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[Kos Luftar]

Did I miss something about these trait changes because to me they just seem more stream lined and I will not be losing any traits because everything is already unlocked. I will have opportunity to buy 5 new traits for my engi or do missions to unlock them.

Do you have to pay for current traits if you start a new toon. Like once a new too. Reaches 30, does he automatically get a bunch of traits or he has to buy/quest to unlock them? Even minor and major?

Xeris I think you have nothing to worry about. You love exploration and leveling so now as you explore you will unlock traits which is cool I think.

 

[Trey]

PvP was already in a bad state, these changes can do nothing but send it spiraling further downward. I'd hate to be a new player to PvP/the game and run into the issues with having to compete against people with special traits unlocked that you don't have access to.

It's saying that when the new traits are put into the game, they'll automatically be unlocked in PvP.

 

[Hawkian]

....

It clearly says all new traits will be "automatically unlocked and available for competitive PvP" How would a new player ever run into that situation where they're fighting other players have access to traits they don't if they're automatically unlocked?

That's the old comment he's referencing. The forum post saying they will need to be unlocked was today (but just a forum post, it's not mentioned in the web page post about Traits at all).

Read his post again

Kos, I don't see anything about minor traits mentioned at all, I assume those are just automatic as you hit that level.

 

[Proven]

Arcteryx is saying that ANet changed their mind. The blog post linked is from a while ago. The forum post linked is from today.

It started before that, the change to the dungeons began the journey to one main, ignore the rest of your characters, I wanted TA armor badly, i got it in 2 days ran TA with 4 different characters, today you can't do that.

Huh? With the account wallet you can still do that right now.

Edit: Oh, do you mean runs being account bound?

 

[Retro]

I have to imagine the cost of just buying the new traits is going to be at or around the 3g10s it costs to buy your trait tier books now (assuming you use gold). Those are going away, and in their place is something new. For all we know it could be skill points, gold, or fuck... laurels, even.

 

[Hawkian]

Huh? With the account wallet you can still do that right now.

Edit: Oh, do you mean runs being account bound?

That's what he means, you could keep getting tokens on every character.. at launch the acquisition rate was way lower than it is now though either way. Exempting Ascended it's become substantially easier for me to gear up my characters over time, though getting an entire full armor set from a dungeon in 2 nights of play isn't practical anymore which is a fair complaint I suppose.

I have to imagine the cost of just buying the new traits is going to be at or around the 3g10s it costs to buy your trait tier books now (assuming you use gold). Those are going away, and in their place is something new. For all we know it could be skill points, gold, or fuck... laurels, even.

Well in PvP it would only be gold or laurels so that you could unlock them without leaving. But it would be better for them to just be opened up. For a new character just starting out it won't make a lot of sense why just one trait in each line is locked and can't be used on creation..

 

[Retro]

That's the old comment he's referencing. The forum post saying they will need to be unlocked was today (but just a forum post, it's not mentioned in the web page post about Traits at all).

Read his post again.

Ah, yeah, I see it now. I didn't check the dates on the comment.

I guess all we can do is wait. We've got two blog posts tomorrow, trying to fill in the picture now before we have all the details is only going to lead to confusion. I mean, one of them is even called "The Art of Combat". I have to imagine they're not talking about spell effects there.

Well in PvP it would only be gold or laurels so that you could unlock them without leaving. But it would be better for them to just be opened up. For a new character just starting out it won't make a lot of sense why just one trait in each line is locked and can't be used on creation..

I meant in PVE. For PVP, I agree that everything should just be completely open from the start. You'll not catch me defending that.

 

[Arcteryx]

I'm hoping they have some other way of obtaining them, perhaps based upon milestones/wins/etc.

 

[Ashodin]

I don't want to just see the new traits, I want to see moar reworked traits!\

Edit: Hawkian, you gonna be on Saturday for mish? We gotta run this town while Retro and Kos are away.

 

[Hawkian]

unless I'm forgetting something important... I'll be there to run the show and dole out the prizes Sat. night.

