shysaursoft
Member
Fair enough. The real problem they face though is deciding which market to write for. GW2 right now is played by so many different people who expect different things, I'm not sure which way they'll decide to take it.
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Fair enough. The real problem they face though is deciding which market to write for. GW2 right now is played by so many different people who expect different things, I'm not sure which way they'll decide to take it.
Really nice idea Hawk, looking forward to find out how the Flame Temple Tomb is (I had seen it some weeks ago and thought it looked pretty neat).
Me too! On my thief, I can solo the Champ Abomination with enough time and patience
Feels awesome.You can't make everyone happy, but I think compelling writing is universal. I think people signed up for this expecting dragons, so ending on a dragon is probably going to be alright with most people.
The challenge is letting everyone know you're heading towards a dragon but still making things interesting on the way there. With long-term storytelling it's always a balance. I'm a huge fan of One Piece: I've known for over 15 years that Luffy's gonna be the goddamn Pirate King, but damn if they don't make things interesting along the way. Plus there's all the how's that are fun to speculate.
My idea of good storytelling is letting the audience knows the why's and the where's, but obscuring the how's. In Season 1 they just obscured everything. We didn't know how, what, where, why, or who.
shysaursoft
Member
Funny you should mention One Piece, since it's the prime example of how a plot can go bad. I enjoyed it for a while, but then it dragged on, and on, and you could tell the writer just didn't know what to do next or how to escalate. By contrast, I've been reading Hajime No Ippo for over 20 years. It was always clear he was going to become World Champion, and they're only putting him on the world stage /now/ - but there's been barely any filler, the progression has made sense. One Piece (and in the same vein, Naruto, Fairy Tale, Belch, etc) - all suffer from a lack of compelling writing now, where they had it at the start.
I guess GW2 can only go up from here, really. While Season 1 may not have been compelling to most, since it was an experiment and all, I just hope they don't try to go for the same "quality" of writing that most Western games do, like Skyrim or etc. Because then we're all doomed. Western writers have such a hard time with "epic fantasy" (and sci fi) but they keep trying. I guess that counts for something.
I think that's perhaps the problem - many western games keep trying to appeal to that 'we want epic dragonz' crowd, and it just ends up being so hokey and lame. Either bad LOTR fanfic, or just outright campy 'look at us we're high fantasy by renaming magic to some other made-up word'.
Alright guys, I made a podcast with one of my friends about the recent proposed changes.
http://www.twitch.tv/bigheart_gamer/c/3935302
It's quite long(2 1/2 hours) but luckily most of it you can just listen to while playing. However, I used props to describe each profession throughout the cast. Some of them may be appropriate...you decide.
I don't agree with all the conclusions you two come to, but I'm also the weirder one when it comes to balance discussions. Still, to take one example, you guys don't consider the bigger picture with something like Water Trident getting regeneration, which gives it a player controlled synergy with Cleansing Water. I'm still listening though so I might post some more thoughts later.
I basically hate all Shounen anime, but for some reason I still find One Piece really really compelling, and I think it's because he wrote his ending at the start. It was clear at some point that none of the other writers knew where to go. Oda can get sloggy, but he always pays off in the end. The reason I brought up One Piece is because it succeeds where most shounen fail. Different strokes for different folks, though. (That being said, I also enjoy Hajime no Ippo)
Also, if you fell out of one piece at some point, it's likely you missed some great stuff. While his stuff has gone weird directions, I've always felt like he knows where he's going.
As far as Dragons go, I agree that dragons are, in general, boring and overdone at this point. That being said, they're in the goddamn logo of this game. I really really love the world of GW2, and I agree with you that they've managed to avoid a lot of stupid fantasy tropes at this point. But we were told that they were the greatest threat to Tyria, and we can see the havoc they've wrought, so it's definitely something I'd like to address.
