'm just complaining about something I don't even understand very well, which is not the best way to start a discussion, as I'll just get more and more frustrated trying to express a point that even I don't entirely know what it's about.
I'm not trying to be a victim - I'm just realizing that what I'm trying to say isn't possible to say in the first place. So I'd rather not draw out more comments from the rest of you about it.
Noisy Ninj4
Member
Consider the matter tabled. Try deconstructing a few good stories that you enjoy and see if you can find what compels your interest in them. It may illuminate your understanding of the issue you have with gw2 missing something.
hockeypuck
Member
Knowing that the original intent will never be realized, I've always wanted the gimped personality system to be updated such that it would affect idling animations. Or more ambitiously to affect the phrases your player says in combat or to NPCs.
Cuina: "Out with it."
Charr with Brute personality: "Shut up and open the bank."
Noisy Ninj4
Member
That would actually be pretty nice. It doesn't sound all that crazy to make either.
"Can we talk?" Does not befit a Charr with a Barbaric personality.
Jest Chillin
Member
I don't know.. I feel like I can kind of understand what Ash is saying here. That in Anets attempt to make the player feel like they're a small part of a larger on-going world, the individual player doesn't get recognized for anything on any level. In that sense, it's like the whole world has become the Treahearne part of the Personal Story. The problem with that being there isn't a narrative driving the individual to achieve. Only a mechanical drive to complete the activity and collect the loot.
Realistically there isn't any effective/fair way to solve this. In games like WoW they sort of recognize you. To use Ash's Lich King example, while LK talks to the raid specifically, officially the raid was just a vehicle for the Hero Level NPC's to deal the final narrative blow and get the credit. In that sense, GW2 is similar. The only way that individual players or even small groups could get some recognition in the world like that would be if the game actually allowed Server First groups to be written into the story.. but there's obviously problems with that both in terms of belittling that content for everyone after the fact and nobody wants to hear about Leggolasz the Sylvari Hunter dealing the final blow to Jormag. The other solution would be adding in more Personal Story with choices determining a more varied outcome but I think we all know Anet's teams are pretty pressed as it is, so such an undertaking is probably out of reach. At least for the moment.
I could be wrong in my interpretation of what Ash is trying to convey though, and if so then apologies.
Realistically there isn't any effective/fair way to solve this. In games like WoW they sort of recognize you. To use Ash's Lich King example, while LK talks to the raid specifically, officially the raid was just a vehicle for the Hero Level NPC's to deal the final narrative blow and get the credit. In that sense, GW2 is similar. The only way that individual players or even small groups could get some recognition in the world like that would be if the game actually allowed Server First groups to be written into the story.. but there's obviously problems with that both in terms of belittling that content for everyone after the fact and nobody wants to hear about Leggolasz the Sylvari Hunter dealing the final blow to Jormag. The other solution would be adding in more Personal Story with choices determining a more varied outcome but I think we all know Anet's teams are pretty pressed as it is, so such an undertaking is probably out of reach. At least for the moment.
I could be wrong in my interpretation of what Ash is trying to convey though, and if so then apologies.
Marionette boss music up on soundcloud
https://soundcloud.com/maclaine/set...ndcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter
https://soundcloud.com/maclaine/set...ndcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter
I enjoyed the instance you could join after doing the event. This is probably how they should move forward with it.
Being able to better see how the living story is affecting all these NPC's while not making us travel the globe to see it all was smart. It also allowed them to delve deeper into some back stories, which already puts it far ahead of the personal story. If anything, the Living Story has at least given us secondary characters that are enjoyable and exciting, far better than what we got with Destiny's Edge. This is where they need to move the content they otherwise have been putting up as "text dumps" on their website. Flavor should be in the game, not on some webpage. Hearing about Kasmeer's past from her directly is far more satisfying than reading a short story.
My one tiny gripe is that I feel like the instance should have been up in Lornar's Pass, not Lion's arch. The dialogue made it sound like they were still on the battlefield. Oh well, that's a small gripe compared to what I think was a solid effort to improve their delivery of the story.
Honestly, I think this arc is somewhat of a lost cause. It will end with a bang which is good, and the characters they've introduced are actually interesting, but I feel like its rocky start has doomed it to mediocrity. However, it means good things for the next arc that they've sorted out a lot of their problems and seem to be moving in a good direction. I think by starting off on the right foot, the living story can be a little closer to its potential.
