Support NeoGAF

[shysaursoft]

At least it provides better combat at end game. GW2 party/zerg combat is very bad in PvE.

Nope.

GW2 is at its best during dungeons, 5-person parties. This idea that the game was designed for 1-on-1 is a fiction.

*ALL* MMOS that have encounters that require more people,end up being a zerg with 'move out of bad spots' encounters. WoW raids were no exception. The only difference there, is the entire party was dependant on a few key players to keep the deeps alive, and all the deeps had to do was follow DBM and stop attacking when it told them, move when it told them. WildStar is no different, from what I've seen.

If the Twisted Marionette has taught us anything, is that the "casuals" are actually having a hard time when the game expects anything more of them other than autoattack 1, and will actually *rage* at ArenaNet for "forcing them to get better at the game" when all they want to do is walk around and find loot. I won't deny GW2 eases casuals in, perhaps to a fault - but you think every MMO doesn't do that right off the bat? They *have* to, you can't scare away potential customers right at level 1. Though I'd like to see a truely "hardcore" permadeath Dark Souls style combat MMO try. It'd probably find a receptive audience. Just not the millions most MMOs need.

Throwing around the "GW2 iz for teh casuals" is not only trite, it betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of how things work. Akin to claiming the fighting game you don't personally like, is 'just a button masher'.

C'mon son.

My suggestion: run more dungeons with a variety of people, and avoid the 'stack and pack' groups. Play the dungeons *normally*, and see how different team compositions dramatically change the feel of each encounter. It's amazing how much things change, and yet, people can still succeed, in spite of the differences. I was in a SE path 2 run with all mesmer/thieves, myself the only Engineer. It was a clusterfuck, but we got creative and made it through regardless. And that we *could*, with almost all cloths, speaks to how well designed each class is when they're utilized fully.

The biggest problem GW2 faces right now, are the theoryfighters/numbercrunchers, who are trying to propagate the narrative that there's a "best" way to play. GW1 ended up with the same issue, where it's Build X or you don't get into groups. I'm hoping Anet has an idea on how to solve this.

I won't deny that many people keep zerging, and propagating the narrative that zerging is the only way 2 play. But we see this in games all the time: people don't want to change how they play, they want to force the game to play the way they like to play. Zerging large encounters gets the jobs done, with enough dead bodies and skilled players carrying the less skilled, but it's hardly optimal.

Zerg at Taco: fail.
Organized groups at Taco: farm.

Just because people play badly, doesn't mean the game is badly designed.

The biggest problems with the Trinity were:

1. Unique, irreplaceable skills (CH)
2. Separate characters with their own leveling and gear

If you tackled those issues with exp tricks (redirection of exp gain/improving subsequent characters greatly/whatever), instant class switching, and some minimal kind of gear universality you could probably manage the best of both worlds. Some players can stick with just what they know, some can moonlight, and some can become pros at all of them, but without the ridiculous time investments before you even know if you WANT to be a pro at <X>.

FFXIV tries this to a degree, and I like some of the systems. But it still results in queue times as you wait for a tank to show up. While that's fine, if that's the kind of thing you want - I don't think it's a universal truth that everyone *wants* the trinity just because it makes encounters more "structured".

 

[Lashley]

I dont get the hype surrounding Wildstar, whats so great about it?

 

[shysaursoft]

I dont get the hype surrounding Wildstar, whats so great about it?

It has a nice art style, it's gotten a lot of hype built up for its supposed appeal to the lapsed "hardcore raiding" people (whoever they are), and it has some neat stuff like customizable housing, different "Careers" that influence the kind of side-missions you get, like Explorer getting tasks involving exploring up mountains (jumping puzzles), while others get tasks involving building structures in the open world, etc.

But the hype is still hype. People *wanting* something they're imagining it to be. The reality, as with all MMO launches, is going to crush some, and others will go "meh, I still like it more than X" and play.

So far though, I've seen little that sets it apart from the "standard".

 

[oktarb]

I dont get the hype surrounding Wildstar, whats so great about it?

Fun artistic style, aimed at being entertaining while providing layers of complexity, unique setting. I'm in the stress test and I'll say it feeds the appetite for something new and different. There are a myriad of MMOs out in all flavors and this one at least attempts to be new.