The way around campy fantasy tropes comes in the "how's". Sure, the dragon is the end goal, but the world we traverse and the ways in which we combat his forces can be wild and unpredictable. Although, after season 1 and a lot of the personal story, I'm not sure they're up to the task. I liked the Pact though, it never felt very LOTR-y or anything, very scientific and modern feeling. Maybe they can recreate that here.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go cope with someone having such a radically different opinion about One Piece as me. I just never thought I'd hear someone say that the writer didn't know where he was going!
Also, if you fell out of one piece at some point, it's likely you missed some great stuff. While his stuff has gone weird directions, I've always felt like he knows where he's going.
As far as Dragons go, I agree that dragons are, in general, boring and overdone at this point. That being said, they're in the goddamn logo of this game. I really really love the world of GW2, and I agree with you that they've managed to avoid a lot of stupid fantasy tropes at this point. But we were told that they were the greatest threat to Tyria, and we can see the havoc they've wrought, so it's definitely something I'd like to address.
The way around campy fantasy tropes comes in the "how's". Sure, the dragon is the end goal, but the world we traverse and the ways in which we combat his forces can be wild and unpredictable. Although, after season 1 and a lot of the personal story, I'm not sure they're up to the task. I liked the Pact though, it never felt very LOTR-y or anything, very scientific and modern feeling. Maybe they can recreate that here.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go cope with someone having such a radically different opinion about One Piece as me. I just never thought I'd hear someone say that the writer didn't know where he was going!
shysaursoft
Member
Let me rephrase rather. I'm sure Eiichiro Oda has a general framework mapped out, as most writers do, with key points to reach and an ending in mind. It's the *getting* to these key points that, at times, gets so ridiculously drawn out I half expect it to get drawn like the Gon meets Dad bit in Hunter x Hunter. But that's just me.
Right now I'm reading Nanatsu no Taizai because the artstyle looks more Beligan than Japanese, and it's a pretty decent shonen so far.
I read a lot of manga. >..>
As for GW2 - I guess I was lucky in that I never went in expecting much. GW1's plot was utterly forgettable and could be safely ignored throughout the entire set of chapters, so when it came to GW2, I wasn't really in it for the story. That the Personal Stories were, for the most part, not half bad helped (Asura infinity ball one is my favorite so far). Living Story started weak, but ended up in a good place I felt, and I can actually remember the character's names, unlike pretty much everyone in WoW aside from hot Tauren chief action, who got killed off anyway, go figure.
The day the main post went up last week about the feature pack and upcoming blog posts, it said the 25th to me. It even stood out, since I thought the Monday was the 24th, so I double checked it, and sure enough they were skipping the Monday from the get-go. Yet, people claim it said the 24th, but honestly, I never once saw that date mentioned anywhere. Weird.
Right now I'm reading Nanatsu no Taizai because the artstyle looks more Beligan than Japanese, and it's a pretty decent shonen so far.
I read a lot of manga. >..>
As for GW2 - I guess I was lucky in that I never went in expecting much. GW1's plot was utterly forgettable and could be safely ignored throughout the entire set of chapters, so when it came to GW2, I wasn't really in it for the story. That the Personal Stories were, for the most part, not half bad helped (Asura infinity ball one is my favorite so far). Living Story started weak, but ended up in a good place I felt, and I can actually remember the character's names, unlike pretty much everyone in WoW aside from hot Tauren chief action, who got killed off anyway, go figure.
The day the main post went up last week about the feature pack and upcoming blog posts, it said the 25th to me. It even stood out, since I thought the Monday was the 24th, so I double checked it, and sure enough they were skipping the Monday from the get-go. Yet, people claim it said the 24th, but honestly, I never once saw that date mentioned anywhere. Weird.
I think I get upset about the writing because I actually really really really really love the world in GW2. It's probably the main reason I got the game, and I didn't even really play GW1.