As a side note, I'd say that one of the key things that frustrated people about Scarlet is that we've never really had any progression in beating her. She started small and is getting bigger, and nothing we can do really stops that. The alternative, which is much more satisfying, is to introduce a villain that has a large presence and has already done terrible things, and each of the living story chips away at his plans until you've unraveled them down to their core. They did this for the personal story, and while that story has some flaws, it certainly has a more satisfying progression than the living story. I think they'll remedy this in the next arc.
Being able to better see how the living story is affecting all these NPC's while not making us travel the globe to see it all was smart. It also allowed them to delve deeper into some back stories, which already puts it far ahead of the personal story. If anything, the Living Story has at least given us secondary characters that are enjoyable and exciting, far better than what we got with Destiny's Edge. This is where they need to move the content they otherwise have been putting up as "text dumps" on their website. Flavor should be in the game, not on some webpage. Hearing about Kasmeer's past from her directly is far more satisfying than reading a short story.
My one tiny gripe is that I feel like the instance should have been up in Lornar's Pass, not Lion's arch. The dialogue made it sound like they were still on the battlefield. Oh well, that's a small gripe compared to what I think was a solid effort to improve their delivery of the story.
Honestly, I think this arc is somewhat of a lost cause. It will end with a bang which is good, and the characters they've introduced are actually interesting, but I feel like its rocky start has doomed it to mediocrity. However, it means good things for the next arc that they've sorted out a lot of their problems and seem to be moving in a good direction. I think by starting off on the right foot, the living story can be a little closer to its potential.
As a side note, I'd say that one of the key things that frustrated people about Scarlet is that we've never really had any progression in beating her. She started small and is getting bigger, and nothing we can do really stops that. The alternative, which is much more satisfying, is to introduce a villain that has a large presence and has already done terrible things, and each of the living story chips away at his plans until you've unraveled them down to their core. They did this for the personal story, and while that story has some flaws, it certainly has a more satisfying progression than the living story. I think they'll remedy this in the next arc.
asheron's call had worldwide popups for two or three quests each time they were completed and it was awesome.
Does gw2 do the thing were first run content like taco has a lot more health than the repeated versions?
Nope it's just based on how many people are in the fight.
Noisy Ninj4
Member
No, but GW1 sent out a worldwide game chat announcement every time a team or guild won the hall of heroes.
Anet latter the God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals title. Every time someone finished it, it'd also send a worldwide announcement.
i had forgotten about the hall of the heroes, i like that feature. I car that legolas just killed jormag. It should be something that only happens every few hours at most, preferably less though.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I think the best way to tell a story in a MMORPG, is letting the player join one of several causes, orders, factions, or something like that, and strive to be part of that.
I personally play single player games for the im-the-hero-that-will-save-the-world, but TBH I don't think that's very interesting. It can be. It can be, but we've seen it so much, that to me, being a foot soldier in a group that I choose to join is a much better way.
With that being said, I think the orders of tyria leaves a lot to be desired. I think they are pretty cool, bút they could have been better. For one, I think segregating all players into just 3 is kinda vanilla plain. But I also think there is not that much difference. I don't even really like their armors for light, medium, heavy.
I think it could have had a bigger impact. Maybe the players home instance should have been in their orders city/stronghold. Maybe that would have worked better if there was 10 different orders instead of 3. And maybe instead of 3 so-so storylines that lasted a long time, they could have made shorter ones, that gave access to some more visually unique stuff at lvl 80?
I personally play single player games for the im-the-hero-that-will-save-the-world, but TBH I don't think that's very interesting. It can be. It can be, but we've seen it so much, that to me, being a foot soldier in a group that I choose to join is a much better way.
With that being said, I think the orders of tyria leaves a lot to be desired. I think they are pretty cool, bút they could have been better. For one, I think segregating all players into just 3 is kinda vanilla plain. But I also think there is not that much difference. I don't even really like their armors for light, medium, heavy.
I think it could have had a bigger impact. Maybe the players home instance should have been in their orders city/stronghold. Maybe that would have worked better if there was 10 different orders instead of 3. And maybe instead of 3 so-so storylines that lasted a long time, they could have made shorter ones, that gave access to some more visually unique stuff at lvl 80?