I can see myself jumping between GW2 and Wildstar for a difference in feel. Sometimes I just don't feel the fantasy vibe and there's not a whole hell of a lot in the Sci-fi realm imo.

 

[TrueNorth]

Hello GAFGuilders and Guild War 2ers. I just got Guild Wars 2 and I was playing last night wondering what in the heck I was going to do with myself on a game I on which I know of no one. I think I'll scrap my little level 2 ranger on the random server I chose last night, mosey on over to Storm Bluff and hit yall up, if yall don't mind.

I've only played WoW and Rift before, and from what I've read of GW2, it has some intriguing ways of levelling, specialization, and world combat. Not much of a PvPer, but I do love me some raiding (as long as I'm not tanking, lol), once I get my character down. I was a bit of a slow leveller on WoW, but I loved the crafting.

Anyway, I hope that you'll accept me into your distinguished ranks once I get over there sometime.

Cheers!

 

[Proven]

A reminder, SBI Wurm attempt in two hours. Since it's Saturday, try to show up a little bit early. I should be in Bloodtide about 30 min before.

 

[oktarb]

Welcome to GW2. There's a ton of advice here and on the wiki. leveling in GW2 isn't the main focus as the game will often level you up or down to meet the content. GW2 excels at creating a gorgeous world where you can do what you want when you want.

I'd recommend join GW2 Neogaf for the company if not the advice. They're very active and organize events consistently.

In all reality you can level to 80 doing nothing but crafting but then you'll just have a lvl 80 with no experience to waypoints to teleport to. Following the personal story will essentially get you to level 80, with a fair bit of farting around in between.

Gear comes easily and you can get to a competent level without trying. From there you can "end game" fine tune t he hell out of everything via Ascended gear.

A good portion of GW2 is caring about how you look so if that's not for you your interest may wane somewhat.

 

[GrizzNKev]

It has a nice art style, it's gotten a lot of hype built up for its supposed appeal to the lapsed "hardcore raiding" people (whoever they are), and it has some neat stuff like customizable housing, different "Careers" that influence the kind of side-missions you get, like Explorer getting tasks involving exploring up mountains (jumping puzzles), while others get tasks involving building structures in the open world, etc.

But the hype is still hype. People *wanting* something they're imagining it to be. The reality, as with all MMO launches, is going to crush some, and others will go "meh, I still like it more than X" and play.

So far though, I've seen little that sets it apart from the "standard".

The thing is that, and this is the same logic I used when thinking of GW2, MMOs that want to be different have to just not be MMOs. There's a certain thing that says, "This game is an MMO." You have a skill bar. You have boons, conditions, and visible stat-based combat. You have typical RPG elements like an inventory of items and gear, and characters that follow a leveling progression.

It's possible to make a game that exists without all of these things. It might not be an MMORPG, but it can be an MMO. It has to tell us that it's a game we'd want to play offline, and then somehow add other people from the internet into the equation.

I'm not really an MMO guy. I like GW2 for all of the things it doesn't share with the rest of the genre, rather than the things it does share. "Action combat" is always a false promise if you hold it back by trying to force it into the limitations of a skill bar combat system. That's why I'm excited for Destiny, but also not super hyped. I want an FPS that exists in a persistent online world, that you just play. But how is that possible without a progression that differs one player from another? Destiny has leveling and gear too, but it tries very hard to avoid the MMO label. It's still a first person shooter. But will players think of it in terms of characters, gear, mobs, buffs, conditions, skills, stats, aggro, kiting, grinding, etc.? Or will it capture the feeling of cooperation in a shared space but still be defined by motion, aiming, and guns?

There are these constructs that exist, defining what a genre is, and how a game in that genre should behave. Online FPS? Wait in lobby. Search for match. Play match. Go back to lobby. MMO? Walk a lot. Kill dumb enemies. Level up. Get money. Acquire better items. Kill less dumb enemies. Level up. Walk some more.

That's some pretty incoherent rambling, but what I want in the future of MMOs is games that can't be defined as MMOs, but carry the spirit of online cooperation and competition in a persistent world.