 

[Retro]

I *might* be back in time for missions, but I thought I'd let you guys know in case we're a tad late. The goofy party is at 3, but we don't know how long it will last. Then there's the long drive home.

Better safe than sorry.

 

[Proven]

Oh, someone just reminded me that it's Honor, not Valor, that the new trait is going into. Honor is the Vitality line. That means with max Honor + new trait you'll boost your health to ~17k base, which is just 1k under the high (Warrior/Necromancer) base health.

 

[Ashodin]

Oh, someone just reminded me that it's Honor, not Valor, that the new trait is going into. Honor is the Vitality line. That means with max Honor + new trait you'll boost your health to ~17k base, which is just 1k under the high (Warrior/Necromancer) base health.

Can't wait to see the other four grandmasters for Guardian.

 

[Anno]

Really looking forward to Force of Will. I'll go right back to me 5/0/30/30/5 2H triple med and actually have a decent GM now. YOLO JI/Ring combos into a pack of enemies just became a bit more survivable.

 

[LiveSpartan235]

http://gw2.kongzhong.com/news/20140321/1325.html

The price has been announced for GW2 China it will be 88 Yuan or about 14 dollars and starting today the beta will be open to the public until the 24th of March then the game will go on pre-sale on April 2nd.

 

[Moondrop]

I'm so ambivalent about this feature patch.

On the one hand, I'm thrilled that they're adding new traits; new abilities are the best way to shake up the meta of PvP and WvW.

On the other, this is also the abandonment of another tenet of the original design philosophy on which the game was sold. Horizontal progression was already sacrificed, and now we're losing instantaneous competitiveness in PvP.

I don't care that they changed their minds; I fear the direction to which they've seemingly changed.

 

[LumpOfCole]

My latest video masterpiece. It took 10,000 hours to film and postproduce.

http://youtu.be/dWNv7H1SxQQ

 

[Retro]

Ahahaha, the pimp walk.

 

[thoseAREmySHOES]

I saw the news about the trait changes on Reddit, I think that's enticed me enough to reinstall the game.

It's not gonna help the progress I was making on my backlog, though!

 

[Retro]

I saw the news about the trait changes on Reddit, I think that's enticed me enough to reinstall the game.

It's not gonna help the progress I was making on my backlog, though!

Wait until April 15th, when the changes will go live... or come back now and get re-acquainted with all the stuff they've added since you last played.

 

[thoseAREmySHOES]

Wait until April 15th, when the changes will go live... or come back now and get re-acquainted with all the stuff they've added since you last played.

Yeah, I definitely want to get reacquainted a bit before it goes live. I've got a lot to catch up on.

 

[Mxrz]

Did my first Arah Explorable. Not too bad. Five of us with no real clue blundered through it. Hardest part was the long ass run through the oozes. Can't say I'm crazy about a dungeon designed to make you run past junk. Makes it a bit difficult for the squishy folks.

 

[Jira]

When I woke up this morning, I did not expect to see a blog post. Nor did I expect to see 12 going up over the next week or so. The Trait system change and new Traits alone are stuff other devs would only put in either a pre-expansion update or the expansion itself. It's mind blowing to me that this is but one of at least TWELVE system changes coming in a single update. Now all they need to do is open up Maguuma in Season 2 and people can shut up about ANet not being able to do expansion stuff with the LS.

 

[Korten]

When I woke up this morning, I did not expect to see a blog post. Nor did I expect to see 12 going up over the next week or so. The Trait system change and new Traits alone are stuff other devs would only put in either a pre-expansion update or the expansion itself. It's mind blowing to me that this is but one of at least TWELVE system changes coming in a single update. Now all they need to do is open up Maguuma in Season 2 and people can shut up about ANet not being able to do expansion stuff with the LS.

Are we sure they're revamping 12 things? The last 3 seem like the same thing...

Offtopic: I'm at 300+ posts! I can make threads... Dun dun dunn... I got nothing.

 

[Jira]

Are we sure they're revamping 12 things? The last 3 seem like the same thing...