I think it would be interesting if they started releasing more personal story stuff alongside the living story. Like depending on which faction you picked, the living story will have missions for that character who is part of the Vigil and so on.
At least then you would feel that you're being recognized, even if it just based on previous levels. I think it would be kind of cool, a new living story after the end of Scarlet's arc called: "Rising through the ranks" and it focus on the three factions.
At least then you would feel that you're being recognized, even if it just based on previous levels. I think it would be kind of cool, a new living story after the end of Scarlet's arc called: "Rising through the ranks" and it focus on the three factions.
Retro already answered this, but for the rest that don't quite see it, it's a dragon in red paint. When you enter the room run to the right side, turn to face the center, pan the camera up, and find the head near Scarlet's console in the corner.
While they don't outright talk about it, if you know some of the lore of how magic worked in GW1 you can easily draw the parallels to GW2.
Warrior is still the Warrior, so not much else to add there. They do appear to have combined with the Paragon. Ranger also didn't change much.
Thief is the only class that primarily takes from a class not from the base campaign, Assassin. The initiative system can be seen as an extension of their previous skill combo system.
Engineer is another martial class, like Warrior. It's new to GW2 and can be said to be a profession primarily developed out of the efforts of Charr and Asura primarily.
The last four professions take from the four main types of magic in Tyria. They are Destruction (Elementalist, learned how to use more of the elements at a faster rate), Aggression (Necromancer, in my opinion took the techniques of the Dervish to create Death Shroud), Preservation (Guardians, who were Monks that wanted to become more "Cleric" like essentially, and also took a few things from Ritualists for Spirit Weapons), and Denial (Mesmers, which turned their hexes into solid magical constructs that can still lock down their opponent or can be used as concentrated magic bombs).
Arguments can also be made that Mesmer and Engineer contain elements of the two professions they were making for the fourth GW1 campaign that got scrapped for EotN.
I'd actually be afraid of how they could be more overt in game about the professions, but it could happen if they expanded the roles of each of the profession trainers (where you go to retrait). Or maybe just give them more dialogue.
Kos Luftar
Member
Lol you guys made Ash cry.
Why so you keep arguing about a dying game?
Why so you keep arguing about a dying game?
Kos Luftar
Member
Whats your problem, Mr.NeverPlaysGW2?
Reddit is trying to decypher this...
It seems to be quite difficult...they aren't even sure that it is a message of somekind.
sackboy2197
Member
Where does this come from?
Also, I finally managed to enter the Lair and got the diary.
Where are the arrows pointing to exactly?
Kos Luftar
Member
That image comes from the consol that you watched and saw the arows, the last image is that code on the left and right of the machine that is holding the marionette up.
Lion's Arch, Vigil Keep, Chantry of Secrets & Drumand Priory.
sackboy2197
Member
shysaursoft
Member
Dinky. Tybalt. Rytlock. Logan logan run away. Caithe. Eir. Snaff. Zojja. Rox. Ka-Braham. Scarlet. Lord Faran. Elllen Nopersonality, Evon Gnashbladeshouldawon. Dessa.
I have a hard time remembering anyone or anything's names. I could list perhaps two from my years with WoW, and only because a) I played Warcraft so I know Garrosh and Thrall and b) Cairne Bloodhoof because <3 Taurens).
But for some reason, with GW2, a lot of these characters stick. Perhaps it's because due to Personal Story and Living Story, so I'm exposed to them a lot. Perhaps their goofyness makes them endearing. KA-BRAHAM! Not sure.
But for all GW2 is just a bunch of cool game systems inside a multiplayer client with some lore window dressing (just like GW1 but with less pages and pages and pages of endless text who cares skip oh my god why did someone want to write Lord of the Rings level epic fanfic holy cow I read a lot don't get me wrong but this is insane) - some of the lore is actually sticking and I'm starting to care.
Rox and Braham are a good example of this - at first I was like, ug. Then, during the Molten Alliance dungeon, I was like, okay, I kinda like these two idiots, and now, I actively pay attention to them when they appear.
Dessa is another one I'm now interested in, if only because of one single line of dialogue after finishing the temporary Fractal intro mission.