 

[TrueNorth]

Welcome to GW2. There's a ton of advice here and on the wiki. leveling in GW2 isn't the main focus as the game will often level you up or down to meet the content. GW2 excels at creating a gorgeous world where you can do what you want when you want.

I'd recommend join GW2 Neogaf for the company if not the advice. They're very active and organize events consistently.

In all reality you can level to 80 doing nothing but crafting but then you'll just have a lvl 80 with no experience to waypoints to teleport to. Following the personal story will essentially get you to level 80, with a fair bit of farting around in between.

Gear comes easily and you can get to a competent level without trying. From there you can "end game" fine tune t he hell out of everything via Ascended gear.

A good portion of GW2 is caring about how you look so if that's not for you your interest may wane somewhat.

I plan to do a little bit of everything, including following the personal story. I've never played a game that allowed me to personalize how my armor looks, so it might be fun to play around with that. If it becomes too much of a time sink, I'll let it slide, but I doubt it will decrease my interest in the game if the game is compelling enough.

 

[Proven]

I'm not really an MMO guy. I like GW2 for all of the things it doesn't share with the rest of the genre, rather than the things it does share.

There are these constructs that exist, defining what a genre is, and how a game in that genre should behave. Online FPS? Wait in lobby. Search for match. Play match. Go back to lobby. MMO? Walk a lot. Kill dumb enemies. Level up. Get money. Acquire better items. Kill less dumb enemies. Level up. Walk some more.

That's some pretty incoherent rambling, but what I want in the future of MMOs is games that can't be defined as MMOs, but carry the spirit of online cooperation and competition in a persistent world.

.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Pm me the account name.#### because what you PMed does not work.

done!

 

[hockeypuck]

Hello GAFGuilders and Guild War 2ers. I just got Guild Wars 2 and I was playing last night wondering what in the heck I was going to do with myself on a game I on which I know of no one. I think I'll scrap my little level 2 ranger on the random server I chose last night, mosey on over to Storm Bluff and hit yall up, if yall don't mind.

If you're only level 2 then it might be worthwhile to delete that character and transfer for free to the Stormbluff Isle server for the GAF convenience (assuming you're in NA and not EU). I believe you should be able keep your character's name, too.

All the officers in the guild except for Kos are nice people who'll let you into the guild right now if you want, so no need to wait if you want some free gold.

 

[Ceres]

If you're only level 2 then it might be worthwhile to delete that character and transfer for free to the Stormbluff Isle server for the GAF convenience (assuming you're in NA and not EU). I believe you should be able keep your character's name, too.

All the officers in the guild except for Kos are nice people who'll let you into the guild right now if you want, so no need to wait if you want some free gold.

You can delete and transfer for free even if in an EU server. I have a secondary account sitting in Piken Square atm. I first picked SBI but deleted characters and transferred 3x (including one accidental transfer to NSP) before deciding on a Europe server in case I wanted to experience that WvW.

 

[TrueNorth]

If you're only level 2 then it might be worthwhile to delete that character and transfer for free to the Stormbluff Isle server for the GAF convenience (assuming you're in NA and not EU). I believe you should be able keep your character's name, too.

All the officers in the guild except for Kos are nice people who'll let you into the guild right now if you want, so no need to wait if you want some free gold.

That is exactly what I did, since I wanted to try out a diff race and stuff anyway. I haven't yet whispered for guild access yet though, I will get on that when I can. I had some boring RL stuff to take care of.

 

[Arken2121]

For anyone who's looking at polishing their skills in pvp/WvW, let me know. This game's combat just keeps me in the zone. If only we had more skills....

 

[xeris]

That is exactly what I did, since I wanted to try out a diff race and stuff anyway. I haven't yet whispered for guild access yet though, I will get on that when I can. I had some boring RL stuff to take care of.

You can post your account name (xxxx.####) here and one of us can get you when you're offline as well. Just have to accept when you get on next.

 

[Lashley]

It has a nice art style, it's gotten a lot of hype built up for its supposed appeal to the lapsed "hardcore raiding" people (whoever they are), and it has some neat stuff like customizable housing, different "Careers" that influence the kind of side-missions you get, like Explorer getting tasks involving exploring up mountains (jumping puzzles), while others get tasks involving building structures in the open world, etc.