Offtopic: I'm at 300+ posts! I can make threads... Dun dun dunn... I got nothing.

You can't assume that the last three are only a single system. In fact, I think it's three systems or changes at a minimum.

 

[Grayman]

Mesmers getting to lock down skills longer is cool. I am not sure if GW2 telegraphs skills well enough to use it as organized as GW1 which had a bar showing cast times.

Having PVP unlocks is crap. Was bad in GW1 and is bad here.

 

[Jira]

Mesmers getting to lock down skills longer is cool. I am not sure if GW2 telegraphs skills well enough to use it as organized as GW1 which had a bar showing cast times.

Having PVP unlocks is crap. Was bad in GW1 and is bad here.

I don't really foresee the amount of time/effort being all that high, but we'll see. I really think this change along with unlocking of new skills and Traits in sPvP to be a change to appease the BUT ANET WHERE'S MAH PROGRESHUNS IN PVP?!?

 

[Ashodin]

omg can't wait to wake up tomorrow and there'll be another blog post! TWO EVEN

 

[Proven]

Rumors abound that tomorrow's Ready Up will be most important to watch.

 

[Ashodin]

Rumors abound that tomorrow's Ready Up will be most important to watch.

hgnggggggggggg

 

[Proven]

If I understand correctly we're getting information on all 40 of the new traits tomorrow.

 

[Ashodin]

If I understand correctly we're getting information on all 40 of the new traits tomorrow.

hooray!

 

[Kos Luftar]

I'm awake and it's March 21st yet the new blog posts are not up. Damn ANET is lazy!

 

[Cels]

I haven't played the game in a while, not since August's queen's jubilee update actually, but I do see some news about the game once in a while. I haven't posted in GW2 community in just about as long.

I've seen the hype grow over the upcoming feature patch, but this tidbit caught my eye:

From July's Looking Ahead blog:

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well. As these additional skills and traits are added, they’ll be automatically unlocked and available for competitive PvP just like all existing skills/traits work today.

(I was still around and playing the game when this blog went up)

Yesterday, on the forums:

New traits that are added to the game will need to be unlocked though, similar to how new skills work.

As someone who bashed on GW2's poor sPvP, one of the few improvements it had over GW1 PvP was the fact that every armor/skill/trait/rune was unlocked for use the moment you made a character. In GW1 you had to unlock pretty much everything.
I also wasn't around for when new skills got added...sPvP players have to unlock skills now?

 

[Anno]

Edit: NM misread

C'mon blogs!

 

[Ceres]

I haven't played the game in a while, not since August's queen's jubilee update actually, but I do see some news about the game once in a while. I haven't posted in GW2 community in just about as long.

I've seen the hype grow over the upcoming feature patch, but this tidbit caught my eye:

From July's Looking Ahead blog: (I was still around and playing the game when this blog went up)

Yesterday, on the forums:

As someone who bashed on GW2's poor sPvP, one of the few improvements it had over GW1 PvP was the fact that every armor/skill/trait/rune was unlocked for use the moment you made a character. In GW1 you had to unlock pretty much everything.
I also wasn't around for when new skills got added...sPvP players have to unlock skills now?

I'm assuming because he's referencing it being similar to how you unlock skills, this is PvE/WvW only. PvP will already be unlocked just like skills are.

Edit: NM, I didn't see the original post.So he meant the new healing skills each profession got? Does anyone even use those? lol. If its going to be unlocked by using skill points (or doing a mission) but players don't gain XP (in order to level and get skill points) in PvP that is kind of BS for someone who doesn't PvE.

 

[Lunar15]

Wait, what in the post implied that those skills would need to be unlocked in PvP?

 

[Hawkian]

Wait, what in the post implied that those skills would need to be unlocked in PvP?

It was a post on the forums. The blog post doesn't say anything about it. *shrug* I was thinking back on how GW1 all handled this and I don't really know how to feel anymore. It seems very weird just locking one trait per line even for new characters, but in terms of process it's barely anything long term. It's a little easy to forget GW1 allowed you to straight up unlock skills for cash. I don't know. I'm reverting from "terrible idea" to "meh" on account of scope. Maybe it will make more sense to me in practice but I would prefer they just change their minds (or the forum post winds up being wrong).