I'm not claiming that Anet are all that good at storytelling. But I don't think they're as bad as people make them out to be. Half the battle is already lost when someone's a hostile critic, because no matter how good something is, if someone thinks it's bad, it's bad and will remain that way to them no matter what until they change their mind. Many people confuse just not liking something personally, with thinking it's objectively bad.
I have a hard time remembering anyone or anything's names. I could list perhaps two from my years with WoW, and only because a) I played Warcraft so I know Garrosh and Thrall and b) Cairne Bloodhoof because <3 Taurens).
But for some reason, with GW2, a lot of these characters stick. Perhaps it's because due to Personal Story and Living Story, so I'm exposed to them a lot. Perhaps their goofyness makes them endearing. KA-BRAHAM! Not sure.
But for all GW2 is just a bunch of cool game systems inside a multiplayer client with some lore window dressing (just like GW1 but with less pages and pages and pages of endless text who cares skip oh my god why did someone want to write Lord of the Rings level epic fanfic holy cow I read a lot don't get me wrong but this is insane) - some of the lore is actually sticking and I'm starting to care.
Rox and Braham are a good example of this - at first I was like, ug. Then, during the Molten Alliance dungeon, I was like, okay, I kinda like these two idiots, and now, I actively pay attention to them when they appear.
Dessa is another one I'm now interested in, if only because of one single line of dialogue after finishing the temporary Fractal intro mission.
I'm not claiming that Anet are all that good at storytelling. But I don't think they're as bad as people make them out to be. Half the battle is already lost when someone's a hostile critic, because no matter how good something is, if someone thinks it's bad, it's bad and will remain that way to them no matter what until they change their mind. Many people confuse just not liking something personally, with thinking it's objectively bad.
Kos Luftar
Member
ANET should fire all their developers and start hiring all the commenters who are "trying to help" to develop the rest of the game.
They will design Raid Wars 3 and everyone will be super happy.
They will design Raid Wars 3 and everyone will be super happy.
guardians are a product of the paragon teachings and culture mixup. like, the paragons spreaded through the world and time made them evolve into what today is a guardian.
our roots are in Elona.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guardian
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Paragon < these guys. didnt played gw1, but later today i'll read more about them
For what it's worth, there's a snippet about Guardians in Sea of Sorrows. I don't have my e-reader in front of me, but somebody on the forums posted what I think it was; "Its a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training, wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha. A real grab bag of you cant hurt me. Theyre called Guardians."
I know exactly what thread of Reddit lead to this comment.
I did see someone say the developers don't care anymore, which is a step up from the developers being inept or lazy. Given a few years, we might even see someone actually realize the developers are humans, capable of mistakes and personal preference!
Yeah, I know, that's never gonna happen either.
I know exactly what thread of Reddit lead to this comment.
I did see someone say the developers don't care anymore, which is a step up from the developers being inept or lazy. Given a few years, we might even see someone actually realize the developers are humans, capable of mistakes and personal preference!
Yeah, I know, that's never gonna happen either.
Exactly my first though too.
nailed it, glad I didn't say anything as a picture is worth one thousand of the word things
Weltall Zero
Member
I'd like to add that WoW's translation to Spanish was absolutely terrible. I never played with it on for obvious reasons, but every time I checked something in Gema's computer it was like a punch in the eyes. I remember a trash item you got from the moa-equivalents, "Broken Bill", which had the icon of a large bird's beak. It was translated as "Factura Rota". Yeah, pal, that's the wrong kind of bill (Google image it). Another highlight was "Calavera de Camionero", from "Old Teamster's Skull" ("camionero" being unambiguously "truck driver"). I mean, what context can that make sense in a fantasy MMO!? Just imagine how normal dialogue was butchered; sometimes even quest directions were wrong or simply nonsensical.
Guild Wars 2 on the other hand has an amazing translation. Even though I play the game in English (as I do with all non-comedic games), whenever a word pops up that I'm not entirely familiar with, or one that I know the concept of but don't immediately know the Spanish term for, or simply something that seems really hard to translate, I check the Spanish translation, and nine times out of ten, I'm impressed by its accuracy or ingenuity. This goes a long way to improve the experience of those who do play in Spanish, and seems really ironic that, for all the money Blizzard has, they skimped so badly where our little country is concerned.
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