Like you, I have grown tired of horribly bad fantasy cliches. Like zombies, these instantly "marketable" tropes have just become total turn-offs for me Knights, Dragons, Heroes of Destiny.... you know the deal. Tyria is really interesting because only one race really fits the "fantasy trope", but even they've been pushed back to near-irrelevance. Everything always just seems to be one degree to the side of an established tropes. Asura are technically "dwarves", but they have such a science slant that it's almost sci fi. Charr are your "orcs", but their war-machine asthetic mixed with their general distaste for magic is really really satisfying. Sylvari are the "elves", but quite frankly I haven't seen anything like the Sylvari before. Norn and Humans are the most generic, however even they have tons of twists that make them feel fresh. Nothing here feels like Skyrim, which was just one huge genero-fest. They kind of forgot that the reason people loved Morrowind was because of how alien it felt.
That being said, they've done some interesting stuff with the dragons that have made them feel less tropey. Namely in that they've made them into something more like a natural disaster than a mean lizard. This is where they can pull off Modremoth: In what kind of havoc he wreaks through the world. Already he's been revealed to be a manipulator, working through the Dream itself, and I think there's a bunch of fun twists to have there. But with the spores and all that out there, there's enough that I think can focus the story on being pretty different than your standard "let's go kill the dragon!" romp. That, at least, I do have faith in Anet for. Even Scarlet's story, despite not being all that engaging, never felt like a fantasy trope. Heck, it kind of felt like a supervillian arc. (Although, I'm not a huge fan of superhero tropes either, so maybe that's why I didn't like it.)
I agree with you that the story can only go up from here. But ultimately, going back to a Dragon is part of the reason.
(Side note: I've been eyeing Seven Deadly Sins and keeping up with it, although it really seems like it's going nowhere. I have a difficult time keeping up with where it's going. I like the art though. Also, You can't possibly tell me Kubo ever had an idea of where he was going with Bleach. Guy had no ideas outside of his first arc, and then just infinitely repeated that arc. Honestly, I'd agree with you on just about every shounen out there, but I just can't see it for one piece. It slogs, but pays off, unlike a lot of stuff. I thought the first "half" ended eloquently, and I can already see where he's going in the second half. I think Oda always has a plan, his problems stem from getting distracted by the art he wants to draw. He just keeps thinking of characters and Islands he'd love to show off. With other manga, it just feels like they don't know where to go, period.)
Like you, I have grown tired of horribly bad fantasy cliches. Like zombies, these instantly "marketable" tropes have just become total turn-offs for me Knights, Dragons, Heroes of Destiny.... you know the deal. Tyria is really interesting because only one race really fits the "fantasy trope", but even they've been pushed back to near-irrelevance. Everything always just seems to be one degree to the side of an established tropes. Asura are technically "dwarves", but they have such a science slant that it's almost sci fi. Charr are your "orcs", but their war-machine asthetic mixed with their general distaste for magic is really really satisfying. Sylvari are the "elves", but quite frankly I haven't seen anything like the Sylvari before. Norn and Humans are the most generic, however even they have tons of twists that make them feel fresh. Nothing here feels like Skyrim, which was just one huge genero-fest. They kind of forgot that the reason people loved Morrowind was because of how alien it felt.
That being said, they've done some interesting stuff with the dragons that have made them feel less tropey. Namely in that they've made them into something more like a natural disaster than a mean lizard. This is where they can pull off Modremoth: In what kind of havoc he wreaks through the world. Already he's been revealed to be a manipulator, working through the Dream itself, and I think there's a bunch of fun twists to have there. But with the spores and all that out there, there's enough that I think can focus the story on being pretty different than your standard "let's go kill the dragon!" romp. That, at least, I do have faith in Anet for. Even Scarlet's story, despite not being all that engaging, never felt like a fantasy trope. Heck, it kind of felt like a supervillian arc. (Although, I'm not a huge fan of superhero tropes either, so maybe that's why I didn't like it.)
I agree with you that the story can only go up from here. But ultimately, going back to a Dragon is part of the reason.