But the hype is still hype. People *wanting* something they're imagining it to be. The reality, as with all MMO launches, is going to crush some, and others will go "meh, I still like it more than X" and play.

So far though, I've seen little that sets it apart from the "standard".

Fun artistic style, aimed at being entertaining while providing layers of complexity, unique setting. I'm in the stress test and I'll say it feeds the appetite for something new and different. There are a myriad of MMOs out in all flavors and this one at least attempts to be new.

I can see myself jumping between GW2 and Wildstar for a difference in feel. Sometimes I just don't feel the fantasy vibe and there's not a whole hell of a lot in the Sci-fi realm imo.

Hmm might try it out when its released (when is that?)

 

[Jira]

Hmm might try it out when its released (when is that?)

Spring is the only known date, they're still running stress testing at the moment and are still in the process of redoing the entire UI so my guess is 4 months. Oh and it does have a sub fee in case you didn't know.

 

[Kos Luftar]

That is exactly what I did, since I wanted to try out a diff race and stuff anyway. I haven't yet whispered for guild access yet though, I will get on that when I can. I had some boring RL stuff to take care of.

done!

Welcome to the guild!

Do not listen to hockeypuck.

 

[Hawkian]

Hello and welcome to all our newest members. If you're curious the person in the guild you actually want to not listen to is Kos.

Tonight we will be having our weekly scheduled Guild Mission Saturday Night Fever at 9:00PM EST. Afterward we'll be having a lotto drawing and door prize, and there's no reason even brand new members can't enter and win (well, if you can afford a lotto ticket). or if at least level 15, you can usually join us for missions which yields a random 10g door prize to an attendee.

I'd also like to see about putting the funds together to get Lashley over to sbi tonight, please donate to the Immigration Fund tonight if you can.

I've reseated everything and tried each of my Ram sticks and still no go on my PC. Gonna be checking it out with my brother in law at his place tomorrow. maybe I missed something simple, I dunno. otherwise I'm getting something new and selling off some stuff, a 7950 being one if anyone is interested.

I should also mention briefly, with more info to come, that after Tuesday, two more updates brings the end of the story season, and afterward we will be getting back into some more scheduled Guild Events. If you'd like to host an event, please feel free, just send a pm to any officer and let us know how we can help.

 

[Retro]

Looks like a lot of lag / DCs. Hope it's not another DDOS. This is getting old.

Edit: Twice. And lots of lag.

 

[Nemesis121]

Looks like a lot of lag / DCs. Hope it's not another DDOS. This is getting old.

Edit: Twice. And lots of lag.

Same, i just got kicked out sheeeesh this getting annoying...

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Yep. Got in just long enough to ask about doomsayers in LA and got the DC; now I can't get in.

 

[shysaursoft]

Looks like the DDoS is happening again. Can't confirm if they're going after LoL again yet either.

 

[Kos Luftar]

Looks like a lot of lag / DCs. Hope it's not another DDOS. This is getting old.

Edit: Twice. And lots of lag.

I hear this is all because some people are trying to harass this phantomlord guy who plays LoL and he streams so they are tying to fuck up his gaming. Lucky for us LoL and GW2 share same servers.

Supposedly they are also calling in swat on his house. Just plain harassing him.

This is what I am hearing on TS.

 

[Retro]

I hear this is all because some people are trying to harass this phantomlord guy who plays LoL and he streams so they are tying to fuck up his gaming. Lucky for us LoL and GW2 share same servers.

Supposedly they are also calling in swat on his house. Just plain harassing him.

This is what I am hearing on TS.

It was a while ago, but I believe that all happened, yes. I dunno if it's the same group tonight or what, but it's getting old quick.

 

[Ashodin]

Sooooo guild missions borked huh. Because of some DDoS'ers

 

[Retro]

Sooooo guild missions borked huh. Because of some DDoS'ers

We're just starting late.

 

[Hyunashi]

The biggest problem GW2 faces right now, are the theoryfighters/numbercrunchers, who are trying to propagate the narrative that there's a "best" way to play. GW1 ended up with the same issue, where it's Build X or you don't get into groups. I'm hoping Anet has an idea on how to solve this.