 

[Lunar15]

I cannot fathom why they'd make you have to unlock it for PvP. That makes literally no sense to me.

I don't see it happening.

 

[Kos Luftar]

It seems like they are trying to make the game so that people play all parts of the game buy making the way you acquire things in PvE, WvW and PvP all the same and I feel they want PvE players to play pvp and pvp to play PvE but by doing this the hardcore PvP only players who would rather die then in PvE are really pissed because they have to unlock these traits.

You can get gold now in pvp so I bet that is going to be how you unlock the skills and if you play pvp a lot you can probably unlock them easy. Hope they say exactly how you acquire these points on the stream today.

Maybe this has something to do with the fact that they want your PvE character to not change when they go into pvp. You keep your armor look so maybe this means you keep your unlocks and builds as well. I don't know about this it's just speculation.

I am trying to understand what the reasoning behind it is but can't come up with anything. Hopefully the stream will clear things up. If it doesn't they will surely hear from everyone that this is not what they want as "pvp progression" and then they will change to be unlocked automatically.

 

[Retro]

More on the PVP:

As Roy mentioned in another thread, all the current traits will remain unlocked in PvP, even for new players. It is only new traits that need to be unlocked, and you will not have to PvE to obtain them.

Also, this system is designed for horizontal progression. Unlocking traits, or what have you, won’t (at least shouldn’t, barring any balance issues) make you more powerful, they simply give you a wider range of builds and allow you to better tune your character to your play style. Many, many successful games ease players into options, and, in my opinion, trait unlocking isn’t any different.

I understand some of you are worried that we’re just adding stuff and ignoring existing problems. I can assure you, as I sit within earshot of the Skills and Combat team, that they are very aware of this and have no plans to ignore existing issues.

Then why make a distinction?​

If it were only an additional trait, you’d more of a have a point, but we’re introducing this system with the future in mind. I can’t speak for the Skills and Combat teams long turn plans, but I know I would be disappointed if we stopped with just these new traits.

PvP gives us a tiny bit of coin. No matter how much you play pvp, you won’t be able to make as much as your average pveer. What’s the point in implementing “horizontal” progression when pveers can unlock the new traits multiple times faster than pvpers?
​

That is a valid concern, one worthy of its own thread. I should mention that this is only part of the rewards we have planned. We should have a blog post about that coming out soon™, but I’m not sure where it is in the schedule.

All from this thread: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/pvp/Please-stop-with-the-sPvP-unlocks It's the official forums though, so expect the usual whining, bitching, complaining, ragequitting, mudslinging, entitlement and out-of-context quotes being used to make someone look bad / lazy / inept / evil / stupid.

 

[Korten]

I'm awake and it's March 21st yet the new blog posts are not up. Damn ANET is lazy!

What time did they come out yesterday? I woke up at around 12:00 PM to go to class and the trait blog post was out by then...

 

[Retro]

What time did they come out yesterday? I woke up at around 12:00 PM to go to class and the trait blog post was out by then...

Coffeeman posted them ~9am Eastern. It's now 10am.

They may hold them back until the Ready Up livestream at 3pm Eastern, they may not. We'll have to see.

 

[Trey]

It was a post on the forums. The blog post doesn't say anything about it. *shrug* I was thinking back on how GW1 all handled this and I don't really know how to feel anymore. It seems very weird just locking one trait per line even for new characters, but in terms of process it's barely anything long term. It's a little easy to forget GW1 allowed you to straight up unlock skills for cash. I don't know. I'm reverting from "terrible idea" to "meh" on account of scope. Maybe it will make more sense to me in practice but I would prefer they just change their minds (or the forum post winds up being wrong).

I totally forgot you had to hit up Balthazar to unlock skills in PvP if you didn't want to get them through PvE.