(Side note: I've been eyeing Seven Deadly Sins and keeping up with it, although it really seems like it's going nowhere. I have a difficult time keeping up with where it's going. I like the art though. Also, You can't possibly tell me Kubo ever had an idea of where he was going with Bleach. Guy had no ideas outside of his first arc, and then just infinitely repeated that arc. Honestly, I'd agree with you on just about every shounen out there, but I just can't see it for one piece. It slogs, but pays off, unlike a lot of stuff. I thought the first "half" ended eloquently, and I can already see where he's going in the second half. I think Oda always has a plan, his problems stem from getting distracted by the art he wants to draw. He just keeps thinking of characters and Islands he'd love to show off. With other manga, it just feels like they don't know where to go, period.)
I saw 24th but I saw it when the post went up. It was the 24th, even on Dulfy, the dates is still at 24th because they didn't update it to the 25th.
Both the Asura and Dwarves are offended by this
shysaursoft
Member
Pity that they couldn't have Scarlet off Jenna during the Queen's Speech. I think that would have been a good oompf to the start of Scarlet's arc.
Good writing often means 'kill your babies', as Vonnegut said I think. The problem with GW2's universe is it's a bit too much someone's baby. Destroying Lion's Arch was great, but they basically killed off only redshirts, characters nobody really cared about. Except for Ogden's Hammer What Savings guy, I like him - but he survived anyway.
I agree though GW2 is seeded with the start of much plot greatness... I just don't know if they even *can* capitalize on all the foundation work that exists in the game. In some respects, I wonder if the production values don't work against them - having to record voice for all major characters and cutscenes all the time must be a shlep, which is why most games leave it for yearly expansion packs. Not that I want GW2 to become another 'giant block of text to read' MMO, gods no. But they're a slave to the production values they've set up, and that must be really limiting.
I stopped reading when they got to some island where there was a guy experimenting on children, keeping them addicted to some kind of candy? Villain had melty gas powers or something. It's been a while, so I don't quite recall (oddly, I can recall most of the plot before that). I should go back to it and see what I missed.
Good writing often means 'kill your babies', as Vonnegut said I think. The problem with GW2's universe is it's a bit too much someone's baby. Destroying Lion's Arch was great, but they basically killed off only redshirts, characters nobody really cared about. Except for Ogden's Hammer What Savings guy, I like him - but he survived anyway.
I agree though GW2 is seeded with the start of much plot greatness... I just don't know if they even *can* capitalize on all the foundation work that exists in the game. In some respects, I wonder if the production values don't work against them - having to record voice for all major characters and cutscenes all the time must be a shlep, which is why most games leave it for yearly expansion packs. Not that I want GW2 to become another 'giant block of text to read' MMO, gods no. But they're a slave to the production values they've set up, and that must be really limiting.
I stopped reading when they got to some island where there was a guy experimenting on children, keeping them addicted to some kind of candy? Villain had melty gas powers or something. It's been a while, so I don't quite recall (oddly, I can recall most of the plot before that). I should go back to it and see what I missed.
I thought we went over pretty well how strong cleansing water would become with on-demand regeneration. Especially from Water Trident?\
Edit: Also, I appreciate your input. While the podcast was meant to just give our input, I love hearing others.
LiveSpartan235
Neo Member
Full interview with Ramon Domke translated
https://nerdybookahs.wordpress.com/2014/03/24/foostival-2014-interview-with-ramon/
https://nerdybookahs.wordpress.com/2014/03/24/foostival-2014-interview-with-ramon/
Actually, I disagree: I don't think you need to kill characters off to cause drama. That, and I don't think they have any babies to kill yet. A lot of writers think that killing off characters is the only way to set stakes, but I don't agree. In fact, killing off beloved characters is... kind of a overdone cliche at this point.
That being said, I do agree in that the stakes were not properly set at the start of the arc, and yeah, killing Jennah would have helped to set those. Problem is, we just finished Scarlet's arc with something pretty destructive, so how you set the stakes for Mordremoth coming right off the heels of Lion's Arch's destruction?