Please, there are worst problems than this

Spoiler

like ****ing Bearbow rangers

. There will always be numbercrunchers in MMOs that want to determine what are the most effective builds to clear content without wasting more time than is needed. The core design problem with GW2 is that dungeon mobs have **** mechanics and ANETs answer to make things more difficult is just to give said mobs incredibly high levels of health.

This in essence is why people like to speed run stuff and why people like to encourage the use of particular equipment to make dungeon running more efficient. At the end of the day the player has a CHOICE. They dont have to conform to what a good number of the community are doing and can make their less efficient, but no less creative, builds with which they feel comfortable with. They can use the weapons they like, they can use the heal they prefer, they can use consumables if they choose to and they can pick the slot skills they believe they will need.

They do not need to conform to the words of the vocal minority that take the time, and the effort, to make efficient builds, but it means they should not be expected to be carried when parties are looking for said meta-builds. I have been in many parties wanting to clear content fast (I mean, after doing the dungeons daily for more than a year, its a blessing that run times have gone down from say, 1hr AC p1 runs to 10mins), but there will sometimes be someone who joins said party only thinking about himself and how to keep himself alive.

Hence, GW2 does NOT force you to listen to those number-crunchers you seem bitter about. It does NOT force you to conform to the meta. It does NOT force you to use a certain pieces of gear or you will not be able to clear content. It does NOT force you to follow a per-determined build. But if you want to build for your own personal survivability, join the appropriate parties or make your own. An individual is only realistically going to bring hate on their self if they join a speed run party and it becomes evident they are using support gear

Spoiler

or if they are a bearbow ranger.

Even despite all this, most parties are not anal about your gear unless the run is painfully slow.

If there is one problem that is easily greater than your apparent dislike of theor-crafters, it is that there is little build diversity. ANET are not doing much to solve this problem as nerfing crit-power will only make dungeon runs take longer and they will continue to be mindlessly boring as mobs/bosses will continue to have stupidly high health-pools to counter the lack of a challenge. Dont blame theory-crafters for trying to push builds for people that want to use their playtime efficiently, blame ANET for their game design.

tl;dr - Theory craters are not trying to propagate the best way to play GW2, they are only trying to propagate what is the best way to play GW2 if you want to do things efficiently. No one is stopping you from trying to make a trinity like party with 2 cleric shout guardians and 3 PVT classes.

 

[Kos Luftar]

Some picture from end of Guild Missions tonight. Great turn out.

These pictures taken with a potato. For better quality we have to wait for Miktars post.

 

[shysaursoft]

Reasonable post.

I meant, a vocal minority of self-proclaimed expert loudmouth theorycrafters who shout non-stop about 'Zerk or nothing' creating the impression that there's only one right way to play, and have had a HUGE impact on the community's perception of Guild Wars 2 at large, are a problem.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I dislike theoryfighters or numbercrunchers, rather, that GW2 has a community issue with certain bad seeds setting the tone for a lot of people who don't know better, and you see that clearly everywhere.

I disagree that Anet has a design issue, especially in dungeons. But there is an issue of people finding exploits stacknpack ways of dealing with what are, actually, great encounters - thus removing all design from the dungeon anyway, in favour of cheeseball mechanics. That's one area I think Anet does need to address - that people can cheeseball so easily through most of the encounters, thus, learning nothing about how to actually play. But if Anet stops the ability for people to stack... endless complaining from people who "don't have time to play", and should "be allowed to stack because that's how we want to play".

Fuck those guys.

Also, I agree with the post below.

 

[Jest Chillin]

"Efficiency" is a bs argument. It has nothing to do with efficiency and everything to do with trivializing content to get it done faster. Farming is it's purpose. If it was about efficiency then people would be looking for party makeups that compliment each other, similar to what's done in Raiding for other MMO's (ie. making sure the party has the widest coverage of buffs, groups heals, etc...). Now if players want to farm, that's their right. But to dress it up as being the superior way to play is disingenuous and exclusionary.