 

[Proven]

I also wasn't around for when new skills got added...sPvP players have to unlock skills now?

They're new healing skills that cost 25 skill points. Each class got one. Currently when you rank up in PvP you get a bunch of skill point scrolls so you can still unlock them after a couple ranks. For anyone who is so very high a rank that depending on ranking up is impractical, they should have the glory already to buy level up scrolls from a vendor.

As for locking skills in PvP, the primary reasoning I can see is: "PvP is no longer a completely separated mode." If horizontal progression makes sense for one part of the game they're going to apply it to all parts. There will be unique rewards for different parts of the game but skills and traits are universal.

 

[Trey]

They're new healing skills that cost 25 skill points. Each class got one. Currently when you rank up in PvP you get a bunch of skill point scrolls so you can still unlock them after a couple ranks. For anyone who is so very high a rank that depending on ranking up is impractical, they should have the glory already to buy level up scrolls from a vendor.

As for locking skills in PvP, the primary reasoning I can see is: "PvP is no longer a completely separated mode." If horizontal progression makes sense for one part of the game they're going to apply it to all parts. There will be unique rewards for different parts of the game but skills and traits are universal.

Yeah, no, Anet. PvP may not be separate in the sense that skills, traits, and stats are shared between the two modes, but PvP should not have to "get" things. Far easier to just leave everything unlocked in PvP in particular.

Acteryx, Arken, etc, I'm with you guys on this one.

 

[Hawkian]

I totally forgot you had to hit up Balthazar to unlock skills in PvP if you didn't want to get them through PvE.

Or your wallet, yeah. I forgot about it over the years too

I remember reacting negatively back then, especially at the direct monetization (my instinct was to call it Pay 2 Win), but ultimately I made peace with this. They were right back then that it didn't make you more powerful and merely gave you more options, and I can see it holding true now. You had the options of time or money back then. I guess now it will be time in PvP, time in PvE, or money indirectly, assuming you buy unlocks with gold. It's the kind of thing that would make a lot more sense it it were a few new unlocks to progress through rather than just a single one per trait line. Maybe it will make more sense years removed. As an individual short-term addition it's just a minor annoyance to existing players and confusing to new players.

As for locking skills in PvP, the primary reasoning I can see is: "PvP is no longer a completely separated mode." If horizontal progression makes sense for one part of the game they're going to apply it to all parts. There will be unique rewards for different parts of the game but skills and traits are universal.

The problem is the game doesn't function anywhere close to that yet, so it would definitely be an overhaul. You currently have skills unlocked on a character in PvP even if you haven't even hit that tier of skills in PvE.

 

[NobleXenon]

I remember the skill unlock packs in GW1. I remember questioning it being P2W in not only PvP, but getting the Skill Hunting Titles in PvE and for making your Heroes OP early in the game.

 

[shysaursoft]

GW1, for all it's buy-once nature, was super-heavily monetized. But I think many people were a bit more forgiving of it back in the day because GW1 was such a new paradigm, and this was before the big F2P movement. Pardon the prices being in Euro, I was in ZA at the time of playing GW. It's actually made it a bit of an issue now, as I can't buy anything for GW1 anymore since I moved to the US - it doesn't accept US cards or paypal, for reasons.

I'd forgotten though that they sold a PVP only "client", as it were. Wonder if GW2 will get that too.

Here's a blast from the past for y'all:

Sometimes I think half of these wouldn't fly today with the GW2 crowd, who are already upset at the Gem Store, even though you don't need to spend real money to get the stuff.

 

[Hawkian]

I remember the skill unlock packs in GW1. I remember questioning it being P2W in not only PvP, but getting the Skill Hunting Titles in PvE and for making your Heroes OP early in the game.

welllllll the skill unlock packs existed before there was a such thing as Heroes <3

^: I think you're right on the money that there are some things that were par for the course back then that wouldn't be tolerated at all now. Especially considering the rune, sigil, and insignia unlocks as something you'd have to unlock at all let alone just be able to buy for $10.

Mercenary Heroes sure were badass though.