I think this comes through the toxic spores Scarlet released. They can start spreading Mordremoth's thorny vines through Tyria, which provides the much needed visual indication that something is happening and we need to stop it. Plus, as I said before, Dragons are basically raw forces of nature, so there's a plethora of things they could whip out. Heck, does anyone even care about Brisban? Let vines tangle that place up! Mordremoth needs his own "brand", if you will.
That being said, I do agree in that the stakes were not properly set at the start of the arc, and yeah, killing Jennah would have helped to set those. Problem is, we just finished Scarlet's arc with something pretty destructive, so how you set the stakes for Mordremoth coming right off the heels of Lion's Arch's destruction?
I think this comes through the toxic spores Scarlet released. They can start spreading Mordremoth's thorny vines through Tyria, which provides the much needed visual indication that something is happening and we need to stop it. Plus, as I said before, Dragons are basically raw forces of nature, so there's a plethora of things they could whip out. Heck, does anyone even care about Brisban? Let vines tangle that place up! Mordremoth needs his own "brand", if you will.
Jest Chillin
Member
Uh.. Dwarves are Dwarves in Guild Wars. Asura aren't an approximation.
Lies and slander. Asura are most definitely, absolutely, probably born from Dwarves some time ago.
Rofl, I totally forgot about the Dwarves in Guild Wars.
But I think asura are essentially filling that "tiny, sub-terranian dwelling genius/crafty race" role. They're just way more interesting than generic fantasy dwarves.
(Manga side note: Punk Hazard (the arc you stopped at) definitely was weird and basically served only to set up the subsequent arc, which has been pretty great so far. I agree in that the story was strongest in the very beginning, but I've stayed pretty hooked just due to how well he concludes arcs. The current arc is moving everything forward really quickly though, so if that's what you're looking for, you're in for a treat. The trick with One Piece is sometimes just to take a break and let him get through an arc before reading it. Somewhere along the line, chapters got shorter (literally less pages) so as a result it feels like less is happening per-chapter and that arcs are way longer. In reality, arcs are still about the same, they just feel dragged out due to Jump being Jump.)
On the topic of One Piece, unlike most of the other popular Shounen the problem I find with One Piece is the fact that the author keeps spinning the arcs larger and larger to be more epic. He uses the same dramatic arc each time and then just adds more pieces and more characters while keeping a huge and consistent world. But getting the individual pacing of all the small parts right is something he's failing on and what makes everything feel like it's dragging on too long at times. The fact that each crew member and guest member gets X amount of time in the spotlight per arc adds to this. Still, overall plot-wise, One Piece is one of the best to ever grace Jump.
Maybe I missed it.
Maybe I missed it.
With you on this. It is starting to feel a little too Saturday Morning Everybody A-Okay! Cartoonish. This stands out all the more when compared to GW, where all three of the main games had major characters die. These were characters that you knew for more than just an instance or two. In turn, the world had some weight to it.
That said, I'm excited about the future of the game. I have faith I'll get something I'll like more (GW1 flavored!) in the future.
Actually you know what, we just emphasized that cleansing water would be incredibly power in general. Not sure we mentioned it in conjunction with Water Trident.
This is basically how I feel on it. Point was, I keep going back to it because the compelling overall plot, helped in part due to the clear goals and the fact that its written around a specific ending. GW2 needs to work on this.
Yeah, just checked. Apparently I went right past the part where you talked about how Trident would work with it. It's just not valued at all. That's fair.
Jest Chillin
Member
Asura are small and the originated from underground but that's it. They seem perfectly comfortable above ground now and in fact they live in the only floating city in the known world. They both theorize advanced science and magic but also build it. They're about as original as a race can be in a genre where just about any history can be attributed to influence from another race in another game.
Also, on the topic of no major characters dying... how quickly people forget Tybalt.
Also, on the topic of no major characters dying... how quickly people forget Tybalt.