Nerfing the Crit/Power will make the speed run farming less viable and should hopefully encourage more build diversity. If everything does similar DPS, it should encourage more players to try different things. At the very least, if such a nerf eliminates speed run builds then it should allow Anet to re-tune the bosses and actually force the players to deal with the mechanics moreso than they have been. And if players are forced to deal with the mechanics, then the "all you do is zerg" comments would become even less true than they already are.

 

[hockeypuck]

Something exploded after we took down Sotzz and stay exploded

Another pre-Miktar last bar call group photo. Miktar the owl included.

 

[Retro]

Nice Missions tonight: Skritt challenge, Sotzz bounty (almost killed him before he entered his drunken phase), did a Proxemics lab puzzle with DH and ended with a Devourerer rush.

Anno won the 10g door prize, but rolled it into the transfer fund, Neofafnir won the 77g jackpot. Congratulations!

Mission Makeups are tomorrow at 3pm. The next chapter in the Living Story kicks off Tuesday. Say goodbye to Lion's Arch (maybe).

 

[Taffer]

I'm in very odd poses in that first shot of Kos' and hockeypuck's bar shot.

 

[shysaursoft]

There was much love during GAF Saturday Night Fever .

We partied hard, and if you look carefully, you might spot Kos.

Ended up as devourers. I don't even.

Nice group shot of everyone at the bar.

GAF: the guild of rank bunny, bunny everywhere.

Final shot of everyone:

 

[Korten]

There was much love during GAF Saturday Night Fever .

In your screenshot it looks like the charr next to me is making my character cry.

 

[BeekleMatter]

Had to miss missions again and you take group photos... *sniffle*



WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

 

[Noisy Ninj4]

Had to miss missions again and you take group photos... *sniffle*



WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

Let's do em on makeups. :3

 

[Aquila]

Hmm, I hope I wasn't standing in front of Ambrel in that group shot.

Be sure to visit the mariner plaques before LA blows ups too; who knows if they'll still be there.

 

[Lashley]

Loving those screenshots

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Iguessthat'sthat.jpg


http://www.gamespot.com/articles/gu...r-but-that-s-no-cause-for-alarm/1100-6417784/



would this take online sales into account as well?

 

[Lashley]

I'd say it would, yes.

Such a non-story though, typical from Gamespot.

 

[Kos Luftar]

I'd say it would, yes.

Such a non-story though, typical from Gamespot.

Exactly.

Guild Wars 2 makes so much money from gems and that is not counted.

 

[Hawkian]

Somehow I managed to not be in that nice straight-on shot Miktar took, I wonder where I was! Least there are some shots of me as a Zumba instructor.

That is a sillllly article from Gamespot. Next let's compare Q1 2014 to Q1 2012, sales are skyrocketing!

Lashley, we raised a fair bit of gold for your transfer last night. It can vary dramatically based on the time of day, so please have a look at the conversion rates at times you are able to get on and see how much it will run you so that we know if we need to raise more.

Sadly I most likely won't be back in time for mission makeups, getting to the bottom of my broken PC this afternoon.

 

[Lashley]

Somehow I managed to not be in that nice straight-on shot Miktar took, I wonder where I was! Least there are some shots of me as a Zumba instructor.

That is a sillllly article from Gamespot. Next let's compare Q1 2014 to Q1 2012, sales are skyrocketing!

Lashley, we raised a fair bit of gold for your transfer last night. It can vary dramatically based on the time of day, so please have a look at the conversion rates at times you are able to get on and see how much it will run you so that we know if we need to raise more.

Sadly I most likely won't be back in time for mission makeups, getting to the bottom of my broken PC this afternoon.

Very kind mate thanks, ill pop on in a second and check

 

[Lashley]

Currently stands at 6g 5s for 100 gems on my server

 

[shysaursoft]

Currently stands at 6g 5s for 100 gems on my server

The TP is global, that includes gold<>gem conversion rates, just so you know.

 

[Lashley]

The TP is global, that includes gold<>gem conversion rates, just so you know.

Ah makes sense

 

[Bradach]

I was playing a hard instance the other day that was a bit beyond my level and I was getting my ass kicked. I asked a higher level fella to help which he did. Then he gave me 10 gold. That was nice of him.
Is that a lot? Any ideas what a level 8 character should do with that?