I will say that I still prefer One Piece to a lot of the other shounen series out there because he does each main and supporting character the proper amount of time. While the pacing problem is its weakness, caring about each and every character and what their place in the world will be is its strength.
That was kind of my point? I was saying how Anet kinda has the bases there, but then twists them so much that they're entirely original.
Maybe I worded it badly.
Never met 'em. But yeah, the mentors. Trouble is you only knew them for a brief bit, and their deaths were mostly a one and done thing.
I don't want everyone to DIE DIE DIE, or anything. But it does feel like there's some heavy writer/plot armor stacking up.
Jest Chillin
Member
Ah, I thought you were saying that it was a more interesting take on those archetypes, while I was saying I don't really feel like they're really archetypes.
Awe, well then you missed out. Tybalt is awesome!
shysaursoft
Member
See, good example here: everyone remembers Tybalt, because he was awesome, and then he was Whedon'ed away just as we got to love him even more. ;..;
But Logan, Jenna, Rytlock, Traherenenrerere? They live. ;..;
Here's the new thread I made from our podcast. Please post your opinions/thoughts and suggestions so we can do better next time.
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/for...-about-the-proposed-changes/first#post3805931
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/for...-about-the-proposed-changes/first#post3805931
Pretty much this.
Actually, I think Anet takes a lot from Magic The Gathering. They've talked about being really good friends with WotC and the MTG team, and it's funny because you can see some similarities in how they've set up the world and races. Especially in how they build lore.
They also focus on that "just left of fantasy" approach that Magic really focuses on. Different planes of reality, tons of technology, and a clash of a lot of different genres.
They also focus on that "just left of fantasy" approach that Magic really focuses on. Different planes of reality, tons of technology, and a clash of a lot of different genres.
well gnomes and goblins are kind of factionally opposed critters of similar predilection wouldn't you say?
You wouldn't have happened to do HOTW1 recently, eh?
Yup. Every pug run, its like I have to watch the other zerk warriors go through the 5 stages of grief when they realize we need to kill the wolves, and cannot cheese the troll.
I really don't mind bad pugs. It is when they're bad and start telling others what to do that it brings out my own inner troll.
Alright, here's the trait revamp I've been poking at.
So, even before launch Ive disliked the trait system. You can read all about that here, and I will not waste time going over the same ground. Its not a strong dislike, but I definitely think its a slightly dated approach, and more importantly one that doesnt mesh well with the rest of the game. I can think of no greater example than the amount of impact weapons have on the game; defining half of a players abilities, giving them a way to quickly change their professions toolkit on the fly, etc. and yet there are talents that paint you into using a static weapon pool to be effective.
Ive been talking for a while about what I would do to replace or improve traits, and its mostly been a few nebulous ideas floating in the back of my head whenever the conversation would come up. I decided it was time to gather those idea together into something a little more solid. The goal of this concept is to two-fold: reduce the amount of passive traits that allow theorycrafters to easily calculate and disseminate optimal builds, and make the system easy enough for players to understand that they dont need theorycrafters to tell them whats optimal.
The first step is the most important; all passive traits are removed. Even if this were the only change made to the entire system, it would still be a vast improvement over what exists today. So, what constitutes a passive trait? Any trait where the player automatically receives some kind of benefit without having to put much thought into it. A quick list;
With all of those changes, what would the trait system look like?
Expertise Traits
Right at the top are 8 hexagonal slots for Expertise Traits. These are roughly the equivalent to the traits you have now, with one slot unlocked every 10 levels, for a total of 8 slots at level 80.
Because trait tiers and lines have been removed, colors are used to group traits into thematic categories: red for damage, yellow for control and blue for support. The use of one category over another makes no difference nor does the order in which traits are slotted; theyre just for easier organization. If further balance is required, certain traits can be set behind level-specific barriers, but for the sake of this concept that isnt needed.
Reaction Traits
Below that are two triangular slots for Reaction Traits, which are unlocked at levels 30 and 60. Reaction traits are any traits that occur when the player falls, blocks, rallies or is down. Effects that trigger at set thresholds, such as when the players health falls below a certain percentage or they take more than a percentage of their maximum health in a single blow are also considered reaction traits. Traits of this type are often discounted and ignored by players because they only function when the player is failing or underperforming. No player wants to trait for failure. By providing separate, unique slots, players dont have to waste their regular slots on traits built specifically for emergencies.
Movement Traits
Similarly, the circular Movement Trait slotsare built with the same goal in mind. These slots, which unlock at levels 20 and 40, only accept traits related to movement speed, endurance and dodging. Like reaction traits, every player wants to be able to move quicker through the game world as a matter of convenience, but this can often come at the expense of performance. Rather than having players pick between the two, movement traits are built to do both (and should players want to trade in movement speed for more evasion-oriented traits, theyre all located in the same slot type).
Ascended Traits
Ascended Traits are a new trait type unlocked at levels 70 and 80. These traits allow players to make changes to fundamental elements of the game. For example, allowing the Elite skill slot to function as a fourth Utility slot, or granting a Burst skill to warrior banners. Ascended traits could even impact the mechanics of traits themselves, such as an Ascended Trait unlocking a third Movement or Reaction trait slot.
Cosmetic Traits
Finally, Cosmetic Traits are unlocked every 20 levels and allow players to change up the visual effects of their profession with a wide variety of options. For example, Guardian spell effects could be changed from blue to red, or Warrior banners could sport the players guild emblem rather than the current icons. These cosmetic effects can be found in the game world, purchased via the Gem store, or unlocked via achievements. There could even be special seasonal or Living Story-themed traits, such as Deathshrouds usual appearance being replaced with that of Mad King Thorn, earned exclusively during Halloween (Thanks to Xeris for this suggestion).
Weapon Mastery
Weapon Mastery is a new type of trait system entirely. Rather than incorporate specific weapon types into regular traits, each weapon type has its own pool of unique traits. These traits are then set on a per-weapon basis. Weapon Mastery traits are a way to incorporate entirely new skills for weapons, or make changes to the way weapons function. For example, a player can choose to replace his #3 skill on the greatsword, or change which condition a given skill will apply.
The currently equipped weapons are always situated at the top, but players can set the traits for any weapon from this menu in advance. There are traits that are specifically built for mainhand and off-hand use, and these can only be placed in the first and second slot, respectively.
This being a quick mockup, it is very likely weapon Mastery Traits could simply be rolled into the Weapon Skills panel, or given their own page.
So, even before launch Ive disliked the trait system. You can read all about that here, and I will not waste time going over the same ground. Its not a strong dislike, but I definitely think its a slightly dated approach, and more importantly one that doesnt mesh well with the rest of the game. I can think of no greater example than the amount of impact weapons have on the game; defining half of a players abilities, giving them a way to quickly change their professions toolkit on the fly, etc. and yet there are talents that paint you into using a static weapon pool to be effective.
Ive been talking for a while about what I would do to replace or improve traits, and its mostly been a few nebulous ideas floating in the back of my head whenever the conversation would come up. I decided it was time to gather those idea together into something a little more solid. The goal of this concept is to two-fold: reduce the amount of passive traits that allow theorycrafters to easily calculate and disseminate optimal builds, and make the system easy enough for players to understand that they dont need theorycrafters to tell them whats optimal.
The first step is the most important; all passive traits are removed. Even if this were the only change made to the entire system, it would still be a vast improvement over what exists today. So, what constitutes a passive trait? Any trait where the player automatically receives some kind of benefit without having to put much thought into it. A quick list;
- Increased damage / stat when wielding specific weapon types.
- A percentage of x is given as a bonus to y.
- Reduced Recharge for skills.
- x% chance to cause effect.
- Increased duration of Conditions / Boons
With all of those changes, what would the trait system look like?
So the first thing youll notice is that theres a lot of new stuff going on here.
Expertise Traits
Right at the top are 8 hexagonal slots for Expertise Traits. These are roughly the equivalent to the traits you have now, with one slot unlocked every 10 levels, for a total of 8 slots at level 80.
Because trait tiers and lines have been removed, colors are used to group traits into thematic categories: red for damage, yellow for control and blue for support. The use of one category over another makes no difference nor does the order in which traits are slotted; theyre just for easier organization. If further balance is required, certain traits can be set behind level-specific barriers, but for the sake of this concept that isnt needed.
Reaction Traits
Below that are two triangular slots for Reaction Traits, which are unlocked at levels 30 and 60. Reaction traits are any traits that occur when the player falls, blocks, rallies or is down. Effects that trigger at set thresholds, such as when the players health falls below a certain percentage or they take more than a percentage of their maximum health in a single blow are also considered reaction traits. Traits of this type are often discounted and ignored by players because they only function when the player is failing or underperforming. No player wants to trait for failure. By providing separate, unique slots, players dont have to waste their regular slots on traits built specifically for emergencies.
Movement Traits
Similarly, the circular Movement Trait slotsare built with the same goal in mind. These slots, which unlock at levels 20 and 40, only accept traits related to movement speed, endurance and dodging. Like reaction traits, every player wants to be able to move quicker through the game world as a matter of convenience, but this can often come at the expense of performance. Rather than having players pick between the two, movement traits are built to do both (and should players want to trade in movement speed for more evasion-oriented traits, theyre all located in the same slot type).
Ascended Traits
Ascended Traits are a new trait type unlocked at levels 70 and 80. These traits allow players to make changes to fundamental elements of the game. For example, allowing the Elite skill slot to function as a fourth Utility slot, or granting a Burst skill to warrior banners. Ascended traits could even impact the mechanics of traits themselves, such as an Ascended Trait unlocking a third Movement or Reaction trait slot.
Cosmetic Traits
Finally, Cosmetic Traits are unlocked every 20 levels and allow players to change up the visual effects of their profession with a wide variety of options. For example, Guardian spell effects could be changed from blue to red, or Warrior banners could sport the players guild emblem rather than the current icons. These cosmetic effects can be found in the game world, purchased via the Gem store, or unlocked via achievements. There could even be special seasonal or Living Story-themed traits, such as Deathshrouds usual appearance being replaced with that of Mad King Thorn, earned exclusively during Halloween (Thanks to Xeris for this suggestion).
Weapon Mastery
Weapon Mastery is a new type of trait system entirely. Rather than incorporate specific weapon types into regular traits, each weapon type has its own pool of unique traits. These traits are then set on a per-weapon basis. Weapon Mastery traits are a way to incorporate entirely new skills for weapons, or make changes to the way weapons function. For example, a player can choose to replace his #3 skill on the greatsword, or change which condition a given skill will apply.
The currently equipped weapons are always situated at the top, but players can set the traits for any weapon from this menu in advance. There are traits that are specifically built for mainhand and off-hand use, and these can only be placed in the first and second slot, respectively.
This being a quick mockup, it is very likely weapon Mastery Traits could simply be rolled into the Weapon Skills panel, or given their own page.
hockeypuck
Member
Fort Aspenwood taking some pages out of old school Hackgate from back in the day, with their [FEAR] guild using the camera zoom hack to arrow cart the inside of our NW tower in our BL.
Reminds me of when a whole group of them exploited an invulnerability corner just outside that same tower during WvW Season 1 (taken in October):
Reminds me of when a whole group of them exploited an invulnerability corner just outside that same tower during WvW Season 1 (taken in October):
Apparently if you stand there you can't get damaged. Stay classy, FA.
shysaursoft
Member
Irony - the FA guilds keep complaining about the other servers hacking.
Is the bar still filling? There was an issue a long time ago where the game was still downloading but didn't show any progress.
If that's not it, try repairing the game? https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/28148006-Repairing-the-Game-Client
actually , its the update for the installer that is stopping, it hasn't reached the client stage yet, i'll try this one
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